What sort of idiot are you?

Johnno

The Living Force
I've been reading CS Nott's "Journey Through this World" where he describes himself as a round idiot. It took him some time to find out why. Reading his two books it wasn't hard as an outside observer to see why. He kept going around in circles ending up where he started.....again and again.

Here is Gurdjieff's list of Idiots with some information behind them.

http://www.nonduality.com/idiot.htm

Marcia Paul contributes:

"Gurdjieff introduced his toast to the Idiots in 1922, and
from 1940 gave it increasing emphasis.

Although not divesting 'idiot' of its pejorative sense, he re-invested
it with the meaning of individuality (from a Greek root
meaning 'I make my own').

Though idiocy was universal - God
himself being the Unique idiot (No.21) - a subsidiary
differentiation afforded a human typology at once 'poetic'
and profound.

David Hodges contributes:

Herewith the most complete list possible of Gurdjieff's
Order of Idiots, with thanks to Marcia Paul.

1 ordinary idiot
2 super idiot
3 arch idiot
4 hopeless idiot
5 compassionate idiot
6 squirming idiot
7 square idiot
8 round idiot
9 zigzag idiot
10 enlightened idiot
11 doubting idiot
12 swaggering idiot
13 born idiot
14 patented idiot
15 psychopathic idiot
16 polyhedral idiot

Idiots 17-21 constituted a spiritual hierarchy, reflecting
progressive gradations of objective reason

Idiot 18 presented the highest development which a human
being could reach, but in order to attain it, he had first
voluntarily to descend again from 17 to 1, the ordinary
idiot.

Idiots 19 and 21 were reserved for the sons of God.

21 - Unique Idiot (God himself being the Unique idiot)

Source: Moore, J.B. 1991. Gurdjieff - A biography. Element
Books Limited, Shaftesbury, Dorset.
I myself would choose zig-zag idiot or hopeless idiot... there isn't a flat idiot listed.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Idiot, in Greek means Private or rather a private attitude. This is opposed to Demot, which means Public or part of a group. Athenian Greeks considered it the high point of civilized behaviour to be a Citizen, a contributor to the City and group. The idiot is the completely subjective person, the one living in their own little world. The idiot may or may not be selfish, but whether or not he/she is, that person still views selfishness or non-selfishness from a purely subjective standpoint. Hence the idiot is deluded.

I guess because to one degree or other we are all idiots because we are all subjective. Idiocy is our home plate out of which we reach out into objectivity. The problem is that being objective is confusing in a world of idiots. So to be objective we not only have to transcend our own idiocy but that of others as well.

Forgoing our subjectivity only to adopt the subjectivity of another is really compound idiocy. And when a group of idiots combines subjectivity and calls it objectivity, there is even more compound idiocy. And if we just reject every other group on the groud they are all idiots, we just become doubting idiots. And of course, it goes without saying that we are all born idiots.

And for many who consider the highest ideal to be merger with God, I guess they are looking forward to become one with the Unique Idiot. Personally I would be happy to attain the state of being an Objective Idiot, since that would constitute self-knowledge, which a good place to start in really addressing collective idiocy.
 

aurora

Jedi Master
In Turkish aptal means idiot. Actually the word was abdal - from persian, meaning a travelling dervish. Dictionary.com gives dervish as :A member of any of various Muslim ascetic orders, some of which perform whirling dances and vigorous chanting as acts of ecstatic devotion. (Actually this was and is the practice of Mevlevi sufis)
The word dervish calls to mind the phrases howling dervish and whirling dervish. Certainly there are dervishes whose religious exercises include making loud howling noises or whirling rapidly to induce a dizzy, mystical state. But a dervish is really the Muslim equivalent of a monk or friar, for the Persian word darvsh, the ultimate source of dervish, means "religious mendicant." The word is first recorded in English in 1585.
Then later on the word changed meaning, now being used to mean a fool, an idiot having the connotation of retarded in mental capability. It is interesting to note how the original meaning has been twisted to degrade.
 

Johnno

The Living Force
Esoquest an objective idiot is a rather worthy ideal IMHO.

Thanks to you both for the etymological tips. I actually first came across the Cassiopaea website via Laura's article "The way of the Fool"
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/wave13e.htm after reading Mark Hedsel and David Ovason's "The Zelator". Reading The Zelator now, it comes off as rather pompous....... nevertheless I reference it now and again. There are some gems amongst the dirt.

There's also appears to be a "green language" aspect to the word idiot. The Unique Idiot- Dio (Italian:God) is in the middle of "it"!
 

vinny

The Living Force
hey, that's not fair! I'm not an idiot!
damn - that qualifies me as a swaggering idiot ;-)
 
M

MaskedAvatar

Guest
Marcia Paul contributes:

...

Idiots 19 and 21 were reserved for the sons of God.

21 - Unique Idiot (God himself being the Unique idiot)

...
Is that as the original text had it, or a subsequent typo? You can no doubt see the slip, and while it has some unintentional religious significance, I wonder which contributor of this interesting passage to SOTT actually had the aversion to the number 20?
 
So much choices. I must be a "twijfelende idioot" (11).

Green language? Take the Unique Idiot (dio) out of idiot and all that is left over is just an it.
A doubting "it". Not bad huh, for an "it".

No no no! Now I'm back to being a "kronkelende idioot" (6).

Cheers
 

domi

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
round idiot: it will allow me to roll away from STS attacks.
 

Mike

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
How about:

Perfect idiot

or

Complete idiot

http://www.idiotsguides.com/nf/Book/BookDisplay/0,,9780028643502,00.html :O
Complete Idiot's Guide to Communicating with Spirits said:
Don't give up the spirit! The Complete Idiot's Guide to Communicating with Spirits will show you exactly how to uncover your own mediumistic capabilities and connect with those no longer on the earth plane. In this Complete Idiot's Guide
 

Ryan

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Mike said:
http://www.idiotsguides.com/nf/Book/BookDisplay/0,,9780028643502,00.html :O
Complete Idiot's Guide to Communicating with Spirits said:
Don't give up the spirit! The Complete Idiot's Guide to Communicating with Spirits will show you exactly how to uncover your own mediumistic capabilities and connect with those no longer on the earth plane. In this Complete Idiot's Guide
:O :O :O

Okay - that's disturbing.
 

bedower

Jedi Master
The last two posts (Mike's and Ryan's) are missing from my screen. Also Laura's first post in the 'Opinions' thread.

Is there something I am not doing right in this new Forum layout, like a button I should be pressing to access these posts or something?
 

Ruth

The Living Force
Looks like we've got some missing or invisible idiots... :D

Myself, I would go with infernal idiot, but its not on the list. :evil:
 
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