What exactly is 5D?

[Loire]

From all the C's information, there is just this particular one which is still causing many confusion in my mind: the exact nature of the 5 th density and the beings living in it. I have been searching the forum for quite sometimes as well as many of Laura's articles (the waves series and others) to find a clue out of this dilemna but so far I haven't found a clear and satisfying explanation about that.

If I understood better, according to the C's, 5D is a region where all souls (1D, 2D, 3D, 4D) go for the recycling while awaiting their next incarnation into a physical body. This imply that souls over there are only in a contemplative state, without any specific active learning experience. Can we then conclude that 5D is a world of ghosts? If so then how can a ghost learn anything? I don't know if anyone here has come across a name called Kamaloka, which is supposedly a section within the astral world where souls backwardly re-live the experiences of their lives, while feeling all the pains and pleasures they had or have caused to others since the day they died till the day they were born. Can that idea of Kamaloka be approximated to 5D reality?

Assuming it is so, then how do the C's say that people such as Jesus, Mary, and many more are 5D souls reincarnating into 3D if souls there are only in a state of contemplation? Suppose I (a 3D soul) dies and go to 5D, then do I automatically become higher or more powerful than an incarnate 4D soul? I do not wish to compare notes, but I am just curious to notice that Ra has defined 5D as a specific desity of its own like any other, and that 5D is the last density of expression for STS entities, which means that 5D STS are higher in the chain of command than 4D STS (and actually control them). Ra also indicated that Jesus was a 4D STO wanderer, not a 5D one, and that at that time (1982) he was still learning his 5D lessons, which means he was not a 6D soul yet as the C's have said some twelve years later.

I would really love to get this 5D confusion out of my mind so I can be able to comprehend things more clearly and proceed much faster. That is why I will appreciate any help in that regard.

Thanks.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Not sure I can answer your question, Loire, as the issue isn't exactly one where there are a lot of facts to call on. Densities are highly speculative and all we really have to go on is what the Cs say about them, and how those statements match up with things we CAN analyze: data from personal experience, hypnosis, paranormal research, etc. But these threads may be of some use to you:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,25903.0.html
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=23332.0
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=14006.0

I also remember a post made by Laura some years ago on the subject that I found helpful at the time, but my searches have been futile so far...

That said, to answer some of your questions, I don't think it's safe to conclude that 5D is a "world of ghosts". Ghosts are probably something else entirely. Given what has been said of 5D, I think perhaps it is more of a way station where souls of different 'grades' go between lesson plans. A 3D soul in 5D is still a 3D soul.

 

[durabone]

Also, I have been curious about this as well. Both Helen Blavatsky and Phyllos describe something called "Devachan." The theosophist's description comes off as somewhat negative (given my cursory readings of her massive work), whereas Phyllos depicts a place where souls cycle to after death where they live in a world of their own making, including their projections of people they knew while materially incarnate. Souls do not interact with each other per se, but rather with their own hopes, fears, and creations. I have been wondering if there is connection with the C's ever since I first heard of "5D." Thanks Loire!

 

[Minas Tirith]

Hello Loire,

do you have the Casssessions downloaded on your computer? The search for "5th" for example gives you a lot of results. I regularly look up terms there and it was always helpful.

If I understood better, according to the C's, 5D is a region where all souls (1D, 2D, 3D, 4D) go for the recycling while awaiting their next incarnation into a physical body. This imply that souls over there are only in a contemplative state, without any specific active learning experience.

Maybe not active, as in running around incarnated and falling down and standing up again, but can you not learn a lot (even more) in a contemplative state? Reflecting upon your last lifetime(s), maybe exchanging with others what went wrong or right?

