Why are you single?

[Paradigma]

Hehe need-another-nick, I read your post yesterday at night shortly before I went to bed and dreamed about that sitting in that "cockpit" you described above :D That was a pretty amazing feeling :D


[quote author=need-another-nick]So all the programmes running on that party usually make me feel kind of captured and worthless at times. Now they appeared to be just a chemical unbalance, that disturbed the flow of my interactions, like uncontrolled jitters.[/quote]

Yes I know this feeling very well and I recognized that this derives from that programm I have to get a girlfriend and I obtain that by being funny, charismatic and attractive. Well but I'm not :)
I'm pretty sure not a party animal but by trying to be one it leads me inevitably to doubts why am I here and why are these people so strange. But acting out clumsily this program it's me, I think, who is strange.

By the way, I listened to SC3 - Exodus and I really like it, now I'll try the other songs :)

Since I participated in this topic and wrote about these two girls I decided to observe this urge to look for a girl and not acting out this urge. Now I feel a calmness but on the other side it feels empty, as if I don't have a sense for living or an aim. There is this senselessness in my life and there is this silly feeling I want to get back to that narcistic girl with whom I had some really nice moments but who did hurt and disappoint me so much...
At the moment I have this feeling that one part of me can never get over her and this other part of me just shakes the head seeing so much sentiment.
She hurt me more than once and I already cut all connections to her but after several months she added me in Facebook and then I tried again with her. Things seemed to work better this time and she also made the impression of having learned. Propably she learned to be more subtle.

If I would say this instead of writing it I think my voice would have this intonation of being hurt and wanting to have sympathy. I think I won't get that here and it wouldn't help me either. I want peace within me.
I'll cut the last connections to her. For heavens sake...

 

[Faith]

Since I participated in this topic and wrote about these two girls I decided to observe this urge to look for a girl and not acting out this urge. Now I feel a calmness but on the other side it feels empty, as if I don't have a sense for living or an aim. There is this senselessness in my life and there is this silly feeling I want to get back to that narcistic girl with whom I had some really nice moments but who did hurt and disappoint me so much...

I give you all the sympathy I can spare. Your story reminds me of my own hurtfull experiences. I wish I could give you some good advice, but I can't. I can only speak for myself. There is one thing I have learned from my own experiences: Whenever the feelings for each other are kind of unbalanced or asymmetric, leave it while you can -- no matter how much it hurts. I can remember very well the time when I had to endure the effects of emotional 'detoxification' (don't know, if it's the right word). With retrospective effect it now feels more like a chemical addiction than lovesickness. Maybe it would help if you tried to objectify your current feelings for her, if you regarded it as chemical or psychological unbalance -- a phenomenon, that should be scientifically analysed in detail (). Maybe you could learn from it, use it, make the best of it. It surely can make you wiser. I know -- seeing it chemically is kind of unromantic and coldhearted: It makes a human being appear mechanical, but it has helped me to get over it.

:P I could be wrong, of course. But I really believe I know what true love feels like, but the thing is: I don't know how to share it. I believe it's a matter of external consideration, a state of mind, that must be learned. After all I believe 'love' is something you can feel and express independently. 'Feeling it' shouldn't depend on that other person. If you find a girl you can share it with, in terms of external consideration, then this would be a gift, unexpected, rare and you surely wouldn't take it for granted -- I believe true symbiosis is very rare and must be earned. Till then you are on your own, more or less. Anyway...

If each and everything is a lesson, then this is yours, I guess (and mine as well :P). The more we learn, the more conscious we become, the happier we are, or so I think. Watching the movie 'Adaptation' might also help. Listen to what Charlie Kaufmann's brother finally says about love. I wish you all the best. :)


EDIT: added one or two sentences

second EDIT I added an important detail, I think 'external consideration'

 

[Faith]

:) All I am saying is just my current state of experience, my personal, subjective point of view. There are far more advanced and far more experienced people here in the network. I hope I don't bother you with my thoughts. My whole life is kind of experimental -- trial and error (... and success, sometimes :P)

 

[Paradigma]

:) All I am saying is just my current state of experience, my personal, subjective point of view. There are far more advanced and far more experienced people here in the network. I hope I don't bother you with my thoughts. My whole life is kind of experimental -- trial and error (... and success, sometimes :P)

Thank you need-another-nick, I really appreciate your help and it's exactly the same what I thought and finally did. I erased all contacts to her and do observe what programms are running if I think of her. Actually, I felt instantly some kind of relief then I deleted her from my ICQ-list.

it as chemical or psychological unbalance -- a phenomenon, that should be scientifically analysed in detail (Graduate). Maybe you could learn from it, use it, make the best of it. It surely can make you wiser. I know -- seeing it chemically is kind of unromantic and coldhearted: It makes a human being appear mechanical, but it has helped me to get over it.

