Who was Buddha, Siddharta Gautama, who gave rise to Buddhism, and what did he really teach?

[thorbiorn]

From the experience with research into Christianity, we now know that the figure called Jesus was a composite of characters including Julius Caesar who obviously did not walk around in the area of Palestine which was an aspect borrowed from the life of another person. What if the story of Buddha is not less complex? I could not find any thread about the topic of Buddhas identity so here we are.

The Wiki about The Buddha. has

Siddhartha Gautama,[e] most commonly referred to as the Buddha (lit. 'the awakened one'),[4][f][g] was a wandering ascetic and religious teacher who lived in South Asia[h] during the 6th or 5th century BCE[5][6][7][c] and founded Buddhism. According to Buddhist legends, he was born in Lumbini, in what is now Nepal, to royal parents of the Shakya clan, but renounced his home life to live as a wandering ascetic.[8] After leading a life of mendicancy, asceticism, and meditation, he attained nirvana at Bodh Gayā in what is now India. The Buddha then wandered through the lower Indo-Gangetic Plain, teaching and building a monastic order. Buddhist tradition holds he died in Kushinagar and reached parinirvana ("final release from conditioned existence").[9][j]

Below is what I could find of references to Buddha, Buddhism and Buddhists in the transcripts. Nothing is related to who Buddha was as a historical person, but if there is a need to branch out from the main question it can be done.

Jesus is in a state of suspension, voluntarily, in another plane of existence as is a number of others including Buddha
Session 30 September 1994

Q: (L) Is Jesus, in fact, in a state of suspension, voluntarily, in another plane of existence, having chosen to give up his life on this plane in order to continuously generate replications of his soul pattern for other people to call upon for assistance?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) If one calls upon him more than once, does one get a double dose?

A: Define.

Q: (L) If one repeatedly calls upon Jesus does one get repeated replications or additional strength, power or whatever?

A: No.

Q: (L) In other words, once one has truly made the connection, that's it?

A: That's all that's needed.

Q: (L) Has any other soul volunteered to perform this work?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) How many souls are doing this work at the present time?

A: 12.

Q: (L) Can you name any of the others?

A: Buddha. Moses. Shintanhilmoon.14 Nagaillikiga.15 Varying degrees; Jesus is the strongest currently.

Any method employed can be helpful for, as you say, resolving issues or with coming up with answers, if indeed the effort is sincere and the seeking is genuine
Session 12 August 1995

Q: (SV) I have a question. Jan and Terry have been taking sort of lessons from a Buddhist monk. Could this possibly help them, or us, to go within or help with issues?

A: Any method employed can be helpful for, as you say, resolving issues or with coming up with answers, if indeed the effort is sincere and the seeking is genuine, rather than just going through the motions, as it were.

Buddhist versus Chinese understanding of energy: According to the Chinese, there are five movements of energy. Is this correct? - Close enough. (The passage preceding the question about Buddhis and Chinese understanding brings up meditation, and may be tangentially related, also to the previous excerpt about method.)
Session 25 August 2006

Q: {Laura and Andromeda discussing whether to ask about A*****} (Perceval) I’d like to know what causes Andromeda’s back pains and chest issues?

A: Stress mostly.

Q: (Andromeda) Will the visit to the osteopath help? Is it mostly to do with … something physical? (Perceval) No, it’s stress.

A: Meditation is the solution in this case.

Q: (Perceval) Meditating… (Galahad) Meditate on what makes you stressed. (Laura) Don’t ask what makes her stressed, geez, Galahad, we don’t have all day. (Galahad) No, no no. That’s not… Perceval was saying what should she meditate about. So I was saying, on what she’s stressed about. (Perceval) OK. You’ve got to remember… (Laura) All right. Next? (Atriedes) All right. I’ll go. In the Chinese movements of energy, there are five. The Buddhists have it a bit different. Which one is correct or are they both wrong? (Laura) That’s two questions, first of all. And it’s not really specific. Break it down. (Atriedes) According to the Chinese, there are five movements of energy. Is this correct?

A: Close enough.

Q: (Atriedes) Were the two extra meridians added in to corrupt it or to make it better?

A: Corruption, adding elements of another sphere.

Q: (Atriedes) When someone strikes a pressure point and knocks somebody out, what is the cause of the person going unconscious?

A: Central nervous system shock.

Q: So it doesn’t have anything to do with pressure points at all?

A: Yes.

Q: But does it have anything to do with the cycle of the five energies?

A: Yes.

