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[atreides]

Hi,

As some know I've taken up karate a few months ago, and now it's the end of their "session" and it's pretty clear to me that I don't really want to keep on with it, because it's just obvious that some of the stuff doesn't work.

You are not alone, many people get to this point early in their training, it's why I think something like only 1 in 7 adults who start martial arts classes continue beyond the first month.

First of all, we learned more blocks than anything else, and I can see why they're useless - what the teacher says is that for a block to be effective you have to stop it before is bypasses the shoulder - and well, seems to me that it just doesn't work, plus most of the blocks are obviously intended to be used when the strike gets to you.

There are no blocks in Kata or forms, anyone who says differently is either a) Intentionally concealing the truth, or b) more likely doesn't know. Everything is a strike, or a hold/lock/break. You just don't see because it is practiced alone, when you add in another person you start to see what is being taught. Also alot of movements in kata are an abstract language.

Also I don't trust some of those forms they show us - like something they call "downward hammer", which is basically reacting to someone grabbing your wrist by making a block for an expected crochet from the other side - and leaving yourself completely open in the front. Seems to me those things only work if your opponent is doing a predictable routine. What if they choose to do something else - such as, say, punch you from the front?

I am not 100% sure what movement you are discussing, as it's been many years since I actively studied karate. You could make a video of the movement if you want and I will see if I know it, maybe I can explain it maybe not. Also remember that there are at least three levels to every move and explanation, what you tell to kyus, what you tell to pre 4th dans, and then the truth.

Anyways I've looked into some of the things that were mentioned here - I kinda dropped everything that was done with weapons because I figured that if /when I have to fight I'm unlikely to have a weapon . What looks real interesting to me is Wing Tsu and Wu Xing.

It sounds like you have had a really bad teacher, weapons and empty hand movements are the same, for instance all of the locks and hand to hand techniques in Aikido are based on sword and counter sword maneuvers. Kali hand to hand is a better example, Arnis as well. Wing Tsun butterfly sword techniques are another example.

While doing a pretty general search I found the following stuff, which I thought might be interesting regarding the original request - it's basically things that people said on a Chinese history forum:

SCP, the most original statement of the Wu Xing school is the Hongfan (Great Norm) chapter of the Shangshu/Shujing. I think you can look for Legge's classic translation of the Shangshu. All elaborations and expansions on the Wu Xing philosophy by the Han Confucians (including Dong Zhongshu) used the Hongfan as a starting point.

Aihe Wang's book "Cosmology and Political Culture in Early China" (2000) discusses the development of Wuxing, including its precedent in the Shang Dynasty's "Sifang" system. She stresses that there were numerous Wuxing systems in existence, before it finally stabilized. Some of the sources she mentions are: Hongfan chapter of the Shangshu, The Lushi Chunqiu, The Zuo Zhuan, The Guanzi, the Huainanzi (chapters 3, 4, 5), The Mawangdui Xingde text, and the Shuihudi Rishu (Daybooks).

Not sure if this was what you were looking for Atreides, but I thought it might be relevant to martial arts and/or your project.

I figured that Wing Tsu and Wing Chu were the same thing; somebody please tell me if they're not. I really like that idea of using the attacker's own strength against them, because, well, the situations where knowing how to fight would have been useful in the past always involved a size disadvantage for me.

Now Wu Xing seems to be a science applied to all kinds of different ends - something like the idea of ch'i, like a theory of the way people and things work, and it's been mentioned that the one-inch punch is done using Wu Xing, and several of the websites that sell Wing Chu/Tsu courses mention (promise?) the one-inch punch - therefore Wing Tsu includes studying some Wu Xing? Or is it better to study Wu Xing separately?

You mean Wing Tsun and Wing Chun, yes different transliterations, as far as I know.

I decided I would teach myself from books seen as I'm geographically challenged (i.e. I live far from cities), and there's nowhere to find such courses. I have seen a lot of books for sale, but a lot of them look suspicious (like way too commercial), and well, would anyone have a suggestion of good books or writers on the subject(s)?

That is not a bad idea, I am working on some home study training methods I will be posting on my www.weirding-way.com site, and maybe some vids on youtoube etc, but am waiting for some supplies to get here, and having the time to set stuff up. It is always best to find a good teacher, even if it's only to go to their seminars, I am in a similar situation here in france.

 

[Novelis]

Ruth, the way Atreides answered your questions are more or less the same way I would have answered you, albeit I wouls have done it in a less direct fashion probably...

