What do you do to "wake up"?

[Niall]

I set my alarm clock

teehee :)

I remember the Wave and think, 'My goodness, what a fantastic opportunity!' The inner voice quickly follows up with, 'Yes, and comets are coming' ... my pace immediately quickens

 

[Lan8r]

Reading the 'Signs of The Times'. That is my alarm clock!

What helps to wake me up is to be reminded on a continuous basis the terror of the situation. The Signs Of The Times page (SOTT= Seekers Of The Truth) is very helpful here because every time I read it I’m shocked into being reminded that what I see in my everyday life is a lie and this shock helps me to see just how asleep I am and how I am a prisoner, and how often I forget that I am a prisoner.

(I couldn't say it better)

And this Forum and it's members who reinforce those shocks because it is so easy to write them off. To say to myself, and to believe that it must be that something is wrong with me, I must be crazy.

2. What exactly makes one person decide to wake up and choose a different chair, and another person not?

I wonder about this myself. I know for me, that as far back as I can remember, I have not been happy with my chair/the river of general law. I have spent the majority of my life wasting my energy by fighting the current. (and still being swept away by it). Finally, It appears that I am able to get a glance at the other chair/the other river, to finally know that it exists.

The realization of the difficulty and the work involved in getting to it are sometimes overwhelming. If it were not for the 'wake up call', the shock of being reminded of the 'terror of the situation' everyday, I might be drowned by the flow of general law.

Thank you SOTT team for shining a light on the path of the Seekers of the Truth.

 

[Nienna]

2. What exactly makes one person decide to wake up and choose a different chair, and another person not? I mean, and I've tried, one can show the Signs page to anyone and a lot of people still won't respond, or respond uncomfortably, or respond postively, seem to be shocked, but then never follow up on it.

This is something that is very hard for those of us who do see the need to wake up to understand. But, from my experience with people who are given a nudge to see if they want to wake up or stay asleep, they are just not ready to wake up yet. It is not their time.

We all have lessons to learn. And until we are ready to find the path to lead us onto the Way, we just won't even know it exists. And just like we cannot see into 4D, the people who are not ready cannot see, nor do they even want to see, that there is a whole other way of seeing things than how they are seeing them.

That's why it is so important not to try to burst the illusion that another person is living in. They just aren't ready yet.

At least that's the way it seems to me.

 

[kenlee]

1. What exactly does he mean by talk with a friend? I missed this point on first reading the passage. Does he mean just to literally network and shoot ideas off of someone, or does he have something different (perhaps more introspective?) in mind?

Interesting question but I don't really know. Always keep in mind that when Gurdjieff was quoted it would sometimes be that what he said was directed to a certain person in a specific situation. So what he said might be more of a specific statement to a certain individual more so then a general statement that applies to all. I always keep this in mind when reading about what he was quoted as saying to others especially when reading Views From The Real World.

In that book in the chapter 'When Speaking Of Different Subjects' there is also this:

http://www.kesdjan.com/exercises/ask.html

Ask Yourself
(From Gurdjieff's "Views from the Real World," pp. 56-59)

The more a man studies the obstacles and deceptions which lie in wait for him at every step in this realm, the more convinced he becomes that it is impossible to travel the path of self-development on the chance instructions of chance people, or the kind of information culled from reading and casual talk.

At the same time he gradually sees more clearly--first a feeble glimmer, then the clear light of truth which has illumined mankind throughout the ages. The beginnings of initiation are lost in the darkness of time, where the long chain of epochs unfolds. Great cultures and civilizations loom up, dimly arising from cults and mysteries, ever changing, disappearing and reappearing.

The Great Knowledge is handed on in succession from age to age, from people to people, from race to race. The great centers of initiation in India, Assyria, Egypt, Greece, illumine the world with a bright light. The revered names of the great initiates, the living bearers of the truth, are handed on reverently from generation to generation. Truth is fixed by means of symbolical writings and legends and is transmitted to the mass of people for preservation in the form of customs and ceremonies, in oral traditions, in memorials, in sacred art through the invisible quality in dance, music, sculpture and various rituals. It is communicated openly after a definite trial to those who seek it and is preserved by oral transmission in the chain of those who know. After a certain time has elapsed, the centers of initiation die out one after another, and the ancient knowledge departs through underground channels into the deep, hiding from the eyes of the seekers.

