What is Truth?

go2

Dagobah Resident
anart said:
go2 said:
These thoughts could be another dream, but today the Law of Three offers me a way to understand ‘black and white’ thinking and the relativity of truth at each level of existence, except at level of the First Principle. I am not satisfied with these thoughts, but I have wanted to post them for several weeks to see if the network can offer other perspectives. I am the ‘blind man’ excitedly describing the elephant I stumbled into.

I think the vast majority of people are 'third force blind' - there is (false) certainty/security in black and white thinking, which is one of the reasons that it is the thinking of the child. There is a sense that some order or control can be created over the world if things are put neatly into their places of 'right' and 'wrong' (or all/nothing) no matter what/when/where/why. It often creates a feeling of uncertainty and insecurity to open up to the realization that there IS a subtlety of thought that must be employed in order to see the Truth of any situation. This subtlety of thought opens ones eyes to the Third Force and, thus, to a more objective view of 'anything'. It's an important realization to come to, go2 - and I think it will be rewarding for you to move forward applying it to your thinking. I do think, however, that Objective truth can be found on levels other than the 'First Principle' - it can be found in many, if not all, faces of god throughout all creation if one is able to perceive it. Just my thoughts, though.

Anart, would Objective truth be the Third Force understanding or Third Force creation resulting from the relationship of the initiating First Force with the resisting Second Force? I need to ponder Objective truth and the many faces of god. It is a subtle thought.

Bud said:
go2 said:
These thoughts could be another dream, but today the Law of Three offers me a way to understand ‘black and white’ thinking and the relativity of truth at each level of existence, except at level of the First Principle. I am not satisfied with these thoughts, but I have wanted to post them for several weeks to see if the network can offer other perspectives. I am the ‘blind man’ excitedly describing the elephant I stumbled into.

I don't know that you're 'third force blind'. If you exhibit black and white thinking, it is likely the same as anyone else: with regard to a particular subject or point of view.

We could probably say that the 'Third Force' IS the context and background from which discernment of anything is made. No matter what a person says or believes, or what the subject is, my experience so far is that there is always a wider and deeper perspective possible and available.

Bud, I think the context or background is the Second Force in the Law of Three. The Law of Three understands creation as the result of a positive or active force initiating and a negative or passive force resisting the initiative of the First Force. The result or reconciliation of this 'clash' or 'union' of initiative and resistance is the Third Force. The 'child' is the 'fruit' or Third Force result of the union of 'man' and 'woman', speaking metaphorically. Somewhere here, deeper is the real meaning of the famous 'trinity' of our Christian theology. My 'black and white' thinking is the result of not consummating or relating 'black and white' in a barren mind. I am a reflection of a barren age of humanity trapped in a reality of unreconciled opposites.
 

Approaching Infinity

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
go2 said:
Anart, would Objective truth be the Third Force understanding or Third Force creation resulting from the relationship of the initiating First Force with the resisting Second Force? I need to ponder Objective truth and the many faces of god. It is a subtle thought.

This could all be wrong, but here are my thoughts. I think that between Truth (active) and Lies (resisting), is the knowledge and understanding that we come to. We strive to approach Truth by observing primary reality impartially, and can become increasingly objective and knowledgeable, but Truth always remains an ideal which we never fully attain. It's the 'higher part' that bootstraps us up bit by bit.

Our field of consciousness is the third factor, the context in which we discern between truth and lies. It's the 'ladder' between subjectivity (passive consciousness) and objectivity (active consciousness). And one method of getting there is thinking with a hammer!
 

Buddy

The Living Force
go2 said:
Bud, I think the context or background is the Second Force in the Law of Three. The Law of Three understands creation as the result of a positive or active force initiating and a negative or passive force resisting the initiative of the First Force. The result or reconciliation of this 'clash' or 'union' of initiative and resistance is the Third Force. The 'child' is the 'fruit' or Third Force result of the union of 'man' and 'woman', speaking metaphorically. Somewhere here, deeper is the real meaning of the famous 'trinity' of our Christian theology.

That may be and it may be that I don't understand it, or that I understand it differently. From my perspective, what you just described is Universe, or Reality (positive or active force) interacting with the shallow, subjective internal thinking space (area of resistance to and resentment towards Universe) and a reconciliation which brings forth fruit (birthing a new, more objective understanding).

I don't know about anyone else, but for me, metaphors can cause unexpected problems when I already have meaning for them. I could still be wrong, though, but this understanding seems to offer the most practical benefits for me.

go2 said:
My 'black and white' thinking is the result of not consummating or relating 'black and white' in a barren mind.

You are describing your mind as 'barren'? That's not what I got from the last two threads you participated in. :)
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Bud said:
No matter what a person says or believes, or what the subject is, my experience so far is that there is always a wider and deeper perspective possible and available.

And sometimes, the individual is not capable of getting to that wider and deeper perspective due to the limitations of the machine. That would be the "unknown unknown" or the "unknowable" from Don Juan's perspective.
 

Buddy

The Living Force
Laura said:
Bud said:
No matter what a person says or believes, or what the subject is, my experience so far is that there is always a wider and deeper perspective possible and available.

And sometimes, the individual is not capable of getting to that wider and deeper perspective due to the limitations of the machine. That would be the "unknown unknown" or the "unknowable" from Don Juan's perspective.

That makes sense. Thanks for that. :)
 

Leon1

Padawan Learner
'What is Truth?'


In my opinion, we can never know 'truth' as such.

If all is an illusion (in Third Density), then truth is an illusion also in this Density.