I had a couple of questions... And I have come to the conclusion that I am not moving centre dominated, so that might be why I ask...

You seem to be assuming that I'm moving centre dominated, but there is nothing further from the truth, I see a lot of good in practicing martial arts precisely because my moving centre is in a horrible mess, I do so with the intent of living my life in a more balanced way.

Does a person 'fail' (or at least not reach their potential) when they put their most underdeveloped or perhaps non-dominant centre in control (and expect it to achieve 'good' things)? Like putting the wrong fuel in the machine.

I think Atreides is correct, you are not putting your moving centre in control while practicing martial arts, it's the "Mind Intent" that is in control, which nicely brings me to another answer I have for Atreides...

I am interested in the Dillon book, can you give me some examples?

It's rather difficult to give you an example because the "deep insight" I was referring to while giving a brief synopsis of that book is tied in with personal experience, but I'll do my best.
These are the first 5 characters in the book:

心 意 本 無 法

Xin1 Yi2 Ben3 Wu2 Fa3
Emotional Mind, Intent, Root, Without, Method
Mind/Intent, root, No Method

Mind/Intent is the basis of "methodlessness"

Methodlessness is the state of doing without doing. In the state of Methodlessness there is no difference between what you are doing and that which is done by nature. When you are in this state of total harmony, you appear to be doing nothing, yet nothing is left undone. Your quest for this harmony begins with mind/intent. In Liuhebafa, Mind/intent is the higher mind, Wisdom mind, or creative imagination. Higher mind is a faculty of the essential or true self. Mind/intent is the neutral point between cause (yang) and effect (yin). By attaining the neutral point, you can understand the ebb and flow of life so that you do not run contrary to it; you consciously cooperate with it.
Mind/Intent is not the physical will that originates in the reative mind (subconscious and conscious). The physical will tries to force and manipulate; it's always reactive rather than active. The higher Mind is active and creative and in harmony with the flow of nature. To approach this study, leave your preconceptions behind. Begin with an open and child-like mind. As you progress in Liuhebafa, you find that this unique perspective allows you to go beyond technique; indeed, you become the technique.

To put my own interpretation on the 5 characters, the first character (Xin1) means your mind, it's is also the character for "heart", in other words, it is referring to your thoughts that originate in the heart, or emotional thinking. The second character (Yi4) means intent, or cool, logical thinking, Xin1 is yang (fire) while Yi4 is Yin (water), therefore, in Chinese thought true wisdom or true action comes from the cooperative harmony of these two states. The 3rd character (Ben3) means to root and the fourth and fifth means the method of the infinite expanse of nothing.
When I first started Tai Chi, I looked around for clues as to the right method, the right way or the most effective way of practicing so that I can progress faster. I figured that all the teachers I came across are not the creator of tai chi, so therefore every master has their own interpretation of the art, like pieces of the puzzle I can collect and fit together, using my own wits to figure it out for myself. The thing is, I figured that I haven't got much time left so I thought I'd practice only the hardest set pieces I came across, dumping the fundamentals and practicing advanced stuff I discovered. Big Mistake, for my "method" derived from impatience (in other words, fear) with myself, not from pure creative imagination as Paul puts it. So I actually damaged myself doing this and had to return to the fundamentals of the art. What is amazing is that once I practiced for a while with no negative or emotional motives, but instead just focused on using my intent coupled with my heart to root in "methodlessness", 1 million and 1 new methods sprouted from absolutely nowhere, now my method is incredibly simple, yet at the same time, would appear very complicated to others. Not only that, but when I looked back into the advanced practices I was so keen to practice before, I understood why I wasn't ready for them, and have noticed how I've adopted the same principles as these advanced practices without teaching from a mater, but from the "methodlessness" inside of myself instead of fear. It's almost impossible to adopt practices from a book or from an adept because you simply can't "see" all of the experience that brought the master to that point, the impressions of how to do it are mere images created by false I's and aren't true. Words are the same, I hope my words can help, for you see, these words to someone who hasn't been through the experience will only see "images" formed inside by false impressions, so an immediate "understanding" of the words within this book are almost definitely NOT TRUE, and therefore almost impossible for me to express in mere words. I am only beginning to understand this initial 5 word secret now, and there are 134 secrets in the book! One has to really slowly digest these Chinese words, contemplating deeply and not taking them lightly. Do you "see" what I'm saying Atreides? ;)

 

[atreides]

