video games

Nienna

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Nela said:
Nienna Eluch said:
Very true. And the "I'm a 3d STS being so what do you expect" schtick is one of the easiest rationalizations for why you just can't do anything other than dream that you are actually accomplishing something. Or so I think.

Sorry, but I'm a 3d STS being with all that it implies and that is not rationalization, it is a fact. Part "so what do you expect" I have never said. Like most of the people here I am struggling to maybe become something better, starting with becoming fully operational 3d, less operational STS being moving to STO part as much as possible considering point on which I am in the cycle of learning. But I don't think that I can just simply by acknowledging that something is not good for me, immediately stop doing it, all of it, all at once, just like that. Can you?
Moreover, it is not known to you wether I believe (dream) that I have actually accomplished anything or not, and my post certainly do not contain information from which you can derive that opinion. So, you are assuming what I think or believe. Or dream.

Whoa! I am sorry that you took this so personally. I, obviously, was not communicating properly. :( Although, you taking it so personally might be something that you would want to look further into as it must have struck a chord somewhere.

The reason I mentioned this was partly because of what you wrote, and this reminded me of many others who have stated things close to this very same way as excuses for why they just cannot let go of their beliefs. People just do not want to let go of things that they really identify with.

The fact is, as you say, we are all 3d STS. But to use this as an excuse as to why we should only let go of our addictions bit by bit is only an excuse to keep doing them. Just like drugs. I had an acquaintance who really thought that since he had quit his drug habits LOTS of times that he really did not have an addiction.

Yes, we all do keep falling back into long time programming and addictions, but to tell ourselves that, well, we are only 3d STS beings anyway, is not the way to progress. It is like reinforcing in our minds why we cannot quit whatever it is we are trying to quit.

I am probably still not being as clear as I would like to be. And if you still feel insulted, you may want to look at why this is. That is, of course, if you really are interested in learning about yourself. ;)
 

anart

A Disturbance in the Force
NormaRegula said:
Sigh. There is no need for sarcasm, Nela. No one has accused you of being a psychopath. As for being narcissistic, a whole lot of human are to some degree due to the way our society has been programmed. The works and words presented by forum members were meant to help you see your false "Is" and begin to understand that dreaming and pursuing dissociative behavior...such as addictive video gaming...may be a major distraction to finding ones true "I."

Perhaps, it would be best if you are sincere in discovering the truth, not only about this world, but also about yourself, to reread the forum rules and understand that one of this network's goals is to point out, or "mirror", someone's sacred cows and/or behavior. It's not done to be mean, it's done to help them cut through the b.s. they tell themselves and others so they can continue to dream and not Do.

When one posts on this forum, their words...and excuses...as to why they must continue to pursue distractions that are detrimental to the Work, being in a destructive, feeding relationship, or clinging to belief systems that have no basis in fact, can be figured out quickly by astute members. (On occasion, there are true communication misunderstandings that usually are resolved.) Sarcasm, pouting, or anger towards members who are just doing their job in pointing out hypocrisy and dishonesty in order to help someone become free of their lies so they can move forward on the path to STO, is a pretty good indication that one's buffers (self lies) to avoid objectivity have taken a direct hit.

No one member here is immune from this action. It's not pleasant. Yet, if you are willing to look in that mirror and confront the lies that you tell yourself and others, there is the possibility of waking up fully.

That pretty much sums it up - Nela is stomping her foot and throwing a bit of a tantrum with the 'black and white thinking' flavored with sarcasm in that statement. The emotional component is a strong clue of how 'sacred a cow' this one is - as is the attacking others - classic 'predator thinking'. Tigersoap suggested the books that I would suggest as far as understanding dissociation and its affects and how to control it. If Nela is sincere, then let it begin - if not, that will become quite clear soon enough.
 

Nienna

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Nela said:
Yes,

I am most probably passive aggressive psychopath and narcissistic.

Thank you for your help.


Having people show you things about yourself is never easy to see. And the way that a person reacts to it is quite telling.

Here, you react with aggression, as if you are being attacked. It is never easy to hear these things about ourselves and some do deflect what is being shown to them onto others by aggressive behavior.