Yes exactly, that's the only way it works for me, seeing it unromantically. Romantic feelings are for me at that point some sort of self deception. It's like these medieval minnesinger trying to conquer the heart of the lady but never succeeding and wasting time and energy by that. By the way I know she read a book about that and she was very fascinated...
It's quite funny but I got so many signs that she is poison. The day before I stayed at hers I watched a south park episode and it was about Chefcook who was possesd of a succubus and I had to think about her at once. So I knew that she will cause me some trouble but I was way to interessted in her and I wanted to learn something new. Well I did :D and I got my lesson ;)
||
||
V

If each and everything is a lesson, then this is yours, I guess (and mine as well Tongue). The more we learn, the more conscious we become, the happier we are, or so I think. Watching the movie 'Adaptation' might also help. Listen to what Charlie Kaufmann's brother finally says about love. I wish you all the best. Smiley

Thanks for the help and also for the suggest to watch Adaptation, propably I will but at the moment I'm not really interessted in knowing what true love feels like or could be. Perhaps this could be the right startingpoint to know that but I don't care. Love or better falling in love is for me at the moment more an obstacle than an state I would like to acquire. But by thinking about that, can love only flower than falling in love dies?
Have a nice and lovely day :) ;)
Paradigma

 

[Cyre2067]

Kinda been avoiding posting here mostly cuz my thoughts were in disarray and I couldn't quiet my I's and get a clear picture. But after some introspection and journalling I came to a rather simple conclusion: I'm single because I'm not yet the person I want to be. My ideal self has a different set of attitudes, behaviors and probably a much more mature personality so it would be silly of me to date seriously since people will be attracted to an image of myself that 1.) isn't real and 2.) isn't what I want myself to be.

I have dated, not a lot, but enough to know that people are either way too interested in my false-self or turned off by certain aspects of same. In order to avoid believing lies about myself and to avoid projecting same it makes much more sense to avoid the game all together, focus on self-work and not get wrapped up in the chemical-soup that results from 'falling in love' with someone. I use quotes to denote the pseudo-love that is more physical-chemical based as opposed to that which is based on a deep understanding and spiritual bond between two collinear individuals.

So that, in a nutshell, is why I'm single.

 

[Faith]

I'm single because I'm not yet the person I want to be.

:) I can't help it. Your post inspired me to look at it from a slightly different point of view. So you decided to not play the game until you have developed your ideal self. That's an interesting point of view. Maybe that's another reason why I have difficulties to make eye-contact, to chase after my beloved prey, so to speak. It feels predatory, delusive and false and everything it could gain would be nothing but a beautiful mirror. This reminds me of a quote by Goethe...ahem, well: "Unless you feel, naught will you ever gain" It's impossible to chase after it. If you tried to hunt it down, you would not recognize your soul mate, your symbiont, your colinear individual with your predator eyes, even if he or she welcomes you with open arms.

But if I don't play the game, I guess I have to be very patient, very considering, very sensitive and I have to keep my eyes and my mind wide open. Maybe it doesn't depend on how well ones 'ideal self' is developed, on what you like or dislike about yourself. Your true mate would recognize your true self, your essence, even if it's hidden deep inside all your 'falseness', even if you couldn't see it yourself or wouldn't know that it even exists. Once in a while it would shine through and that is what makes you lovable. If one of your true mates, an unknown stranger, one fine day saw you as you really are, truly loved you, would you recognize him or her? Imagine all these broken hearts out there! It's not a matter of ideal, well developed, experienced or advanced self-conceptions, it seems -- it's a matter of external consideration. Maybe true love has already found you, more than once, but you just don't see it. Maybe all you can see is an ideal self-conception in progress -- what if the progress never ends? Would you ever be ready? Do you wanna depend on this?

