Who is going to love the reptilians

[Sol Logos]

(...God couldn't be fragmented in parts at any point in time...)
true, He wasn't, He isn't, and He never will be fragmented, it can't be and that is the point "there is no fragments", in truth there is nothing so that it can be fragmented in the first place
for example try to imagine a planet, then populate it, then set it in motion, are you fragmented now?, or rather have you been fragmented at any of these stages?,

Yeah good point. You have one who imagines (dreamer), then the thing that is imagined (dream). The dreamer's existence isn't dependant on whether the dream exists or not.

I guess a more better question will be : are you really the one who did all of this?, btw what happened to the planet when you stopped thinking about it ?, was it freezed or destroyed ?, where does it even go when you think about something else ?
anyway you are still a whole (or should we call an ambulance? :D) , yet somehow fragments were produced, now consider terms like "sacrifice", "consciousness reading units", "focus points"..etc

If we take the perspective of dreamer / imaginer as God being accurate, then no. A part of a dream can't have created the dreamer.

(...we can't know and sense the whole universe and all it contains from every possible infinite angle...)
we can't, and we don't even have to, you just said it (I assume that is what "God's" perspective would be), so as long as we still considering "we", we remain under "our" prospective

It doesn't actually follow if we take your initial analogy. It wouldn't matter how the dream fragment considers him/her/itself's identity.

(...that process would in the same way be ongoing in an infinite way as well..)
yes.. I think.. as long as there is "God's perspective" and "our prospective" which always considered to be far from each other (and this is the truth) and you even used the word "closer and closer" to help them reach each other

This I suppose might be verifiable by a person reaching that personal experience - i.e. a person who has reached a point of completely objectivity, otherwise for the time being it's still a conjecture I feel.

Oh this may help : (I said "to literally become God" and not "to turn yourself into God".. that's not going to happen or will require infinity maybe as you said, anyway there is a very big difference, we need to work on ourselves (I mean by that the fragments), not to turn ourselves into Gods, but to gain control over ourselves for a certain purpose, think about this for a while)

No disrespect intended, but I'd have to question as above if you've literally become God yourself? If not, for me it's still a conjecture among other possible conjectures.

(...difficult talking in infinites... involve speculation... subjective take)
of course.. when still considering the finite, and you clarified a lot of things, so yes that was subjective indeed ;)

The idea of simply a shift in perception makes one literally become "all that is", can be an attractive idea, especially if, which is the case for many of us, we feel sometimes the opposite of that, unnoticed, insignificant, unheard etc. I don't reckon that's what we are, but I believe for many, including myself, from time to time feel that way. So I reckon a lot of us can get drawn to conclusions like that, even if we haven't personally experienced them as a reality, because they help us cope with these sort of feelings like being inferior etc.

 

[Scribblenauts]

Well.. your point of view is valid, yet I meant things in a more simple ways than that

Yeah good point. You have one who imagines (dreamer), then the thing that is imagined (dream). The dreamer's existence isn't dependant on whether the dream exists or not.

- I can't relate God to dreams / imaginations, yet assuming so, I can say God will not be the dreamer, God will be "the dream itself", else how can I say that everything shall return to God, if He is the dreamer then everything will just go with dream and not return to Him, did the population of the planet you imagined returned to / became you when it was over?

If we take the perspective of dreamer / imaginer as God being accurate, then no. A part of a dream can't have created the dreamer.

- what I meant here is something like : there is a part inside of us that is God (I mean who did the whole process?), maybe you didn't notice

It doesn't actually follow if we take your initial analogy. It wouldn't matter how the dream fragment considers him/her/itself's identity.

- I don't get what you mean here, but what I meant was we assume a lot of false concepts designed to define us as fragments, turning us away from the truth which is there are no fragments (predator's mind maybe!)

This I suppose might be verifiable by a person reaching that personal experience - i.e. a person who has reached a point of completely objectivity, otherwise for the time being it's still a conjecture I feel.

- the person has to get rid from the person, because persons can't reach such level / point, persons only can get closer to it but not reach it, personal advancement of humans isn't designed to reach complete objectivity, it has its limits

No disrespect intended, but I'd have to question as above if you've literally become God yourself? If not, for me it's still a conjecture among other possible conjectures.