Either you do actually want to learn about yourself and you accept what is being shown you as the truth and try to understand what it is that is being shown by actually looking inside of you and seeing the programs that are running so that you can try to get them under control; or you can lash out, tell those who are expending energy trying to help you awaken and see what needs to be worked on that they don't know what they are talking about and take your toys and go home. It's all up to you.

It's never easy, but then that's why it is called "work."
 

Sleepy

The Force is Strong With This One
OK, being misunderstood, I will try to clarify why my reaction has been as it has been.

First, you don't know me enough to base opinion like Niena Eluch did (and no hard feeling, I just thought that you are putting me in a drawer of people who
might think in that way as 'I am just a human being, so what can I do, because even though I have a lot of issues in myself that I have to work on, that is certainly not the one. My approach to life is not by any means of "so what can I do" type. Totally opposite.).

Second, I do like video games and have been playing, but from which part of my post you have concluded that I am an addictive game player? It is just not the case. Last time I have been playing is almost year ago. I have played for a few days, and when it was finished, it was finished. Would you consider someone who watch a movie from time to time as a movie addict? I have been merely stating that I like to play (as some other members) and that once you start, it is difficult to turn the computer off. Therefore, your conclusions in this case simply does not mach the truth. Now, since you are probably deep into the Work, ask yourselves why are you making conclusions based on data so scarce as it was in my few sentences long post? The result of that practice is very rarely objective and close to reality. Well, not for my sake (I can just leave this forum as many others did and no harm done), but for the sake of your Work, please be aware that you have been mistaken. Most of your conclusions do not correspond with reality. Even though you maybe did point to certain issues that I should ponder (like Anart), the frame in which you others based your conclusions is totally wrong. I can perhaps write a list of 20 pages about issues and traits that I want to overcome and some of them are pretty urgent, but what you pointed does not match.

Third, what Anart said about dissociative state, ringed something because I do spend a lot of time in it, so I wanted to learn more about it in order to see up to which point it might
be part of normal human functioning and where it becomes pathological and what are the dangers, but what I've got from you was link to a Structural theory on Narcissism and Psychopathy (an article which, by the way, I have read before). Sorry, but is there something between superhuman and psychopath?

Fourth, while I would be really gratefull for real help in terms that Anart have described, especially related to sacred cows, of all my sacred cows- gaming is not one of them. I do not defend it, nor do I feel need to do so, and I am neither one of those people who believe that computer games are good nor one of those who believe they are devil's work. I have been playing some of them (like most people who participated on this thread) and my life didn't crush, I am still alive and kicky. As for addictiveness- my opinion is that staff (games, TV, books, alcohol, medications, computers etc.) are not addictive, but people are. So what for one person can just be fun, for other can become addictiveness. I have been reading even about people becoming addictive to fitness!!!

So, maybe I am half asleep, not aware, for all you know about me I can even be a murderous psychopath or the devil himself, but please understand that giving diagnoses to people solely on a few words on the subject of not so great importance is not a right thing to do. Even though I can understand that your intention was to help, my post was on the ongoing thread in which many people expressed more or less the same what I have expressed, so why all of you jumped at me? What Anart wrote sounded serious and made me think, but everything further was totally unnecessary. Is it some kind of a ritual to jump at new people and do a thorough vivisection on them?

And if I now start with a free will issue and weather I asked for diagnose or not, this post would be too long. I have asked Anart a specific question and would maybe ask further after I contemplate what she pointed, but in that case I would post a new topic (yes, one of those with Pleese help me flavour), with some background and information necessary for any further discussion.
 

Oxajil

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Nela said:
OK, being misunderstood, I will try to clarify why my reaction has been as it has been.

First, you don't know me enough to base opinion like Niena Eluch did (and no hard feeling, I just thought that you are putting me in a drawer of people who
might think in that way as 'I am just a human being, so what can I do, because even though I have a lot of issues in myself that I have to work on, that is certainly not the one. My approach to life is not by any means of "so what can I do" type. Totally opposite.).

What is your goal in life? Is it maybe to know your machine better? Isn't a great way of knowing that by being active in a network like this and asking others to help you with this or ask for their opinions and to try to look into the mirrors they put in front of you so that you can observe your behavior from other angles and perhaps that would make it better for you to work on yourself? You talk about others not knowing you enough, but do you even know yourself?