The bearers of this knowledge also hide, becoming unknown to those around them, but they do not cease to exist. From time to time separate streams break through to the surface, showing that somewhere deep down in the interior, even in our day, there flows the powerful ancient stream of true knowledge of being.

To break through to this stream, to find it--this is the task and the aim of the search; for, having found it, a man can entrust himself boldly to the way by which he intends to go; then there only remains "to know" in order "to be" and 'to do." On this way a man will not be entirely alone; at difficult moments he will receive support and guidance, for all who follow this way are connected by an uninterrupted chain.

Perhaps the only positive result of all wanderings in the winding paths and tracks of occult research will be that, if a man preserves the capacity for sound judgment and thought, he will evolve that special faculty of discrimination which can be called flair. He will discard the ways of psychopathy and error and will persistently search for true ways. And here, as in self-knowledge, the principle which I have already quoted holds good: "In order to do, it is necessary to know; but in order to know, it is necessary to find out how to know."

To a man who is searching with all his being, with all his inner self, comes the unfailing conviction that to find out how to know in order to do is possible only by finding a guide with experience and knowledge, who will take on his spiritual guidance and become his teacher.

And it is here that a man's flair is more important than anywhere else. He chooses a guide for himself. It is of course an indispensable condition that he choose as a guide a man who knows, or else all meaning of choice is lost. Who can tell where a guide who does not know may lead a man?

Every seeker dreams of a guide who knows, dreams about him but seldom asks himself objectively and sincerely--is he worthy of being guided? Is he ready to follow the way?

Go out one clear starlit night to some open space and look up at the sky, at those millions of worlds over your head. Remember that perhaps on each one of them swarm billions of beings, similar to you or perhaps superior to you in their organization. Look at the Milky Way. The earth cannot even be called a grain of sand in this infinity. It dissolves and vanishes, and with it, you. Where are you? And is what you want simply madness?

Before all these worlds ask yourself what are your aims and hopes, your intentions and means of fulfilling them, the demands that may be made upon you and your preparedness to meet them.

A long and difficult journey is before you; you are preparing for a strange and unknown land. The way is infinitely long. You do not know if rest will be possible on the way nor where it will be possible. You should be prepared for the worst. Take all the necessities for the journey with you.

Try to forget nothing, for afterwards it will be too late and there will be no time to go back for what has been forgotten, to rectify the mistake. Weigh up your strength. Is it sufficient for the whole journey? How soon can you start?

Remember that if you spend longer on the way you will need to carry proportionately more supplies, and this will delay you further both on the way and in your preparations for it. Yet every minute is precious. Once having decided to go, there is no use wasting time.

Do not reckon on trying to come back. This experiment may cost you very dear. The guide undertakes only to take you there and, if you wish to turn back, he is not obliged to return with you. You will be left to yourself, and woe to you if you weaken or forget the way--you will never get back. And even if you remember the way, the question still remains--will you return safe and sound? For many unpleasantnesses await the lonely traveler who is not familiar with the way and the customs which prevail there. Bear in mind that your sight has the property of presenting distant objects as though they were near. Beguiled by the nearness of the aim toward which you strive, blinded by its beauty and ignorant of the measure of your own strength, you will not notice the obstacles on the way; you will not see the numerous ditches across the path. In a green meadow covered with luxuriant flowers, in the thick grass, a deep precipice is hidden. It is very easy to stumble and fall over it if your eyes are not concentrated on the step you are taking.

Do not forget to concentrate all your attention on the nearest sector of the way--do not concern yourself about far aims if you do not wish to fall over the precipice.

Yet do not forget your aim. Remember it the whole time and keep up in yourself an active endeavor toward it, so as not to lose the right direction. And once you have started, be observant; what you have passed through remains behind and will not appear again; so if you fail to notice it at the time, you never will notice it.

