What's happening in Serbia

[Persej]

While reading Early Christian Archaeology section in Ch 1 of FPTM, about the refrigerium, the meal in honor of the departed person (possibly in the graveyard), remembered that was told as a kid that Orthodox Serbs had a custom of doing that on the grave of the deceased person.
Is that true? Does this happen nowadays?

Yes.

If so, it would show that parts of that early Christian tradition have survived even to this day, which would be remarkable.

Yes, it is a modern version of old custom.

It says here that the custom is also part of official burial ritual in (all) Orthodox churches.

In big cities not much, but in villages yes, it is a part of burial ritual.

 

[Nević Nenad]

Everyone can go to the street, that's ok, but you can't close the highway. I'd love to see someone do it in America, hahaha.

Actually, I checked it out. According to law anyone can. And its a good peaceful way to get attention to some problem.

 

[Nević Nenad]

The canopy was reconstructed. That's why it fell.

Ah, "reconstructed". Semantics. I stand corrected.

 

[Nević Nenad]

While reading Early Christian Archaeology section in Ch 1 of FPTM, about the refrigerium, the meal in honor of the departed person (possibly in the graveyard), remembered that was told as a kid that Orthodox Serbs had a custom of doing that on the grave of the deceased person.
Is that true? Does this happen nowadays?

If so, it would show that parts of that early Christian tradition have survived even to this day, which would be remarkable.

Edit:
It says here that the custom is also part of official burial ritual in (all) Orthodox churches.

Donošenje hrane na grobove

Danas ćemo nešto reći o jednom pravoslavnom običaju, po kojemu su pravoslavni vrlo prepoznatljivi među nepravoslavnima....

orthodoxhr.blogspot.com

It is true, and is happening today. At least in the Balkan orthodox churches, which are Romanian, Serbian, Greek and Bulgarian. I'm not sure for the Russian orthodox church. Russian church is much younger and strange to Balkan churches.

On the day of the funeral, the family of the deceased prepares a meal for the people that attended the funeral. Earlier that was done in the home of the deceased, but nowadays in some nearby restaurant. Never on the grave or cemetery. Then you have "pomen" (pomana in Romania) or the remembrance in english, which comes in periods after the funeral (7 days, 40 days, 6 months), when people do take the food on the grave of their deceased. Of course its not three course meal, its more symbolic, but it must have a bit of bread (or grain cake), meat (or fish, if it is festing day), and some alcohol beverage. The wine is a must, because you must spill some of it on the grave. You just try the food and then share with the people who came on the graves of their deceased. You dont eat it as a lunch on the grave (although Romani Gypsies really do that, but thats show for itself) And then there are special days for the dead, zadusnice, which literally means "day for the souls". Biggest one is now on 31. october. I think there are some 7-8 zadusnice per year, cant remember correctly. On "zadusnice" you do all that, but for all your deceased, not just one. You dedicate food to the specific dead, for example, if the dead liked to eat cakes, you bring cake and dedicate it to that dead (my father will have some slivovitsa now on 31st ) At the end you share and exchange your food with the other people who came to the cemetery.

It could be early christian customs and rituals, but I think that it is actually pagan rituals. Roman and pagan Slavic influence is very obvious in Serbian and Bulgarian church (Romanian is a bit younger) to the level that it is not far from the truth to say that Serbian, and Bulgarian to some degree, Christianity is translated paganism. For example Serbs and Bulgarians have holiday called "Vidovdan" (biggest holiday in Serbia) but not for the St. Vitus, but for the Slavic god Svetovid (Svyatovid, Svantevid. Germanic analog is Odin). Also, every Serbian family have its own saint, patron of family, (Lares, in old Rome) and celebrates his/hers day, which is called Slava. (for example mine is St. Stephen protomartyr, deacon of Jerusalem) In many Serbian homes you will see in some corner icon of that saint with little candle hanging in front of it, just like on the roads in Greece. Allegedly, the family get their patron saint on the day when they were converted to christianity, but its more likely that indicates that roman paganism was still "standing strong" in these parts when christianity arrived.

 

[Persej]

On the day of the funeral, the family of the deceased prepares a meal for the people that attended the funeral. Earlier that was done in the home of the deceased, but nowadays in some nearby restaurant. Never on the grave or cemetery.

It is still done on the grave and cemetery in villages.

And then there are special days for the dead, zadusnice, which literally means "day for the souls". Biggest one is now on 31. october. I think there are some 7-8 zadusnice per year, cant remember correctly. On "zadusnice" you do all that, but for all your deceased, not just one. You dedicate food to the specific dead, for example, if the dead liked to eat cakes, you bring cake and dedicate it to that dead (my father will have some slivovitsa now on 31st )

On 1st November will be the next one. Some people go the day before if they cannot make it on the Saturday.

 

[Nević Nenad]

It is still done on the grave and cemetery in villages.



On 1st November will be the next one. Some people go the day before if they cannot make it on the Saturday.