- Oh! don't even worry about it, anyway.. well no, I didn't become God myself, I became God Himself, but so everything else, that makes me wonder what do you expect God to be like? a person?, a scripture?, a song ? a road sign? do you get what I mean? :)

The idea of simply a shift in perception makes one literally become "all that is", can be an attractive idea, especially if, which is the case for many of us, we feel sometimes the opposite of that, unnoticed, insignificant, unheard etc. I don't reckon that's what we are, but I believe for many, including myself, from time to time feel that way. So I reckon a lot of us can get drawn to conclusions like that, even if we haven't personally experienced them as a reality, because they help us cope with these sort of feelings like being inferior etc.

- this is a very good point indeed, thank you,
the truth is : the more you get closer to becoming God, the more you become God like, what I mean is : the way people deal with God, the way they will deal with you (and this is your sign to know whether you are on track or not), I mean for example what do people know about God?, people don't know much about God (if not any at all) so when you get closer to becoming God you will discover that people don't know a lot about you, how often people communicate with God?, so when you get closer to becoming God people will seldom communicate with you
You become a reflection for the divine when people deal with you exactly the same way they deal with the divine, those who love the divine will love you, those who deny the divine will deny you and.. so on

- to literally become "all that is" is simply let "all that is" become you

 

[Sol Logos]

Scribblenauts, I missed your analogy it seems. I figured you we're making a comparison between the exercise of imagining a world with people on it (in my mind) with our relationship to God / DCM and how we and the universe are created in a similar manner. Was just easier to say dreamer / dream rather than imaginer / imagined when talking about it, but same idea I feel.

So with that analogy, I was mostly referring to how when we have dreams, we exist independent from the dream's backdrop and characters. In that sense, hypothetically, say a character in your dream is convinced he is the one that created your dream. Say too, you were completely lucid and aware it was your dream and you were watching this guy tell other characters they could also realise they were the dream creators like he had done. You could leave them be or better yet go Old Testament and smite them all for their insubordination !! :)

Seriously though, that's kind of what I was getting at by extending your analogy.

I didn't become God myself, I became God Himself, but so everything else, that makes me wonder what do you expect God to be like? a person?, a scripture?, a song ? a road sign? do you get what I mean? :)

I don't know if you're being altogether sincere with this comment. Anyhow, I've no real expectations like those you mention. All I do know for sure is we have the possibility to exercise our free will, which is an incredible gift if you think about it. That says something of the giver for me.

 

[Scribblenauts]

Scribblenauts, I missed your analogy it seems. I figured you we're making a comparison between the exercise of imagining a world with people on it (in my mind) with our relationship to God / DCM and how we and the universe are created in a similar manner. Was just easier to say dreamer / dream rather than imaginer / imagined when talking about it, but same idea I feel.

So with that analogy, I was mostly referring to how when we have dreams, we exist independent from the dream's backdrop and characters. In that sense, hypothetically, say a character in your dream is convinced he is the one that created your dream. Say too, you were completely lucid and aware it was your dream and you were watching this guy tell other characters they could also realise they were the dream creators like he had done. You could leave them be or better yet go Old Testament and smite them all for their insubordination !! :)

Seriously though, that's kind of what I was getting at by extending your analogy.

I didn't become God myself, I became God Himself, but so everything else, that makes me wonder what do you expect God to be like? a person?, a scripture?, a song ? a road sign? do you get what I mean? :)

I don't know if you're being altogether sincere with this comment. Anyhow, I've no real expectations like those you mention. All I do know for sure is we have the possibility to exercise our free will, which is an incredible gift if you think about it. That says something of the giver for me.

Good points, thank you
(how we and the universe are created in a similar manner)
- I don't think we are, it's not a "dream state", it's more of a "thought process", like solving a problem, we literally started at some point for some reason and we're going somewhere for some reason (this imply us emerging from a pervious thought process and going to give birth to another)

(independent from the dream's backdrop and characters... smite them all for their insubordination)
- What does it mean to be your dream?
and will that mean that the others in your dream are like from somewhere else? intruders? where do you think they are from? why do you still feel separate / independent from them anyway?
what if one of them did as you said, what do you think made him say and do so?
if you are the one who created the dream, why did you create such persons?
I mean did you really create the dream, or just found yourself in control of it? what can you tell us about the dream?
being the creator of / aware of being in a dream, will you call yourself the dreamer? is there a dreamer?
well you have the power to smite, but will you smite? what can that tell us about Choices ?