Is Truth based on Knowledge? Then we are forever learning, forever gaining new knowledge that encourages us to seek deeper/further knowledge, that we hope
will lead us closer to the truth. Like 'Moorcocks', 'Golden Barge (I think the book was?) it is always just going around the next bend ahead, we have to keep moving
forward to try and reach it. But, we never do. What we do succeed in doing however is uncover more illusions, lies, machinations, etc. and amend our own illusions as to what
we think we know to be true. That there are facts as opposed to falsehoods may well be closer to truth (for us here in 3D), yet still, they are based on what we believe to be
facts.

With so many facts hidden, then we are left with knowledge again as our only tool/way/resource to move beyond falsehoods and gain further insights into our physical surroundings and
human condition/s that we find ourselves presently in.

Maybe the truth is that there is no definitive truth, there are only choices?

Leon
 

StrangeCaptain

Jedi Council Member
Leon said:
That there are facts as opposed to falsehoods may well be closer to truth (for us here in 3D), yet still, they are based on what we believe to be
facts.

With so many facts hidden, then we are left with knowledge again as our only tool/way/resource to move beyond falsehoods and gain further insights into our physical surroundings and
human condition/s that we find ourselves presently in.

Maybe the truth is that there is no definitive truth, there are only choices?

Leon

You don't have to believe anything is a fact if you don't want to. You can always assign probabilities and percentages to how likely something is to be a fact or how much truth the information holds while constantly re-assessing as new information surfaces.

I see what you mean in the sense that there may be limits on how sure of anything we can really be, but then when you reach a point of having to make a choice, there is still the question of how to make it. Randomly? According to a goal or method?
 

WhiteBear

Jedi Master
Data said:
luke wilson said:
How do I know exactly what is the truth or to be more accurate, objective truth?

I don't think that there are several types of truth. If it's a truth, then it's objective. And you know it when you verify if the data can be mapped to reality.


Patience said:
You don't have to believe anything is a fact if you don't want to. You can always assign probabilities and percentages to how likely something is to be a fact or how much truth the information holds while constantly re-assessing as new information surfaces.

I see what you mean in the sense that there may be limits on how sure of anything we can really be, but then when you reach a point of having to make a choice, there is still the question of how to make it. Randomly? According to a goal or method?

I was pondering as I read this thread, and I realized that a lot of what is currently considered truth is very much unproven, even though it appears to be -thoroughly- proven.
For example: It used to be "truth" that the world was flat. This was proven by mapping the observation available at hand to reality. Ships left the port, they appeared to gradually sink, then disappear. Therefore, they reached the edge of the world and fell off.
"Better and better" appeals to me because I see it similar to a pilot who has heard of an airstrip called Objectivity. He doesn't know anyone who's personally been there, but there are rumors of it being to the West, so he flies off to the West. At various places, he stops and talks to the locals. Some say it's North-west of here, others say South-west, and this person has a map that someone drew a long time ago who said they'd been there. The pilot flies to the location on the map, and there's no airstrip...so either the mapmaker was incorrect, or intentionally deceptive. The pilot is a good judge of character, though, and was able, by talking to various people, to tell who was lying and who was not, and kept moving west. Eventually, he was able to see the airstrip himself.
I see each and every one of you as one of the locals I'm speaking with, trying to get to Objectivity. The C's, Laura, Ark, all of you in the network have been so helpful to me. I may never find the airstrip...I don't even know if I have enough gas, but I feel like I can almost see it, it gets better and better all the time :)
 

Leon1

Padawan Learner
Tigersoap said:
Leon said:
'What is Truth?'

Hi Leo

I think this will be interesting for you to read ;)

Truth


Thanks Tigersoap

If we are to make 'right'choices and find 'facts' as close to the 'truth' as possible (again for us personaly) in making what we think are those 'right' (for us individualy) choices, can't disagree at all. ;)
We can only make choices based on what we know or think we know. Our personal choices do have impact on others, because they define us and our actions. So we indeed do have to put some
trust in what we think is a truth.

hehe, it is one of those subjects that bend the mind, not a bad thing I think, ;)
 

Leon1

Padawan Learner
Patience said:
Leon said:
That there are facts as opposed to falsehoods may well be closer to truth (for us here in 3D), yet still, they are based on what we believe to be
facts.

With so many facts hidden, then we are left with knowledge again as our only tool/way/resource to move beyond falsehoods and gain further insights into our physical surroundings and
human condition/s that we find ourselves presently in.

Maybe the truth is that there is no definitive truth, there are only choices?

Leon

You don't have to believe anything is a fact if you don't want to. You can always assign probabilities and percentages to how likely something is to be a fact or how much truth the information holds while constantly re-assessing as new information surfaces.

I see what you mean in the sense that there may be limits on how sure of anything we can really be, but then when you reach a point of having to make a choice, there is still the question of how to make it. Randomly? According to a goal or method?

Oh yes patience, we could not make any choice unless we had what we thought was truth and facts to guide us I agree. And I also agree that we have to have a level of faith in what we think of as truth
and an open mind that those truths can and probably will change to one extent or anothr. It would be very difficult to make honest (for self/others) choices. there are many many people sadly that make choices Randomly and according to goals and methods.

The hard part is trying to 'truly' define truth.;)

I doubt I could do that, as its always open, always variable to where we are, how we percieve, what we percieve with our limited physical tools.

hehe, all I can do is make best choices with what I think I know.
 

Leon1

Padawan Learner
WhiteBear said:
Data said:
luke wilson said:
How do I know exactly what is the truth or to be more accurate, objective truth?
The C's, Laura, Ark, all of you in the network have been so helpful to me. I may never find the airstrip...I don't even know if I have enough gas, but I feel like I can almost see it, it gets better and better all the time :)

hehe I'll second that Whitebear.



Edit=Quote
 
Top Bottom