From the Historical Events Database
thread, and speaking above of coins, and below of suspicions, a couple of Charlemagne things came to mind.
The Huns/Avars mentioned in event 2278 could be in year 630 or the same event as in 623 or it could be later and filling my gap. Around 610 Fredegar stops to mention events like eclipses, prodigies, etc. and there are only stories about Frankish elite and elite from other countries (most probably propaganda or maybe made up or maybe redacted history). The book ends with its continuation with young Charlemagne. There are a lot of parts, which you could set to another year easily with just changing a few words. There are gaps (years without any description) and parts where stories from several different years are mentioned. And some of the stories between ca. 610 and Charlemagne looks very suspicious to me. I included them in the database.
Hesitant to add this, yet there is something about coins (and forgeries) over the ages. Here we have a
Likeness of Charlemagne in coins (not saying it is a forgery, however...):
On 09 December 2020, by Caroline Legrand
This extremely rare denier struck in 813-814 features a bust of Emperor Charlemagne. Only 45 coins of any kind bearing his likeness are known.
Aachen, 813-814, denier with the bust of Charlemagne, diam. 1.93 cm (approx. 0.76 in).
Estimate: €15,000
Emperor Charlemagne is featured on this coin’s obverse side. He is facing right, without his legendary flourishing beard but with a moustache and a laurel wreath on his head, in a still very Roman fashion, with the inscription “KAROLUS IMP(erator) AVG(ustus)”. A temple appears on the reverse side, with the words “XPICTIANA RELIGIO” replacing the name of the place where the coin was issued. From 805 most of Charlemagne’s coinage was struck in the imperial palace in Aachen in order to avoid counterfeiting. Since Pepin the Short, the Carolingian kings had abandoned Roman coinage to mint their own currency, but this silver denier was only in circulation for a very short time. It was struck during the last phase of the emperor’s reign, when Charlemagne, who died on January 28, 814, was officially recognized as emperor, entitling him to have his likeness affixed to his coinage, just as his peers in the East did. The temple’s presence indicates that he also held power over the spiritual realm. Specialist Mr. Kluge says this coin was probably struck to mark the crowning of his son Louis the Pious as co-emperor in September 813. Coming from a former French private collection, the point under Charlemagne’s bust sets it apart from those previously known.
His likeness (and no famous beard)? Adorned with a laurel wreath?
There is also that bit about being struck in the imperial palace to "avoid" counterfeiting, which suggests there was counterfeiting; well suppose that is a given, and perhaps this coin was intentionally counterfeited (to impress a memory for a time) or, it was struck earlier and not of Charlemagne at all? Only 45 of them are known?
The coin that "features a bust" seems to be rather hypothetical as far as busts go. You can see a
depiction of a bust of him from 1350, based upon examination of his skull from Aachen's Cathedral.
The
Bust of Charlemagne (
de:
Karlsbüste) is a
reliquary from around 1350 which contains the
top part of
Charlemagne's skull.
[2] The reliquary is part of the treasure kept in the
Aachen Cathedral Treasury. Made in the Mosan region (the valley of the River
Meuse), long a centre of high-quality metalwork, the bust is a masterpiece both of late
Gothic metalwork and of figural
sculpture.
The Bust of Charlemagne, as a masterpiece of
Mosan goldwork, initiated a height of
silver-gilt naturalistic reliquary busts.
[3]
That is an interesting forensic guess, and with a beard to boot and yet not for the coin.
So, the Cathedral in Aachen is said to contain Charlemagne's remains (the initial Cathedral was also said to have been started by Charlemagne in 796, and it was Frederick Barbarossa who canonized him in 1165). The wiki
page states of the chapel:
The construction is credited to
Odo of Metz {
possible Armenian - which further states: "The architect was
Odo of Metz, and the original design was of a domed octagonal inner room enveloped by a 16 sided outer wall.
[4] The span and height of
Charlemagne's
Palatine chapel was unsurpassed north of the
Alps for over two hundred years.} The exact date of completion is unclear; however, a letter from
Alcuin, in 798, states that it was nearing completion, and in 805,
Pope Leo III consecrated the finished chapel.
[4] A foundry was brought to Aachen near the end of the 8th century
and was utilized to cast multiple bronze pieces, from doors and the railings, to the horse and bear statues.
[5][nb 1] Charlemagne was buried in the chapel in 814.
[1] It suffered a large amount of damage in a
Viking raid in 881, and was restored in 983.