(I don't know if you're being altogether sincere... That says something of the giver for me.)
anyone can say I am God, do you think they will be liars?
God can and does say that I am everything and everyone, true or false?
so if one says I am God, I may wonder myself was that him speaking, or was that God speaking?
if God is talking to us, how do you think he does so? a voice ? an image? how do we listen then? with ears? eyes?
what is the opposite of free will ? anyway do you think this free will will contradict the will of the divine? how then can it be free will? is it a gift then or an illusion? so what this says about the giver of such gift?

 

[Menna]

If God is talking to us, how do you think he does so? a voice ? an image? how do we listen then? with ears? eyes?
There is a story that I heard once that has stuck with me and in a way makes a lot of sense.

There was this priest who lived in a small town. In the town there was a large lake with a dam. As the priest was preparing for Sunday service the towns sirens went off alerting everyone that the damn was breaking and that the town would flood within the hour. When hearing the sirens the priest prayed "God please save me and this town" As the church started to fill with water he climbed the ladder to the roof and waited for God to save him. Shortly after he made it to the roof a fellow church going man came up to the church in a row boat and said "Get in we have to get out of here" The priest said "No God will save me." 15min later the water keeps rising and a speed boat comes along and the three people inside say "Jump in or you will die." The priest says "God will save me." Now 50min after the dam broke the water is starting to overflow onto the roof. As the priest backs up to the highest point on the roof he sees a rescue helicopter. The man inside throws down a ladder and says "Climb up or you will die." The priest says "God will save me." After the helicopter flies away the water rises higher then any building in town and the priest drowns. As he enters into heaven the priest asks God "How come you didn't save me?" God replies "I sent the row boat, speed boat and helicopter!"

End of story...

Now trying to think of your quoted questions logically. There is no proper explanation for who created us this "God" there are symbols, analogys, philosophy's and so on. No one on this 3D earth can possibly explain who the creator is how can we it is out of the scope of our understanding. Also, how can we expect this creator this "God" To literally speak to us here on 3D earth? Does he have a mouth does he speak English or Spanish. From the story above I believe that the universe speaks to us by creating events and opportunities for us to experience and seize. If the creator "God" created the universe then I believe "God" Speaks to us through life events, symbolism, experiences and opportunities or misfortunes. Because "God." The Universe make these these experiences and events. The symbolism/meaning/opportunities are up to the individual to recognize (Free will) I believe " God" talks by providing you with a chance to recognize something for its objectivity and then use your free will to make a choice.

FWIW I read that here on 3D is the density where our being grows the most spiritually. Not saying I believe it but I guess it might help if its thought about

 

[Sol Logos]

- I don't think we are, it's not a "dream state", it's more of a "thought process", like solving a problem, we literally started at some point for some reason and we're going somewhere for some reason (this imply us emerging from a pervious thought process and going to give birth to another)

I was mostly talking about the dreamer having a dream from your analogy but if you prefer, projecting something from our minds or solving something through a thought process - this works too.

- What does it mean to be your dream?
and will that mean that the others in your dream are like from somewhere else? intruders? where do you think they are from? why do you still feel separate / independent from them anyway?
what if one of them did as you said, what do you think made him say and do so?
if you are the one who created the dream, why did you create such persons?
I mean did you really create the dream, or just found yourself in control of it? what can you tell us about the dream?
being the creator of / aware of being in a dream, will you call yourself the dreamer? is there a dreamer?
well you have the power to smite, but will you smite? what can that tell us about Choices ?

On the same analogy, our dreamer wakes up, his dream is collapsed, it no longer exists. So our dreamer isn't dependent on the dream existing, since he woke up. The dream and it's characters do however need a dreamer to exist. This may or may not relate to our relationship with the Divine Cosmic Mind - in the end, its really an idea based on this analogy, among of course, many other potentially plausible ideas.

anyone can say I am God, do you think they will be liars?
God can and does say that I am everything and everyone, true or false?
so if one says I am God, I may wonder myself was that him speaking, or was that God speaking?
if God is talking to us, how do you think he does so? a voice ? an image? how do we listen then? with ears? eyes?
what is the opposite of free will ? anyway do you think this free will will contradict the will of the divine? how then can it be free will? is it a gift then or an illusion? so what this says about the giver of such gift?

I would ask you instead Scribblenauts, would your conduct here so far demonstrate to me that you are God, as you have been claiming?