Hi

Yes, I have in fact heard this before, as it is a core concept in almost all martial arts at the higher levels, though perhaps many of them attack it too body centrically, you may notice that essentially what he is describing is the students existance from beginning to end and is mirrored by Mouravieff's work and discussion about the progression of man along the way. You can see such a progression visually in each taiji form which is a physical representation of what is supposed to be taking place internally. Being without method is to let go of anticipation and allow oneself to flow with the river of energy that is life. I know that's all wishy washy etc, but it's really very true. When you let go of "technique" and "form" and flow from position to position, you are methodless, yet have a method, which is harmony. Performing a form over and over is a common way for one to achieve this because you begin to groove(read root) your motions in your mind until you can do them backwards and forwards without consciously thinking them. Once you get to this point, since you no longer need to think, you stop anticipating. I really wish there was a decent taiji teacher here in southern france as I would like to study it further, but martial arts in france are extremely shallow and money oriented. I studied Taiji along time ago because I wanted to get my grandma into it for health reasons, but didn't pursue it for lack of a good instructor, if only I had time to visit China for awhile and study it, alas.

Now I am very intrigued with his book. When I get a chance I will try and order it from Amazon.

 

[Novelis]

First of all, we learned more blocks than anything else, and I can see why they're useless - what the teacher says is that for a block to be effective you have to stop it before is bypasses the shoulder - and well, seems to me that it just doesn't work, plus most of the blocks are obviously intended to be used when the strike gets to you.

Force meets force eh? This is a limited teaching indeed.
Stopping a force with force makes the outcome dependant on who has the most force, so for someone who has smaller muscles, yes, blocks are pretty useless, but blocks can work if it absorbs the incoming force. All internal martial arts have different ways, in Tai chi, your whole body moves circularly at an angle to the punch, thereby making his punch go nowhere, then you take his direction further until it becomes extreme and the opponent becomes vulnerable, then at that moment, you use your original circular movement used to neutralise to then strike. Karate has had all of its internal teachings removed and is now an empty shell, but the movements that you learned do have its true expression, which you can discover for yourself if you learn to feel how Qi flows at first in a stationary stance, then in movement. For that reason, I recommend this book:

1856752151
Chi Kung: The Way of Energy
By Lam Kam Chuen

JUST learn the stances in the book; they are ALL you'll ever need. All martial arts use similar stances to begin training, learning martial arts from a book can be dangerous for your health if you don't have the initial understanding learned from these "simple" (They are anything but) stances. The stances presented in this book can't harm you even if done incorrectly.

 

[atreides]

Hi

I agree, reading a book on Chi Kung or any text explaining the beginning stances is universally applicable, you may also luck out and get an energetic explanation.

The downside with Taiji is not the art, but the teachers, Taichi is really the most devastating martial art I have ever encountered, if you can find a video of realy taiji masters going at it, you will see something spectacular, like the matrix. Its generally understood by non karateka that karate or Toudi is like dumbed down white crane/gong fu there are some other influences that aren't necessary to mention. They all kind of draw from similar sources, in the end you get back to a few beginning chinese arts that appear to be mostly fragments of the same martial art.

Really though, it doesn't matter in the beginning which art you pick as all roads will lead to Rome if you follow them long enough, but from a womanly perspective you are better off learning an art created by a woman so Wing Tsun is your best bet because it plays up all the female strengths and you won't need to worry about yin or yang attacks as everything is performed on the center line so polarity isn't as important as speed and agility, and strength isn't necessary because the centerline is weak to force and energetic attack because the conception and governor vessels run along it, so you have access to every organ.

You also won't need to worry about blocking perse as wing tsun is an art of penetration, the closest thing to a block in wing tsun is really more of a deflection proper. Also, wing tsun uses a wooden dummy for training, so that's something you can manage at home and just go through the 116 dummy exercises and regularly visit some seminars to get input. If you really can't study with someone then get some Dan Inosanto DVDs as he is really hands down the best application guy I have seen on video, though he is JKD and not Wing Tsun proper. Oh, and just FYI, go really slow on the dummy excercise, your forearms will thank you. Everyone told me too and I didn't, it sucks spending a week barely able to move your wrists.

 

[Marie]

Thank you very much Atreides and Novelis for your very helpful responses; they made the whole thing a lot less confusing to me.

There are no blocks in Kata or forms, anyone who says differently is either a) Intentionally concealing the truth, or b) more likely doesn't know.