Wouldn't you rather want to ask "Why do you have such an opinion about me? On what is it based?" in stead of saying "Don't say that, you don't know me!" ? Because sometimes others see sides of you that you don't see or have noticed. And of course others could be wrong, but it does no harm to ask and who knows, maybe it'll even turn out as a great lesson.
 

Sleepy

The Force is Strong With This One
Oxajil said:
Nela said:
OK, being misunderstood, I will try to clarify why my reaction has been as it has been.

First, you don't know me enough to base opinion like Niena Eluch did (and no hard feeling, I just thought that you are putting me in a drawer of people who
might think in that way as 'I am just a human being, so what can I do, because even though I have a lot of issues in myself that I have to work on, that is certainly not the one. My approach to life is not by any means of "so what can I do" type. Totally opposite.).

What is your goal in life? Is it maybe to know your machine better? Isn't a great way of knowing that by being active in a network like this and asking others to help you with this or ask for their opinions and to try to look into the mirrors they put in front of you so that you can observe your behavior from other angles and perhaps that would make it better for you to work on yourself? You talk about others not knowing you enough, but do you even know yourself?

Yes, by politely and humbly asking and providing certain beckground and information about myself in order to get answer with which I can do something on my machine.
And even that after I carefully investigated subject of my question on this forum and other sites in order to be able to ask intelligent questions and discuss.
And after I get answers, I would carefully review other posts of the person who answered in order to get some picture about him/her before I take answer into consideration (sorry, everything on this planet is corruptible ,we have to be careful. We actually don't know each other and as I don't want to be advised about finances by broke person, about marriage by divorced...you get what I mean?).

Wouldn't you rather want to ask "Why do you have such an opinion about me? On what is it based?" in stead of saying "Don't say that, you don't know me!" ? Because sometimes others see sides of you that you don't see or have noticed. And of course others could be wrong, but it does no harm to ask and who knows, maybe it'll even turn out as a great lesson.

An opinion is based on following:

I love computer games, and I am still playing from time to time (how would I othervise experience joy of saving Galaxy from Dominators, or explore
mysterious world of Morrowind?). I am 36 year old, and certainly at any time have more important things to do than running around with light saber saving...whatever there is to be saved. But I believe that even when we grow up, we remain children deep inside and that childish playfull side needs to be expressed from time to time. And anything that can be used, can be abused as well. Books are not different. If you don't believe, just ask my mother. When I was a child, I was not social, I was very shy and I used to spend most of my time reading books. Everyday, all the time, to the point of exhaustion. It was running away from reality, it was addiction, it was living in virtual world. One day, my mother announced
that if I don't stop that, and go out to play with other children, she would take me to doctor. So, even though I found nothing of big interest outside, I have started to play with other
children, just to satisfy her and behave according to "normality" in order to relieve her anxiety (ha, external consideration of a 12 years old child!). Today, I am aware of my addictive side, and I am trying to control it. Sometimes, only sometimes, I am allowing myself to play computer game, spend whole day reading andneglect chores, duties and work or eat whole pack of chocolate. But I am only limited and demented 3D STS being and on a day when and if I manage to let go of all those traits and do only what should be done, I probably won't be here any more.

I have been reading posts on this forum for some time now, and started to consider it priceless for information and insight it contains and while I really respect some people here, I am wondering how many times it happened that some participants jumped in to support something that for example, Anart have said, only because she said so, without fully grasping even what has been said?
Seeing some posts I wonder did some of them even read my post at all? And I do not argue things that were said which I first have to think about in order to accept/discard them. I am arguing that based on false premise (like that I am addictive computer player or one of those "I am just I human so what can I do" type- those are things that I can discard as untrue) it is impossible to reach correct conclusion. Aside from me, my ego, traits or whatever, stating things that are wrong from the premise, you are polluting possible source of wisdom and insight. Therefore, if you want to help someone with his machine, is it not normal to at least ask additional questions in order to, if nothing else, confirm your diagnose or opinion? Don't you think that this kind of things recquire at least some form of "conversation" with person you are assessing? Not to mention posts that were not addressing me personally but were written like I am some sort even and not a person? Well, books are nice and full of wisdom but by hitting people with theoretical wisdom without checking wether it really applies to them or subject at hand is not a way of learning.