I don't! :P



from Goethe's Faust

(...)Unless you feel, naught will you ever gain;
Unless this feeling pours forth from your soul
With native, pleasing vigour to control
The hearts of all your hearers, it will be in vain.
Pray keep on sitting! Pray collect and glue,
From others' feasts brew some ragout;
With tiny heaps of ashes play your game
And blow the sparks into a wretched flame!
Children and apes will marvel at you ever,
If you've a palate that can stand the part;
But heart to heart you'll not draw men, no, never,
Unless your message issue from your heart.(...)

 

[anart]

I'm single because I'm not yet the person I want to be.

:) I can't help it. Your post inspired me to look at it from a slightly different point of view. So you decided to not play the game until you have developed your ideal self.

At least until you can actually recognize what you - the real you - actually likes and does not like. Otherwise, you are feeding a lie of the false personality and are likely food.

If one of your true mates, an unknown stranger, one fine day saw you as you really are, truly loved you, would you recognize him or her?

Only if you had developed that part of yourself who could recognize him/her. If one's programs are running, then one almost always likes what one's essence does not like. Think about that - it is a horrific thought and happens all day long, every single day, all over the planet - resulting in suffering all around. Until one begins to know oneself, how can they possibly know who they might love?

If one has nothing to give - no true, real, part of themselves that has developed - then how can they possibly recognize and attract the person they will objectively love?

. Maybe all you can see is an ideal self-conception in progress -- what if the progress never ends? Would you ever be ready? Do you wanna depend on this?

I don't! :P

You don't? The alternative is to move from one fake relationship to another, with nothing to truly give because you have nothing real inside you. The alternative is to move from one feeding situation to another, building your false self, hurting your real self, the entire time while you dream you are loving when you never even approach love's doorstep. I cannot imagine a more horrific existence.

To stop - to gain perspective with an understanding that one cannot give love until one has something to give - some self-knowledge - some self - is to act consciously. To love is to know - without knowledge one cannot love and I think Puck's post is an example of beginning to understand the monumentally negative ramifications of mechanical attraction and 'love' on oneself and others.
fwiw.

 

[Turgon]

How can I deal with it?
Maybe I should write very detailed about these situations, what goes through my mind etc. and try to figure out where and how to begin with dealing with this predator mind.There are all kinds of different thoughts, opinions, feelings etc. going through my mind. Insecurities, assumptions, fear etc. It's also difficult to understand if the other really likes you or not and when I think that the other doesn't, this program of hate and distrust kicks in. Actually it already gets activated in the beginning, but becomes even more active when I think that the other doesn't like me.
On the other hand there are different thoughts that say that I should not be angry and mean, that there is no reason to be afraid etc. But these thoughts are weaker present than the hate program.

I think I just need to have these thought patterns at a glance, instead of having them contradicting each other, confusing each other, basically flying around and clouding my whole perception of what to do. I just need to try to know where each thought pattern is coming from.

Is this a good way of trying to handle with this?

That's the best way (at the moment) to deal with and handle so many contradicting thoughts. Writing thoughts down, having a journal to almost kind of discuss the matters with ourselves is so simple yet invaluable. Plus, there's so much that can go through a person's mind and in so many different directions, I find it gives valuable insight into your mind as long as you write freely and not try to edit, delete, etc. Then you can go back and re-read what was written which gives you an opportunity to reflect on your reflection!

 

[Faith]

You don't? The alternative is to move from one fake relationship to another, with nothing to truly give because you have nothing real inside you. The alternative is to move from one feeding situation to another, building your false self, hurting your real self, the entire time while you dream you are loving when you never even approach love's doorstep. I cannot imagine a more horrific existence.

Ok, ok, god forbid. This would be the exact opposite of what I want. That's why I have difficulties myself. That's definitely not the way I wanna go. hm.. hm.. seems, that I just thought/ hoped I might be on the right track, that appeared to be a fortunate shortcut. In reality this contradictory path could have let me astray. So all the everyday couples, that seem to work out, friends of mine, who seem happy, are probably all delusive, trapped in illusions. Well, It's usually worse than I think. I see your point. I am contradicting myself. Being able to know myself is the very basis of being external considering, and that must be well developed. Therefor many lessons must be learned. Strange, I did point that out in another post, thought I got it, once and for all. How easily do I forget... depends on which I is posting, I guess... hm... hm... I see, I see, well... trial and error. No matter if I want depend on it or not -- I do depend on it and I don't know, what true love is.