Everything is a strike, or a hold/lock/break.

Hunh. See, the two longest forms we were taught for the yellow belt exam were called "blocking form" 1 and 2. :( Not good.

You just don't see because it is practiced alone, when you add in another person you start to see what is being taught. Also alot of movements in kata are an abstract language.

See we did practice it in pairs, and it did work when the other person "ran with the plan" - when they did precisely the moves they were supposed to do for the purpose of helping us learn the form. But when we were just boxing around, none of these things worked and, well, maybe the blocks can be of some use, but to someone with very good timing and who knows a lot more.

I am not 100% sure what movement you are discussing, as it's been many years since I actively studied karate. You could make a video of the movement if you want and I will see if I know it, maybe I can explain it maybe not.

Sorry, but I don't have the equipment to film. If it's of any interest I can describe it better, but I'm not sure there's even anything to explain. The guy is like a franchisee for a chain MA school with a "mother school" in Quebec City, and it's completely physical-oriented as far as I've seen - so I'm not sure he even knows very much, and obviously my own ignorance doesn't help :P

Also remember that there are at least three levels to every move and explanation, what you tell to kyus, what you tell to pre 4th dans, and then the truth.

Obviously I don't know about that, but it's interesting. It's possible there might be some real wisdom hidden in it, but it seems that karate (or at least the type that's commercial-minded) isn't the straightest path to it (or so I understand anyway).

It sounds like you have had a really bad teacher, weapons and empty hand movements are the same, for instance all of the locks and hand to hand techniques in Aikido are based on sword and counter sword maneuvers. Kali hand to hand is a better example, Arnis as well. Wing Tsun butterfly sword techniques are another example.

Oops, didn't know that. Sounds like I uselessly restricted my options. Will do some more inclusive searches.

That is not a bad idea, I am working on some home study training methods. I will be posting on my www.weirding-way.com site, and maybe some vids on youtoube etc, but am waiting for some supplies to get here, and having the time to set stuff up.

Great idea -I'll be looking out for that too.

I recommend this book:

1856752151
Chi Kung: The Way of Energy
By Lam Kam Chuen

JUST learn the stances in the book; they are ALL you'll ever need. All martial arts use similar stances to begin training, learning martial arts from a book can be dangerous for your health if you don't have the initial understanding learned from these "simple" (They are anything but) stances. The stances presented in this book can't harm you even if done incorrectly.

That's perfect for me - I find I learn a lot better in steps, and I can use a good foundation. I've looked up some of his books on amazon, and with a little bit of luck I can get one soon.

I figure once I know my Chi Kung decently I'll start up on actual MA's; Wing tsun is very attractive to me, and several other things are interesting. I'll look up those Inosanto DVDs - and that thing about going easy on the wooden dummy didn't fall in no deaf ears. :D though, as they say, the future is open.

 

[atreides]

"Hunh. See, the two longest forms we were taught for the yellow belt exam were called "blocking form" 1 and 2. sad Not good."

LOL. If you want to take the time to learn what I consider to be the better explanantion you can go to www.dillman.com and get his videos on the various Katas, or go to one of his Seminars, he does alot of them all over the world.

/Jason

 

[Nathan]

...but from a womanly perspective you are better off learning an art created by a woman so Wing Tsun is your best bet because it plays up all the female strengths
[...]
You also won't need to worry about blocking perse as wing tsun is an art of penetration, the closest thing to a block in wing tsun is really more of a deflection proper.

Yep, that's pretty much the jist of it. A user of the Leung Ting system directs his/her energy towards the vertical axis of the opponent (forward-flowing energy). In Wing Tsun, you advance and attack across the shortest distance, which appears to be an effective response in some situations, but perhaps not in others (such as the "hoodlum and two prince" configuration atreides mentioned earlier in the thread). Whereas in say Karate, if your first punch failed to make contact, you would withdraw that arm and perhaps deliver a second punch or another strike with your arm or leg from the other side of the body, Wing Tsun has a completely different approach. Instead, the Wing Tsun student, when contacting the opponent's arm, maintains pressure towards the vertical centre line and does not withdraw the arm. Both contact and pressure are maintained. The Wing Tsun motto is "If your attack encounters resistance, do not withdraw but stick to your opponent".

