What woke you up???

[anart]

Laura by the sea, I understand how you must feel about how the Doctor but they have to be that way to avoid the emotions that they feel. Even they sound cold, they empathize, to show it is not proper bed side manner. I use to work with them.

Sounds like an excuse for lack of feeling. Good bedside manner means making the patient feel cared for - period.

 

[DGF]

There are Doctors to do care, but to show emotion will open up a can of worms when it comes to the Doctor patient relationship. For one if a Doctor has an emotional bond with the patient it could reduce their ability to treat the illness effectively, hence the reason for Doctors are not allowed to operate on a relative. That is the thinking behind not having an emotional attachment. It should also be noted that working in excess of 80 hours a week whilst in Medical school for very little compensation should denote that they care about helping people. Maybe not all of them, but surely a good percentage of them do.

 

[anart]

There are Doctors to do care, but to show emotion will open up a can of worms when it comes to the Doctor patient relationship. For one if a Doctor has an emotional bond with the patient it could reduce their ability to treat the illness effectively, hence the reason for Doctors are not allowed to operate on a relative. That is the thinking behind not having an emotional attachment. It should also be noted that working in excess of 80 hours a week whilst in Medical school for very little compensation should denote that they care about helping people. Maybe not all of them, but surely a good percentage of them do.

I think this is a great example of ponerization. The reality is that human beings need to care about each other and show it, and this applies most especially to healers. Just because you have been inculcated by a pathological society and buy into it as 'what is right' you are espousing that view. It is a view that is wholly contradictory to what normal humanity is and should be - especially regarding healing. Caring for someone does not equate to losing control of thinking or healing capacities due to identification. It is not an 'either/or' situation.

 

[Oxajil]

There are Doctors to do care, but to show emotion will open up a can of worms when it comes to the Doctor patient relationship. For one if a Doctor has an emotional bond with the patient it could reduce their ability to treat the illness effectively, hence the reason for Doctors are not allowed to operate on a relative. That is the thinking behind not having an emotional attachment. It should also be noted that working in excess of 80 hours a week whilst in Medical school for very little compensation should denote that they care about helping people. Maybe not all of them, but surely a good percentage of them do.

I think this is a great example of ponerization. The reality is that human beings need to care about each other and show it, and this applies most especially to healers. Just because you have been inculcated by a pathological society and buy into it as 'what is right' you are espousing that view. It is a view that is wholly contradictory to what normal humanity is and should be - especially regarding healing. Caring for someone does not equate to losing control of thinking or healing capacities due to identification. It is not an 'either/or' situation.

I agree. And it's not really about creating an "emotional bond", it is simply about being human, about considering each other's feelings. It's something that actually should happen naturally.

Considering the ponerized society, and in which the workload (not to mention the different forms of stress) has become insane, it is not suprising for me to see that most doctors have become robots, if they weren't already.

And you said that because people choose to work that many hours as a doctor plus go through Medical school, that it is a sign that they care. Well that might count for some, but I think that people choose this study (atleast in the Netherlands) because:
- People will look up to you if you tell people you do this study, as there is a strict selection on this study etc.
- Narcissism, many narcissistic parents tell their children to become doctors
- Money...

Not saying it goes for all, but from what I've seen and met so far...

In a normal society the ideal way for me would be that everyone takes care of one another, people reassuring the doctor (social support and professional psychological support if needed), and the doctor being honest and sympathetic to the patient etc.

Somehow we're conditioned to think that doctors should not show emotion and be the "bigger person", but I find that it's normal for them (they're human too after all) to show emotion, either sadness or happiness, because it is soothing either way (for the patient ánd the doctor). It shows that you as a person, not as a "number x patient" are cared for. When a relative of mine was going through a difficult time, I tried to be the bigger person, but as this person started to cry, I started to hold that person and cried as well. It was actually a very soothing experience for the both of us. Sometimes when you can't find the words to make things better, because the current situation simply looks bad, sharing the pain by showing that you care, can be very supportive.

And when I was at the hospital for my eye, my eye doctor looked worried and told me that I am so young and he hoped it would get better, I told him not to worry and that it'll hopefully work out in the end. Even though I was surprised at his reaction, it was soothing in a sense to know he cared for my well-being. So I don't see how emotions can stand in the way of any healing. Rather, being emotionless and robotic would be damaging in my opinion.

 

[Laura M. C.]

Hi Anart,

I think this is a great example of ponerization.

True , last night I was thinking about the process of ponerization and how Narcissism has become *mainstream* (thanks New Age Era); the norm today is that being *good* is bad and being *bad* is good, objective and cool.



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[loreta]

There are Doctors to do care, but to show emotion will open up a can of worms when it comes to the Doctor patient relationship. For one if a Doctor has an emotional bond with the patient it could reduce their ability to treat the illness effectively, hence the reason for Doctors are not allowed to operate on a relative. That is the thinking behind not having an emotional attachment. It should also be noted that working in excess of 80 hours a week whilst in Medical school for very little compensation should denote that they care about helping people. Maybe not all of them, but surely a good percentage of them do.

The relation doctor/patient changed with time. Before, when I was young, doctors where different. Now they are like robots. When did a doctor touch you? Put an hand on your shoulder to reassure you? To calm you? When a doctor took your pulse? Is this a crime for a doctor to touch a patient? I don't understand. The sense of touch is very important between humans beings. But doctors are afraid, it seem to me, to touch. They refuse this simple contact. Why? You treat an illness with love and comprehension, with care and also, I think, with compassion, and compassion is a positive emotion. That's why I am afraid to go to see doctors of any kind, I am almost an doctorphobic. If I go to see a doctor it is really, really because I feel very sick. And it is very rare, I try to cure myself. They are doctors who do care, I agree, but they are in a inhuman system, the medical one. How sad.