Do not be overcurious nor waste time on things that attract your attention but are not worth it. Time is precious and should not be wasted on things which have no direct relation to your aim.

Remember where you are and why you are here.

Do not protect yourselves and remember that no effort is made in vain.

And now you can set out on the way.

 

[mada85]

1. What exactly does he mean by talk with a friend? I missed this point on first reading the passage. Does he mean just to literally network and shoot ideas off of someone, or does he have something different (perhaps more introspective?) in mind?

First, I think we need to define what is meant by ‘friend’.

1. A person whose company, interests, and attitudes one finds sympathetic and to whom one is not closely related.
2. Somebody or something not hostile; an ally.
3. Somebody or something that favours or encourages something.
Penguin English Dictionary

‘Friend’ seems to have appeared in English about 1175, derived from the Old English word freon, freogan to free, love; and Gothic frijon to love.
Chambers Dictionary of Etymology

There is a constellation of words from which ‘friend’ is derived, all with meanings of to love, to free, to woo, and so on.

This immediately gives us an idea of what G might be talking about.

I think he’s talking about inner and outer friends. For example, I have friends who are interested in spirituality, and new age-type things, but who think that Gurdjieff is too difficult to understand. Thinking deeply about this question, and in light of all the information in this site about psychopathy, psychological deviants, narcissism and so on, I think one has to be careful how much of oneself one entrusts to people. Looking before leaping.

And what if a suitable friend is not available to discuss these things with? In one’s inner world, becoming one’s own friend I think is very important. So G is also I think saying that we should discuss with ourselves, arguing and considering all sides. Three forces would then be present – two sides of the argument and the third, our consciousness. Personally I find writing to be very helpful with this.

 

[Niall]

What exactly does he mean by talk with a friend? I missed this point on first reading the passage. Does he mean just to literally network and shoot ideas off of someone, or does he have something different (perhaps more introspective?) in mind?

I think he means to talk with another who is aware of, or seeking, the Way and who suffers similarly through efforts. Now in his time, that meant talking to a friend 'in person' to one degree or another, as he (probably?) would not of conceived of a virtual network of talkers through an electronic medium like this.

I am blessed with having met another seeker 'in real life'. The quality of company and love/light that we share is dazzling, reassuring and already I can see how the individual's efforts are multiplied in a manner that makes us 'greater than the sum of' two person's efforts. The Chateau in France must be absolutely electric in this regard!

 

[noise]

D Rusak wrote: What exactly does he mean by talk with a friend?

Maybe someone who can act as a mirror? Got alot of thoughts on this. Perhaps a person of A influences who has started to notice something starts seeking a person of B influence? Through a great bit of struggle person A adapts and becomes a person of B influence and begins seeking C influences.

A friend, in my mind (which should not be mistaken as 'knowing'), would be someone who loves you and would not intentionally deceive you, but give you honest answers or their view of you back. A friend is someone who can be trusted.

 

[Nević Nenad]

Excuse me, this post may be with a bitter tone but I must write this.

What exactly does he mean by talk with a friend?

Can someone really don’t know what this means? Don’t know what is a friend? And I think that someone who asks that don’t know, otherwise he will not be asking such question. Don’t have real friends to talk? That’s immposible.Why thinking that “Talk with a friend" means something strange, esoteric, something “Big". Maybe it really means “go and talk with your best friend, pal, mate" tell him your thoughts, share your life, love and all yours with him/her, no matter is it male, female, or you are gay or straight or whatever, friend is a friend.

And if someone really think so much about what that means…..I dare to say that person is on clouds, popping popcorns and playing smart, and obviously not doing any work.And obviously read Gurdjijev’s books like it is some books of charms, magic, rituals, I don’t know what . . . The main purpose of any book is to make us to think, not to “follow" them.

Why it always must be so “smart and intellectual" and then common thing like talking to friends sounds so strange? But how can someone even start some work on self and then asking him/herself such rubbish? I think (I am maybe wrong) but that is something to reconsider.