Regarding the octagonal design, this was, more or less, a Roman (later borrowed for Byzantine) style under Constantine - see
here and
here, apparently copied over in the above by Odo for Charlemagne's "centre of power." This cathedral was said to have been
consecrated (805) by then Pope Leo III "in honour of the Virgin Mary."
Fulcanelli in "Dwellings of the Philosophers" (first chapter) suggests that the dating of cathedral buildings is an anomaly. So I asked myself if they were much older than one might think. It is enough to observe the Romanesque abbeys, churches and abbeys in France and elsewhere in Europe to realize that they are much more "pagan" than Christian. I am referring here to the symbols inscribed in the stone and not to the various artifacts introduced later. I did the exercise this summer and they are indeed filled with Celtic symbols without any trace of Jesus imagery and they are all dedicated to Our Lady. Have we ever wondered why the name of Jesus is almost totally absent in the names of our old so-called Christian buildings?
Don't know what to think on these buildings, and then there are their foundations being later added upon, too. Somewhat related ("symbols" on stone), had further had a look to the country of Andorra (happened to have been there once) as it, at a point, looked to the
Visigoths and Carolingians: the legend of Charlemagne. Notice something else that was noted when reading up on Andorra, where some of the churches (some old structures
depicted to the VI century), and yet the most interesting, not a church, was what is called
Roc de les Bruixes that shows etchings (symbols) carved on rock, such as what looks like a Kite and Pentacles (there is a YT of the rock
here, and one wonders, due to hidden/wooded location, if there are not yet many more). Of the latter pentacles, it states:
It is the pentacles however which particularly capture one’s attention, and several can be found on the rock. A fascinating discussion of the meanings behind pentacle symbolism in Western rock art (Coimbra, 2011) provides us with some potential interpretations as to their meaning/function. One particular interpretation which Coimbra applies to a site at the Coll de la Font Roja (Caixas, East Pyrenees, France) is of extreme interest, as it describes a pentacle in relation to a ‘figure composed of ten rays with a central cupmark and a kind of tail that may represent a meteor or comet.’ (Coimbra, 2011, 125). This is suggested to be a recording either of an astronomical event, and another carving on the same rock of a rayed figure, although this time with no tail, is interpreted by Abelanet as a solar symbol (1990). On the Roc de Bruixes, one finds three of these ray-like figures, often with pentacles nearby, so could this indeed be a representation either of the sun, astronomical events or perhaps even a form of religious symbolism, seeing as in prehistory we find a close kinship between astronomy and religion?
As is so often the case with rock art, the truth as to the meanings of the carving may never be known concretely. However, comparative studies with
other sites of a similar date such as Val Camonica reveal a curious set of potentially ‘universalist’ symbols that tend towards those above and those below. The need to inscribe representations of ourselves, the world around us, and very possibly the stars,
points towards a common and ancient desire to place ourselves, through art, in a relationship with the cosmos. Linking this into folkloric tales of the supernatural, of witches influencing storms and otherworldly beings appearing in broad moonlight, it is easy to see how sites such as Roc de les Bruixes can become symbols of man’s desire for influence over nature, and for knowledge of his position in the grander scheme of things. Whilst the rock may or may not have featured in genuine acts of witchcraft in the parish Canillo (although it certainly does in its folk memory), it seems very likely
to have occupied a position of importance for observances in the archaic past. For that reason, it is perhaps a blessing that it remains relatively hidden in the deep woods, watching over the valley, accessible only to those who have a knowledge of the land.
Works cited:
Abélanet, J. 1990 ‘Les roches gravées nord catalanes’ in
Terra Nostra 5, 101–209
. Centre d’Etudes Préhistoriques Catalanes, Université de Perpignan, Prada.
Campmajo, P & Crabol, D. 2009. Les gravures rupestres de Cerdagne (Pyrenees Catalanes). Quelques elements pour la chronologies et une approche smbolique. Archeo, Vol. 66, no. 24, 61 – 78.
Campmajo, P & Ferrer i Jane, J. 2010. Le nouveau corpus d’inscriptions Iberiques rupestres de la Cerdagne (1): Premiers resultats. Serta Palaeohispanica J. de Hoz Palaeohispanica 10. 249 – 274.
Canturri, P. 2003.