In both Christianity and Buddhism there appear to be two trends, one emphasizes the necessity of being in the world, the other advocates a more withdrawn life
Session 6 December 2014

(L) Okay, that leads me to another question. I’ve been reading all this stuff about biblical criticism. What was discussed in the chapter I just finished was the fact that there was a conflict between certain sayings that were attributed to Jesus in the text of the gospels and also in the Book of Acts. Whatever is in there reflects something that was going on at the time of writing, and not authentic reporting about anyone called Jesus. In short, what the gospels say represent much later concerns of the authors of those texts. Without going into a whole lot of detail, there are two things, two ways of living, that are kind of in opposition within those texts. First, there are the many sayings where they talk about how you have to give up all your money, your goods, and become basically like a cynic philosopher and wander up and down the roads and convert people... Like Jesus talking to the rich man and saying, "Go and sell all you own, and follow me." And then there are injunctions in other places where it says that an individual who does not take care of his family and who does not take care of the real world - kind of like the obyvatel concept of Gurdjieff - is committing a worse sin than not believing in Jesus. It's dishonoring your parents, your family, and so forth. So there are these two completely diametrically opposed points of view in the texts, and they pop up at odd times. It’s like the cynic version is the gentile point of view, and the strict obedience to the law (honor your father and mother, etc), is the Judaizing point of view.

The way that this particular analyst – Robert Price - resolved it was to point out that in Buddhism, which started about 600 BC, went along for several hundred years as a very tough ascetic way of achieving Nirvana, whatever. The whole thing is all about Nirvana, being a monk, withdrawing from the world, meditating, and whatever in order to achieve this Nirvana to get free of the whole earthly cycle; to become nothing, to merge into cosmic mind, or whatever. Then about 100 BC, there was a “new revelation” in Buddhism. Another kind of Buddhism came into being and began to be promulgated. It was The Way of the Bodhisattva, which is that a person could deliberately choose to remain in the world - in other words, stop thinking about getting out of the world every minute of the day, and think about remaining in the world with a commitment to be as perfect as you possibly can, knowing that by not withdrawing into a monkish-type situation, that, yes, you may live many more lifetimes, but you will do them as service to others. I think that the idea was that this was a more benevolent way to be a Buddhist, at least one that ordinary people could follow though the purists of the original form declared it to be cheating or a rationalization at the time. It’s now pretty well accepted. So, both kinds of Buddhism are now being practiced, but the idea of serving others by not withdrawing into the monastery seems to be dominant. So then it just basically comes back to there's a high road, and a low road.

(Pierre) Yeah, and it's called the Great Vehicle and the Small Vehicle, I think.

(L) So anyhow, this Robert Price says that this is that what he thinks he's seeing: that there was a similar thing in early Christianity; there was the high road where you could become something like a cynic philosopher and wander up and down the road, save people, and sleep on the road side, the good lord provides everything, etc. That's opposed to the ones that were taking care of business, their families, and also the monks and philosophers. So, in any event, the reason I'm giving this background is that, from some of these things that have been said in various sessions about tribal unit and networks and things, it seems that those people who support the network in certain ways, or in whatever ways they can, as long as they are a part of it and as long as they are networking, they don't have to give up their life, give up their jobs, give up whatever, and move into a community, still benefit from the advances of the network; that is to say, they literally receive when they give and help and support. Obviously, a community is one particular way. It's an intense way. But still, our communities are very different from monkly communities, because we're very much "in the world" in a certain sense.

Am I kind of on to something with this comparison between the high road and the low road of Buddhism and the high road and low road of Christianity? And what we're talking about in terms of communities and other members in our communities, is that pretty much what we're talking about here? That just being a part of the network in whatever way you can is as valuable as giving up everything to go live in a community?

A: More or less. But be aware that there is still the need in these particular times to prepare to actually receive and aid others in the outer edges of the network.

Q: (L) Okay. If people are fully engaged in the network, will they receive information in time?

A: Yes, the operative term being "fully engaged" in any and every way possible.

Q: (Chu) So if they're sitting on the fence, they won't?

(Galatea) They have to commit to it.

(L) Yeah, but you can commit to something and stay right in your regular life. You don't have to commit to something and just throw all caution to the wind.

(Pierre) Fully engaged in every way possible...

(L) I think it means what is possible for that person.

A: Yes.

Q: (Perceval) The previous answer was that there is still a need in these times to prepare to actually receive and aid others in the outer edges of the network. That's us doing the preparation, for example, so that we are effectively acting as proxies for all those others?

(Ark) I think that the main thing is to achieve as much RESULTS as possible, you see? So if you are somewhere and you see that you are not at your optimal strength because something is leaking, you cannot achieve most results. Some other place, you can see the results of what you are doing.

(L) So if you're not seeing results in your life, you need to rethink what's going on.

(Ark) Yeah.

The Buddhist concept of chakras is quite possibly wrong
Session 25 March 2017

(Galatea) Oh, I might as well get out a random question I have while we're waiting. I want to solve this debate once and for all. Pierre says that the solar plexus is the conduit of lower emotions. But I heard that it's the power center of the body. So, what energy is the solar plexus for?

A: You are closer.

Q: (Galatea) As in me?

A: Yes

Q: (L) What did the C's say about the centers? What did they say about the chakras?

(Joe) Lower emotions is the...

(Galatea) That's the stomach, the orange one.

