video games

Kay Kim

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Thank you 3D Student,
You sent me a strong reinforcement to add my mind, therefor I will never go back to Skinner Boxes again.

Now, I can see very clearly that I was on fools errand, nonexistent illusion world, to save person, save village, and trying to save whole humanity.
That was certainly useless quest. Haha
 

Dakota

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Uff, this is sensitive topic for me.
It is not just about the games, it is about the time, I don't like to be bored, trying in every way to avoid that feeling because it is so much to see, do, feel.
Games are for me, also, runaway from reality where I cannot be where ever I want. For example, if you wanna build a house in the real world you need so much, so much to do and so many years to past. Also, you have to have so much money. What ever you wanna do in you real life you have to do it hard and for a long time. And in games you just have to click some buttons and you are in. Sadly, nothing is material in virtual world ;).
I have noticed reading this thread that every gamer talks about his game with a passion, pardon me if I was wrong.
I have so many stories to tell how I was "wise" and calculate when I was playing online game Khanwars. We were fighting against other clan and there was a lot of them who attack's me because I was close to them. So I plant sneaky trap for them. I made my self another account far away from everyone. In a short time I was filtrate my self in their clan. Building my production and army. I had my goal, to conquer they castles over the night, when they go to sleep. So, after couple of months I went out from their clan so I can attack them and I have conquered they castles, at least they arrived online ;). That is nothing, just my memories, it doesn't have any value to my personality, is it just waste of time, although I enjoyed in planning and accomplishing my goal. I don't wanna be sneaky in my real life because I don't feel good also I think that is very stupid in long terms, even I'm very calculate person (in a bad and good way), maybe because I have lived in narcissistic family where you have to "fight" for everything.

Also, before I been introduce to the Work I have day dreaming all the time. I was one of the people who thought that they will achieve anything if they dream about it :-[.

I like when things our moving, and with playing games I don't think that something is changing in me. And when I'm read some constructive book I can understand things better and feeling I have learned something. Obviously with games (like Khanwars and my planting) I have tried to deluded my self that I could learn something from the game, but the big difference between reading a book (especially on different language) is click. Do you wanna stretch your mind and continuously do that or just wanna click and lost yourself in virtual world, in fact, in a Skinner box. How can someone want to deliberately put himself in the box? Em I lazy, don't know enough, is that some sneaky program that what to stop me from learning or is that just part of my learning process?

Usually I read my post over and over to be sure that don't put my self in bad position, but this time I will do it impulsive.

Also, I don't play anymore Khanwars. I'm playing stupid game Tankionline. There is nothing to learn in this game, just shooting. :cry: Felling like a child that admits mother for his mistake ;).
 

3DStudent

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Dakota said:
How can someone want to deliberately put himself in the box? Em I lazy, don't know enough, is that some sneaky program that what to stop me from learning or is that just part of my learning process?

I think it's all just learning. Games are just a sandbox. And when you move to the larger, more real sandbox, you realize that the smaller sandbox is kind of pointless. And in that sense it served a purpose.
 

Dakota

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Sorry, 3D Student I missed you post before. Yes, I agree, that could serve as a purpose, very good point.

I have found excellent article about video games.

Here is some part that I like the most:

Crusade Magazine: Could you please explain why you founded Online Gamers Anonymous?

Mrs. Woolley: In 2000, my son Shawn became addicted to an online video game called Everquest. Within three months he quit his job, got evicted from his home, and was up all night playing. Despite our efforts to help him get his life back together, he committed suicide only a year and a half after being introduced to the game.

Many teenagers being pulled into these games are actually geniuses. They are very intelligent and highly motivated. Proof of this is that many games require hours of tedious effort, concentration and patience. It is very sad to see how all this brilliant mind power is being wasted.

Crusade: Most video games give children a sense of worth and accomplishment. What's wrong with that?

Mrs. Woolley: One of the main dangers is precisely that it is so very easy to get worth and accomplishment from a game. And if you don't succeed or like what you did you can just restart until you get it right. Well, real life isn't like that. Real life isn't easy and you don't often get do-overs. So the child grows disappointed with real life and ends up by quitting in real life. He says, “This is too hard,” and runs back to the games.

And, I have also noticed that there is many article's on Internet that says that playing video games is good thing, for example this one:

Here are 15 ways games are programming better people:
They're producing better surgeons.
They may help people overcome dyslexia.
They could improve your vision.
You might get a career boost.
Players can become fascinated with history.
They make kids physical.
They help ease the pain.
They may slow the aging process.
You'll make a social connection.
They improve balance in MS sufferers.
You'll make a faster decisions.
They might curb cravings.
They'll reduce stress.
Gamers might be less likely to bully.
They can help address autism.