Region depending. In central Sumadija, I just went to the funeral last saturday, and it was in near by restaurant. I dont remeber that was on the graveyard ever. (BTW, the man died couple hours after receiving experimental "bio" therapy). And we are going on 31st, actually always on Saturday.

If you dont agree I will release all the might of our Flavia Felix legion on your Dalmatia border. You will experience the wrath of Moesia Superior!

(apropos Roman pagan rituals and if I read roman map properly )

 

[Persej]

Region depending. In central Sumadija, I just went to the funeral last saturday, and it was in near by restaurant. I dont remeber that was on the graveyard ever.

I believe you. Some regions are more traditional than others. There is a whole set of rituals here that even the priests who do not fully agree with them must follow or they will be expelled.

And we are going on 31st, actually always on Saturday.

I'm sorry to disagree with you, but 31st is Friday.

If you dont agree I will release all the might of our Flavia Felix legion on your Dalmatia border. You will experience the wrath of Moesia Superior!

(apropos Roman pagan rituals and if I read roman map properly )

Yes, this was once Dalmatia, which later on turned into Ostrogothic Kingdom of Italy. No wonder why there are differences between present regions.

 

[Nević Nenad]

Hm! Barbarians... We are going on saturday!

Anyway, for those interested more in roman history in these parts, I recommend documentary called: Travelling the roman empire. The episodes: Croatia, kingdom of salt and sea, and: Serbia, Crucible of Warriors.

 

[Persej]

Serbia’s Vucic angers Russia with comments about selling ammo to EU

Russia has called on Serbia to clarify public remarks made by right-wing populist ally President Aleksandar Vucic on the potential sale of mortar shells to the European Union amid concerns exports could wind up in Ukraine as Moscow’s war rages on.

Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said on Friday that Vucic’s comments required an explanation, noting that Serbia had promised Russia many times that its ammunition would not end up in Ukrainian hands.

Vucic spoke of selling his country’s large stocks of ammunition to Europe in a televised interview with broadcaster Euronews that aired this week, confirming his readiness to start shipments even if they found their way to Ukraine, which was invaded by Russia in 2022.

“We need to sell it to someone, and we’ll sell it to whomever we can in order to earn some money, but we’ll try to take care and not see that ammunition end up in a war zone. But it happens from time to time,” he said on The Europe Conversation show.

“At the end [of the day], we’ll have to pay our workers,” he added. “Tell me, is there something that is not rational?”

Last week, Vucic also told Germany’s Cicero magazine that he had offered his “friends” in the EU the opportunity to sign a purchase agreement for the large stockpiles of ammunition – in particular, mortar shells – produced in his country.

Asked directly whether he would sell to Ukraine, Vucic said: “The buyers can do what they want with it.”

Back in May, Russia said it had evidence that Serbian defence companies were supplying Ukraine with ammunition, in a rare rebuke of a country traditionally seen as an ally.

Serbia’s Vucic angers Russia with comments about selling ammo to EU

Comments come after bloc told Serbia, the only country not to sanction Russia, to 'get concrete' about accession bid.

www.aljazeera.com

"It's like there are two Vucic's," Russia says the Serbian president speaks differently in Moscow and in the West.

Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said that the Serbian president is sending double messages regarding the issue of sending weapons to Ukraine and that he is often asked how many Aleksandar Vucic's there really are.

The Serbian Foreign Ministry responded very quickly – that Serbia makes decisions in accordance with its interests. And all this on the day when the Serbian president discussed energy stability with the Russian ambassador, as N1 writes.

The Serbian president spoke at the end of October about Serbia's readiness to export larger quantities of weapons to the European Union.

When asked whether these ammunitions could be used in Ukraine, Aleksandar Vucic replied: "The buyers can do whatever they want with them."

It took Moscow a week to respond.

"You know, when I read all these interviews with the President of Serbia, I wonder if there really is only one President Vučić, because it seems that these interviews are given by completely different people. We hear one statement when he is in Moscow and completely different when he speaks from other geographical points," said Maria Zakharova, spokeswoman for the Russian Foreign Ministry.

She added that Moscow has repeatedly received assurances from the Serbian leadership that the export of ammunition produced in Serbia is under strict supervision.

"...and that these goods will not be delivered to Ukraine, in order to prevent Kiev from using them against our soldiers," Zakharova said.

The Serbian Foreign Ministry is surprised. They say Serbia is a “sovereign and independent state that makes its decisions exclusively in accordance with its national interests.”

"We expect this fact to be respected by representatives of friendly countries, as well as by official spokespeople of their institutions. We remind Ms. Zakharova that thanks to President Aleksandar Vučić, Serbia is the only country in Europe that has not imposed sanctions on the Russian Federation. This decision was neither easy nor simple," said Nevena Jovanović, Secretary of State at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

https://www.gazetaexpress.com/en/Is-it-like-there-are-two-Vucic%27s-or-does-Russia-say-that-the-Serbian-president-speaks-differently-in-Moscow-and-in-the-West/