(Pierre) Well, in Buddhist tradition, the basal chakra between the legs was the basic energy...

(Galatea) The basal is below the belly button and the root is the crotch.

(Pierre) Yeah. Instinctive is under the belly button, lower emotion in Buddhist tradition is yellow, then green for higher emotion (the heart), then blue is the intellectual center (the voice), and...

(L) I don't think you're right. We'll have to look it up and we'll include it in the transcript.

(Pierre) They change but they said what unites higher intellectual and higher spiritual was here. They talked about the Shepherds hook.

(Joe) They never said the solar plexus was lower emotions...

(L) Go look it up, Joe. See what the C's said.

[Joe goes to look up the session.]

(Galatea) In Bringers of the Dawn, they also say that your solar plexus, which is your power center...

(L) They said you have like 12 chakras or something.

(Galatea) I don't remember that part. But anyway, they say that's where you get your power to like help you with your psychic abilities, to create a psychic shield. So, you'd need the power. It's like the battery pack. So, is the solar plexus chakra sort of like the battery pack of the body?

A: Close

Q: (Galatea) Oh... You wanna try to elaborate and fill in the gaps, please?

A: Wait for previous input.

[Joe returns with search results...]

Session July 13, 2002

Q: (A) Now, I was reading in the transcripts that sleep is necessary for human beings because it was a period of rest and recharging. You also said that the SOUL rests while the body is sleeping. So, the question is: what source of energy is tapped to recharge both the body and the soul?

A: The question needs to be separated. What happens to a souled individual is different from an organic portal unit.

Q: (L) I guess that means that the life force energy that is embodied in Organic Portals is something like the soul pool that is theorized to exist for flora and fauna. This would, of course, explain the striking and inexplicable similarity of psychopaths, that is so well defined that they only differ from one another in the way that different species of trees are different in the overall class of Tree-ness. So, if they don't have souls, where does the energy come from that recharges Organic Portals?

A: The pool you have described.

Q: Does the recharging of the souled being come from a similar pool, only maybe the "human" pool?

A: No - it recharges from the so-called sexual center which is a higher center of creative energy. During sleep, the emotional center, not being blocked by the lower intellectual center and the moving center, transduces the energy from the sexual center. It is also the time during which the higher emotional and intellectual centers can rest from the "drain" of the lower centers' interaction with those pesky organic portals so much loved by the lower centers. This respite alone is sufficient to make a difference. But, more than that, the energy of the sexual center is also more available to the other higher centers.

Q: (L) Well, the next logical question was: where does the so-called "sexual center" get ITS energy?

A: The sexual center is in direct contact with 7th density in its "feminine" creative thought of "Thou, I Love." The "outbreath" of "God" in the relief of constriction. Pulsation. Unstable Gravity Waves.

Q: Do the "centers" as described by Mouravieff relate at all to the idea of "chakras?"

A: Quite closely. In an individual of the organic variety, the so-called higher chakras are "produced in effect" by stealing that energy from souled beings. This is what gives them the ability to emulate souled beings. The souled being is, in effect, perceiving a mirror of their own soul when they ascribe "soul qualities" to such beings.

Q: Is this a correspondence that starts at the basal chakra which relates to the sexual center as described by Mouravieff?

A: No. The "sexual center" corresponds to the solar plexus.
Lower moving center - basal chakra
Lower emotional - sexual chakra
Lower intellectual - throat chakra
Higher emotional - heart chakra
Higher intellectual - crown chakra

Q: (L) What about the so-called seventh, or "third eye" chakra?

A: Seer. The union of the heart and intellectual higher centers.

[Laura's note: This would "close the circuit" in the "shepherd's crook" configuration.]

Q: (L) So, then, basically, the C's gave a different description. And remember, the sexual center is the energy because they say you have to recharge your energy. The sexual center is drained by OPs. So, the sexual center corresponds to the solar plexus. The basal chakra is at the very bottom near your sexual organs. The sexual chakra is the organs.

(Pierre) Under the belly button?

(L) It's below your belly button.

(Galatea) But it's not the crotch area.

(L) Yeah, and then lower intellectual is the throat chakra, higher emotional is the heart, and higher intellectual is the crown chakra. And then when I asked about the 7th or the Third Eye, they said that's the union of the heart and intellectual higher centers. That closes the circuit in the "shepherd's crook".

(Pierre) And the Buddhists say something different.

(L) And they're quite possibly wrong.

(Galatea) So there's something about having sexual energy that increases your bodily energy that increases your ability...

(L) Oh yeah, it's the creative energy of the cosmos.

The Brahmanical counter revolution against Buddhists (100 BC- 400 AD) related to cosmic events
Session 14 January 2023

Q: (seek10) B.R Ambedkar hypothesized that Brahmanical switch from obsessive beef eating to cow worship is part of the counter revolution against Buddhists (100 BC - 400 AD). Is this close to the reality of what happened?

A: Close, yes.