But one thing I know for sure, Anart, it's good to have you here. You keep my I's busy :D

 

[anart]

Well, It's usually worse than I think.

Yep.

Strange, I did point that out in another post, thought I got it, once and for all. How easily do I forget... depends on which I is posting, I guess... hm... hm... I see, I see, well...

It's fascinating to watch that happen, isn't it? Great value in seeing it, though - when we see it, we have an opportunity to stop it - though that can take some time. :)

 

[Buddy]

This quote might be interesting:

[quote author=GURDJIEFF]

Life is real only then, when "I am"
ALL AND EVERYTHING/THIRD SERIES, G. I. GURDJIEFF, p. 166-169

This vicious weakness "to express sympathy"


And thus, among the number of unexpectedly arisen circumstances which prevented me in this period from fulfilling the "Being-task" I had set myself, was suddenly and unexpectedly established this vicious weakness, which has gained citizenship in the general psyche of modern man—"to express sympathy."

It has just occurred to me that the thoughts which I expressed to a small group of people at a meeting in a suburb, in connection with the death of Mr. Orage, might serve as a better clarification of the meaning and significance of the whole contents of this chapter, and I have therefore decided to recollect these thoughts in my memory and to add them here.

At this meeting, while drinking coffee, we were speaking of the different habits which take possession of us in our childhood, and which enslave us also after the attainment of mature years.

At this moment there arrived one of their comrades, with a jolly, flushed face. Being late, he had probably been walking quicker than usual, and he had not reckoned on running into me. But as soon as he caught sight of me, the expression of his face changed and, coming up to me, he "burst" out at once with his sentence, learned by heart from the list of "sympathies."

At this point I could no longer contain myself and, turning to them all, said:
"Have you heard the peculiar intonation, not proper to him, with which your comrade who has just come has delivered his bombastic speech?

"Did you? . . . Good. Now then, ask him, that is, beg him, please, for once in his life to make an exception and to say honestly whether his 'inside,' that is, his real being, had any connection whatever with his spoken words.

"Of course it had none, and how could it be otherwise, for, in the first place, the deceased person concerned in this case was not a 'blood brother' of his and, in the second place, he could not possibly know or feel what attitude the person to whom he addressed his flowery speech had toward the event.

"His words were spoken quite mechanically, without the least participation of his being, and he said them only because, in his childhood, his nurse had taught him in such cases 'to lift the right leg and not the left.'
[/quote]

Although the subject title of this section is the weakness "to express sympathy", this idea can also be considered in the context of most all our current social rituals and programmed wants, needs and expectations.

Understanding the basic psychology, reading Gurdjieff and Recapitulating your life can provide some useful insights. Here's one way I see things from the Work I've done so far:

In order for a child to be a source of meeting the emotional needs of parents and/or others, the child must learn, at some point, to deny his own authentic needs. He must learn to deny that he has his own interests, wants and needs in favor of adopting the programs that are trained into him so that the needs of others can be met instead. This 'programming' or these 'teachings' makes the child acceptable in the family, acceptable to social groups, the culture and society in general.

To me, this is the basic denial of his authentic self - such as it is at that stage of development. But it doesn't end there. The child knows what he has done and finds it intolerable for the most part, and so must deny his denial - to find a way to accept and start believing in the world according to others. At that point, he has buffered his original denial - his sin against his own soul - and can now operate from a false self - or ego. It's like curving your awareness in on itself and looking out at the world through a rear-view mirror instead of a more direct experience. It makes it easier to pretend you exist as other than you really are, osit.

If I were still single and had to answer this question I would probably say "because I haven't met anyone Real...or perhaps...I haven't met anyone I can be Real with", or something like that. :)

 

[Deleted member 4737]

Kinda been avoiding posting here mostly cuz my thoughts were in disarray and I couldn't quiet my I's and get a clear picture. But after some introspection and journalling I came to a rather simple conclusion: I'm single because I'm not yet the person I want to be. My ideal self has a different set of attitudes, behaviors and probably a much more mature personality so it would be silly of me to date seriously since people will be attracted to an image of myself that 1.) isn't real and 2.) isn't what I want myself to be.

I have dated, not a lot, but enough to know that people are either way too interested in my false-self or turned off by certain aspects of same. In order to avoid believing lies about myself and to avoid projecting same it makes much more sense to avoid the game all together, focus on self-work and not get wrapped up in the chemical-soup that results from 'falling in love' with someone. I use quotes to denote the pseudo-love that is more physical-chemical based as opposed to that which is based on a deep understanding and spiritual bond between two collinear individuals.