Also, one of the reasons why strength is not necessary is because if you meet superior strength, you give way (you learn these reflexive and deformative reactions in Chi-Sao classes). Once these skills are learnt, as soon as your opponent's arm comes into contact with your arm and exerts pressure, the vector (point of attack, magnitude and direction of attack) will cause your arm to deform or react reflexively without any conscious thought on your behalf. Which brings to mind again what Bruce Lee said, "My technique is the technique of my opponent".

As atreides said, Wing Tsun is an act of penetration. Due to the permanent forward pressure that a Wing Tsun student applies, any gap will be invaded. This is a system of self-defence where instead of retreating, the student advances in his or her own defence.

If I could go back and choose what martial arts to study all over again, Wing Tsun would probably be one of my first choices. Of course, if you speak to me a year from now, I would probably have changed my mind again and would suggest another martial art instead! :P

What I am really interested in lately is the psychological forms of combat and confrontation...

I can see why you suggested Systema now (students appear to be taught to become accustomed to stressful situations, such as crowd fights and being surrounded by a circle of people who shove you around, not simply to learn how to fight your way out of it, but initially to reduce the level of fear and paralysis of reactive ability that would occur in such situations).

... we see them everyday, and probably get into a few of them, but I have noticed that some people have a natural ability to just end such conflicts, and am working on that.

This is very curious. What have you observed regarding this ability to end such psychological confrontations? This would be quite interesting to discuss. :)

 

[atreides]

It would be a shame for this thread to end so soon. On another not, I tried to order Dillon's book but alas, amazon told me at the last moment that there weren't any more in stock...oi.

 

[atreides]

I had to add this quote, as I laughed so hard I almost fell out of my chair: "We staunch traditionalists know that appearence is everything. Technique is nowhere near as important as having your pleats straight when you die" -- Steve Gombosi

 

[Ryan]

Great thread!

I was having a conversation inspired by this thread with one of my flatmates who does Tai Chi, and the subject of "dark martial arts" came up, and what might constitute one. Sort of like the "dark side of the Force" as practised by the Sith in the "Star Wars" series, to make a crude and somewhat cheesy analogy I suppose.

Anyway, I suggested we ask the I Ching about it, and we got the Hexagram "Hsien" with moving lines 4 and 6.

31. Hsien / Influence (Wooing)

above TUI THE JOYOUS, LAKE
below KeN KEEPING STILL, MOUNTAIN

The name of the hexagram means "universal," "general," and in a figurative sense "to influence," "to stimulate." The upper trigram is Tui, the Joyous; the lower is Ken, Keeping still. By its persistent, quiet influence, the lower, rigid trigram stimulates the upper, weak trigram, which responds to this stimulation cheerfully and joyously. Ken, the lower trigram, is the youngest son; the upper, Tui, is the youngest daughter. Thus the universal mutual attraction between the sexes is represented. In courtship, the masculine principle must seize the initiative and place itself below the feminine principle.

Just as the first part of book 1 begins with the hexagrams of heaven and earth, the foundations of all that exists, the second part begins with the
hexagrams of courtship and marriage, the foundations of all social relationships.

THE JUDGMENT

Influence. Success.
Perseverance furthers.
To take a maiden to wife brings good fortune.

The weak element is above, the strong below; hence their powers attract each other, so that they unite. This brings about success, for all success depends on the effect of mutual attraction. By keeping still within while experiencing joy without, one can prevent the joy from going to excess and hold it within proper bounds. This is the meaning of the added admonition, "Perseverance furthers," for it is perseverance that makes the difference between seduction and courtship; in the latter the strong man takes a position inferior to that of the weak girl and shows consideration for her. This attraction between affinities is a general law of nature. Heaven and earth attract each other and thus all creatures come into being.

Through such attraction the sage influences men's hearts, and thus the world attains peace. From the attractions they exert we can learn the nature of all beings in heaven and on earth.

THE IMAGE

A lake on the mountain:
The image of influence.
Thus the superior man encourages people to approach him
By his readiness to receive them.

A mountain with a lake on its summit is stimulated by the moisture from the lake. It has this advantage because its summit does not jut out as a peak but is sunken. The image counsels that the mind should be kept humble and free, so that it may remain receptive to good advice. People soon give up counseling a man who thinks that he knows everything better than anyone else.

THE LINES [...]

 

[atreides]

I was having a conversation inspired by this thread with one of my flatmates who does Tai Chi, and the subject of "dark martial arts" came up, and what might constitute one. Sort of like the "dark side of the Force" as practised by the Sith in the "Star Wars" series, to make a crude and somewhat cheesy analogy I suppose.

