Why are you single?

[Menna]

I concur

 

[Faith]

:/ I guess this is a continuation of my negative introject programmes (this thread: page two)

There are situations, in which I need to be external considering. The most significant ones are those, in which I could meet a nice girl. When I am faced with a potential meeting-situation, it suddenly disables me: It's like ON(Ext.Cons.) to OFF(Int.Cons.) Instead of being external considering: looking around, taking it easy, remaining unidentified, looking on the bright side of life -- I am automatically trapped in a state of negative introject. Paranoid thoughts are coming to my mind. It feels as if I had something to hide, as if my delusive makeup could melt away every second. So I am negatively identified. This may be related to my narcissistic wounding, I am not sure yet.

These offline-programmes are like blinders, that make me avoid any eye-contact, that shield me from any contact-situation. If a nice girl dares to speak to me, I feel clumsy and boring. All I am thinking is: Poor girl, you have picked the wrong one. What have you let yourself in for? How can I escape this situation without hurting your feelings? Last time I met a girl (she tracked me down more or less), she could not understand why I am behaving like this. She claimed, my behavior would be the exact opposite of what one would expect after having watched me in another situation. It would not fit me at all! She tried to get closer to me, but in the end she could not handle it. She concluded it would be fascinating in a way but also the most wiredest thing she has ever encountered. But it turned her off. I perfectly emasculated myself due to these negative-introject-programmes. When she started to loose interest, I started to fall in love with her. Oh boy, how silly it may sounds, this really is one of my most mysterious problems, but the most obvious program it seems! What really bothers me, is that this just happens to me, that I can't controll it, that I denounced myself to her, that I am a prisoner of some useless programmes! Do you know the script writing twins in the movie Adaptation? This is how I feel: Same body, different attitudes. It's like a curse. There is no visible reason for behaving like this and as far as I am concerned: there is no need for it!

 

[Oxajil]

:/ I guess this is a continuation of my negative introject programmes (this thread: page two)

There are situations, in which I need to be external considering. The most significant ones are those, in which I could meet a nice girl. When I am faced with a potential meeting-situation, it suddenly disables me: It's like ON(Ext.Cons.) to OFF(Int.Cons.) Instead of being external considering: looking around, taking it easy, remaining unidentified, looking on the bright side of life -- I am automatically trapped in a state of negative introject. Paranoid thoughts are coming to my mind. It feels as if I had something to hide, as if my delusive makeup could melt away every second. So I am negatively identified. This may be related to my narcissistic wounding, I am not sure yet.

These offline-programmes are like blinders, that make me avoid any eye-contact, that shield me from any contact-situation. If a nice girl dares to speak to me, I feel clumsy and boring. All I am thinking is: Poor girl, you have picked the wrong one. What have you let yourself in for? How can I escape this situation without hurting your feelings? Last time I met a girl (she tracked me down more or less), she could not understand why I am behaving like this. She claimed, my behavior would be the exact opposite of what one would expect after having watched me in another situation. It would not fit me at all! She tried to get closer to me, but in the end she could not handle it. She concluded it would be fascinating in a way but also the most wiredest thing she has ever encountered. But it turned her off. I perfectly emasculated myself due to these negative-introject-programmes. When she started to loose interest, I started to fall in love with her. Oh boy, how silly it may sounds, this really is one of my most mysterious problems, but the most obvious program it seems! What really bothers me, is that this just happens to me, that I can't controll it, that I denounced myself to her, that I am a prisoner of some useless programmes! Do you know the script writing twins in the movie Adaptation? This is how I feel: Same body, different attitudes. It's like a curse. There is no visible reason for behaving like this and as far as I am concerned: there is no need for it!

That is exactly how I behave as well in a situation where I like a guy. (I think. Your post just resonated a lot with my current feelings and thoughts.)
Maybe someone can help us out!

I think what we could try is to slowly but surely try to do things we usually won't, maybe we can start with making eye contact?