So that, in a nutshell, is why I'm single.

Nice post, quite profound. It seems in the last few years, that the more work I do on myself, I don't care as much about finding someone, but more about being 'found', at least by me. Your post really made me stop and think about that for a bit. Not sure what else to say about that but nice insight!

 

[henry]

That's definitely not the way I wanna go. hm.. hm.. seems, that I just thought/ hoped I might be on the right track, that appeared to be a fortunate shortcut. In reality this contradictory path could have let me astray.

When things appear to be a "fortunate shortcut", it is always good to step back and take another look. :)

So all the everyday couples, that seem to work out, friends of mine, who seem happy, are probably all delusive, trapped in illusions.

Yes, from the point of view of the Real Self. But many people are not yet ready to confront those illusions. They can still be happy in the illusion. But for those of us who are here on this forum, we have, hopefully, decided to see them for what they are.

 

[Faith]

It's fascinating to watch that happen, isn't it? Great value in seeing it, though - when we see it, we have an opportunity to stop it - though that can take some time. :)

But it's also frustrating when you are too slow, when you can only watch it in retrospective view. Even when I watch it in realtime sometimes, I can't stop it, because it feels like: you just got the ball rolling -- now there is no turning back -- each and everything and everyone expects it to happen -- rule of causality -- breaking the chain would feel strange, alienated and insane -- nature forbids -- it's like a reflex -- automatism -- .

In order for a child to be a source of meeting the emotional needs of parents and/or others, the child must learn, at some point, to deny his own authentic needs. (...) The child knows what he has done and finds it intolerable for the most part, and so must deny his denial - to find a way to accept and start believing in the world according to others. (...) I would probably say "because (...) I haven't met anyone I can be Real with", or something like that. :)

:) Great post! It definitely resonates with some of my I's. It's s o damn hard to resist an environment full of manipulative patterns. A friend of mine, who loves to travel around the world once mentioned two girls sitting in a plane on their way home -- it was their first trip into the unknown. "I can't wait showing my parents and friends how much I changed, how different I see things now, how much I've learned and how different I am now!" -- The friend of mine smiled and said to himself:"Heh, heh, well... when you are back home, every day life will have you absorbed within a week -- you will become the same old you and nothing new will be left -- so soon. Enjoy your freedom while you can!" In order to turn against the stream I need something to grasp at, something stable -- an anchor like Gurdjieff and the fourth way psychology, Mme de Salzmann and the honesty and objectivity of a truthful network.

When things appear to be a "fortunate shortcut", it is always good to step back and take another look. :) (...) They can still be happy in the illusion. But for those of us who are here on this forum, we have, hopefully, decided to see them for what they are.

There is no shortcuts, even though we have been taught there would be. There is only hard work. Many people seem to only live in their freetime. They seem to think work is something that must be avoided. Every businessman is taught: Put in the less -- get out the most. If work does not feel like real life, then I guess you are doing the wrong work, or so I think... work is life -- life is religion.


See, Puck. I disavowed your post, your insights and started to dig a tunnel, so to speak

 

[Paragon]

I'm now single for reasons that I'm not entirely sure yet and I fear I may have not thought about it through in an objective way.

I had been going out with my girlfriend for 2 years and she was a lovely, laid back and mature person for her age (19) and we really clicked together. We hardly ever fought and when we did it was infrequent. We went through a period of arguing alot ( probably feeding on each other), but this was before I knew of the work. After I found the work, the fighting stopped and we could point each others faults and mistakes so that we could function better. The was a lot of communication in this relationship too, and I feel that we were doing great. Until I started to have this 'missing' out feeling and not feeling as committed to the relationship as she was herself. I know that it is an illusion, that of the 'single' life and I know that it is a shallow life too.... but I can't seem to ignore it.

So I seem to have this STS desire to go out and 'live life', instead of being happy with what we have together, and what we had together was great. I feel like I need to get that side of myself out of my system before I can truly commit to a relationship with someone because I've always had a girlfriend since I was 13 ( now 20) so I've not had the chance to really be 'single'

So I guess I'm wondering what is the right option in this situation? Do I go back with her , a girl I still love (or so I think) or do I get it out my system before I cheat on her?

Thank you :)