Loreta.

 

[RGG]

First post now that I'm back-Whoo Hoo :D

I love this thread...


I remember walking home from school at about 8 years old trying to figure out why I had refused to apologize to one of my classmates when she clearly deserved one from me and I knew it ( don't remember what I did exactly). After thinking and walking for quite awhile it dawned on me that I had never been taught by my parents to apologize and they never did it either so the behavior was never modeled for me. I knew many instances that my parents were wrong and should have apologized but never did and still do not to this day! It's really sad actually. Anyway, I realized then that if they failed to teach me when and how to admit that I was wrong and when it was appropriate to apologize, then there could be other important things that they failed to teach me! I remember feeling quite horrified about this revelation and after, decided to take my social learning into my own hands. If my own parents couldn't be trusted to know and teaching me everything then other adults couldn't be either. I began noticing that whenever I started to have that sick feeling in my chest and stomach I was probably behaving poorly. This same feeling would come over me when I would lie about things as well and I knew that on those occasions I would have to practice being truthful or apologetic.
Ever since then, I have been on a mission of studying and improving upon my own behavior while always carefully observing others.

Renee

 

[Buddy]

Thanks for the bump Rx. I missed this anomaly of conventional perspective on a thread whose topic question assumes understanding of "awake"? Perhaps it is I who misunderstood the question to begin with? At least that's in the realm of the believable. :)

I am wondering if there might be more dialog available here...

There are Doctors to do care, but to show emotion will open up a can of worms when it comes to the Doctor patient relationship. For one if a Doctor has an emotional bond with the patient it could reduce their ability to treat the illness effectively...

How so?

...hence the reason for Doctors are not allowed to operate on a relative.

Really? Well Heaven forbid they should have any emotional investment in getting something right the first time.

That is the thinking behind not having an emotional attachment.

That is the mechanical thinking...i.e., non-thinking...in front of and blocking an emotional attachment...and this from a doctor is OK? What is it about star diagnosticians? Where do you suppose they would get their ability from? Dead-headedness? Shouldn't a doctor be just as good at diagnosis?

It should also be noted that working in excess of 80 hours a week whilst in Medical school for very little compensation should denote that they care about helping people.

Why should that be noted or denoted?

Maybe not all of them, but surely a good percentage of them do.

Why surely?

 

[Jefferson]

It should also be noted that working in excess of 80 hours a week whilst in Medical school for very little compensation should denote that they care about helping people. Maybe not all of them, but surely a good percentage of them do.

This insane work schedule, that is usually marked by sleep deprivation, is part of the brain washing program of the mainstream medical community. I can't remember the documentary where I first heard this, but it seems to make sense: physicians under the thumb of the medical/pharmaceutical complex need to go through various levels of mind control to be useful minions/servants (first with extremely exclusive in-take to the medical schools, likely admitting those with high ego in addition to high intellect, then the years of brainwashing in class, the twisted medical science, the sleep deprivation, and then the position in society that can be removed in a blink of an eye via de-certification when a doctor does not tow the line (example here _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBuLdyrGbas ) .

 

[scottiet]

always feeling a kind of homesick and saying to myself that i want to go home, wherever that was! a knowing that im not going to be here for very long and never realising why, a feeling that i didn't belong or couldnt really associate myself to most people, the fascination of wanting to know conspiracies and the unknown really intrigued me, and here we are ! at cassiopaea!

 

[Kantek]

For me I have always felt things where not right everything always felt off just a little, so I started seeking answers first via the bible, and then into reading prophecies. Nothing felt right until I took a religion class last year in college and came to realise that there is a bigger picture that is obscured underneath the views of each religion that they hold bits and pieces of the truth. Then i found this site and more and more pieces started falling together and I felt as if I had been freed from a mind numbing fog. So I read as much as I can in hopes that I can catch up because this is one buss trip I don't want to miss.

 

[Bresias]

The common theme of "what woke me up" has been pain. The kind of pain that displaced me, shook me loose from cherished beliefs.

Our narcissistic culture encourages us to believe what we want to believe, encourages us to feel entitled to dictate our own "reality" based upon whatever crazed personal wishes, based upon our central position in the World, are. I participated in this narcissism, and I too see how the "New Age Movement" was corrupted into a vehicle for validating narcissism.

I flitted desperately from one "belief" system to the next, and revisited the ones I'd previously discarded. I felt lost. I perceived the "powers that be" were inherently immoral, at least. My adult life has been an experience of being extremely disillusioned. I fought it for years, until I consciously realized I was fighting against "reality" in favor of "what I wanted it to be", versus "what it is".

Waking up to what *IS* is the best way I can describe my awakening. Once you get a glimpse of reality as it is, instead of what you personally wish it would be, you can't unsee it. Along with seeing it comes the responsibility of accepting it. That doesn't mean to TOLERATE it, or agree with it. It means to accept it in the way you accept weather. Seeing "what is" reduces me to a very, very inconsequential, transient being. In accepting this (a far cry from what I wanted in my narcissistic days), I have found the peace and satisfaction that eluded me before. Contradictory, I know, but I can't argue with direct experience :)