Q: (seek10) If so, are there any contribution of cosmic events that caused the Black Death in the West and was responsible for this cow scarcity that Brahmins used against Buddhists?

A: Yes. Very insightful. Roman Empire also fell and Europe burned at that time also.

It almost reads as if the battle against early Buddhism reflects what happened later to Christianity.

Has anyone studied sources or read up on the topic of the historical identity of Buddha?

 

[Wandering Star]

I think it is possible that just as the story of Jesus was created (in large part) about Julius Caesar, Buddhism may have something similar with the Hindu god Rama.

Buddha:

Siddhartha Gautama,[e] most commonly referred to as the Buddha (lit. 'the awakened one'),[4][f][g] was a wandering ascetic and religious teacher who lived in South Asia[h] during the 6th or 5th century BCE[5][6][7][c] and founded Buddhism. According to Buddhist legends, he was born in Lumbini, in what is now Nepal, to royal parents of the Shakya clan, but renounced his home life to live as a wandering ascetic.[8] After leading a life of mendicancy, asceticism, and meditation, he attained nirvana at Bodh Gayā in what is now India. The Buddha then wandered through the lower Indo-Gangetic Plain, teaching and building a monastic order. Buddhist tradition holds that he died in Kushinagar and reached parinirvana ("final release from conditioned existence").[9][j]

Rama:

In Hinduism, Rama is an avatar ('descent' of god) of Vishnu, who was born in India to free it from the yoke of the demon Ravana.
King Dasharatha of Ayiodia had no offspring despite having three wives; therefore, he performed a fire sacrifice in order to have children. Four were born to him: with his wife Kausalya, he had Rama; with Kaikeyi, Bharata; and with Sumitri, Lakshman and Shātrughna.

As a young man, in the Yoga-vasāst text, it is told that Prince Rama, after touring the country, felt completely disillusioned after experiencing the supposed reality of the world. The King, very concerned about his son's immense disillusionment, sought solace among several sages until he reached Sage Vasāsthā. He replies that Rama's dispassion is a sign that the Prince is ready to achieve spiritual enlightenment, as he has begun to understand the spiritual truths that are the cause of his confusion and for which he needs confirmation. From this point on, a discourse and long conversation between the sage Vashista and Prince Rama begins at court; an event that will last for several days.

Later in the Ramayana, we learn of the miraculous birth of Sita Devi and how Rama obtained her hand by bending and even breaking the immense bow of the god Shiva.

Then, we learn of how Rama's wicked stepmother, Kaikeyi, wished to see her own son Bharata on the throne. Therefore, she plotted to banish Rama to the forest for fourteen years. His wife Sita and Lakshman accompanied him.

During his stay in the forest, the ten-headed demon Ravana, king of Sri Lanka, abducted Sita and took her to his palace.

While Rama and Lakshman search for her, they meet the monkey-man Hanuman (who has a large jaw), a minister of Sugriva (who has a long neck), the monkey king exiled by his brother, the malicious Vali. These talking monkeys make a pact with Rama. Rama kills Vali, and Sugriva places his army at his disposal. The entire following chapter focuses on the heroism of Hanuman, who leaps to the island of Sri Lanka to discover Sita.

Later, the war between the monkeys and the demons is narrated. To reach the island with his army, Rama builds a bridge across the Palk Strait (which separates the Indian mainland from the island of Sri Lanka). The most important demons are killed by the monkey chiefs, and finally, Rama kills Ravana. After recovering Sita, the gods appear to Rama and reveal their status as God, lord of the universe.

 

[Sven]

I’ve done a shallow search on it years ago
and found it’s complex, because early Buddhist texts were written centuries after his death and mix historical events with mythology and philosophical teachings. The consensus amongst researches like Gombrich and Schopen are that:

He was probably born in the Shakya clan, in or near modern-day Nepal.
He renounced his princely life and achieved enlightenment (bodhi) in north India.
His teachings led to the formation of early monastic communities, eventually evolving into what we now call Buddhism.

He was probably born in the Shakya clan, in or near modern-day Nepal.

He renounced his princely life and achieved enlightenment (bodhi) in north India.

His teachings led to the formation of early monastic communities, eventually evolving into what we now call Buddhism.

I think it’s gonna be a struggle to pin down who the Buddha really was because everything was written after his death and as far as I can find nothing is written in his name.

I do think he is a real historical figure but there’s just not much to go on.

 

[furryfrog]

I do think at one time Buddha's knew the truth, and had a good system of spiritual development. Buddhism likely has been corrupted by evil(STS) and now hardly resembles what it once was, no information about Buddhism until after a few centuries of its start is a big tell. I am going to go out on a limb and say we have some evidence to help us understand what Buddhism used to be. Lets start with what we know and compare it to Buddhism and see what similarities there are.

