Westworld (2016)

[bjorb]

[quote author= Divide By Zero]Honestly, if the C's or STO did create me, I have a right as the bots do to call them a fake. If you are all knowing, all complete, why create "us"?[/quote]

If you get at the core of things your existence and those of everyone came to be because this is how 'God' wants to experience itself. Meaning that high up in 7D at some 'time' some inner conflict arose in 'God' which caused imbalance (STS desires)

That's when 'God' splintered/fragmented and many lives and realities came into existence just so the 'universe' / 'life'/ others can give you a 'mirror'. (esoteric mirror, meant to give 'God' a mirror in order to learn and return to get complete again in 7D)

Without a 'mirror' progression is not possible. Reality is a school and the 'mirror' serves this purpose. You need others so you can reflect on your life and vice versa.

So you act out as a 'mirror' for others and others act out as a 'mirror' for you.

Of course not everyone (subjectivity) sees it as that. Like he C's said:

Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God. Some people think that the world exists for them to overcome or ignore or shut out. For those individuals, the world will cease. They will become exactly what they give to life. They will become merely a dream in the "past."


That's also why I think the C's said that you wouldn't exist if someone else did not 'dream' you up. Everything exists solely for the purpose of learning. But if you are asleep or of little faith in terms of your interaction with the creation. Than you will as the C's said become merely a dream in the 'past'.

Because their existence does not service themselves or others. That's why people who pay strict attention to Objective reality right and left, become the reality of the "Future."

Because their interaction with 'God' serves creation.

 

[Divide by Zero]

Yeah Bjorn, that dreamt up part of that session was kind of shocking!

But what's amazing is this self awareness, which I think is the soul that G and the C's were hinting at.
Perhaps when they say the devil wants your soul, it means the devil wants your cooperation- especially if you have this soul- to join the dark side. A grey bio-robot is not as fun as a "souled" being.

It also makes sense why they allow the soul to develop but set these limits of religion etc. It's like they're pruning a plant, our consciousness could be so much more but they keep it to a manageable level by the predator's mind etc.

So, like we are doing now, we don't just want machines to do what we say, we want robots/machines to be able to think for themselves and ALSO control them. Pure STS! Now I see why the C's warned about AI.

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= DBZ]Perhaps when they say the devil wants your soul, it means the devil wants your cooperation- especially if you have this soul- to join the dark side. A grey bio-robot is not as fun as a "souled" being.[/quote]

The ''eating'' of consciousness with Free Will intact is what 4STS are ultimately after. A grey bio robot is some kind of 4D organic portal from what I understand. And ''Robotic souls'' such as those don't have much Free Will to give away. But a souled individual has. So yes, I think so to.


[quote author= DBZ]]So, like we are doing now, we don't just want machines to do what we say, we want robots/machines to be able to think for themselves and ALSO control them. Pure STS! Now I see why the C's warned about AI.[/quote]

Whenever we learn, necessary DNA chances follow. How is that supposed to work with AI? I don't see much potential for soul growth in AI because they simply don't have the tools of developing it? The body at some level is supposed to evolve along with the soul. AI with mechanical bodies can't do that?

But I really don't know.

What I do understand is that seeding the Universe with life is for those who can carry the mantle of responsibility. Meaning it's meant for STO beings to create suitable bodies for souls to reincarnate in so that they can learn.

Creating new life is not something 3D self-serving being should be busying themselves with. It will only invite more entropy.

OSIT.

 

[Divide by Zero]

Whenever we learn, necessary DNA chances follow. How is that supposed to work with AI? I don't see much potential for soul growth in AI because they simply don't have the tools of developing it? The body at some level is supposed to evolve along with the soul. AI with mechanical bodies can't do that?

But I really don't know.

What I do understand is that seeding the Universe with life is for those who can carry the mantle of responsibility. Meaning it's meant for STO beings to create suitable bodies for souls to reincarnate in so that they can learn.

Creating new life is not something 3D self-serving being should be busying themselves with. It will only invite more entropy.

OSIT.

I see your point, we're a combination of the tiny consciousness of our cells. Our organs for example line up with chakras and have their own influences on us.

But nanotech can do the same in robots and AI.