It's ridiculus. The funny thing is that this article is published by Mental floss, at least is funny on my language ;).
 

biala84

Jedi Master
When i was in high school i was playing ,,Lara Croft'' or ,,Age of empires'' Then i stop. As we know that by movies and music sometimes they try to control our mind so i think with a games is the same story. If you are awake person then You know where is the line :)
 

Renaissance

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Dakota said:
And, I have also noticed that there is many article's on Internet that says that playing video games is good thing, for example this one:

Here are 15 ways games are programming better people:
They're producing better surgeons.
They may help people overcome dyslexia.
They could improve your vision.
You might get a career boost.
Players can become fascinated with history.
They make kids physical.
They help ease the pain.
They may slow the aging process.
You'll make a social connection.
They improve balance in MS sufferers.
You'll make a faster decisions.
They might curb cravings.
They'll reduce stress.
Gamers might be less likely to bully.
They can help address autism.

It's ridiculus. The funny thing is that this article is published by Mental floss, at least is funny on my language ;).

Whoever came up with that list must have fried their brain playing too many video games!
 

Luks

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Renaissance said:
Dakota said:
And, I have also noticed that there is many article's on Internet that says that playing video games is good thing, for example this one:

Here are 15 ways games are programming better people:
They're producing better surgeons.
They may help people overcome dyslexia.
They could improve your vision.
You might get a career boost.
Players can become fascinated with history.
They make kids physical.
They help ease the pain.
They may slow the aging process.
You'll make a social connection.
They improve balance in MS sufferers.
You'll make a faster decisions.
They might curb cravings.
They'll reduce stress.
Gamers might be less likely to bully.
They can help address autism.

It's ridiculus. The funny thing is that this article is published by Mental floss, at least is funny on my language ;).

Whoever came up with that list must have fried their brain playing too many video games!

Yeah, games can also extend the period of virginity.

I would say that it's real that games have some positive influence on gamers. Even simple FPS teach perceptivity and reflex, also in spite of appearances, games need a lot of focusing... especially if you have an advanced opponent.

But the problem is that results you achieve in the game's world, those results are just illusion. The energy someone commit give just results in the imaginary world.

Except is when the player is very good and he can with his abilities win tournaments or something and earn Real Money, to exploite in the real world.

But who have such skills? A few. Other, the mass just sponsor big concern which producing computer games.
 

Renaissance

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
lux said:
I would say that it's real that games have some positive influence on gamers. Even simple FPS teach perceptivity and reflex, also in spite of appearances, games need a lot of focusing... especially if you have an advanced opponent.

But the problem is that results you achieve in the game's world, those results are just illusion. The energy someone commit give just results in the imaginary world.

I think there may be some conflict in the above two statements. If we look at the 'focus' aspect that you mention, it is a focus build upon negative dissociation and doesn't translate to better attention in other areas.

For example, see: http://www.futurity.org/more-video-games-more-attention-trouble/

Many kids who play for long periods actually have attention problems in other areas of life. This makes sense because there is a bombardment of stimulation found in video games that is not found in normal life, so the brain gets bored and is constantly seeking additional stimulation.

I think you're second point hits the mark. 'Results' that are thought to be gained are illusory. I would say that includes various skills that gamers might think they are developing as well.
 

luc

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Renaissance said:
I think there may be some conflict in the above two statements. If we look at the 'focus' aspect that you mention, it is a focus build upon negative dissociation and doesn't translate to better attention in other areas.

For example, see: http://www.futurity.org/more-video-games-more-attention-trouble/

Many kids who play for long periods actually have attention problems in other areas of life. This makes sense because there is a bombardment of stimulation found in video games that is not found in normal life, so the brain gets bored and is constantly seeking additional stimulation.

I think you're second point hits the mark. 'Results' that are thought to be gained are illusory. I would say that includes various skills that gamers might think they are developing as well.

I agree. I think developing real physical skills is not about "training" reactions in front of a computer, but more about mindfulness, body awareness, proper breathing and so on. In other words, you train to be more "present", more aware, more open, more "still". Playing video games does quite the opposite: you close yourself to the world, you disengage from the body, you are sucked into a fantasy world of extreme stimulation, which makes it impossible to even perceive any subtleties, much less focus on them or react to them.

While researching office chairs once, I realized that there is a market for "gamer chairs", apparently offered so that people can sit "comfortably" for hours while gaming. This doesn't strike me as very healthy, productive, or useful...
 