In Buddhism, "Buddha" means "awakened one" or "enlightened one", and since this is an esoteric Christian forum (the fourth way) we immediately already have a direct likeness to "man is asleep, a machine and needs to wake up". Mahayana translates to "great vehicle" so Mahayana Buddhism translates to "Awakened Vehicle". Lets review fourth way terminology first. We all have 3 lower centers, body, mind and emotion, also called the trinity (we know mainstream Christianity has corrupted the trinity to be father, son, and holy spirit.) We also have 3 higher centers, body, mind, and emotion. I call this arrangement of trinity's the 2Trinity, a Tritwoity, or the number 33. As for the levels of consciousness in the fourth way we have man #1, #2, and man #3 representing the lower state of consciousness or physical, man #4 representing a higher state of consciousness (or soul), and man #5 representing the highest state of consciousness for man (the physical self merged with the soul into one). When we dig through Buddhism we find a match between esoteric Christianity and Mahayana Buddhism. The Mahayana Buddhists have the Trikaya, the concept of the three bodies, or modes of being, of the Buddha. The Trikaya could be compared to the three levels of consciousness in the fourth way, Man #1, #2, #3, man #4, and man #5.

When we get to trying to identify the lower and higher trinity in Buddhism things get muddy. Mahayana Buddhists have the six Paramitas, these could have represented the higher and lower trinity at one time, the number six divides into two threes. In the Pali tradition of the Theravada school they have three marks, but when you move over to Mahayana they have four marks. There is also the concept of the "triple gem" or "three jewels" named the Triratna. Trāyastriṃśa, transliterated from Sanskrit, is often translated as “Heaven of the Thirty-three” or “Realm of the Thirty-three Gods”, 33 is two threes, it's a stretch but this could be referring to the 3 lower centers and the 3 higher centers. So in conclusion its difficult to pin down if, and or what, Buddhism used to represent the trinity, our lower and higher centers.

Buddhism also is big into meditation which is a similarity and the purpose of Buddhism is to be a Buddha yourself.

 

[seek10]

Has anyone studied sources or read up on the topic of the historical identity of Buddha?

• Try these books - Book 1 in the volume 11 of Ambedkar's collection here . screen shot of Book 1 of volume 11

Part III (REVOLUTION AND COUNTER-REVOLUTION) of Volume 3 of Ambedkar's collection here - index on page 12.

Also, see this thread

Please Keep the following in mind (at least based on the my current understanding)

• Ambedkar's analysis is brilliant, but that doesn't mean he is correct as he cited. He wrote in the format of Aryans/Brahmins/rituals vs Buddha's social reformation. That is only one phase of evolution of the society ( some time around 1800 BCE to 500 BCE depending on the source) .
  • The date of Buddha is controversial though Indologists tend to insist around 500 BCE (modern authors like vedveer Arya who try to calculate gets 10 different dates for Buddha ranges from 1800 to 1000 BCE). There is mess of 470 years addition and translation errors of Indian(or local) era's into Christian AD/BCE.
  • i.e. what Buddha came up is modification of what is already there MINUS ritual to counter the prevailing "evils". i.e. Vedas and long list of post Vedic evolution of theories/counter theories/synthesis. If you read the books I mentioned, these evils sounds like "new age" of modern day.
• The real issue lies in thousands of years of evolution that is projected on to so called ancient Vedas for socio political religious purposes like in "open source".
• What are Vedas ?
  • There are considered 4 Vedas ( Rigveda, Atharvana, Sama, Yajur ). But Rigveda is oldest. There is as much as 90% overlap between these 4 Vedas. The obvious reason is they are collection of bits of information from different people.
  • Vedas themselves divided into Samhitas (oldest or core) , Brahmana (rituals - a means to replicate what they have seen in the sky on the ground to appease long gone comets), Aranyaka's (version of tribals - between rituals and philosophies), Upanishads(philosophical). Rigvedic Samhita's are oldest.
• Why they wrote?
  • If one see what was written in Samhitas by families of sages/seers/saints they are cosmic or cometary phenomenon. Here 'seers' are people wrote what they have seen in the sky (aka astronomers of the time). No need to say talking about comets is heresy as per so called modern scientists. lot of mix of clans/tribes/dynasties etc. exist too.
• Who wrote these Vedic Samhitas?
  • They are attributed to dozens of families including Vishwamitra, Agastya, Vasishta etc. Who are they?
    • Vishwamitra considered forefather of Dravidian Telugu and Kannada people ( C's Parantha descendants)
    • Agastya sage of Dravidian Tamilians/ aka descendants of submerged kumara kandam ( C's Parantha descendants)
    • Vasistha was most probably Kantek descendant.
    • C's said Vedas are written by Parantha descendants under "divine guidance". here "divine" means comets, a mundane and obvious explanation, but it took a long time to get to a firm conclusion only after reading R N Iyengar's work.
  • There are 2 or 3 vedic hymn attributed to Vasishta talks about 'battle of 10 kings' , which C's say "Atlantis", contributed to Mahabharata. Mahabharata itself is ocean with 3300 major characters with lot of sub plots. There are some interesting parallels between Plato's 'Athenians vs Atlanteans' to the 'battle of 10 kings'. Atlantis is ruled by 10 kings.
• see RN Iyengar's paper to get idea of comets in Vedas. Overlapping it on to cosmology events, it is easy to conclude that feared( demand ritual) Vedic characters are nothing but comets (Indra, Rudra, Varuna etc.) They are personified and woven in to stories for easy propagation after comets are gone and consistently modified. The current version are Purana's that were mostly frozen after Buddha's period (most probably around 540 AD).
• If you want to know how Hinduism evolved, see R. N. DANDEKAR 's paper - God in Hindu thought. This paper is behind pay wall. you can download it from here.
  • Both RN Iyengar and R. N. DANDEKAR uses Indologists dates as they have nothing else to go about, but it gives very good idea of sequence of events and process of synthesis it went through.
• Ambedkar wrote 100 years back trying to figure out complex web of 'what is there on the ground' (dubbed as Hinduism) like every body else of the time in the framework of so-called scientific (aka objective) method. The fundamental issue is defining these word Aryans, Brahmins, Sanskrit etc.
  • Arya: In Vedic Samhitas, Arya is sort of 'Pure', not much weightage in the name of races etc. This racial meaning most probably developed after Aryan invasion around 6000 BCE.
  • Brahmin: Brahmins doesn't have much contribution in Vedic Samhitas. They are priestly class who played cheer leader roles in wars of kings and later evolved into intellectual/ritual/nationalistic promoter class. Most probably they came with Aryan invasion of 6000 BCE.
    • The so called Varna (Kshatriya, Brahmin, Vysya, Sudra) attributed to Vedic hymn "Purushasukta". There is consensus that it is added much much later.
  • Sanskrit: Vedas were written in what is called ritual Sanskrit (Vedveer Arya's term)- specific way pronounced and propagated until they are documented on cured banana leaf's, reproduced every 200 years . If the propagation is the aim, Vedas still exist and they process did its job. As per C's roots of Sanskrit goes to Atlantis, Invading Iranian farmer Aryans used archaic Sanskrit. Their so called their Aryan land (Aryavarta) ends with Vindhya mountains that is considered a separation between north and south India that is after 6000 BCE invasion.