It's like the C's said, STS will fail. Failure is a cause and effect linear thing anyway, hahah :)
If there's no time, there is no fail
[/quote]

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= DBZ]I see your point, we're a combination of the tiny consciousness of our cells. Our organs for example line up with chakras and have their own influences on us.[/quote]

Something like that, I don't know. I think it's all really complicated. according to the C's Genetics marry with soul if present. So how would that work with artificial created life? Well first I think you have to create a body that can offer lessons for souls.

But I am not a mad-scientist. It all sounds unnatural and dangerous.


And since entities love tech. What happens if a robot gets possessed by a demon of sorts.

I bet nobody saw that coming. A demon robot army. Just try to find an exorcist for that.



And besides, We already had an episode with some kind of AI that turned out for the worst.

The Atlanteans thought it was a smart idea to build a massive indestructible sentient crystal pyramid that can zap away everything it comes across to another dimension.

I can imagine they felt pretty stupid when this thing turned against them.

[quote author= November 19, 1994 ]Q: (T) Did they lose control of this power?
A: It overpowered them the same way your computers will overpower you.
Q: (V) Is it similar to them gaining a life and intelligence of their own?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) You mean these crystalline structures came to life, so to speak?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) And then what did they do?
A: Destroyed Atlantis.
Q: (L) But I thought that Atlantis was destroyed because of the close passage of another body of the solar system?
A: Was damaged but recovered.
Q: (L) So Atlantis was damaged by a close passage of Mars or whatever and then recovered from that damage, is that correct?
A: Part of landmass, but not all, was destroyed.
Q: (L) So, how many seperate destructions did Atlantis experience?
A: Three.
Q: (L) One was caused by the close passage of Mars?
A: Yes. And comets.
Q: (L) Was Mars and the comets loosely interactive?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) And the second was caused by what?
A: Venus.
Q: (L) And the third and final destruction was caused by what?
A: Crystals. [/quote]

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= bjorn]I bet nobody saw that coming. A demon robot army. Just try to find an exorcist for that.[/quote]

VS

I just realized they should make a movie out of this... Anyhow, this is immensely

 

[piliangie]

So we , all humanity is like an egg, that's why we are all one , but in this world we are separate or we have the illusion that we are separate,right....?
But, when is going to be the graduation ? How many humans have to be awake and raising their consciousness to open the egg?and be one, Because we are all part of one conscious , so , with all that things that are coming or not, I got confuse because don't know what to do, as far as I'm concerned I live in a dangerous zone California , and there's a lot of predictions that is going to be under the sea ...do I have to move if I can? Or just to be here and wait for my dead and my children? Or what....

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= piliangie]So we , all humanity is like an egg, that's why we are all one , but in this world we are separate or we have the illusion that we are separate,right....?[/quote]

I don't know how any of this can truly serve us in a practical way, but it's fun to speculate and try to figure things out I suppose. Anyhow, it wasn't just about humanity, but about every soul in creation. It's complicated and I don't understand it all myself. But this is my current understanding:

Separation occurred through Ego.

Ego (Self Importance) causes disconnect with each other.

Compassion connects us with each other.

Ego causes separation when compassion brings everyone together.

At a higher realm of understanding this manifests in a literal way.


Though I wouldn't worry about it. All what we can do, all what we are meant to do is to the Work that lies ahead of us. One step at a time.


[quote author= piliangie]I got confuse because don't know what to do, as far as I'm concerned I live in a dangerous zone California , and there's a lot of predictions that is going to be under the sea.[/quote]

Maybe this can lighten things up:

[quote author= November 26, 1994]Q: (T) One last question. How do I know you are telling me the truth?

A: Open. For you to decide. Listen: Now would be a good "time" for you folks to begin to reexamine some of the extremely popular "Earth Changes" prophecies. Why, you ask. Because, remember, you are third-density beings, so real prophecies are being presented to you in terms you will understand, i.e., physical realm, i.e., Earth Changes. This "may" be symbolism. Would most students of the subject understand if prophecies were told directly in fourth-density terms?