What did I get from it all? One advice that I would think about and tons of classifications that spoiled something that might have actually helped me.

[Moderation : quotes marks corrected ]
 

anart

A Disturbance in the Force
Nela said:
I have been reading posts on this forum for some time now, and started to consider it priceless for information and insight it contains and while I really respect some people here, I am wondering how many times it happened that some participants jumped in to support something that for example, Anart have said, only because she said so, without fully grasping even what has been said?
Seeing some posts I wonder did some of them even read my post at all? And I do not argue things that were said which I first have to think about in order to accept/discard them. I am arguing that based on false premise (like that I am addictive computer player or one of those "I am just I human so what can I do" type- those are things that I can discard as untrue) it is impossible to reach correct conclusion. Aside from me, my ego, traits or whatever, stating things that are wrong from the premise, you are polluting possible source of wisdom and insight. Therefore, if you want to help someone with his machine, is it not normal to at least ask additional questions in order to, if nothing else, confirm your diagnose or opinion? Don't you think that this kind of things recquire at least some form of "conversation" with person you are assessing? Not to mention posts that were not addressing me personally but were written like I am some sort even and not a person? Well, books are nice and full of wisdom but by hitting people with theoretical wisdom without checking wether it really applies to them or subject at hand is not a way of learning.

What did I get from it all? One advice that I would think about and tons of classifications that spoiled something that might have actually helped me.

This is getting a tad ridiculous.  Nela, it might be worth your while to stop just a moment and - at the very least - observe the amount of time and energy you are putting into making it oh so clear that no one knows what they're talking about here and that you have given no indication whatsoever that you are not willing to accept the fact that video games are objectively harmful, and that you won't 'let them go' - or that, perhaps, there are parts of yourself that you have evidenced that you cannot see.  In short, you protest too much.

Can you  - at the very least - see that?  Can you see the emotion in your responses - the resentment, the blaming, the 'every one is wrong but me!' -- in short, the inner considering, with an increasing amount of venom?

Or - will you again deflect this as 'nobody knows what they're talking about because nobody knows me'??

You wrote:

nela said:
I love computer games, and I am still playing from time to time (how would I othervise experience joy of saving Galaxy from Dominators, or explore
mysterious world of Morrowind?). I am 36 year old, and certainly at any time have more important things to do than running around with light saber saving...whatever there is to be saved. But I believe that even when we grow up, we remain children deep inside and that childish playfull side needs to be expressed from time to time. And anything that can be used, can be abused as well. Books are not different. If you don't believe, just ask my mother. When I was a child, I was not social, I was very shy and I used to spend most of my time reading books. Everyday, all the time, to the point of exhaustion. It was running away from reality, it was addiction, it was living in virtual world. One day, my mother announced
that if I don't stop that, and go out to play with other children, she would take me to doctor. So, even though I found nothing of big interest outside, I have started to play with other
children, just to satisfy her and behave according to "normality" in order to relieve her anxiety (ha, external consideration of a 12 years old child!). Today, I am aware of my addictive side, and I am trying to control it. Sometimes, only sometimes, I am allowing myself to play computer game, spend whole day reading andneglect chores, duties and work or eat whole pack of chocolate. But I am only limited and demented 3D STS being and on a day when and if I manage to let go of all those traits and do only what should be done, I probably won't be here any more.

Read it as if you didn't write it - if you are capable of stepping out of your own identification with this and read it as if someone else wrote it, then, perhaps, you will see why what is being said to you is being said to you.

It is wholly your choice whether you play video games - or do anything - or not.  The point here is that if you come to this forum and post, expecting to be able to say whatever you want to say and not be held accountable for it - not have it held up to the light of day in one way or another, then you are really not going to enjoy this forum.

What you seem to not understand is that a LOT of information can be gathered not only from what you write but how you write it and then how you respond to what is written to you.  You can ignore that fact and pretend it is not true and cling to your 'you don't know me'  all you'd like, but it is simply not the way it is.  YOU wrote these words - if you are unaware of how they come across then that says something as well.