With that in mind, read what Ambedkar wrote in the above mentioned books to understand social circumstances, debates/arguments Buddha had with his opponents of the time etc.

In short, "History is written by Victors". If you see who won in this long history - Initially Dravidians aka parantha descendants(before YD), Iranians Aryans around 6K BCE ( pushed who didn't agree to their languages to south), Buddhists ( around 500 BCE), then Brahmins ( 500 AD), Muslims( interestingly they couldn't wipe out Hindus) and British(1800 AD). When reverse engineering, these layers has to be looked at to get idea of which one has contributed to what. Read R. N. DANDEKAR's paper I pasted to get idea of sequence (not dates)

British Indology (which was the latest) is based on Greek Megasthenes visit to a king named 'Sandrakutus'. Indologists translated to Chandragupta Maurya of Maurya dynasty( official date 400 BCE). Ashoka Maurya of this dynasty adopted Buddhism and sent envoys to all over world ( including China and some claim he sent envoys up to Britain) to spread Buddhism. There were questions raised about 'Sandracottus' identity for many decades, now got lot of traction during Modi era. What gives credit to this claim is the many pillars attributed to Ashoka Maurya has a specific sophisticated coatings or technology on the pillars that disappeared in later pillars. Western history is based on helenistic( or Greek) sources. The people like Vedveer Arya tend to say is Buddhist influences ( he place Buddha before 1100 BCE after reconciling all different dates of many sources) may be there in the West before Christian theological evolution. Given all the burning of libraries, we may not know what that is, if any. This is all wildly different than official history.

W.r.t Buddha replying to call for help, it doesn't need to be Buddha soul, there are numerous 5D souls who wants to volunteer. They can take any "uniform". if the recipient's bias is towards Buddha, they can take that. At the end, Free will can't be violated.

 

[thorbiorn]

Thank you @seek10 for the your reading recommendations and the summary of your understanding.

The date of Buddha is controversial though Indologists tend to insist around 500 BCE (modern authors like vedveer Arya who try to calculate gets 10 different dates for Buddha ranges from 1800 to 1000 BCE). There is mess of 470 years addition and translation errors of Indian(or local) era's into Christian AD/BCE.

What you write, could place "Buddha" as having lived at the time of the Hittites (1650 BC-1180 BC).


As with Buddha, also with Zoroaster there are similarly marked differences between late and early dates:

In modern scholarship, two main approaches can be distinguished: a late dating to the 7th and 6th centuries BC, based on the indigenous Zoroastrian tradition, and an early dating, which places his life more generally in the 15th to 9th centuries BC.