(Session 9/12/98)

A: Entrance into 5th density.
Q: (C) What is that like?
A: Well, what do you think it is like, my dear?
Q: (C) Well if I say what I think it is like, then I am presupposing.
A: No, not necessarily.
Q: (L) When you are in 5th density, are you merged with your various soul essences so that you can perceive all of your
extensions into other realities at different points in 'space-time,' and are you in...
A: That would be quite a kick in the butt, do you not think?
Q: (L) In what sense? You once said that when you are in 5th density that you are in a condition of 'timeless understanding.'
A: Yes.
Q: (L) And that you see and perceive in this timeless understanding condition, like a state of pure consciousness. Is that so?
A: Close.
Q: (L) Do you feel happiness, do you feel... well, I guess feel is the wrong term because you don't have anything to feel with...
A: Full range of emotional responses in profound clarity.
Q: (L) Would one say that being at 5th density was a pleasant experience, or just an intense one?
A: Intense, but not as you would imagine this.
Q: (C) I assume that it is intense without the negative aspects, that it would be good...
A: No. Negativity, yes that is there, but there is not the underlying fear of physiological damage that one perceives in third density
due to genetic body response through hormonal brain swarms.
Q: (C) Okay, so what does one do in everyday life once one has become adjusted to 5th density?
A: "Everyday life" does not apply.
Q: (C) Take it as a term. (L) In other words, what does one do in 5th density? (C) Yeah, what is one's activity?
A: Consider it a sort of timeless pondering learning.
Q: (C) Do different people learn different things?
A: Of course, according to one's karmic resonance profile.
Q: (C) What is the mechanism of learning?
A: Natural attractive growth balance.
Q: (L) I guess it is just a finding of balance. (C) So, it is not a mental learning that we do here, but a sort of consciousness
absorbing. Kind of like what we would like to do here, sleep on a book and absorb it? (L) Is that a good analogy?
A: No.
Q: (L) Help us out here. I liked it!
A: Well, Laura, picture a 5 dimensional screen.
Q: (L) I can't. I can't picture anything 5 dimensional.
A: Okay, then now you know what we are up against in the explanatory mode here!
Q: (C) But it is a sort of automatic transmission? (L) Or automatic function?
A: The interesting thing is the timelessness. This is why very recently "departed" souls are often "seen" by their loved ones,
imparting incredible knowledge. There have even been cases where two souls were involved in 3rd density traumas together, and
one instructs the other to go back, as it "is not your time yet."
(...)
Q: (L) When S. had her cardiac arrest. It was 20 minutes before the paramedics got there, so she was brain dead even when they
revived her and put her on life support. I was at the hospital talking to her and trying to bring her back. I gave her Reiki and
everything. So, we decided to ask if we could communicate with her and the C's said they would have to step aside for us to talk
to her. We talked to her, and it was a very convincing conversation. But, at the time we were talking to her, she said something
about a radio station and news in New Zealand and that we would hear soon and something about 'don't hurt the young girl!' She
told me several things that convinced me that it was really her that we were communicating with, even though her body was still
technically alive down at the hospital on total life support. I asked her if she was going to come back and she said no. I asked her
why, and she said that she was having too much fun and when was the last time I remembered her to have fun, which was the truth.
I asked her what it was like there. She told me that it was like a school. I asked what she was learning and she said that there was
no way to explain and she could not tell me, but that we are in a certain class when we are in the body and a different one when
out. As it turned out, we heard the next day about the lunatic in New Zealand who was shooting up all those people in
Christchurch, and it was happening at the exact time that we were conversing with her and this was her reference to someone
hurting a little girl. As I understand it, there was a little girl hiding behind a tree. So, she could SEE this business going on in New
Zealand at the same time she was talking to us. She exclaimed about it even. It was a bizarre little conversation.

I find the word "school" interesting, that you are in a "class", that there is a "screen" where you see maybe (past) events happen ...

Can we then conclude that 5D is a world of ghosts? If so then how can a ghost learn anything?

A soul is not a ghost. The soul is you and if "you" learn, it is your soul, not your incarnated body, as I understand. I am not sure how the Cs describe ghosts, only found this:

(Session 1/13/96)

All events leave permanent imprints upon aural energy fields.
This explains, for example, some sightings and apparitions. "Ghosts" are sometimes merely spontaneous activations of the aural
records of the natural surroundings.

In other sources I have read that ghosts were at the time of their death not able to make the jump to 5th, so to say, since there are/were material things in 3rd that keep/kept them there, so they kind of float around not being in 3rd anymore and not being able to get to 5th, but I dunno if that doesn't sound too much like "Ghostwhisperer".