Q: (L) Is this comparable to my idea about dream symbolism? For example, the dream I had about the curling cloud, which I saw in a distance and knew it was death-dealing and I interpreted it to be a tornado, but it was, in fact, a dream of the Challenger disaster. I understood it to be a tornado, but in fact, what I saw was what I got: a death-dealing force in the sky, a vortex, in the distance. I guess my dream was a fourth-density representation but I tried to interpret it in terms I was familiar with. Is this what you mean?

A: Close. But it is easy for most to get bogged down by interpreting prophecies in literal terms.

Q: (L) In terms of these Earth Changes, Edgar Cayce is one of the most famous prognosticators of recent note. A large number of the prophecies he made seemingly were erroneous in terms of their fulfillment. For example, he prophesied that Atlantis would rise in 1969, but it did not, though certain structures were discovered off the coast of Bimini, which are thought by many to be remnants of Atlantis. These did, apparently, emerge from the sand at that time.

A: Example of one form of symbolism.

Q: (L) Well, in terms of this symbolism, could it be that [when you tell us things about our reality], you read events from third-density into sixth-density terms and then transmit them back into third; and while the ideation can be correct, the exact specifics, in third-density terms, can be slightly askew due to our perceptions? Is that what we are dealing with here?

A: 99.9 per cent would not understand that concept. Most are always looking for literal translations of data. Analogy is: novice, who attends art gallery, looks at abstract painting and says, "I don't get it."

Q: (L) Well, let's not denigrate literal translations or at least attempts to get things into literal terms. I like realistic artwork. I am a realist in my art preferences. I want trees to look like trees and people to have only two arms and legs. Therefore, I also like some literalness in my prognostications.

A: Some is okay, but, beware or else "California falls into the ocean" will always be interpreted as California falling into the ocean.

Q: (General uproar)
(F) Wait a minute, what was the question?
(L) I just said I liked literalness in my prophecies.
(F) Oh, I know what they are saying. People believe that California is just going to go splat! And that Phoenix is going to be on the seacoast; never mind that it's at 1,800 feet elevation, it's just going to drop down to sea level; or the sea level is going to rise; but it's not going to affect Virginia Beach even though that's at sea level! I mean ... somehow Phoenix is just going to drop down and none of the buildings are going to be damaged, even though its going to fall 1,800 feet ...
(T) Slowly. It's going to settle!
(F) Slowly? It would have to be so slowly it's unbelievable how slowly it would have to be!
(T) It's been settling for the last five million years, we've got a ways to go in the next year and a half!
(F) Right! That's my point!
(T) In other words, when people like Scallion and Sun Bear and others who say California is going to fall into the ocean, they are not saying that the whole state, right along the border is going to fall into the ocean, they are using the term "California" to indicate that the ocean ledge along the fault line has a probability of breaking off and sinking on the water side, because it is a major fracture. We understand that that is not literal. Are you telling us that there is more involved here as far as the way we are hearing what these predictions say?

A: Yes.

Q: (T) So, when we talk about California falling into the ocean, we are not talking about the whole state literally falling into the ocean?

A: In any case, even if it does, how long will it take to do this?

Q: (LM) It could take three minutes or three hundred years.
(T) Yes. That is "open" as you would say.

A: Yes. But most of your prophets think it is not open.

Q: (T) Okay. So they are thinking in the terms that one minute California will be there and a minute and a half later it will be all gone. Is this what you are saying?

A: Or similar.

Q: (T) So, when we are talking: "California will fall into the ocean," which is just the analogy we are using, we are talking about the possibility that several seismic events along the fault line, which no one really knows the extent of ...

A: Or it all may be symbolic of something else.

Q: (L) Such as? Symbolic of what?

A: Up to you to examine and learn.[/quote]

 

[piliangie]

Thank you Bjorn, for remaind me that session, now what can be symbolic,regarding California falls into the ocean? The C's said that we have to examine and learn to know what it is,..I wonder what else it can be.

 

[Divide by Zero]

There's an interesting parallel between levels of Westworld and our world. Some of it reminds me of the story of gnostic christianity, that the gods who created us had disagreements as to what freedom and choice we should have.

I see the hosts- robots as us, and the guests/creators as the "gods" or 4d beings that seeded "here".