Els gravats prehistórics de les Valls d’Andorra, in Gonzalez-Perez, J (Ed)
Actes del Ier Congrés Internacional de gravats rupestres i murals : homenatge a Lluís Díez-Coronel. 23- 27 November 1992, Lleida. Institut d’Estudis Iler- dencs, Lleida. 619-634.
Coimbra, F. 2011. ‘The symbolism of the pentagram in West European rock art: A semiotic approach.’ In Papers from the XXIV Valcamonica Symposium.122 – 129. Donwloadable here:
http://www.ccsp.it/web/INFOCCSP/VCS storico/vcs2011pdf/coimbra.pdf
Mas, D. 1977. ‘El Roc de les Bruixes: Noves aportacions als gravats rupestres andorrans’ in Quaderns d’ Estudis Andorrans. No. 2, 5-31
Patlapin, J. Sorcieres et Sorciers dans le Pyrenees: Recits et Legendes. Urrugne: Editions Pimientos.
More (and better!) photos of these carvings can be found here:
NiruDia.com is for sale | HugeDomains
The article dose not fix a date for this rock's carved art, other than being Bronze Age (above article):
The comparison to the carvings found on the ‘Peyro Escrito’ (‘Written Stone’) of Olargues is interesting, these being Bronze Age in date, which helps to place the activity of the Roc de Bruixes in an historical context. Both feature an extensive series of incised lines, radiating lines from a central point, pentacles (rough) and the peculiar ‘hopscotch’ carvings. French archaeologist Pierre Campmajo has proposed that some of the carvings on the Roc de Bruixes may be remnants of an Iberian script, similar to those found in the Cerdanya, and when one examines the carvings studies in the Cerdanya there are certainly some similarities between certain carvings (Campmajo & Ferrer i Jane, 2010). Another site nearer to Andorra is that of Tossal de Cava in the Alt-Urgell region, which has a number of carvings which are extraordinarily similar to those found on Roc de les Bruixes.
As for Tossal de Cava (Alt-Urgell), they do look very similar as can be seen in this
paper, with the point made as follows:
Post-Palaeolithic Filiform Rock Art in Western Europe.
Finally, it was considered that regarding chronology there’s still a lot a work to be done about Post- Palaeolithic filiform rock art. Indeed, there are known examples dating from Late Neolithic, from all the Metal Ages, and even from historical periods, until the Middle Ages and more, reaching some examples the 20th century.
The Andorra
wiki page adds further:
La Balma de la
Margineda {
very interesting Roman bridge}, found by archaeologists at
Sant Julià de Lòria, was settled in 9,500 BC as a passing place between the two sides of the Pyrenees. The seasonal camp was perfectly located for hunting and fishing by the groups of hunter-gatherers from
Ariege and
Segre.
[31]
During the
Neolithic Age, a group of people moved to the
Valley of Madriu (the present-day Natural Parc located in
Escaldes-Engordany declared
UNESCO World Heritage Site) as a permanent camp in 6640 BC. The population of the valley grew cereals, raised domestic livestock, and developed a commercial trade with people from the
Segre and
Occitania.
[32][33]
Other archaeological deposits include the Tombs of
Segudet (
Ordino) and Feixa del Moro (Sant Julià de Lòria), both dated in 4900–4300 BC as an example of the
Urn culture in Andorra.
[32][33] The model of small settlements began to evolve to a complex urbanism during the
Bronze Age.
Metallurgical items of iron, ancient coins, and relicaries can be found in the
ancient sanctuaries scattered around the country.
The sanctuary of
Roc de les Bruixes (
Stone of the Witches) is perhaps the most important archeological complex of this age in Andorra, located in the parish of
Canillo, about the rituals of funerals, ancient scripture and engraved stone
murals.
[34][33]
It might be a big leap to suggest that the Bronze Age date for this rock is incorrect - "regarding chronology there’s still a lot a work to be done," yet the suggested bronze age etchings seem to have survived very well in all that passage of time, with erosion and weathering being what they are), thus could they possible depict something that happened later in time when things went dark?
Further along in time, then there appear to be those oddities of painting in the life of people like Charlemagne in select time periods (elites of the Franks?) - accounted for from surviving texts and decrees, such as being canonized some 350 years later from the date in which it was said Charlemagne had died after commissioning that centre of power.
Don't know how one unravels these odd times when it is known that there were such gaps, forgeries - counterfeiting, while inventing texts that write over history. Coins, rock foundations, etchings and textual inconstancies are all a part of it.