Suppose I (a 3D soul) dies and go to 5D, then do I automatically become higher or more powerful than an incarnate 4D soul?

I don"t think 5D has something to do with higher or powerful. It has to be a "higher" density than 4th though, because also 4th density goes there.

This might help:
(Session 6/22/96)

Q: (L) Tonight, I would like to ask about 5th density. How does the "dividing line" between the 4 physical densities and 5th
function?
A: Recycling zone, one must have direct contact in perfect balance with those on 6th density in order to fulfill the need for
contemplation/learning phase while in between incarnations of 1st through 4th densities.
Q: (L) When a person finishes all their experiences on 1st through 4th density, do they then remain at 5th for a period before to
moving to 6th.
A: Yes.
Q: (L) When you die in 3rd and go to 5th, do you pass through or see 4th?
A: No.
Q: (L) When you are in 5th density, is part of your service to be a guide? Are there two kinds of beings on 5th: those who are there
for the recycling, and those whose level it simply IS?
A: No. All are as one in timeless understanding of all there is.
Q: (L) If, at 5th density a person has timeless understanding, what is it about them that determines that they will "recycle" as
opposed to moving to 6th from 5th?
A: Contemplation reveals needed destiny.
Q: (L) So, being united with other beings on 5th, you come to some sort of understanding about your lessons....
A: Balanced. And this, my dear, is another example of gravity as the binder of all creation... "The Great Equalizer!"

So from 6th on you do not go anymore to 5th, but everybody else has to pass through there in between incarnations, maybe because physicality is involved?

I do not wish to compare notes, but I am just curious to notice that Ra has defined 5D as a specific desity of its own like any other, and that 5D is the last density of expression for STS entities, which means that 5D STS are higher in the chain of command than 4D STS (and actually control them). Ra also indicated that Jesus was a 4D STO wanderer, not a 5D one, and that at that time (1982) he was still learning his 5D lessons, which means he was not a 6D soul yet as the C's have said some twelve years later.

This is indeed confusing, but it would be interesting to know if beings from 4th in 5th are still divided in STS and STO? And how would that manifest?

EmmeYa

 

[Zadius Sky]

Can we then conclude that 5D is a world of ghosts? If so then how can a ghost learn anything?

My understanding of "ghosts" could be earthbound spirits and/or "imprint recordings."

I also remember a post made by Laura some years ago on the subject that I found helpful at the time, but my searches have been futile so far...

I've just searched through all of Laura's posts by using terms, "5D" or "5th." Here's a couple (but not sure if any of these are what you were thinking of):

From: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,10654.msg76068.html#msg76068

Does a soul go to the 5th density after a suicide?

As we understand things at present, that is most likely; assuming you are talking about an individuated soul. There are other aspects to the problem, however, such as being "earthbound" and possibly that an individual does not have an individuated soul, but is merely a fragment of a larger soul complex.

From: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,16276.msg140130.html#msg140130

I think if we lose, and die and go to 5th density

Anytime you die, from this level of existence, you go directly to 5D.

Actually, that is not entirely the case. There is a host of individuals who have died who don't go to 5D because they are earthbound and suffering. That may be the problem that Forge is thinking about. Those who are earthbound and "between a rock and a hard place." Imagine a world where there is so much in the way of lies and confusion that huge numbers of souls get caught up in the lies and are unable to move to 5D as would be normal?

From: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,22347

If our souls reside in 5th density between incarnations, then aren't we all 5th density souls?

Yeah, you would think that. But there is also the concept that souls graduate to a 5th density "guide" status and are not obligated to reincarnate but can do so for a mission if they choose.

I also saw this quote by Michael Topper on 5th Density subject as posted by Laura in this thread: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,1256. It may or may be relevant.

Taking the Fifth

The current-intensification and coordinate alignment of 5th density is accelerated to a power sufficiently comprehensive as to change the character of "spiritual seeking" for both positive and negative beings, and establish it on a different basis. Whereas 4th density was involved in the intensive effort of energy-acquisition and consequent "boost" (as if realization were an asymptote curving toward the focus of a Horizon subtly displaced by the margin of Planck's constant from perfect resolution), 5th density comprises a kind of discontinuity that suggests a true crossing of the Abyss.