Today I kind of ignored the guy I like and I was having this weird kind of anger feeling mixed with fear and adrenaline. I was angry at the poor guy for nothing! And he came to me smiling and being a bit nervous and I kinda had the feeling like "I don't really care.", when in actuality I do care! It's like the program totally takes over. This behavior slowly will make the other dislike us and when they go away (which we kind of wanted them to do because we feel we're not worth much) we feel sorry about how we behaved and wish we did it differently. Atleast that is what I have been observing.

I really want this program out of my system :( It's a program out of control

 

[Pierre]

That is exactly how I behave as well in a situation where I like a guy. Exactly.
Maybe someone can help us out!

I don't know but it might be a reenactment of how our parents were treating us. When we were loving, wanted kisses and felt nurtured they pushed you away ("i don't have time, "go play with your toys", "when will you start behaving like an adult", "you're so needy",...) and when we were distant, wanting to be alone they wanted you ("come here my little baby", "come I give you a hug", "I missed you", "give a kiss to mummy/daddy",...)

That really sounds like the baroque, morose, contradictory predator mind, always wanting what it doesn't have and rejecting what it has.

 

[Oxajil]

I don't know but it might be a reenactment of how our parents were treating us. When we were loving, wanted kisses and felt nurtured they pushed you away ("i don't have time, "go play with your toys", "when will you start behaving like an adult", "you're so needy",...) and when we were distant, wanting to be alone they wanted you ("come here my little baby", "come I give you a hug", "I missed you", "give a kiss to mummy/daddy",...)

That really sounds like the baroque, morose, contradictory predator mind, always wanting what it doesn't have and rejecting what it has.

That does make sense. Thank you.

How can I deal with it?
Maybe I should write very detailed about these situations, what goes through my mind etc. and try to figure out where and how to begin with dealing with this predator mind.
There are all kinds of different thoughts, opinions, feelings etc. going through my mind. Insecurities, assumptions, fear etc. It's also difficult to understand if the other really likes you or not and when I think that the other doesn't, this program of hate and distrust kicks in. Actually it already gets activated in the beginning, but becomes even more active when I think that the other doesn't like me.
On the other hand there are different thoughts that say that I should not be angry and mean, that there is no reason to be afraid etc. But these thoughts are weaker present than the hate program.

I think I just need to have these thought patterns at a glance, instead of having them contradicting each other, confusing each other, basically flying around and clouding my whole perception of what to do. I just need to try to know where each thought pattern is coming from.

Is this a good way of trying to handle with this?

 

[Faith]

That is exactly how I behave as well in a situation where I like a guy. (I think. Your post just resonated a lot with my current feelings and thoughts.)
Maybe someone can help us out!

:) Thanx for joining in.

That really sounds like the baroque, morose, contradictory predator mind, always wanting what it doesn't have and rejecting what it has.

This concept makes sense, allthough I don't know if it's just a fascinating idea or if it really fits my behavior or even both? I have to think about that, check my memories if there is... hmm, it definitely rings a bell. Oh, my poor parents... you have no idea... I have allways been suspecting my family of suffering a cross-generational curse :/



EDIT: added two sentences

 

[Faith]

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=14178.15
This is an extract from another thread: (...) The Work -- The Swamp -- RE: On Trial (I got the permission from nemo to quote it here ;))

What I wonder about is, why you put it together with a self-denigrating passage (...). In my family, we call it "the quiet joys of martyrdom".
Do you see how it all is self-inflicted?

A few weeks ago while visiting family it became very clear to me that "the quiet joys of martyrdom" perfectly (?) describes my mother. So there is an interesting
connection which I`ll have to follow up on.
One strong emotion I`ve felt when writing that post was fear of abandonment (which could tie in with a few things I found out about my childhood recently).

:/ So maybe my big brother is dealing with familiar... or should I say family issues. Oh yes -- there might be an 'interesting' connection. Hm... hm... hm...