All work is for nothing if we don’t know how to make friends, how to be open, how to choose whom to trust, and trust real people and how to accept them as equal to ourselves. It’s not all in dodging aliens, strange forces, and influences. Our friends are ourselves (not literally). Our trust to someone depends on us, not that someone.

 

[Rich]

What exactly does he mean by talk with a friend?

Can someone really don’t know what this means? Don’t know what is a friend? And I think that someone who asks that don’t know, otherwise he will not be asking such question. Don’t have real friends to talk? That’s immposible.Why thinking that “Talk with a friend" means something strange, esoteric, something “Big". Maybe it really means “go and talk with your best friend, pal, mate" tell him your thoughts, share your life, love and all yours with him/her, no matter is it male, female, or you are gay or straight or whatever, friend is a friend.

Hi Avala. it does seem obvious on the face of it. we all have friends don't we? but in this instance I would agree with Starsailor:

I think he means to talk with another who is aware of, or seeking, the Way and who suffers similarly through efforts. Now in his time, that meant talking to a friend 'in person' to one degree or another, as he (probably?) would not of conceived of a virtual network of talkers through an electronic medium like this.

from my own experience since reading suggested books from QFS, daily SOTT and gaining a greater awareness of the bigger picture: when I have conversations with the people who I used to consider friends I find that I am constantly battling against their own narrow world view, ego's, pride and sacred cows. It is as if i see them in a different light, the relationships, banter, jokes and circumstances we had in common and brought us together, now seem to hit me like bricks of ignorance. When you realise that you cannot have an objective and reasoned discussion about 'work' concepts with any single person you know, have known or are related to, one may begin to glean a clearer understanding Gurdjiefs teachings on sacrifice, amongst other things. OSIT

 

[mada85]

Can someone really don’t know what this means? Don’t know what is a friend? And I think that someone who asks that don’t know, otherwise he will not be asking such question. Don’t have real friends to talk? That’s immposible.Why thinking that “Talk with a friend" means something strange, esoteric, something “Big". Maybe it really means “go and talk with your best friend, pal, mate" tell him your thoughts, share your life, love and all yours with him/her, no matter is it male, female, or you are gay or straight or whatever, friend is a friend.

In my experience, all friends are not equal. I have found that the more I explore, read and understand the work on this site - Gurdjieff, Lobaczewski, and so on - the less that friends understand what I am talking about, even those who I always considered to be intelligent and interested in self-awareness. This leads me to an understanding of external considering. One has to be careful what one says to the great majority of people, because at any moment, an apparently normal, sane human being can become an agent of the Matrix, or they simply switch off and go to sleep. In either case, one is wasting energy.

Don’t have real friends to talk? That’s immposible.

That’s not impossible, not by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, the people that were once considered to be ‘real friends’ can be revealed as merely acquaintances when one looks deeper and starts to open oneself and discuss the real world.

For instance, Barbara Hort’s book, Unholy Hungers, discusses the inter-personal feeding dynamic. If, after reading her work, you realise that persons previously considered friends are actually feeding agents of the Matrix, what are you to do? Continue to be open, trusting and revealing, and provide energetic Matrix-food? Or create the ‘strategic enclosure’ within oneself and just play the game? I have found that such friendships often fall away as part of the natural process of waking up. Indeed, work on the self is quite a lonely business, simply because the vast majority of people have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. In that case, ‘tell him your thoughts, share your life, love and all yours with him/her, no matter is it male, female, or you are gay or straight or whatever, friend is a friend’ is simply a waste of energy when undertaken with people who have no understanding. It is sometimes better to remain silent.

 

[Nević Nenad]

Rich,Mada I agry with both of you and I will quote starsailor too.

I am blessed with having met another seeker 'in real life'. The quality of company and love/light that we share is dazzling, reassuring and already I can see how the individual's efforts are multiplied in a manner that makes us 'greater than the sum of' two person's efforts. The Chateau in France must be absolutely electric in this regard!