In 5th density the basis of spiritual realization changes, with an abrupt jump as if recognizing the psychic energy-lanes of 4th density "travel" as a simple cul-de-sac. Here one should do a double-take, and consult the Castaneda book The Eagle's Gift, those who believe Castaneda to be a pseudo shamanic storyteller should soberly compare the description given by Don Juan of the path taken by the early sorcerers of his tradition, of how at the critical threshold of the Eagle's spiritual Aerie they suddenly realized that all the strategy of their energy-acquisition came to naught-that they'd been barking up the wrong metaphorical tree so that a discontinuous transformation of Being was called for, independent of any of their feed-in paths of identification.

Though here the Ra material has progressively less to say, initiated thought would have you understand that a minimal threshold level of coherence has been accomplished up to this point to stabilize the currents, universalize and integrate the subconscious energy-complexes in congruence with the conscious axis so as to allow the basic force of identity to be fixed between the coordinates of Balance. The value of identity itself henceforth, from 5th density onward, becomes the key and all Creative patterns are understood in its whole and moveless light .

At the level of mind-body integral coherence and threshold intensification required for the basic transference of operative Principles at 5th density, the factor of attention is less significantly subject to variable "openings" through the inviting void-potential of ducts and psychic wormholes (proffering deep dimensions of energy-nutriment in exchange for caretakership and cultivation-or, in the case of the negative being, exploitation and plunder). The instrument of attention (which functions largely as the "periscope" of awareness) has settled into close correspondence with the basic, quickened force of whole-value identity established as the universal locus or common denominator in the convergence of compositional coordinates distinctly resolved as a powerfully intensified and stable Void-point .

In the form of the universal, convergent void point, the value of Identity constitutes a kind of equivalency-by-identification with the axial model of "vehicularized" life or bodily-being altogether. Identity has not been lifted gently from between the coordinates of Balance as it is in 6th density (or in the 6th stage of realization belonging to the higher adepts incarnate in 3rd density); it is fixed as the radial locus of all polarized terms, harmonized in a global resolution of self-adjusting Equilibration. Identity functions then at 5th-density level as the apotheosis of Limit; as such it is identified with and as the creative principle Itself, for all the teeming universes of creativity spring in the first place from the prototypal power of the Illimitable to accommodate the apparent "antithesis" of limitation .

Therefore, 5th density is the spiritual-light zone of learning for "embodied" beings who work directly with and through the creative patterns of Mind, the whole-point value of void Identity serving as the unerring, always-conscious resolving Principle of each formulated pattern furnishing the optimum axis of Balance.

The positively-polarized being of 5th density acknowledges the constituted character of the resultant, equilibrated void-point of Identity deposited as the central spiritual "residue" of self-cancelling coordinate extremes, thereby assuming the orientation of service toward the constituting Whole without center or delimiting circumference; the negative being of 5th density accepts that universal convergence in self-cancelling centrism as indication of the way in which all things are constituted to serve its Identity, upsurging as the common "product" of all cross-correlation and synthesis .

Thus both positive and negative beings of 5th density tend to "remain in place", and from that point of rest in Identity through the creative light zones emanate archetypal patterns as a kind of co-creative function to be adapted according to the interpretive terms of the lower densities and planes, as causative Influence. The positive beings project patterns of the creative archetypes that tend to promote harmony and peace, the negative beings project patterns that serve to tailor the astral and physical forms of conflict, disease and discordance .

Thus the soul-complex does not "travel" any longer as it did in 4th density, nor does it seek in that sense ever again, but only practices the alignment of all creative patterns in congruence with the self-evident, standout Value of Identity clearly furnishing the common term of all dimensional coordinates .