This has allways been our family motto: "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" or "Whatever we tackle, goes wrong" -- like a lose lose situation. I don't know how else I could translate it, but I guess you get the picture. :P



EDIT: added our glorious family motto

 

[Menna]

"What really bothers me, is that this just happens to me, that I can't control it...here is no visible reason for behaving like this and as far as I am concerned: there is no need for it!"

IT IS HAPPENING TO YOU BECAUSE THERE IS A LESSON TO BE LEARNED. THERE IS A NEED FOR IT. A NEED TO REALIZ WHAT EXACTLY IS HAPPENING AND HOW TO SOLVE IT. THE BEST WAY TO SOLVE A PROBLEM IS TO BE THE PROBLEM AND THROUGH TRIAL AND ERROR YOU WILL EVENTUALLY COME UP WITH THE RIGHT EQUATION TO COME UP WITH THE ANSWER. SELF OBSERVATION IS NEEDED HERE OBVIOUSLY YOU RECOGNIZE THE PROBLEM. BUT YOU CANT THINK ABOUT THE WAY YOU THINK WITH THE WAY YOU THINK. I SUGGEST READING AND READING AND APPLYING THE INFORMATION THAT YOU LEARN TO REAL LIFE.

I ALSO EXIBIT SOME OF THESE PROGRAMS, NOT BEING GOOD ENOUGH AND SO ON. EVEN THOUHG OUR PARENTS MIGHT HAVE STARTED THESE PROGRAMS IT DOESN NO GOOD TO POINT FINGERS AND BLAME BECAUSE THAT IS ANOTHER PROGRAM SO YOU WILL BE FIGHTING AND PROGRAM WITH A PROGRAM. LEARN AND APPLY I GUESS IS THE BEST WAY TO GO ABOUT IT.

(I HAVE NO CLUE WHY EVERY THINGS IN CAPS - SORRY)

 

[Faith]

WUOW, Menna! I have to grab hold of my chair while reading your post. You shouted it out loud... heh, heh... thanks, man. I appreciate it. But you put me the wrong way: I don't want to blame anyone. This would make me a full automatic machine, shouting at it's programmer (or another bot?). Instead I want to learn to reprogram or debug ourselves. I just want to fully understand this programming, how it works, how it started in the first place, how many bots there are and so on. This behavior I described starts automatically against my will. It's not that easy! All I can do at the moment is thinking: "Frak! It has been activated. Now I have to bite the bullet till the end". It's like this silly old 80ies Kraftwerk-tune 'We are the robots (Wir sind die Roboter)'

 

[anart]

WUOW, Menna! I have to grab hold of my chair while reading your post. You shouted it out loud... heh, heh... thanks, man. I appreciate it. But you put me the wrong way: I don't want to blame anyone. This would make me a full automatic machine, shouting at it's programmer (or another bot?). Instead I want to learn to reprogram or debug myself. I just want to fully understand this programming, how it works, how it started in the first place, how many bots there are and so on.

Exactly. It has nothing to do with blame. I has to do with using the present to repair (understand) the past and prepare for the future.

This behavior I described starts automatically against my will. It's not that easy! All I can do at the moment is thinking: "Frak! It has been activated. Now I have to bite the bullet till the end". It's like this silly old 80ies Kraftwerk-tune 'We are the robots (Wir sind die Roboter)'

Pretty much - just try to realize how much power there is in seeing it run. That takes a lot of effort and attention and from that, you will eventually be able to stop it.

 

[Menna]

Didn't mean to accuse you of blaming after I reread it - it did come across that way. I would have to say to figure out the programing you would have to know your machine. ISOTM says that there are different sections in the body that control our actions, emotional, thinking and movement. I am only half way through the book and would have to finish it to fully understand but I think it would help if you read it. Also the BIG 5 Narcissism books would help anyone understand why they act the way they do and how their machine operates. To control and fix a machine you have to understand how it works and I think after reading these books you will have the knowledge you need to work on yourself. I am only saying this because the first book I picked up from this forum was ISOTM I am only half way through and it has helped me imagine how much I would gain if I read all off the books here. Crazy to think about - wish I could read faster lol. So the recommendation is based on - if half a book is good then 6 and a half books are better :).