Dakota

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
lux said:
Yeah, games can also extend the period of virginity.
Sure, but I don't think that this is a good thing, because the most gamers are not social at all. I don't have study to back up this, but I know from my experience, because I was fanatic in playing video games (online too), that in those days my only occupation and thought was what happend with my castle, army or whatever is related with a game that I'm playing. I didn't have interest for the people in real life. Also, even virtually bounding in different types of clans can be feeling of being part of community it means nothing because you cannot accomplish something real, constructive or beneficial.

I would say that it's real that games have some positive influence on gamers. Even simple FPS teach perceptivity and reflex, also in spite of appearances, games need a lot of focusing... especially if you have an advanced opponent.
Even there is some article's on SOTT.net that says that playing video games improves eyesight I don't think that it is something beneficial about it. For example, the most popular game online GTA 5 earn 800 million dollars in just three days when was released has very bad influence on my little friend (10 years old). Usually he is very nice, polite, tender and very clever, when he plays that game he become the same like others players, interested only in killing. When I played that game, I was interested only in mission and heist, because the heist give you opportunity to with help of other players earn some big money. He is not interested in mission or progress at all, he is just go around and kill if somebody is on his way. And if someone kills him, he become very obsessive to revenge. Also, usually he is very carring (even he is only 10 years old) but when he plays this game he interrupt me in my work without consideration how I feel. Even, when I said him to be nice and ask me only if he need help. When he study English with my friend he shows that is important to him to be great in school, to learn and improve himself, but when he play GTA 5 Online he doesn't show those characteristic.

Except is when the player is very good and he can with his abilities win tournaments or something and earn Real Money, to exploite in the real world.
But who have such skills? A few. Other, the mass just sponsor big concern which producing computer games.
I'm sorry if I understood you wrongly but you say this like that there is accomplishment behind that. First of all, I don't see any benefit from competition, it is the same old trap that many drop in. Because there will be always someone better than you. And earning money from playing video games surrely gonna destroy your health, so why you need money for?
 

Dakota

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Unusual thing happend after I wrote latest post in this thread. I have wrote article about how dangerous GTA 5 Online is, when my little friend which I have mentioned above, ask me what I'm doing. I told him and showed him pictures from article which shows that this game is all about a killing, making money and gain virtual respect (with killing and making money). I have also explained him the amazing explanation which I use in my article from this: 5 Creepy Ways Video Games Are Trying to Get You Addicted and he was very interested to learn more. The problem is that we are living in small village and that he doesn't have interesting friend to play with. So, I propose him that we found some other activities that will help him to improve or just explore something and he like that idea.

And he also mentioned that he knows many guys that are making real money from posting video games on You tube. I didn't know about it. He says that you can make real money if you collect enough subscribers. How can you beat that? Ok, so I try to explain him that with that 'knowledge' you gonna be busted if that stop be interesting for others, or what will happend if you electricity gone off. Among that, I said that those people already lost they health and many of they ability. But if you collect real knowledge in real life you can make real progress.

I wonder if he will call me to come tomorrow for some more video games or he gonna ask me to do something else? Cute little fellow.
 

bjorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
[quote author=Dakota]but when he play GTA 5 Online he doesn't show those characteristic.[/quote]

Maybe that's because beating and robbing people of to earn yourself a visit to the strip club isn't something a 10 year old should do or anyone for that matter.

Or whatever activities he aspires in the game. It's center-focused on violence, cursing and sadism


[quote author= Lux]Except is when the player is very good and he can with his abilities win tournaments or something and earn Real Money, to exploite in the real world.

But who have such skills? A few. Other, the mass just sponsor big concern which producing computer games.[/quote]

Having played competitive RTS (Strategy games) in my teens. Most in the high ranking community (Dozen er so) where like the Bobby Fischer type. (Chess prodigy from the seventies) They couldn't enjoy the puzzle. It was all about winning and dominating others while being overly paranoid about blaming external issues whenever they lost. Many couldn't keep up because of the stress they inflicted upon themselves. But that's what happens when obsessions takes over, it destroys your health. And that's what it did for most people in the community.

At least back in the day you where just a nerd if you where engaged in such activities. Apparently now you are a rockstar with an huge audience able to win millions.

That doesn't mean it's a good thing, all it means is that our priorities as a society has decayed even further.
 

meta-agnostic

Jedi Master
Since this thread has been resurrected I suppose it's a good time to tell my story as a recovering addict who might still occasionally take a dose of methadone.

I was part of the NES generation with Nintendo becoming popular just before I entered adolescence. Sure I enjoyed arcade and various computer games and the beat up used Atari we had for maybe a year before I just had to save up money so I could have a Nintendo. I'm not sure exactly how long it took to become problematic but with only one (color) TV in the house there were a lot of arguments about turning it off to come to dinner, or so TV could be watched by others, and eventually the unhooking of the RF connector so I could leave it on and not lose progress since saving was rarely an option back then.