There is a story that I heard once that has stuck with me and in a way makes a lot of sense.

There was this priest who lived in a small town. In the town there was a large lake with a dam. As the priest was preparing for Sunday service the towns sirens went off alerting everyone that the damn was breaking and that the town would flood within the hour. When hearing the sirens the priest prayed "God please save me and this town" As the church started to fill with water he climbed the ladder to the roof and waited for God to save him. Shortly after he made it to the roof a fellow church going man came up to the church in a row boat and said "Get in we have to get out of here" The priest said "No God will save me." 15min later the water keeps rising and a speed boat comes along and the three people inside say "Jump in or you will die." The priest says "God will save me." Now 50min after the dam broke the water is starting to overflow onto the roof. As the priest backs up to the highest point on the roof he sees a rescue helicopter. The man inside throws down a ladder and says "Climb up or you will die." The priest says "God will save me." After the helicopter flies away the water rises higher then any building in town and the priest drowns. As he enters into heaven the priest asks God "How come you didn't save me?" God replies "I sent the row boat, speed boat and helicopter!"

End of story...

Now trying to think of your quoted questions logically. There is no proper explanation for who created us this "God" there are symbols, analogys, philosophy's and so on. No one on this 3D earth can possibly explain who the creator is how can we it is out of the scope of our understanding. Also, how can we expect this creator this "God" To literally speak to us here on 3D earth? Does he have a mouth does he speak English or Spanish. From the story above I believe that the universe speaks to us by creating events and opportunities for us to experience and seize. If the creator "God" created the universe then I believe "God" Speaks to us through life events, symbolism, experiences and opportunities or misfortunes. Because "God." The Universe make these these experiences and events. The symbolism/meaning/opportunities are up to the individual to recognize (Free will) I believe " God" talks by providing you with a chance to recognize something for its objectivity and then use your free will to make a choice.

I agree with you Menna. That makes a great deal of sense.

 

[Menna]

To correct myself recognizing meaning/symbolysm/opportunity is not free will I believe that to be perfecting your machine and this leads you to then recognize this recognition then leads to your choice (Free will)

 

[Sol Logos]

To correct myself recognizing meaning/symbolysm/opportunity is not free will I believe that to be perfecting your machine and this leads you to then recognize this recognition then leads to your choice (Free will)

I thought it made sense the first time :)

But to clarify:

Being able to stand back and see our machine in operation, gives us first the opportunity to make choices that aren't set by our machine's automatic responses, and by doing so, secondly, the window to our free will being utilised can then be opened... Was it something along those lines?

 

[Scribblenauts]

There is a story that I heard once that has stuck with me and in a way makes a lot of sense.

There was this priest who ... "I sent the row boat, speed boat and helicopter!" End of story...

... I believe "God" Speaks to us through life events, symbolism, experiences and ... free will to make a choice.

FWIW I read that here on 3D is the density where our being grows the most spiritually. Not saying I believe it but I guess it might help if its thought about

- You got the idea Menna, yet you talk free will, if we are to apply this to your story, the divine will was for the priest to drown, it seemed that it was what the priest chose, yet it is not, though God sent the rescue because that was what the priest asked for, yet the priest's lack of knowledge about the nature of God was the factor behind the illusion of free will, I guess, one way or another the priest was "saved" ;)
what we can say here is "we are all here to do what we are all here to do", sounds familiar?!

- agree, but I would say we are here on 3D because we are not grown enough to be anywhere else, so yes we need to grow, but growth will just take us to another place, right?

 

[Scribblenauts]

I was mostly talking about the dreamer having a dream from your analogy but if you prefer, projecting something from our minds or solving something through a thought process - this works too.

so I suppose you got the idea that the thought process of solving a problem is a populated universe in itself, yet different from a dream in having a certain purpose.. (try to scope out of the dream)

On the same analogy, our dreamer wakes up, his dream is collapsed, it no longer exists. So our dreamer isn't dependent on the dream existing, since he woke up. The dream and it's characters do however need a dreamer to exist. This may or may not relate to our relationship with the Divine Cosmic Mind - in the end, its really an idea based on this analogy, among of course, many other potentially plausible ideas.

who said it is no longer exists?, he wakes up from the dream into another dream, he will just keep waking up, your attention is focused so much on the dreamer that you will not help him find out about his true nature

I would ask you instead Scribblenauts, would your conduct here so far demonstrate to me that you are God, as you have been claiming?

yes, but so does yours and everyone else, you still want to find God outside yourself, that's not true but if you insist he is everywhere, you see!