Narcissism "Big Five"
Myth of Sanity - Martha Stout
The Narcissistic Family - Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman and Robert M. Pressman
Trapped in the Mirror - Elan Golomb
Unholy Hungers - Barbara E. Hort
In Sheep's Clothing - George K. Simon

The Fourth Way
In Search of the Miraculous - P.D. Ouspensky

 

[Faith]

Narcissism "Big Five"
Myth of Sanity - Martha Stout
The Narcissistic Family - Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman and Robert M. Pressman
Trapped in the Mirror - Elan Golomb
Unholy Hungers - Barbara E. Hort
In Sheep's Clothing - George K. Simon

The Fourth Way
In Search of the Miraculous - P.D. Ouspensky

Yes, yes, yes... I wanna, wanna know! I am reading all this stuff right now. Like you I can't wait to finish it all. But I am a bit slow, because most of these books I have to read in English. So it may take a while. SOTM is great, but I don't think I will fully understand what I will have read after finishing it the first time. These alchemistic hydrogen related octave-eneagram-trinity-stuff definitely is out of my league. Do I look like an alchemist? :P

Pretty much - just try to realize how much power there is in seeing it run. That takes a lot of effort and attention and from that, you will eventually be able to stop it.

Thanks to you, thanks to the others (like DAO) there are allready some essential changes going on. When I have trouble with my parents, the things, they say, that did hurt me, does not hurt me anymore. You gave me something back, which I lost, my ahem... (the wise professor is now talking) "...universal trust, the very basic sense of... :P -- the very basic self-confidence. But still I get angry sometimes, but not because I was hurt, rather because these little conflicts get on my nerves, because I am still helpless, powerless: the lack of self-control. NOW IT'S THE LACK OF SELF-CONTROL that makes me angry. I really try to keep calm, to analyse what's going on in order to ACT, not to react: Strategic decisions in terms of damage limitations. I hope one day my true feelings reach them directly, fighting their way through the armadas of bots and programmes, conscious feelings that are stronger than all these mechanical words. It seems that between me and my parents there is a strong mechanical force that keeps us from just loving each other. But sometimes it seems to work, a little bit. But I am hopefull. It is probably not as bad as it may sound. I am a bit addicted to big words, so maybe it's because I want to feel something like in the big movies you know. I have to defrost my emotional centre, which hey... operates with a far more advanced hydrogen 12, if I am not mistaking (which you would not understand, professor!) However. I am on it :D

 

[Faith]

I think what we could try is to slowly but surely try to do things we usually won't, maybe we can start with making eye contact?

Oh, you picked a tough one :/ Maybe we should pause for a moment, just seconds before we face it to focus on the fact, that we are worth it. And then we could start the procedure without the faintest expectation, knowing, that we do not depend on the outcome. We don't have to prove anything. It's the feeling that matters: do we feel trapped and worthless or do we feel free and valuable? If we managed to feel free, I guess we would be able to manage every situation in terms of inner freedom. You just do what is in you, or so I think. Or you can practice eye-contact wearing sunglasses :P

Once I was interested in a beautiful girl, petite, sarcastic with a common taste in music, who seemed to act and talk hostile toward every men, but rather in terms of being tough, like 'you talk the talk', being cool, overconfident like a comic-style tough-cat. She talked more like a guy, if you ask me, like one of my homies, but even than it would seem a bit exaggerated. I could not handle it. She was too masculine, more than I could ever be. That didn't work for me. But maybe it was just her false personality. Now that I think about it, I'd say, she was pretty identified with this tough-cat-suit. Maybe the things she had to hide from us, were the things I would have liked about her.

