Where to move.. Europe Ice-Age - Poland

Blacki

Dagobah Resident
#1
I have question about "Hope ya'll have been "prepping" moving South if possible. " from Laura facebook post.

I live In Europa Poland Gdańsk ( near sea ) from what I have Read I should move from Poland because all can be covered in ice ?
Or If I go to the Kraków ( zakopane ) that is near Czech it is good place to move ?
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
#2
Why do you want to move? Just to preserve your own life?

Those who show themselves to be useful to the Cosmos and the Living System will be guided.
 

Eboard10

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
#3
Hi Icedesert,

It's hard to guess precisely which areas are going to be covered in ice but it's assumed that if a new ice age were to occur (and chances of that happening are very high) it would be similar to the previous one.

The recent SOTT article on how to prepare for the coming storm has a couple of paragraphs on the topic. From the map you can see that all of Northern Europe and parts of Central Europe are covered in ice so IMO if you are thinking of moving to prepare for an ice age I would consider locations further South than Poland, ideally somewhere in the Mediterranean.

It will be interesting to see how this winter is going to play out. I spent the last 7 years in the UK after moving back home in Luxembourg which is only slightly further south, not an ideal location to live under an ice age. I realise that moving to a different area (for many that means to a different country) is very hard both financially and culturally but it's a choice that most will eventually be forced to face.

http://www.sott.net/article/268584-Preparation-for-the-coming-storm
General location



Take a look at world maps that show the lowest latitude extents of the ice sheets during the last ice age. You will probably want to consider areas that are at least 100 miles away from the lowest latitude incursions. There is good evidence that the land-based climate away from the ice sheets was not much different than that of today, and that summers were cooler and more tolerable further south from the ice sheets.

It is probably desirable to stay at least an equal distance (100 miles) from coastal areas due to uncertainty in weather/climate patterns and possible tsunamis. One hundred miles may seem like a lot, but coastal devastation will likely result in mass migrations of refugees from these areas, and you will want a good buffer zone. In fact, 100 miles may not be enough.

Another important consideration for the general location is fresh water. Areas with 40-60 inches (100-150 cm) per year rainfall rate will generally have plenty of ground water at shallow depth for a well. Such areas will likely be lush with vegetation and appropriate for raising animal stock without heavy reliance on supplemental feeds. Natural creeks and springs may offer additional benefits. Birds, bees, and abundant wildlife are very good signs - particularly if hunting becomes necessary.

When you begin to narrow down the possibilities to more specific areas, take a look at the County level. Look for Counties (or provinces) that do not contain any large metropolitan areas. If the County is primarily rural then it will likely be friendly for wells, building, farm infrastructure, low-cost labor, etc. "Rich" counties are much more associated with deep levels of bureaucracy that can put a real strain on your time and budget.
As Laura just said, it would however be worth for you to stop worrying about such events and focus your energy and efforts on doing Work which is much more important than wasting precious time on thinking how to preserve the physical body.
 

Blacki

Dagobah Resident
#4
Laura said:
Why do you want to move? Just to preserve your own life?

Those who show themselves to be useful to the Cosmos and the Living System will be guided.
My parents cant move because they don't belief in ice age, my sistre are in berlin and other live with my parents.
I live alone then I don't have "others" to move with me. Don't have children, woman.

Because I want to prepare for the worst and hoping for the best. Don't ignore Sign of the new little ice age and stay in place where It could be covered with 1km of ice or less. As C's says "Knowledge Protects, Ignorance Endangers."

At this point I don't have money to travel other place but I can look to job in kraków or other country France/Spain.
I have some food and stuff that I will must take with me that is a logistic problem with no cash .. to transport it.

I was trying make Network of people to p"Prepper" but in my area there are no one who want to "Prepper" 99% of people want to "live and dream, make fun".

Considering that I don't have at this moment access to the FOTCM close forum and I'm not up-to-date with seating communities for members of FOTCM..
Then I'm writing in here.

Why move ? because I was thinking about it from 4 year by now reading sott / books / podcast.

Just want to be Usefulness for the FOTCM members. Maybe I cant practice in this "communities". Cosmos and Living system...
I have hope that doing EE day by day, diet, work with programs, will show Cosmos and Living system that I can be usefulness..
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
#5
Lucas/Blacki/Lukas/Bobo/Icedesert, if you don't participate on the regular forum and show that you are working on yourself then the FOTCM private community has no way of rebuilding trust towards you. So, to answer your question: we cannot at present moment grant you access to the private boards, but the regular forum is here to help if you wish to learn and to demonstrate your networking abilities and development.
 