Late date​

Some scholars propose a period between 7th and 6th century BC, for example, c. 650–600 BC or 559–522 BC. The latest possible date is the mid 6th century BC, at the time of Achaemenid Empire's Darius I, or his predecessor Cyrus the Great. This date gains credence mainly from attempts to connect figures in Zoroastrian texts to historical personages; thus some have postulated that the mythical Vishtaspa who appears in an account of Zoroaster's life was Darius I's father, also named Vishtaspa (or Hystaspes in Greek). However, if this was true, it seems unlikely that the Avesta would not mention that Vishtaspa's son became the ruler of the Persian Empire, or that this key fact about Darius's father would not be mentioned in the Behistun Inscription. It is also possible that Darius I's father was named in honor of the Zoroastrian patron, indicating possible Zoroastrian faith by Arsames.

Early date​

Scholars such as Mary Boyce (who dated Zoroaster to somewhere between 1700 and 1000 BC) used linguistic and socio-cultural evidence to place Zoroaster between 1500 and 1000 BC (or 1200 and 900 BC). The basis of this theory is primarily proposed on linguistic similarities between the Old Avestan language of the Zoroastrian Gathas and the Sanskrit of the Rigveda (c. 1700–1100 BC), a collection of early Vedic hymns. Both texts are considered to have a common archaic Indo-Iranian origin. The Gathas portray an ancient Stone-Bronze Age bipartite society of warrior-herdsmen and priests (compared to Bronze tripartite society; some conjecture that it depicts the Yaz culture), and that it is thus implausible that the Gathas and Rigveda could have been composed more than a few centuries apart. These scholars suggest that Zoroaster lived in an isolated tribe or composed the Gathas before the 1200–1000 BC migration by the Iranians from the steppe to the Iranian Plateau. The shortfall of the argument is the vague comparison, and the archaic language of Gathas does not necessarily indicate time difference.

It has been suggested by Silk Road Seattle, using its own interpretations of Victor H. Mair's writings on the topic that Zoroaster could have been born in the 2nd millennium BC.

Almut Hintze, the British Library, and the European Research Council have dated Zoroaster to roughly 3,500 years ago, in the 2nd millennium BC.

Prateek Dasgupta, considers, Did the Buddha Have Iranian Origins? and asks "Could the sage have descended from the Iranian-speaking Scythians of the Steppes?" Maybe Buddha originally was as tied in with with Iranian thinking and philosophy as many Americans still are with European?

This short article, Connections between Zoroastrianism and Mahayana Buddhism, by a John Easter, points out there are a few similarities, but are these the result of coincidences, or later additions to Buddhism, rather than original ideas?

Now, just because something appears to be a later variation, does not mean it is not closer to what was in the beginning. As an example, say From Paul to Mark led to a reformulation of the emphasis in Christianity, then some things, like the so-called Apolstle's Creed would be recognized for what it is. Though old, it does not reflect the essence of the teaching, as it was. Something similar may be in Buddhism. There may be some concepts and traditions which are obfuscations. Moreover, simply because a Buddhist sect appears as a latecomer, does not mean someone associated with such can not have a good idea. For instance, the author of Paul's Necessary Sin, Timothy Ashworth has been with the Quakers, but this orientation of Christianity only appeared in the mid-17th century England, not in a country and time closer to the story.

 

[EmeraldR]

I do think at one time Buddha's knew the truth, and had a good system of spiritual development. Buddhism likely has been corrupted by evil(STS) and now hardly resembles what it once was, no information about Buddhism until after a few centuries of its start is a big tell. I am going to go out on a limb and say we have some evidence to help us understand what Buddhism used to be. Lets start with what we know and compare it to Buddhism and see what similarities there are.

In Buddhism, "Buddha" means "awakened one" or "enlightened one", and since this is an esoteric Christian forum (the fourth way) we immediately already have a direct likeness to "man is asleep, a machine and needs to wake up". Mahayana translates to "great vehicle" so Mahayana Buddhism translates to "Awakened Vehicle". Lets review fourth way terminology first. We all have 3 lower centers, body, mind and emotion, also called the trinity (we know mainstream Christianity has corrupted the trinity to be father, son, and holy spirit.) We also have 3 higher centers, body, mind, and emotion. I call this arrangement of trinity's the 2Trinity, a Tritwoity, or the number 33. As for the levels of consciousness in the fourth way we have man #1, #2, and man #3 representing the lower state of consciousness or physical, man #4 representing a higher state of consciousness (or soul), and man #5 representing the highest state of consciousness for man (the physical self merged with the soul into one). When we dig through Buddhism we find a match between esoteric Christianity and Mahayana Buddhism. The Mahayana Buddhists have the Trikaya, the concept of the three bodies, or modes of being, of the Buddha. The Trikaya could be compared to the three levels of consciousness in the fourth way, Man #1, #2, #3, man #4, and man #5.