:/ It seems to me, that there are many people who think their true selves are worthless, who are pretty identified with their false super-hero-suits. Oh boy, the gray eminences did a fine job, didn't they? The slaves have started to like their fake-hero-slave-costumes.

 

[Faith]

Let me think out loud: So the false personality seems to be the result of two worlds colliding with each other, the innocent untouched inner world versus the hostile, predatory outer world, that create a compensation zone with many buffers. Ergo the false personality collaborates or negotiates with the hostile forces, while the true self tries to resist. If the true self managed to interact with the outer world without any buffer or compensation -- hey... without Grima Wormtongue so to speak (Lord of the Rings II), it would discover the non-hostile forces beyond the predatory ones (like Gandalf). So the predatory aspect of ones self is located in the false personality-part and comes from the outside world? Is that correct? It infiltrated?

 

[Faith]

Last Friday I went to a small concert (party) by the Secret Chiefs 3, a psychedelic and schizophonic, very virtuosic Ennio Morricone-kind of oriental-metall-surf-jazz-grindcore-band. It was amazing, mind- and ear-bending. It's refreshing to witness such limitless creativity in terms of sensuous and emotional twists (now the perfectly identified groupie with star-shaped eyes is talking :P) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4_fbW_4w84 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJMZfk4-iiE

All in all being on that party felt kind of relaxed. It was not just the music, that made me feel that way. There were many situations that usually make me feel uncomfortable, for instance... having a small talk with a tall woman. She was swimming through the crowd -- head above water, so to speak, beautiful but in an unaffected way. It was funny watching myself while talking to that woman, being nervous and shy -- but it was allright. I guess I discovered a new program, that is activated by tall women. The conversation briefly touched on a topic, that allways makes me feel uncomfortable. But it wasn't that bad. It made me feel clumsy, yes but I'm not sure if she even noticed it. It was just a small talk.

So all the programmes running on that party usually make me feel kind of captured and worthless at times. Now they appeared to be just a chemical unbalance, that disturbed the flow of my interactions, like uncontrolled jitters. Now I can watch these programmes without feeling wounded, you know. It's just tedious. It's more like navigating a mecha-kind of machine that is a little tricky to handle, badly configured sensor system and motor function, at times stubborn as a mule.

Once upon a time... Imagine the pilot of that mecha, loosing control at some point -- his fast moving hands flying over the control panel suddenly pause, like frozen in time. You hear his tetchy voice: "Grrgh... here we go again!" He leans back and sighs. While watching the show slightly amused, he pushes a button every now and then, knocks on wood, until he finally regains control -- for now. He has never been able to gain full access to the systems, but he is working on it. After he reactivated the com-system, that was kind of blocked all these years, he now is able to communicate with other pilots, sharing his autodidactic trial-and-error-data via network, receiving new data from far more advanced pilots. Some of them were long dead -- ancestors from more conscious times. Another pilot, named Laura, figured out how to finetune the temporal radio transceiver. She also modified and reorganized our fragmented database. If they only could rewrite the lost manual. Nobody knows for sure, when and how they were put into these mysterious mechas. Most of them were so identified with watching the big-screen, that they just fancied themselves as pilots. But it turned out, that this awareness wasn't interactive at all -- it was just a dream, but non-lucid. They didn't recognize the controlpanel beyond the screen. They have never learned to look around, to recognize their cockpit-interior. They didn't even know there was one. :P

Being able to watch these programmes without to feel wounded is definitely new to me. This time I had prepared myself before I went to that concert. I listed all the typical programmes I discovered when analysing the memories concerning 'going-out'-situations. This definitely helped me being more conscious in situations, where you are easily distracted, where everything around you tries to make you forget, who you really are. When you take a walk in the forest of no return, every tree seems to shout at you:"Look at me! Look at me! Right here! No -- ME! Forget the other tree!"


It's like :P :P