Yes, it does exist, I won't name names per se, but generally those who actively practice Kyusho/Kiai tend to fall into the black magician category. At least in the more public arena. It doesn't invalidate the amount of info they have, just be careful with it. On the two main sides that are the most apparent you have Kyusho and Systema, Kyusho comes from Dim Mak and Taoism/Buddhism and then you have Systema which comes from Russian Orthodox Christianity (Mouravieff kinda stuff). Both are valid choices, and decent martial arts. However, remember the devil is in the details, that is, the devil likes details so anything detailed is devilish.

 

[wilecoyote]

Have any of you guys tried ninjutsu/ ninpo? The ninjutsu approach to real life situations is different, in that there is an emphasis on practicality.
I was recently at a training session, (my first) and i noticed a lack of floor pads. Upon enquiry, i was informed that in the real world, if you get thrown, or pushed off balance, there is no padding, so it's best to get accustomed to outdoor or indoor plain surfaces. Makes sense to me.

I'm thinking along the lines of taking To-Shin- Do training, which is a derivative of bujinkan ninjustsu, as augmented by Stephen Hayes.
I'm also seriously considering Wing Tsun, cuz i watched a demonstration match between a kickboxer and a wing chun practitioner, and the wing chun practitioner's simple but effective methods of intercepting were worth taking mental note of. (There are other reasons also)

PS. Atreides, you mentioned a system with something related esoterically/philosophically to Castaneda. I came across his "Tensegrity" DVD. Quite interesting, the movements being performed. It is claimed that they are physical manipulations of the body's energy fields.
But on that video, there is a 1hour plus, feature, debunking Castaneda and his writings.

If anyone is interested in the dvd, i downloaded it free in torrent form. So, email me, n i'll be happy to give anyone that torrent for Castaneda's 'Tensegrity'.
(I was surprised to know that there was a system of movements practiced by naguals/seers to manipulate their energy fields, thus allowing them to 'see' more).

 

[Nathan]

I wanted to find out more about the link between Systema and Russian Orthodox Christianity. I found the following at a Russian martial art website:

Source

Philosophy aspects of Systema
There is a reason why Russian Martial Art is called SYSTEMA. It is a complete set of concepts and training components that enhance one’s life. In this case, acquiring the martial art skill is a way to improve the function of all seven physiological systems of the body and all three levels of human abilities the physical, the psychological and the spiritual.

The key principle of the Russian Systema is non-destruction. The goal is to make sure that your training and your attitudes do no damage to the body or the psyche of you or your partners. Systema is designed to create, build and strengthen your body, your psyche, your family and your country.

Systema has another name “poznai sebia" or “Know Yourself". What does it really mean to Understand Yourself? It is not just to know what your strengths and weaknesses are, that is good but fairly superficial. Training in Russian Martial Art is one of the sure ways to see the full extent of our limitations – to see how proud and weak we really are. Systema allows us to gain the true strength of spirit that comes from humility and clarity in seeing the purpose of our life.

As the roots of the Russian Systema are in the Russian Orthodox Christian faith, the belief is that everything that happens to us, good or bad, has only one ultimate purpose. That is to create the best possible conditions for each person to understand himself. Proper training in the Russian Systema carries the same objective – to put every participant into the best possible setting for him to realize as much about himself as he is able to handle at any given moment.

[...]

Orthodox Christianity teaches us that fighting becomes a sin only when there is pride and aggression in it, or if it contains hatred, revenge or callousness, when the causes are greed, vanity, envy, desperation and other such vices. Otherwise, if it is fighting for defense, for rescue – it is a sin not to fight and let your loved ones get hurt or killed or have your country destroyed.

[...]

The ultimate quality that Systema develops in its practitioners is humility. Training in Systema lets the person see his own egotism and other weaknesses and gives him ammunition to overcome them.

[...]

If humility becomes our character, there is no more room for pride, aggression, vanity, greed and envy. Our spirit will always be with God and you will fight only when it is absolutely necessary, only for a noble cause, always causing the least possible damage to the opponents, in a calm, firm, fearless and professional way. We have to do it, otherwise evil will take over.

We can see here the remnants of what was probably once a complete system that most likely correlated with Mouravieff's work, among others.

But as we all know, the "best possible conditions for each person to understand himself" is being exposed to and affected by petty tyrants in their many varieties. It seems we're in the best possible condition right now.

 

[atreides]

Yes, you can see why this art caught my attention, and why I strive to further understand it.