Blacki

Dagobah Resident
#6
Laura said:
Lucas/Blacki/Lukas/Bobo/Icedesert, if you don't participate on the regular forum and show that you are working on yourself then the FOTCM private community has no way of rebuilding trust towards you. So, to answer your question: we cannot at present moment grant you access to the private boards, but the regular forum is here to help if you wish to learn and to demonstrate your networking abilities and development.
That is why I write this topic about moving and making network with Preppers help each others.

But as I remember there is no option to network in real and find Preppers that you can Trust becasue that will be metting with forum member...
And in real life as I wrote 99% people want to make Fun and "show must go on" Not Seeing what is gooing On.
Yes I can make network with 85-90 year old people becasue that is 1% that is SEEING what is going on....
That is why I think best people are here at forum...

that i'm in black hole with time is ending with no acces to forum ( becasue there was One mistake ) for what I was canceled.
And I must proff that I can Network and development ( even I was doing it before )

I dont like write in english becasue it is hard for me to write what i'm thinking becasue i dont know so much this lang.
and dont have so much time becasue I'm working lots of time.. per day.. and dont have time to read /write at work.

Sorry for that angry post, but that I feel.. now.. ; /

Greeting
Łukasz not "Lucas/Blacki/Lukas/Bobo/Icedesert"
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
#7
Icedesert said:
But as I remember there is no option to network in real and find Preppers that you can Trust becasue that will be metting with forum member...
Actually, that is not the case. FOTCM members have regular meetings, activities, etc. However, your brief 'stay' in the FOTCM forum did not turn out well.

Icedesert said:
That is why I think best people are here at forum...
They are and we try to be as careful as possible when organizing or sanctioning meetings for the safety of all. That means we have to use various criteria to evaluate who we will or will not encourage to get together under whatever conditions. The early 'signals' you sent out were not the sort that inspire confidence.

The question you need to ask yourself is: would other people WANT me as a member of their network? What have I done to inspire confidence and friendliness?

Icedesert said:
that i'm in black hole with time is ending with no acces to forum ( becasue there was One mistake ) for what I was canceled.

And I must proff that I can Network and development ( even I was doing it before )
Your second sentence is contradicted by the first one. You were 'networking', or so you thought, and mistakes were made because you were not paying attention which caused a loss of confidence in your judgment.

Icedesert said:
I dont like write in english becasue it is hard for me to write what i'm thinking becasue i dont know so much this lang.
Then obviously you are handicapped to network here, yes? That is not an incurable condition. Where there is a will, there is a way. But you do not seem to have any will at all for those things that matter.
 

rrraven

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
#8
a quick search gave me this
-http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Europe20000ya.png/250px-Europe20000ya.png

a map of the last glacial maximum refugia
Last Glacial Maximum refugia were places where people survived during the last glacial period in the northern hemisphere, around 20–25,000 years ago.
Sub-Saharan Africa and Australia were not affected by the glaciation (although vast areas of those continents were then too dry for human habitation of any sort including the most primitive foragers) and the Americas and New Zealand had no humans at that time
 
#9
Laura said:
Why do you want to move? Just to preserve your own life?

Those who show themselves to be useful to the Cosmos and the Living System will be guided.
I agree with this. The c's say that it isn't where you are, but who you are that matters. The C's also say to just keep doing what comes natural and the future will take care of itself.

Personally, I think there's a lot to be said for living in a community that is already very familiar with harsh winter weather as they're already well equipped with snowplows, trackers, back-up systems and so forth. If you relocate to a town that is not equipped to deal with harsh winter weather, you could be much worse off.

Also, it's hard to predict in advance. You might choose a town that looks safe now, but may not be safe in 3 years from now. Additionally, every region is prone to it's own potential environmental threats like volcanoes, earth quakes, etc.. The economy is another grave threat with each country, city, and town having their own troubles. Living in a coastal area can be hazardous, and the list goes on.
 