If you have no intention of at least considering what is said here to hold value - to be a possible truth about some aspect of yourself that you cannot see, then I see no point. Although, ultimately that is totally your choice.

Perhaps this will help...

Mme de Salzmann said:
You will see that in life you receive exactly what you give. Your life is the mirror of what you are. It is in your image. You are passive, blind, demanding. You take all, you accept all, without feeling any obligation. Your attitude toward the world and toward life is the attitude of one who has the right to make demands and to take, who has no need to pay or to earn. You believe that all things are your due, simply because it is you! All your blindness is there! None of this strikes your attention. And yet this is what keeps one world separate from another world.


You have no measure with which to measure yourselves. You live exclusively according to “I like” or “I don’t like,” you have no appreciation except for yourself. You recognize nothing above you—theoretically, logically, perhaps, but actually no. That is why you are demanding and continue to believe that everything is cheap and that you have enough in your pocket to buy everything you like. You recognize nothing above you, either outside yourself or inside. That is why, I repeat, you have no measure and live passively according to your likes and dislikes.


Yes, your “appreciation of yourself” blinds you. It is the biggest obstacle to a new life. You must be able to get over this obstacle, this threshold, before going further. This test divides men into two kinds: the “wheat” and the “chaff.” No matter how intelligent, how gifted, how brilliant a man may be, if he does not change his appreciation of himself, there will be no hope for an inner development, for a work toward self-knowledge, for a true becoming. He will remain such as he is all his life. The first requirement, the first condition, the first test for one who wishes to work on himself is to change his appreciation of himself. He must not imagine, not simply believe or think, but see things in himself which he has never seen before, see them actually. His appreciation will never be able to change as long as he sees nothing in himself. And in order to see, he must learn to see; this is the first initiation of man into self-knowledge.


First of all, he has to know what he must look at. When he knows, he must make efforts, keep his attention, look constantly with persistence. Only through maintaining his attention, and not forgetting to look, one day, perhaps, he will be able to see. If he sees one time he can see a second time, and if that continues he will no longer be able not to see. This is the state to be looked for, it is the aim of our observation; it is from there that the true wish will be born, the irresistible wish to become: from cold we shall become warm, vibrant; we shall be touched by our reality.


Today we have nothing but the illusion of what we are. We think too highly of ourselves. We do not respect ourselves. In order to respect myself, I have to recognize a part in myself which is above the other parts, and my attitude toward this part should bear witness to the respect that I have for it. In this way I shall respect myself. And my relations with others will be governed by the same respect.


You must understand that all the other measures—talent, education, culture, genius—are changing measures, measures of detail. The only exact measure, the only unchanging, objective real measure is the measure of inner vision. I see—I see myself—by this, you have measured. With one higher real part, you have measured another lower part, also real. And this measure, defining by itself the role of each part, will lead you to respect for yourself.


But you will see that it is not easy. And it is not cheap. You must pay dearly. For bad payers, lazy people, parasites, no hope. You must pay, pay a lot, and pay immediately, pay in advance. Pay with yourself. By sincere, conscientious, disinterested efforts. The more you are prepared to pay without economizing, without cheating, without any falsification, the more you will receive. And from that time on you will become acquainted with your nature. And you will see all the tricks, all the dishonesties that your nature resorts to in order to avoid paying hard cash. Because you have to pay with your ready-made theories, with your rooted convictions, with your prejudices, your conventions, your “I like” and “I don’t like.” Without bargaining, honestly, without pretending. Trying “sincerely” to see as you offer your counterfeit money.


Try for a moment to accept the idea that you are not what you believe yourself to be, that you overestimate yourself, in fact that you lie to yourself. That you always lie to yourself every moment, all day, all your life. That this lying rules you to such an extent that you cannot control it any more. You are the prey of lying. You lie, everywhere. Your relations with others—lies. The upbringing you give, the conventions—lies. Your teaching—lies. Your theories, your art—lies. Your social life, your family life—lies. And what you think of yourself—lies also.