As NES gave way in popularity to SNES and all the subsequent next-gen consoles, I think I was able to take a step back and realize that while I seemed to get immense enjoyment from these games, they weren't exactly making me a better person and probably not something wise to invest time/money into. I still went back and occasionally played the NES through high school until at some point it completely broke, but I never again bought another video game console (okay I guess one of those little retro Atari joystick things with 8 games on it but I'm not sure that counts).

My window into re-addiction came in college in the mid-late-90's with the discovery of ROMs and emulators and that all of my favorite old Nintendo games could be played on current day PCs. They even had a save state option so that with just a little effort toward timing I could now beat some of the games I never had the patience to complete back in the day. It certainly seemed like scratching a nostalgic itch to indulge in this once in a while but it never translated into wanting to play the more recent games like GTA, WoW, etc. I would occasionally get the chance to play newer games on someone else's system but they never did much for me, certainly not enough for it to be worth getting my own system and diving completely into that immersive, dissociative world.

So now if I do find myself in a "bored" period (I know, there's never really a good excuse) I only go back and play the 8-bit (whatever that actually means, occasionally I'll go 16-bit) games from my youth. Your Marios, Zeldas, Metroids, Castlevanias and what have you. If I'm feeling the need for variety or something newer, there are fan sites that re-write some of these games, keeping the essential elements but rearranging things just enough so that it seems like you're playing an updated version or a sequel to the original game.

I don't want to make excuses; I do still think video games overall are an entropic influence and even some learning that can come from them is usually outweighed by the negatives, but is it possible that strictly sticking to old games is not as "bad" as playing some of the newer ones that have been so slickly designed to program you? Sort of like the discussions about music, and how music from the 70's-80's had increasing amounts of programming in it until now it's pretty much all pervasive.

It's still addiction and dissociation regardless of how limited it may be but on average I only go on nostalgic video game binges maybe once or twice a year for maybe a month or so, and sometimes not for several years. Though not but a few months ago I was reminded of just how powerful the pull can be. I discovered that the original DOS PC game Civilization had been ported to SNES and I had never played the port. I had to keep coming back to it until I had cornered the 2 or 3 remaining civilizations so they could never catch up with me technologically and I had built the space ship! At least with that game it makes you think about aspects of history, technology and strategy in a somewhat creative way. Although the goal is to conquer the world it gives you some options about just how STS you want/need to be while doing it, and makes you think about just how sordid the whole endeavor is for those doing it in real life.
 

Zar

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
meta-agnostic said:
Since this thread has been resurrected I suppose it's a good time to tell my story as a recovering addict who might still occasionally take a dose of methadone.



So now if I do find myself in a "bored" period (I know, there's never really a good excuse) I only go back and play the 8-bit (whatever that actually means, occasionally I'll go 16-bit) games from my youth. Your Marios, Zeldas, Metroids, Castlevanias and what have you. If I'm feeling the need for variety or something newer, there are fan sites that re-write some of these games, keeping the essential elements but rearranging things just enough so that it seems like you're playing an updated version or a sequel to the original game.

I don't want to make excuses; I do still think video games overall are an entropic influence and even some learning that can come from them is usually outweighed by the negatives, but is it possible that strictly sticking to old games is not as "bad" as playing some of the newer ones that have been so slickly designed to program you? Sort of like the discussions about music, and how music from the 70's-80's had increasing amounts of programming in it until now it's pretty much all pervasive.

It's still addiction and dissociation regardless of how limited it may be but on average I only go on nostalgic video game binges maybe once or twice a year for maybe a month or so, and sometimes not for several years. Though not but a few months ago I was reminded of just how powerful the pull can be. I discovered that the original DOS PC game Civilization had been ported to SNES and I had never played the port. I had to keep coming back to it until I had cornered the 2 or 3 remaining civilizations so they could never catch up with me technologically and I had built the space ship! At least with that game it makes you think about aspects of history, technology and strategy in a somewhat creative way. Although the goal is to conquer the world it gives you some options about just how STS you want/need to be while doing it, and makes you think about just how sordid the whole endeavor is for those doing it in real life.

I agree, I was an avid game starting at about 13 years old when my siblings and myself received out first computer. I later played N64 and slowly evolved into ps, xbox, wii, and the newest PC games. I stuck to fantasy games mostly, and now I once in a while indulge in League of Legends. Thankfully thought I've somewhat outgrown my gaming addiction, but somedays it helps when I'm feeling ocd.
 
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