Corvus

Jedi Council Member
#10
I agree with this. The c's say that it isn't where you are, but who you are that matters. The C's also say to just keep doing what comes natural and the future will take care of itself. Personally, I think there's a lot to be said for living in a community that is already very familiar with harsh winter weather as they're already well equipped with snowplows, trackers, back-up systems and so forth. If you relocate to a town that is not equipped to deal with harsh winter weather, you could be much worse off.

Also, it's hard to predict in advance. You might choose a town that looks safe now, but may not be safe in 3 years from now. Additionally, every region is prone to it's own potential environmental threats like volcanoes, earth quakes, etc.. The economy is another grave threat with each country, city, and town having their own troubles. Living in a coastal area can be hazardous, and the list goes on.
They also said what you see is important and from that it is logical to asses what you do, nobody is going to take care of you if you do not do it yourself, so I like that saying:"Universe is helping those who are helping themselves". But it is all relative and ironical sometimes as said, something unexpected always poops up and you are in no way protected because others also have their choices and will.

The recent SOTT article on how to prepare for the coming storm has a couple of paragraphs on the topic. From the map you can see that all of Northern Europe and parts of Central Europe are covered in ice so IMO if you are thinking of moving to prepare for an ice age I would consider locations further South than Poland, ideally somewhere in the Mediterranean.

It will be interesting to see how this winter is going to play out. I spent the last 7 years in the UK after moving back home in Luxembourg which is only slightly further south, not an ideal location to live under an ice age. I realise that moving to a different area (for many that means to a different country) is very hard both financially and culturally but it's a choice that most will eventually be forced to face.
As Laura just said, it would however be worth for you to stop worrying about such events and focus your energy and efforts on doing Work which is much more important than wasting precious time on thinking how to preserve the physical body.
Some above statements are in a way contradictory because they sound like it would be a good thing to move but do not concentrate so at physical body while I am doing everything I can to preserve myself in that way. It was actually a bit of funny reading it. It is in human nature to look for preservation and many people think it is easy choice to make between body or spirit while in reality when facing that situation things easily change if not in full control of oneself. Either way many of us are not going to make it out alive so I think there is nothing to be particularly upset to much, it will be at least fun trying.

My parents cant move because they don't belief in ice age, my sistre are in berlin and other live with my parents.
I live alone then I don't have "others" to move with me. Don't have children, woman.
Maybe it would be a good idea to look after your family and sisters in those times, getting family together and working with them when time comes, not just leaving them(it sounds a bit selfish and some fear coming out)? Strength is in numbers and those are people you can only for sure count on.
 

Eboard10

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
#11
Corvinus said:
The recent SOTT article on how to prepare for the coming storm has a couple of paragraphs on the topic. From the map you can see that all of Northern Europe and parts of Central Europe are covered in ice so IMO if you are thinking of moving to prepare for an ice age I would consider locations further South than Poland, ideally somewhere in the Mediterranean.

It will be interesting to see how this winter is going to play out. I spent the last 7 years in the UK after moving back home in Luxembourg which is only slightly further south, not an ideal location to live under an ice age. I realise that moving to a different area (for many that means to a different country) is very hard both financially and culturally but it's a choice that most will eventually be forced to face.
As Laura just said, it would however be worth for you to stop worrying about such events and focus your energy and efforts on doing Work which is much more important than wasting precious time on thinking how to preserve the physical body.
Some above statements are in a way contradictory because they sound like it would be a good thing to move but do not concentrate so at physical body while I am doing everything I can to preserve myself in that way. It was actually a bit of funny reading it. It is in human nature to look for preservation and many people think it is easy choice to make between body or spirit while in reality when facing that situation things easily change if not in full control of oneself. Either way many of us are not going to make it out alive so I think there is nothing to be particularly upset to much, it will be at least fun trying.
Corvinius, you are indeed right. Initially I was just going t reply to Icedesert's post on the spread of the ice sheets and only added the last sentence after I had read Laura's post. It is human instinct's natural reaction to worry about it's own physical preservation and I felt a bit stupid that it hadn't come to mind to begin with. :/
 

Anthony

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
#12
Yes but since we know that people's inner state can be attracting electrical phenomena
it won't do any good to change your location. Besides you would need to be pretty good
at predicting the future (where comets will hit, plagues, dust, ice etc.), you would also need to take into
account of what sort of people live in a country and much much more.