When we get to trying to identify the lower and higher trinity in Buddhism things get muddy. Mahayana Buddhists have the six Paramitas, these could have represented the higher and lower trinity at one time, the number six divides into two threes. In the Pali tradition of the Theravada school they have three marks, but when you move over to Mahayana they have four marks. There is also the concept of the "triple gem" or "three jewels" named the Triratna. Trāyastriṃśa, transliterated from Sanskrit, is often translated as “Heaven of the Thirty-three” or “Realm of the Thirty-three Gods”, 33 is two threes, it's a stretch but this could be referring to the 3 lower centers and the 3 higher centers. So in conclusion its difficult to pin down if, and or what, Buddhism used to represent the trinity, our lower and higher centers.

Buddhism also is big into meditation which is a similarity and the purpose of Buddhism is to be a Buddha yourself.

IMOE i have found that some of the elements the Theravadan Lineage (regionally south east asia ) especially that of the Forest tradition are the closest approximation of the historical life of Buddah,what he taught and his life path - that being based on an oral tradition handed down .
Ive delved into other lineages of Buddhism . Also the Chan lineages connected with Bodhidharma /Chinese (pureland buddhism) and Zen buddhism.

Ive never really resonated with the Tibetan lineages of buddhism and mainstream Indian traditions - some of them are a mixture of shamanism and rituals and written interpetations/superstitions well after the historical time line of Buddhas life.

The most comprehensive historical records of the Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama, are found in the Pāli Canon, which is considered one of the earliest and most extensive collections of his teachings and biographical information.1 The Pāli Canon includes the Vinaya, which contains the codes for monastic practice, and the Sutta Piṭaka, which compiles teachings based on his discourses.1 These texts were initially passed down through an oral tradition in Middle Indo-Aryan dialects.

Unfortunately there isnt alot to go on in terms of the historical life and evidence - more recently there was an excavation by archaelogists at Lumbini (the buddahs birthplace )
article on this
below

Oldest Buddhist Shrine Uncovered In Nepal May Push Back Buddha's Birth Date

Excavations at a Buddhist pilgrimage site in Nepal have uncovered a shrine dating to the sixth century B.C.

www.nationalgeographic.com

I see alot of parallels with the historic life of Jesus ! Beautifully put across in From Paul to Mark by Laura !

 

[Nienna]

and since this is an esoteric Christian forum (the fourth way)

I would just like to point out to everyone, this is a research forum based on 4th way principles. It is not a "Christian" forum nor a 4th way school. Which could be interpreted as such from your comment @furryfrog . Also, your post has nothing to add to this discussion as it is not on topic of the original post. Please, in the future, try to discuss what the thread is about.

 

[seek10]

In the landscape of Indian philosophies, where does Buddhism fit in? Keep in mind this chronology track is mostly is an attempt to make sense of C's dates before watching the video.

Chronological track:

• 48K BCE: Paranthas' (with proto-Dravidian language) extinct. their descendants (aka mix of most probably native American and extinct Paranthas)
• 16K - 10K BCE : Younger dryas period, observations written in Vedic/ritual Sanskrit. Sanskrit has Atlantean roots (like Russian, Latin etc.). see this video on Sanskrit.
• 6K BCE : Aryan invasion with archaic Sanskrit. Interesting video on Mahabharata where this creator links Vedic ritual proponents of Iranian Aryans (aka split portion of Avesta/Vedas base) to Kurus (or bad guys) of Mahabharata and Pandavas (good guys).
• 4K-1K BCE : Indus valley civilization. w.r.t Indian history chronology, it is a dead-end side track as it was created( mostly from existing Dravidians based on few survived bones - why? not sure yet) and air lifted to other planets by Lizards.
• 3K - 2K BCE: cometary Venus orbit settle down period. All existing and evolving philosophies grouped under the umbrella of Vishnu (cometary Venus of Vedas) and Shiva (mix of Vedic Rudra and Dravidian shiva) and wrote endless Puranas much later.
  • In the current Hinduism Venus is 'Shukra'. How cometary Venus(Vishnu of Vedas) became planet Venus(Shukra) I am not sure yet. There are some hints though.
• Buddhism: see the hacker version in the 16 philosophies video below. According to C's Monotheism (from which Christianity came) came around 1600 BCE ( Egyptian Pharoah). The timing of Buddhism is around the same period (irrespective of Buddha data - (some time between 1800 - 500 BCE).
• 540 AD: This Gupta period in India when the "sacred Cow" business started and most of the puranas are finalized around this time. Most of the social restrictions of endogamy came around this period in small area in the north. But got spread and but couldn't sustain much. This is where Dravidians came to the rescue with Bhakti movement that doesn't care about these hierarchies. But endogamy stayed in some areas initially, later all over the country.
• Aprox. 800 AD: Adi Shankaracharya with his Advaita philosophies and Dravidian Bhakti movement and defeating Buddhists in philosophical competitions. This 800 AD Shankaracharya part is much simplified version as his dates are doubtful as per revivalists.

Here is a interesting "entertaining" video on Indian philosophies ( enable english subtitles), try to over lap it with chronology track that will shed light into evolutionary path and the complexities.