The 5th density is indeed the density corresponding (in "embodied" or soul-concentrate form) to the Macrocosmic Heaven-realm of the Creative Itself. Here all the cosmic patterns of expression in their potential dimensionality and variable, compound focal-alignments shimmer like a great crystal, an illimitable metacosmic Jewel. It is from this level, reflected into the spiritualized Mind of 3rd-density being through the consciousness of a 5th-stage master (the realized stages of 3rd density "embodied spiritual masters" correspond, by resonant harmonics, to the like-numbered densities), that we receive the lustrous descriptions of the Buddha realms, the Taoist Mountains and myriad Transformation Bodies, the infinite creative scapes of "jeweled pavilions" and "strung pearl nets" multiplied endlessly in mirrored reflection through each of their incomparable facets etc.

There is a glossary on Cassiopedia to which I can add here (in case if anyone have not read that page):

5th Density

This term is used by the Cassiopaeans to denote a non-physical state of being where entities that incarnate in 1st thru 4th densities exist between incarnations. This is also called a recycling zone.

Ra describes this as the first non-physical density or the density of wisdom, the first where thought can create reality without being bounded by material restrictions.

In reading Cassiopaea transcripts, it seems that we need to distinguish between occupying 5th density as a between lives stage from being a 5th density soul. The latter would mean one which had graduated from 4th density and no longer would incarnate there.

The subject is beyond our means of direct knowing. We can however make some general inferences on the nature of this and compare this with other material on reincarnation and afterlife.

Incarnation into a density which corresponds to a soul's general level of development is a necessary means for progress. Only incarnation may teach certain indispensable lessons. We find this idea largely across the board, from Cassiopaea to Steiner.

Ra explains experience as consisting of equal parts of space/time and time/space. Space/time corresponds to incarnate life, with motion in space and no control on the flow of time. Time/space corresponds to between lives contemplation, with free motion in time but no means of affecting space, so at least for 3rd density souls.

Steiner explains the between lives state or astral world as being based on thought in the same manner as the physical world is based on matter. Time for the incarnate beings flows forward, time for the beings between lives flows in the opposite direction. Generally, Steiner sees spirit as guiding the present from the future, whereas matter reaches for the future from the past. Each moment of consciousness is thus a meeting of these two streams. Steiner describes in detail how a sort of mirroring of the past life occurs in the astral world, where one gets to see the self from the outside, through the eyes of all one has interacted with.

The Cassiopaeans describe 5th density as timeless, thus each between incarnations state is concurrent with every other such state. The contemplation may be instantaneous or eternal, depending on viewpoint. Fifth density may be a sort of showroom of all which may be possible, but realizing these possibilities for one's edification needs to be done from the density that is appropriate to the lesson.

Distance between beings, or experiences of beings, would be a question of pure thought, where similarity measures distance. Thus, a being that is very fragmented or contradictory, i.e. is dissimilar with itself, may not even be recognizable as the same entity. So we could speak of a timeline of incarnations, simply measuring the similarity between each between-incarnations state, so that successive ones are closer together than ones separated by much change of the soul.

We have some relatively independent accounts of near-death experiences, many of which involve cessation of brain functioning, which we may compare with descriptions of a between lives state. What seems to be a common feature is that near-death experiences correspond to the near-deceased person's system of beliefs. There are for example many accounts of meeting Jesus. There are some common features such as going to a light or passing through a tunnel.

It may be that the mind structures the experience around familiar concepts. It may also be that this state is as Steiner describes it, such that knowing of something brings one closer to that which is known, i.e. the metric of distance is informational similarity. Thus one ends up in the company of those one lived with, which is often reported in near-death experiences and would explain the often proposed idea that people repeatedly incarnate as teams. One's degree of spiritual cohesiveness 'after' each incarnation would influence how much work or learning or planning can take place between lives. Thus in cases we may have an entirely mechanical law of karma, in other cases more or less intentional life plans.

fwiw.

 

[Loire]

Thank you all for your insightful replies. I did some further digging from the references you have posted and I can say that they were helpful because I am beginning to make some clarity on the matter.
What I like about these kind of subjects is that they continually challenge you to keep searching instead of feeding yourself with assumptions.

Q: (L) Help us out here. I liked it!
A: Well, Laura, picture a 5 dimensional screen.
Q: (L) I can't. I can't picture anything 5 dimensional.
A: Okay, then now you know what we are up against in the explanatory mode here!