Though you may cross vast spaces of sea, and though, as our Virgil remarks: “Lands and cities are left astern,” your faults will follow you wherever you travel. - Seneca
 

Blacki

Dagobah Resident
#13
Laura said:
you were not paying attention
Hmm that is the point thx for good feedback lots of think for me.

Anthony said:
Yes but since we know that people's inner state can be attracting electrical phenomena
it won't do any good to change your location. Besides you would need to be pretty good
at predicting the future (where comets will hit, plagues, dust, ice etc.), you would also need to take into
account of what sort of people live in a country and much much more.

Though you may cross vast spaces of sea, and though, as our Virgil remarks: “Lands and cities are left astern,” your faults will follow you wherever you travel. - Seneca
We will see what will happend good point with comets hit.

Then for now I will look for the job in Poland (Krakow) and if I dont get then still in Gdansk.
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
#14
Hi Icedesert,

In the Dutch language we have a famous poem about your predicament which has been translated into English by David Colmer in a prize winning translation.
The poem is said to be based on a very old tale by Rumi. It's also rumored to be even more ancient (sorry, Dutch source only).

The Gardener and Death

A Persian Nobleman:

This morning, with a face turned pale from fright,
My gardener rushed in, "Sir, if I might!

"At work, just now, I stopped to take a breath,
And looked up from the roses. There stood Death.

"Startled, I quickly left the work I'd planned,
But saw full well the menace of his hand.

"Lend me a horse and I will make it run.
Before night falls I'll be in Ispahan!"

This afternoon (I'd long since watched him flee),
I chanced on Death beneath a cedar tree.

When he just stood there in his cloak of grey,
I asked about the threat he'd made that day.

He smiled, "It was not threat as he surmised.
I raised my hand because I was surprised,

"To find a man here working in the sun,
Whom I must fetch tonight in Ispahan."

Translation: © David Colmer, 2007
You may find the original Dutch poem, the jury findings and the 18 other contesting translations here. Just use the drop down menu right below the header to find them all.

Some info about David Colmer (google for more if wanted):

_http://archipelagobooks.org/david-colmer-wins-2013-vondel-translation-prize/
_http://www.theaustralian.com.au/arts/translator-david-colmer-shares-impac-for-turning-dutch-novel-into-english/story-e6frg8n6-1225881066054


I also managed to find a translation into Latin here:

Hortulanus et Mors

Vir Persa nobilis :

Hoc mane hortulanus meus, pallidus
pavore, domum irruit et protinus :

~Me audias ! Quietus in rosario
dum operor, respectans … Mortem video.

Horrescens fugio per partem alteram ;
minantem tamen manum eius videram.

Da equum tuum : avehar hinc ilico
et ante noctem Ispahan pervenero ! ~

Meridie – iam diu erat profugus -
in horte meo Morti fui obvius.

Cum staret silens, “Quare” sic interrogo
“minata es hoc mane meo famulo ?”

Subridens illa : “Minas non edideram,
cum hortulanus fugeret. Stupueram

hic mane videns occupatum opere,
qui Ispahan tollendus esset vespere.”
Learning can be fun, don't you agree? ;)

Running away just won't do any good to nobody...as was already stated by others.

Hope this helps a bit. :)
 

l apprenti de forgeron

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#15
Corvinus said:
Some above statements are in a way contradictory because they sound like it would be a good thing to move but do not concentrate so at physical body while I am doing everything I can to preserve myself in that way. It was actually a bit of funny reading it. It is in human nature to look for preservation and many people think it is easy choice to make between body or spirit while in reality when facing that situation things easily change if not in full control of oneself. Either way many of us are not going to make it out alive so I think there is nothing to be particularly upset to much, it will be at least fun trying.
Agree (also on what you said about family). Maybe that be good to work the acceptance of death into the narrative exercises. The death as inevitable for most of us, and given the times we live in, which can occur at any time, achieve a good acceptance of this and continue forward. Go beyond the identification with the physical body and merrily keep learning everything as we can in what we have left on this plane. I also know that it is easy to say and hard to do (the horses give incredible kicking for work on much less important things). But it is possible to do it, and give better quality of life for all concerned.

Palinurus said:
In the Dutch language we have a famous poem about your predicament which has been translated into English by David Colmer in a prize winning translation.
The poem is said to be based on a very old tale by Rumi. It's also rumored to be even more ancient (sorry, Dutch source only).

The Gardener and Death
And thank you for the poem, Palinurus!
 
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