And seems that I am myself blessed with having met more then one seeker, every one of them at different level of knowledge and understanding, but it seems that we all are going in the same direction.Begining with my father, talking to me in my very early age about universe, stars, parallel worlds, and as I grew up things were presented to me in more and more serious level.I am recently beginning to realize that “presenting" was not at all accidental and not done simply by “flow of life" (Not thinking of “indigo" people and such shiny bull) And indeed when few of us are in same place and time it is “electric" and strange.

I am trying to say that I maybe have more luck then you with friends and that maybe I really cant understand you, but I understand that the knowledge can be utilized even in a way of finding friends.At the end it is here to be utilized in life, not just to be known.And there is also possibility that I am not aware of my petty tyrants, unholy hungers and that I really don’t know what I am talking about.

For instance, Barbara Hort’s book, Unholy Hungers, discusses the inter-personal feeding dynamic. If, after reading her work, you realise that persons previously considered friends are actually feeding agents of the Matrix, what are you to do? Continue to be open, trusting and revealing, and provide energetic Matrix-food? Or create the ‘strategic enclosure’ within oneself and just play the game? I have found that such friendships often fall away as part of the natural process of waking up. Indeed, work on the self is quite a lonely business, simply because the vast majority of people have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. In that case, ‘tell him your thoughts, share your life, love and all yours with him/her, no matter is it male, female, or you are gay or straight or whatever, friend is a friend’ is simply a waste of energy when undertaken with people who have no understanding. It is sometimes better to remain silent.

You really don’t share your thoughts and love to vast majority of people, and why you are bothered by that vast majority at all?But if someone utilize knowledge gained by work on him/herself that is not so lonely bussines then, and I think that finding friends and recognition and talk with real friends are some sort of utilization, and it helps personal grow a great deal.More closer friend the more help they can give .Even on this forum, like we are talking now in this way.I really think that work on ourselves must lead to awareness not closeness.

 

[Renaissance]

You really don’t share your thoughts and love to vast majority of people, and why you are bothered by that vast majority at all?

While I don't share my deepest thoughts and feelings with most, if not all people in my world, it's differnt from not loving them. I think it comes from love that I've learned to not do so. It's been difficult and painful to see that those I cherish don't want to see the world as it is. I've tried to share everything I've learned to different people I thought might be interested. But what always turns out to be the case is either I am doing it out of self importance or from some lack of knowledge about them. If someone doesn't want to see reality, it's not helpful to put them in a position that will fill their life with more unnecessary suffering which will make their life more difficult.

If you are lucky enough to find yourself with people who willingly seek out and undergo conscious suffering (meaning to debug the harmful programs we've become addicted to) it is curious that this would cause negative emotions to rise in you from reading that many other forum members do not have such real life relationships.

And if someone really think so much about what that means…..I dare to say that person is on clouds, popping popcorns and playing smart, and obviously not doing any work.And obviously read Gurdjijev’s books like it is some books of charms, magic, rituals, I don’t know what . . . The main purpose of any book is to make us to think, not to “follow" them.

It appears to me what you are saying above is contradictory. Should people think of the meaning of things or not? It also appears that you have quite a sacred cow about friendship - your statements indicate you believe friendship should not be questioned. Having sacred cows isn't the main danger, imo, but it is not wanting to question them that does so much damage. Unwillingness to question our perception is also what has caused the difficulty many have faced in having intimate friendships. or so I think.

 

[Nević Nenad]

I see that I must be more carefull with my English, not native English speaker so some sentences could have other meaning then I though, sorry, mea culpa. I have meant something more like this: (and I hope I done it better now)

Now you really don’t want to share your thoughts and love to vast majority of people.Why you are bothered by that vast majority at all?