LOL, I am always fascinated with the C's gift of verb! That one sentence highlighted in bold almost explains the entire reason why we find certain hyperdimensional concepts so confusing from our 3D ventage point. We actually seem like dogs curious to know and decipher the complexity of advanced calculus.

That is why I now realize that sometimes the best thing to do is to just humbly accept our current limitations and only do what is essential for the benefit of our spiritual development. Trying to understand every bit of details about higher realities can at best be an exercise of futility, or at worst it can even lead the seeker to madness. This I guess is the danger that most of us who are attracted to metaphysic and paranormal have to overcome.

 

[Minas Tirith]

That is why I now realize that sometimes the best thing to do is to just humbly accept our current limitations and only do what is essential for the benefit of our spiritual development. Trying to understand every bit of details about higher realities can at best be an exercise of futility, or at worst it can even lead the seeker to madness. This I guess is the danger that most of us who are attracted to metaphysic and paranormal have to overcome.

Glad that the thread helped you a bit.

The positively-polarized being of 5th density acknowledges the constituted character of the resultant, equilibrated void-point of Identity deposited as the central spiritual "residue" of self-cancelling coordinate extremes, thereby assuming the orientation of service toward the constituting Whole without center or delimiting circumference; the negative being of 5th density accepts that universal convergence in self-cancelling centrism as indication of the way in which all things are constituted to serve its Identity, upsurging as the common "product" of all cross-correlation and synthesis .

Thus both positive and negative beings of 5th density tend to "remain in place", and from that point of rest in Identity through the creative light zones emanate archetypal patterns as a kind of co-creative function to be adapted according to the interpretive terms of the lower densities and planes, as causative Influence. The positive beings project patterns of the creative archetypes that tend to promote harmony and peace, the negative beings project patterns that serve to tailor the astral and physical forms of conflict, disease and discordance .

Thus the soul-complex does not "travel" any longer as it did in 4th density, nor does it seek in that sense ever again, but only practices the alignment of all creative patterns in congruence with the self-evident, standout Value of Identity clearly furnishing the common term of all dimensional coordinates.

This somehow also answers my question about the STO/STS beings of 4th density on 5th. But doesn't that imply that from 4th on our soul carries the STO/STS imprint?
Also I am not sure how to understand the bolded part. Does that mean that beings/sould from 5th can influence us directly?

EmmeYa

 

[Graalsword]

If our souls reside in 5th density between incarnations, then aren't we all 5th density souls?

Yeah, you would think that. But there is also the concept that souls graduate to a 5th density "guide" status and are not obligated to reincarnate but can do so for a mission if they choose.

This is close to my understanding of it. That besides the 'between incarnation' thing, there is some kind of graduating from 4D to 5D, where those souls spend some time there (as 5D souls) with the possibility of going back to 1D to 4D at will to serve as guides, before graduating to 6D. Maybe that was the case of the Christs.

 

[Deleted member 8431]

I do not wish to compare notes, but I am just curious to notice that Ra has defined 5D as a specific desity of its own like any other, and that 5D is the last density of expression for STS entities, which means that 5D STS are higher in the chain of command than 4D STS (and actually control them).

The C's have said that 4D is the last density where STS entities can fully manifest - not 5D. STS require physicality and 5D is non-physical (aether/consciousness as opposed to matter/energy).

As far as I understand what the C's have said, STS exists in higher planes but it is merely a mirror of the STO principle for the purpose of balancing (sorry for my lack of vocabulary).

Hope it helps.

 

[Sirius]

The C's have said that 4D is the last density where STS entities can fully manifest - not 5D. STS require physicality and 5D is non-physical (aether/consciousness as opposed to matter/energy).

As far as I understand what the C's have said, STS exists in higher planes but it is merely a mirror of the STO principle for the purpose of balancing (sorry for my lack of vocabulary).