But you never stop yourself in what you are doing or in what you are saying because you believe in yourself. You must stop inwardly and observe. Observe without preconceptions, accepting for a time this idea of lying. And if you observe in this way, paying with yourself, without self-pity, giving up all your supposed riches for a moment of reality, perhaps you will suddenly see something you have never before seen in yourself until this day. You will see that you are different from what you think you are. You will see that you are two. One who is not, but takes the place and plays the role of the other. And one who is, yet so weak, so insubstantial, that he no sooner appears than he immediately disappears. He cannot endure lies. The least lie makes him faint away. He does not struggle, he does not resist, he is defeated in advance. Learn to look until you have seen the difference between your two natures, until you have seen the lies, the deception in yourself. When you have seen your two natures, that day, in yourself, the truth will be born.
 

vinny

The Living Force
Nela said:
What did I get from it all? One advice that I would think about and tons of classifications that spoiled something that might have actually helped me.

ok. there is a standing assumption made that when you post you are asking for information, for others' input. Also you explicitly asked for more information about dissociation, and got offered a whole lotta useful links.

Granted, myself and others might have misunderstood what you were asking for based on, as you say, limited input. However there is, as anart has pointed out, a certain amount of data that can be gleaned from both the material of what you say and also the tone in which you say it.

Instead of asking "what did I get from it all?" maybe you could ask yourself a different question. Y'know like the JFK quote "ask not what my country can do for me, but what I can do for my country". I think that everyone who contributed to this thread did so in the sincere attempt to offer whatever they had to offer. I think it would be fair to now ask: what do you have to offer this discussion?
 

NormaRegula

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Nela, the more you write and try to place the blame on others "misconception" of your motives, (which you claim only you can know) the deeper the hole you dig for yourself. The sad thing is, you really don't get what's going on. Your sarcasm, "pity poor me" programs, and mechanical indignation thus far has failed to prove that there is a major communication issue going on here. Do you think that forum members are out to get you, (your responses indicate this), that they are being sycophants of Anart, and can't figure out where you are coming from...and how obviously you are attempting to steer the discourse away from certain subjects?
 

ScioAgapeOmnis

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Nela said:
I have been merely stating that I like to play (as some other members) and that once you start, it is difficult to turn the computer off.
Ok but why do "you" like anything? We all like different things. Some people don't like video games at all. Are you just going to shrug and say "well I happen to like them, I don't know why I like them, but I don't care because I just do". Does that perspective satisfy you? You ever wonder why one person likes one thing and another person just happens to like another thing? Where is free will in this? Why can't you decide what you're going to like consciously instead of allowing some part of you to "like" or "dislike" it all automatically and you just submit to that "like"? Why give it what it wants just because it happened to be there? Did you vote to have it there?

We're machines, we're not in control of ourselves. We have many i's and none of which is a conscious true "I". We're just submitting to our programs, impulses, urges, likes, dislikes, assumptions, fears, etc. Like a ship lost in the stormy sea that pretends it has a singular direction and knows where it is going, when it is not true at all.

Nela said:
Most of your conclusions do not correspond with reality. Even though you maybe did point to certain issues that I should ponder (like Anart), the frame in which you others based your conclusions is totally wrong. I can perhaps write a list of 20 pages about issues and traits that I want to overcome and some of them are pretty urgent, but what you pointed does not match.
What are you doing to overcome them besides wanting?

Nela said:
Fourth, while I would be really gratefull for real help in terms that Anart have described, especially related to sacred cows, of all my sacred cows- gaming is not one of them. I do not defend it, nor do I feel need to do so, and I am neither one of those people who believe that computer games are good nor one of those who believe they are devil's work.
What are games exactly? What is their appeal and why? Nobody said they are "the devil's work" but what is the objective reality here? Which aspect of ourselves enjoys video games, and why? I don't think it is an aspect interested in growth of our being and learning and paying attention to reality. And if so, it is entropic, and there is no better definition of "the devil" than entropy.

Nela said:
I have been playing some of them (like most people who participated on this thread) and my life didn't crush, I am still alive and kicky.
But that statement is meaningless, and as such, it again shows that you're still trying to defend and rationalize games as nothing bad. Millions of people play them and their lives don't "crash" and they are just as alive as they always have been - but just what is this "life" they have? They are machines, they are dissociated, brainwashed, hypnotized, confused, subjective, pathocracized, and fully asleep. Nobody said games will crash anyone's life - but there's really no "life" or "being" to begin with. Games, like many other dissociating distractions/addictions, keep you where you are - asleep.