Shane I am agreed with your first sentences into the single word.And again my not enough knowledge of English maybe is to blame for my as appears negative emotions, I will try to choose words more wisely.That is not negative emotions but I am more like amazed why someone don’t use knowledge gained with work on him/herself and some people obviously have it (or they just sounds like to have it)

When one have some knowledge about world, and as I understand that is one of the goal of self work.That person must utilize it in life.Otherwise that knowledge and work have no any value.How we can utilize it in this thing with friends? I see it very simple, if we now know about energetic “vampires" , influences . . . we know how to recognize it, but in that case wouldn’t we also have more ability to recognize people of real value (so to speak) who maybe can understand us? That means finding real friend is easier now, maybe choise is much smaller but quality is greater.I am aware that my simplified view can be of no real value also, but that is my curent level of awareness (so to speak,again).
Somehow I have a feel from some posts that work on self leads to clossenes and making fences around person, I think its about awareness, and awareness has a little to do with clossenes (in this I mean clossenes like being closed (like closed doors) not to be close to someone (near someone?) I mean it like be behind the fence)

People should (depends of choice) think about meaning of thing of course, but not get lost in that things, not get lost in details, and then not be able to see the whole image.G’s books, and like any other book are not magic formulas, they are very simple guidance to thinking, as i see it.Dont see need for seeking double deeper meaning in every sentence, sometimes there is need for that, but I don’t think in every little bit is a deeper meaning.

Do you think there is a more deep,hidden meaning in this already deep enough thought?

This you cannot do alone, you must call on a friend who can help you—everyone can help—but especially two friends can help each other to revalue their values.

Maybe friendship is my sacred cow, to say its not would be so non objective, but I am willing to question it, and trying to do that often.Or so I think.

 

[Niall]

Why it always must be so “smart and intellectual" and then common thing like talking to friends sounds so strange? But how can someone even start some work on self and then asking him/herself such rubbish?

The work has taught me the opposite: question everything. Sure, do not become obsessed on the Way. Note, observe, constate, wherever and whenever possible, then move along with grace.

I am more like amazed why someone don’t use knowledge gained with work on him/herself and some people obviously have it (or they just sounds like to have it*)

*You have anyone in mind when you wrote this?

Not sure I understand you here. You are amazed why someone wouldn't use knowledge gained with work on him/herself? Why? I can think of a million reasons why I would not act on 'knowledge gained'. Variously they come under temptation, distraction, hypnosis (ie falling back asleep), etc. But that would be for me to consider, that would be my work :) Gurdjieff has a term for what you're guilty of here – wrong external consideration. It's not your work to consider whether another's work is being correctly applied or not. Strive to better understand your own machine and its workings, not how well or otherwise another might be struggling with their machine.

I see it very simple, if we now know about energetic “vampires" , influences . . . we know how to recognize it, but in that case wouldn’t we also have more ability to recognize people of real value (so to speak) who maybe can understand us?

Perhaps this is the case for you now. From where I am now, I too have enhanced ability to “recognise people of real value (so to speak) who can maybe understand me.�

But let me tell you, when I found the Path of Access through Cassiopaea and (nearly) literally woke up overnight to discover that my apparently enriching and enthralling life was a sticky feeding web of connivance and pity plays (myself very much involved in the dynamic), one of the first things I began to 'see' was that many of the people I was living with, studying at university with, partying-hard with, amongst them my inseperable best-friend, whom I called brother, were in fact, sometimes consciously, but most often not, playing out many different roles under the title of 'friend'. A person who was a 'friend' of mine one minute could disgust me with a flagrant breach of trust the next. Faced with the sheer hypocritical ugliness of it all (again, myself very much included), I knew I had to get out. Wasn't easy. One of the dwelling thoughts that impeded time and again was, “But no! These are my friends. They're here to help me in the world, not hold me down.�

People should (depends of choice) think about meaning of thing of course, but not get lost in that things, not get lost in details, and then not be able to see the whole image.

Depends on the context. If one doesn't have the whole image to begin with – or worse, is contentedly deluded by an illusory image with no niggling doubts to interrupt their slumber and provide flashes of B influences with which to begin to work for one's destiny – then it is crucial, imperative even, that s/he painstakingly analyse the devil in the details.

So, it may be a given for some of us that we 'know who our friends are', and by extension, innately know what a 'friend' is. But from my own experiences, I was shocked to discover that my friends were in fact fiends.

Ok, sure, it's only a minor detail: what's in one little r eh?

Everything, it transpires. I was forced to totally transform my conception of 'friend'. A very rewarding exercise and one I can heartily recommend. Knowledge Protects.