As far as I understand it … Full STS manifestation is possible due to availability of physicality in 4D in such a way that it is longer a barrier to will and action but a tool. This doesn't exclude the possibility of manifesting STS in non-physical environments at least in part or to some extent. There is also STS in 3D but not in full manifestation because living in 3D matter includes too many restrictions. In this sense, 4D is merely a peak of STS manifestation but neither the end nor the beginning. There may be STS in 5D (also according to Ra) but lacks the possibility of directly utilising matter. Entities there must rely on thought. The Cs said that 6D was the first density without any physicality at all, not 5D. In 5D, physicality and matter could exist as mental content, that is entities are still attached to and concerned with a physical world. They may look at it, contemplate about it, and change the slides at will. So physicality is there, however, interacted with from another standpoint (time/space in Ra words). The Cs also mentioned 5D STS (e.g. in connection with STS bases). Your last statements refers to 6D. According to the Ra material, the STS path ceases in 6D, not prior to that density.

That's at least my line of thought.

 

[Soluna]

Q: (L) Do you feel happiness, do you feel... well, I guess feel is the wrong term because you don't have anything to feel with...
A: Full range of emotional responses in profound clarity.
Q: (L) Would one say that being at 5th density was a pleasant experience, or just an intense one?
A: Intense, but not as you would imagine this.
Q: (C) I assume that it is intense without the negative aspects, that it would be good...
A: No. Negativity, yes that is there, but there is not the underlying fear of physiological damage that one perceives in third density
due to genetic body response through hormonal brain swarms.
Q: (C) Okay, so what does one do in everyday life once one has become adjusted to 5th density?
A: "Everyday life" does not apply.

Quoted from above.

It occurred to me when reading this that many of our negative emotional responses are tied to survival instincts - and I imagine survival is a very 'physical' response or concern, as it is the 'body' that is trying to survive, not necessarily the soul - as that may continue after.

For example, fear is usually a tool for self preservation, as is pain.

So examining experiences from a dis-incarnate 5D perspective, would have the benefit of not having to 'worry' about looking after a body, and perhaps deciding whether the soul 'needed' to go through life in another to learn more lessons? I suppose 'time' being what it is... and isn't... could possibly mean that that soul could choose any point in our understanding of 'linear' time at which to incarnate and learn more lessons within another body.

It is interesting to try to come to terms or get to grips with some of these concepts or possibilities - but probably not too helpful to expect to be able to understand them completely with our limited perspective!

 

[Loire]

It is interesting to try to come to terms or get to grips with some of these concepts or possibilities - but probably not too helpful to expect to be able to understand them completely with our limited perspective!

This is how I am also feeling. We need to realize that we can NEVER come to fully understand hyper-dimensional realities from our 3D perspective. The best we can do is speculate and this will help to entertain our minds (in a meaningful way). For instance, in order to play a video game, you do not need to know all the programming complexities that made it. It may be important to just realize (and admire) that the game you are busy playing is the result of someone's programming work. Don't kill yourself in trying to understand how the author did it but just enjoy your game!! And if you desperately want to know how it was done, then you must go to university and spend many years learning programming until you can graduate and be able to create video games by yourself.

The same way for us 3D people, if we desperately need to fully understand how 4D, 5D, or 6D realities looks like, then we must work on ourselves so we can qualify and graduate to those dimensions and understand them by ourselves. Otherwise this whole obsession becomes nothing more than a distraction.

That is why I now think that these kind of debates are not very important for our spiritual growth and personal development. I don't know if others members feel the same way.

 

[anart]

That is why I now think that these kind of debates are not very important for our spiritual growth and personal development. I don't know if others members feel the same way.

I tend to agree. Gurdjieff would call it 'wiseacring' or 'philosophizing' - both of which are forms of dreaming and a complete waste of energy.

 

[Deleted member 8431]

That is why I now think that these kind of debates are not very important for our spiritual growth and personal development. I don't know if others members feel the same way.

I tend to agree. Gurdjieff would call it 'wiseacring' or 'philosophizing' - both of which are forms of dreaming and a complete waste of energy.

Hummm...

Very good point indeed!

 

[Advaita]

I just read these lines, maybe we should just deal with our ignorance ;)

16.39 Questioner: I am assuming that it is not necessary for an individual to understand the Law of One to go from the third to the fourth density. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. It is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. Understanding is not of this density.

- Ra Material