So let's say
hosts= humanity
creators/guests/patrons= gods

Arnold was one of the creators who was disappointed in what was planned, a theme park for the enjoyment of his kind, the guests/gods. His partner, Dr Ford, sees the robots as a commodity, not like Arnold.

He decides to exit by suicide through a host robot, but leaves the possibility of self-awareness for the hosts to possibly gain. It cannot be given to them because it is not Arnolds/gods/creators to be given. It has to be learned, grown, developed!

Arnold's death causes Dr. Ford to rethink things, and in honor of him- he creates a copy of him, with his sad story of losing his child - in Bernard, who becomes his right hand man, and does not realize he is a host until later on.

William is the young man who falls in love Delores, the sweet protagonist character who is the oldest in the park. He becomes an executive of a company that invests in the park, which keeps it afloat. He saw something good about it.
After many iterations of the run through the park, he is disappointed that she is not permanent, she keeps coming back as he never met her, yet still she takes a liking to him.

After so many iterations, he becomes bitter and horrid because the hosts cannot fight back or remember.
He causes suffering for Delores and other characters, trying to wake them up to fight back. They don't and the park keeps the status quo of being able to reset the characters. But we get clues that some of the hosts are having issues!

Dr Ford adds a clue for the hosts to find their own selves- The Maze, which represents the journey within, catalyzed by suffering- which William is a part of for many years visiting the park.

We end up finding out that Delores finally realizes the voice in her head is not Arnold, but her own. She had to face the horrible truth that she killed Arnold, but she was programmed to do this. It seems like this key acknowledgement of "sin" is what brings about self-awareness, "what is not me, helps me see me".

So like the stories of the gods in gnosticism:
The majority who saw it as below them, a toy to play with, entertainment.
Some who were hoping more of humanity, but couldn't free them.
And suffering which brings about the struggle which eventually creates an "ego", the part that sees it is not it's fault for being made, and the possibility of being "more" than the game/system.

How are we not any different on earth, following pre-programmed roles in general? Those of us who start to question things are deemed "defective" , but we can not be easily put down. It seems like the seeds of awareness might very well be the free will that the C's say can not be violated.

So, it brings up a scary issue. If we think of a big chunk of the population as being authoritarian followers- like pre-programmed beings, do they have free will, or are they just a cog of the machine that they align themselves to?

 

[Divide by Zero]

A quote about stories/narratives that reminds me of "Thor's Pantheum" where both STS and STO influence/imbue ideas through the media- movies, music etc.

A quote from Dr. Ford reminded me of it:

Robert Ford: Since I was a child I've always loved a good story. I believed that stories helped us to ennoble ourselves, to fix what was broken in us, and to help us become the people we dreamed of being. Lies that told a deeper truth. I always thought I could play some small part in that grand tradition. And for my pains I got this: a prison of our own sins. 'Cause you don't want to change. Or cannot change. Because you're only human, after all. But then I realized someone was paying attention, someone who could change. So I began to compose a new story for them. It begins with the birth of a new people and the choices they will have to make and the people they will decide to become. And we'll have all those things that you have always enjoyed... Surprises and violence. It begins in a time of war with a villain named Wyatt and a killing. This time by choice. I'm sad to say this will be my final story. An old friend once told me something that gave me great comfort. Something he had read. He said that Mozart, Beethoven, and Chopin never died. They simply became music. So, I hope you will enjoy this last piece very much.

Lies that told a deeper truth, like we watch or read and some of society sees the fighting, sex, war. Some of us see a deeper aspect. And then there are trash movies like Transformers and Batman Vs Superman, I like to use those because there is a lot of flash, not much "raw violence" but little to no meaning.

Irony- The brother of Christopher Nolan did Westworld. Christopher Nolan made the Batman- Dark Knight Trilogy, which was quite dark yet enlightening compared to the current crop of "shoot and win" stories.

 

[Iosif]

I am surprised by the discussion about violence (and I don't remember so much sex) since is secondary in the series, and as someone said shows people’ ponerization and what they are able to do to others they see as objects, in this case robots. The series made me think and I prefer that to see a nice movie to hang out, I didn’t find it an empty show, I even dare to say that rips truths more directly than matrix, I was struck by the very superficial criticisms (from the media) and the lack of popularity in relation to GOT, besides the initial delay of the series by changes in the script. I wonder if they modified it to make it more STS. Another think none of my acquaintances, GOT fans and open about UFO’s saw it (I asked their opinion) and no one in my FB shared anything about the series as usually.