 

[Scribblenauts]

To correct myself recognizing meaning/symbolysm/opportunity is not free will I believe that to be perfecting your machine and this leads you to then recognize this recognition then leads to your choice (Free will)

- perfecting your machine helps perfecting the whole, in fact perfection means to be a normal 3D human yet aware of your truth i.e the divine.. the infinite who dwells in the finite, and that is the problem.. realizing the perfection
One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious ~ Carl Jung

 

[Scribblenauts]

I thought it made sense the first time :)
But to clarify:
Being able to stand back and see our machine in operation, gives us first the opportunity to make choices that aren't set by our machine's automatic responses, and by doing so, secondly, the window to our free will being utilised can then be opened... Was it something along those lines?

everyone of us is designed in a special way the makes them unique in some sense, such uniqueness is meant for helping the individual functioning in a certain manner and thus helping him "decide" his whole life, so all our decisions were already made the moment we were designed, that leaves no choices.. or free will in life, I guess!

 

[Sol Logos]

I thought it made sense the first time :)
But to clarify:
Being able to stand back and see our machine in operation, gives us first the opportunity to make choices that aren't set by our machine's automatic responses, and by doing so, secondly, the window to our free will being utilised can then be opened... Was it something along those lines?

everyone of us is designed in a special way the makes them unique in some sense, such uniqueness is meant for helping the individual functioning in a certain manner and thus helping him "decide" his whole life, so all our decisions were already made the moment we were designed, that leaves no choices.. or free will in life, I guess!

Everything being determined and no free will is a point of view. Its also a point of view to then say, "no, because we are in essence God, our will is the same as God's will, so from that perspective, free will exists in us". Free will is and isnt etc. You'll find these points of view aren't new to many here, so many won't chime into this dialogue. We might go back and forth on such points of view and achieve little else, so that's why forumites wont find value in contributing to this. There's many such debates here already. I suppose I got curious given your insistence you are God, without a great deal of personal reflection, perhaps it reminds me of my own arrogance. For now though, I'm chiming out of this too. There's a lot for me to learn as to why I felt I needed to discuss this to this point.

 

[Scribblenauts]

... we are in essence God, our will is the same as God's will, so from that perspective, free will exists in us". Free will is and isnt etc... discuss this to this point.

- So it's God that has freewill then, expressed through us, can we say God is the process itself!
"God depends on us. It is through us that God is achieved." ~ Andre Gide
- and I never spoke of God as a fragment, God is infinite so reducing Him to a fragment is invalid
- If one says to me I am God I wouldn't focus on him, rather I would search inside... did I ask God to reveal himself to me or to help me somehow? if not then I'll immediately dismiss the rest of it
- in the light of my understanding of the term personal reflection, I don't know about me but you are the one who helped me with it, so thank you.
I mentioned something about the person have to get rid of the person or personality, is it related?
- I hope this contributed to your learning as it did to me, otherwise I'm horribly sorry for wasting so much of your time
- Good choice btw!

 

[Menna]

Alkhemst- Do you believe that conscious/objective free will is something that is earned? If so then the earning going through situations realizing the truth of each situation and then a deeper truth about life is not free will in my opinion it is the choices you make after you have reached a certain point on the learning curve and then you can exercise your free will...That's why I corrected myself bc I believe my previous explanation was wrong per my understanding and I want people to know my current understanding because My understanding can be wrong and if others know that I'm wrong in my understanding then I can be corrected and continue to work towards exercising my free will ....G talked about in his book "Life is real" that his life could only improve in the way he wanted if he did away with his hypnotizing and manipulating to get what he wants if he could improve himself to develop in the moment hind-site and this in the moment hind-site one of his aims to be the Ultimate free will

Scribble - I disagree. Have you ever been around someone who says what they want but their actions say something different...IMO the priest did chose to die he chose to wishfully think about the nature if religion and god he had to learn up to the certain point he was at and he chose (Free Will) to stop learning anymore and this lead to his death. So in a way he did chose to do. He died because of the illusion of his personal truth his personal paradigm that was the illusion and his free will choice to stay there is what killed him.

I believe that when you say we are here to do what we are here to do I believe to only be part of the equation there is more to it and it being life our role and all that jazz