 

[anart]

That is not negative emotions but I am more like amazed why someone don’t use knowledge gained with work on him/herself and some people obviously have it (or they just sounds like to have it)

When one have some knowledge about world, and as I understand that is one of the goal of self work.That person must utilize it in life.Otherwise that knowledge and work have no any value.

It might help to remember something the C's mentioned :

A: Because an STS vehicle does not learn to be an STO candidate by determining the needs of another.

It is not our place to consider what is best for others - what they should be doing, what they should work to understand or what the best way is for them to go about awakening. It does seem to be our job to determine this for ourselves, however this must be preceded by an enormous amount of work removing those parts of ourselves that are not our real selves. There is so much work before each and every one of us - wholly within and on ourselves - that we have no reason to determine what it is others should or should not be doing.

How we can utilize it in this thing with friends? I see it very simple, if we now know about energetic “vampires" , influences . . . we know how to recognize it, but in that case wouldn’t we also have more ability to recognize people of real value (so to speak) who maybe can understand us? That means finding real friend is easier now, maybe choise is much smaller but quality is greater.I am aware that my simplified view can be of no real value also, but that is my curent level of awareness (so to speak,again).

I think, to an extent, this is true - no one can do this alone - one must work with and through a network of like minded people who you literally trust your life with to guide you and provide objective mirrors to help you when you fall off track for one of a million different reasons. Unfortunately, part of the design of this 'matrix' in which we live is that we simply are not surrounded by such like minded people in our everyday life. If we think we are -especially at the beginning of the Work - we are dreaming and deluding ourselves.

Somehow I have a feel from some posts that work on self leads to clossenes and making fences around person, I think its about awareness, and awareness has a little to do with clossenes (in this I mean clossenes like being closed (like closed doors) not to be close to someone (near someone?) I mean it like be behind the fence)

Again, from one perspective this may seem to be the case - but building a strategic enclosure for your real self means removing and protecting yourself from those people around you who are asleep -who will drain you through no conscious effort of their own - we are food, Avala - and everyone in your life, until you truly begin to wake up - not dream that you are waking up - and even after you begin to wake up - is most likely there to keep you asleep - make no mistake about that. Do you really think that you can tell if anyone around you is awake or not? Do you really think that you can tell if you are awake or just dreaming that you are awakening?

One detail you seem to have not brought up is that once a person actually finds a like minded network, their life changes (well, my life changed) - and I am less alone and less closed off and fenced in than I ever imagined I would be.

People should (depends of choice) think about meaning of thing of course, but not get lost in that things, not get lost in details, and then not be able to see the whole image.G’s books, and like any other book are not magic formulas, they are very simple guidance to thinking, as i see it.Dont see need for seeking double deeper meaning in every sentence, sometimes there is need for that, but I don’t think in every little bit is a deeper meaning.

Do you think there is a more deep,hidden meaning in this already deep enough thought?

I think I see your point, and, yes, often people run off in wild circles creating entire universes of variations and interpretations of certain material -that is almost always the mis-use of one of the 'centers' - most often usurping sexual energy to the intellect or emotional energy. There is a certain truth in understanding that G's writings are simply a guideline - unless this understanding is a buffer that keeps what he has presented in the realm of some sort of theoretical possibility.

It is not theoretical -it is not a possibility -it is the 'reality' in which we live - we are machines - until we work as if our souls depend on it (and they do) to become unlike machines -we are machines -and the vast, vast majority of humanity will never be anything other than a machine. G gives clues, hints and clear instructions on how to become 'not a machine' - on how to extract oneself from the 'matrix' and this is - at least from my perspective -a bit more than just 'deep thought'.

This you cannot do alone, you must call on a friend who can help you—everyone can help—but especially two friends can help each other to revalue their values.

Maybe friendship is my sacred cow, to say its not would be so non objective, but I am willing to question it, and trying to do that often.Or so I think.

It's true - no one can do this alone - but - one must be very careful to not get into a situation where it is the blind leading the blind - dreaming one is awakening and that one's friends are awakening is still dreaming - it is still sleep. fwiw.