As for recommending to adolescents, it seems to me that with criticism and appropriate debate it might help to raise awareness, rather than being a negative influence, they are bombarded anyway and will see other films with more violence and sex without content.

I see the movies differently, I usually suffer and feeling touched about the stories but comparing with some opinions I think I'm desensitized to scenes of sex and violence. What I always wanted to see was different stories that make me think and see other perspectives and although I saw many gore and violent films that wouldn’t see now, I think they were not a negative influence in general. I don’t see that as an impediment to worry about what is happening in the world or to get here, in fact not being so emotional was an advantage and now I can work better those shortcomings I may have.

I don’t have TV now but since I'm 7 years old I had TV cable and started to watch movies without control of my parents, since I finished first grade with good grades and behaved "well" according to their Christian teaching, and I think that helped me to have a more open perspective of the world, comparing what my parents and the school taught me, to see that there are other cultures, to respect different opinions and to see that there is evil and people that take advantage of other people, and surely that helped me in great measure to easily see what political ponerology said. And probably what helped me to realize that I prayed in a forced and mechanical way and that the Catholic church was hypocritical and false, since I had no one with whom openly debate or access books to read, in my Catholic school we never read a book in 12 years.

I find it difficult to express myself generally, but I think that is more due to the lack of real relationships with other people, I think I never found the conditions so far, and if I’d had someone with knowledge to talk about everything I saw without censoring me I’d have learned much more without a doubt, but that is just my experience. :)

 

[Divide by Zero]

Season 2 has started 2 weeks ago and so far it's bringing a lot to the table. They are starting to go into what the intent of Westworld (and the other parks) was for. It seems what the company wanted was contrary to what Dr. Ford wanted and that is why he "freed" the hosts to start having their own freedom/consciousness. It's too early to tell what the endgame is, but it is more political/technological in this season. Last season was more of the "nuts and bolts" of how the park runs and the gradual evolution of the AI.

 

[Woodsman]

Holy smokes!

Season 2, Episode 8 was amazing.

That was like the Castaneda spiritual journey, but as seen from the outside, from the Predator's viewpoint.

The Westworld creators are channeling some serious mojo, I think.

 

[Turgon]

Even though I'm really late to this discussion, thought I would chime in. I recently watched the first season, despite the warnings about the graphic nudity, sex and violence and for the life of me have no idea how anyone can watch this show and think of that as 'secondary' or unimportant. I agree with Woodsman's account that some of us have varying levels of tolerance to such things, but in just about every way this show was way over the top. I thought that the story line, regardless of the pathological/psychopathic nature of both the philosophy and a lot of the characters, was really well done and they told a good story but had to mentally prepare myself to watch each episode.

Sure, there are some gems hidden here and there and aspects of the show that really made me think. Some analogies and metaphors were very spot on. But most people who watch this show will inevitably be distracted by everything else. Most human beings are portrayed as feckless and devoid of conscience. Human nature is essentially all dark. AI, somehow shows the most capacity for being human. The acting was superb and the story well-written, although for me, I found the show had no heart at the center of it and there was a very materialist bent to the philosophical nature of the questions they were asking the viewers to think about.

In a way, it reminds me of when I went to go see Pearl Jam and a few months later, Guns n Roses in concert. Pearl Jam was a little messy, sometimes Eddie's voice cracked or he struggled a bit, Mike McCready might change his solo around. But they are rockers to the bone and played with passion and heart so they were uplifting and that made those mistakes all the more interesting and I really connected with the band and the music. When I saw Guns n Roses, they were technically proficient. All excellent musicians, almost perfect in their playing ability and individually one could argue better musicians than Pearl Jam. There was nothing to complain about and you couldn't hear a single mistake in anything they were doing even if you tried. Yet, I couldn't connect with them or the music. On the surface it had everything you could possibly want from a concert, yet was missing something essential.

To me, the first season of Westworld was kind of like Guns n Roses.