Nela said:
As for addictiveness- my opinion is that staff (games, TV, books, alcohol, medications, computers etc.) are not addictive, but people are. So what for one person can just be fun, for other can become addictiveness. I have been reading even about people becoming addictive to fitness!!!
It's not just about addictiveness, it's also about the nature and effects of the activity itself. But as I said above, what makes something "fun" or "addicting" to someone? We are machines, these likes/dislikes/addictions come from our machines and exist for the benefit of the machine. Liking/enjoying/having fun with something does not make it objectively beneficial for the growth of your Being in any way shape or form. Defending something just because some part, for some reason (that you are apparently yet to discover), chooses to "like it" amounts to defending your machine.

Nela said:
but please understand that giving diagnoses to people solely on a few words on the subject of not so great importance is not a right thing to do.
There's the law of 3 - there's good, there's evil, and the specific situation that determines which is which. But unless you can explain what playing games has to do with growing your Being and increasing your free will and ability to Do, it really is impossible to "defend" videogames as harmless. Whenever you do anything you choose either for Creation or Entropy. Playing games is not a choice for Creation - and it is really amazing the distortions and twisting our machine can do to try to make entropic and self-defeating activities into something they are not.
 

Sleepy

The Force is Strong With This One
Sorry, I really don't understand. What I have actually said to trigger this response is beyond my current understanding.
I am sorry for taking up your time.
 
H

Hildegarda

Guest
Nela said:
I do like video games and have been playing, but from which part of my post you have concluded that I am an addictive game player? It is just not the case. Last time I have been playing is almost year ago. I have played for a few days, and when it was finished, it was finished. Would you consider someone who watch a movie from time to time as a movie addict?

No, I wouldn't consider such person a movie addict. Unless that person attaches a lot of significance to it, for no reason at all. Which is what you did here -- without prompting, you brought up a supposedly insignificant year-old experience and defended your right to enjoy it. Clearly, it means more to you than you care to admit.

ask yourselves why are you making conclusions based on data so scarce as it was in my few sentences long post? The result of that practice is very rarely objective and close to reality.


I personally just go by what you wrote. One's words tell a lot about what one thinks.


Fourth, while I would be really gratefull for real help in terms that Anart have described, especially related to sacred cows, of all my sacred cows- gaming is not one of them.

in Work, one small thing or program tripped tends to open up a Pandora's box of stuff. If you open yourself up to what people are telling you, you'll get a better view of all other sacred cows that you have. Been there, done that.

As for addictiveness- my opinion is that staff (games, TV, books, alcohol, medications, computers etc.) are not addictive, but people are. So what for one person can just be fun, for other can become addictiveness. I have been reading even about people becoming addictive to fitness!!!


IMO here it goes beyond that. Games are not only a kind of occupational addiction, they irreversibly change the way your brain functions. And that kind of change is really not conducive to Work, EVER, no matter what your exposure is.

but please understand that giving diagnoses to people solely on a few words on the subject of not so great importance is not a right thing to do.

nobody would think of diagnosing you. You came into the thread and shared your experiences, in hopes of become something better. What kind of response did you expect? Any kind of patting you on the back would have only made you do what you are already doing.
 

Avala

The Living Force
Nela said:
Sorry, I really don't understand. What I have actually said to trigger this response is beyond my current understanding.
I am sorry for taking up your time.

This is cute, reminds me of me :)

Nela,

don’t run away, or better said, don’t give up.

It’s not your liking of the games that everyone attacked (as you probably see that as attack). It is your reaction which is attacked. Cool down, let some time pass, and then come back and read what you have wrote. Maybe you will release that you reacted in kind of a special state of mind, that in that moment you have felled almost emotional urge to react like that.

Then read what others have wrote, don’t mind if some phrase piss you of, or if some word causes some emotional reaction in you, that’s most probably because you still don’t understand it, and pisses you when people are “being smart and you are not”. Neglect words and phrases at the time and read tone and message of the posts. You’ll see that nobody attacks you.And that some people know what they are talking.

Take all of that with small spoon, and in amount that you can comprehend at the time, maybe one day you will be able to comprehend much more, but that depends on you.


As I see it, and that don’t means that’s true, your emotional reaction is good, you are very lucky, disturbance is good, maybe it means that there is something to be disturbed. Well than, shake that furthermore and change it. Read all of this in the morning with cool head, or even for a day or two.

That quote from Mme de Salzmann that Anart gave is excellent. Which book is that?

I was even worse than you, was blabbing even worse and more empty (hollow) stupidity, just because I didn’t think. This is my first post in more than a year, was reading all the time though.

If I’m remembering it correctly that was SAO that “attacked” me that last time :)
 

Tigersoap

The Living Force
Immersion / Watch teenagers engrossed in video games (video)

I did not know where to post it because this short movie is first an art project by the photographer Robbie Cooper whose main focus is to explore the medias, virtual world, video games in the lives of ordinary people.

_http://www.robbiecooper.org/

The following video is called Immersion and shows teenagers engrossed in playing video-games.

I watched it first without the sound and I had a strange mix of feelings that was between sadness and fascination by the micro-expressions shown by the teenagers.
Very disturbing to say the least.

_http://video.nytimes.com/video/2008/11/21/magazine/1194833565213/immersion.html

Robbie Cooper is going to build a study with Paul Ekman (_http://www.paulekman.com/) in trying to get datas from teenagers watching news of war, war video games and so on to build a picture of what happens.

The avatar project on Robbie Cooper site is interesting as well and again to me, very sad in some respect as people playing online games are juxtaposed next to their online-gaming avatar.

Note:

It seems like Paul Ekman, is part of the ongoing process of utilizing micro-expresions to spot "Terrorists" on the fly so I have doubts that the research will be used for the greater good.

As stated numerous time on the SOTT, behavioral studies are used to further the access to our brain
(http://www.sott.net/articles/show/171001-Behavioral-screening-the-future-of-airport-security-)

see his article here for example : _http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/27/AR2006102701478.html

EDIT : Minor Typo, added link and comment.
 
H

Hildegarda

Guest
Got this in my mailbox today:


_http://blog.youthrights.org/2010/08/11/schwarzenegger_v_gamers_help_us_fight_back/

Schwarzenegger v Gamers - Help Us Fight Back

Filed under: Freedom of Speech, NYRA Projects and News, Organizational Topics, Technology



Arnold is trying to take away your games. Don’t let him.

California passed a law that would ban the sale of all “violent” video games to individuals under 18. The case of whether or not this law is Constitutional is going before the US Supreme Court. Their ruling could have far reaching implications for how games are produced, who gets to play them and how they look. Even if you aren’t under 18 this court case could be just the first step to larger and stricter standards that will affect everyone. Jeff Green lays out why you should care. The Entertainment Consumers Association calls this case the “single most important moment for gamers, and the pivotal issue for gaming, in the sector’s history.”

No one on the Supreme Court has ever played a video game. None of the lawyers for either side have ever played a video game. These people are going to be setting down law that will affect tens of millions of gamers and young people across the country, but their only knowledge of video games comes from the testimonies of people like Andrew Schlafly, who paint video games as little more than realistic murder simulators.

NYRA isn’t going to let them get away with this. NYRA defends the rights of youth when they are challenged across the country. As gamers, we need to make it clear that video games are more than random violence and that no one should be denied access to them. NYRA is working on an Amicus Brief to submit to the Supreme Court, but we need your help.

Since we are one of the few organizations working on this actually made up of gamers, we need to work with the gaming community to strengthen our argument. The Supreme Court doesn’t realize the importance of video games. We need your testimonies about their social, artistic, and political value to help the justices understand just what they would be taking away if they let this law stand.

Political speech is treated differently than non-political speech. The more examples we can provide of games, especially violent ones, having some kind of political content the better. If we collect enough testimony to convince the court that video games have political value, their distribution will be protected under the First Amendment. This very well could be the silver bullet that saves video games in this case. If we convince the Court that games are political, not mindless, then we win. Simple as that.

You can be a part of saving video games. Leave a comment on this post describing your thoughts on the social, artistic and, especially, political value of video games. Together, we can strike this law down.


There are pages and pages of comments where people describe the "valuable cultural commentary" and "profound political and moral commentary" of their favorite games.

:/
 
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