Why are you single?

[bjorb]

[quote author=menna]So in closing the avatar picture isn't my 5 year old attempt to say "Hey look at me" I wanted others to realize what it takes - what character traits one has to have to look like this. I would think the best picture that would show people who you are would be a picture of yourself[/quote]

Hey Menna, Trying to bring realization to others can take many forms. You tell that you want to express your character traits in that picture, your discipline. But consider that if you want others to recognize your discipline. It's for internal reasons. Since it's about you.
Bringing realization if pure is always focused external. It doesn't has anticipation for the self. It shares so that others can learn from it. :)

 

[RyanX]

So in closing the avatar picture isn't my 5 year old attempt to say "Hey look at me" I wanted others to realize what it takes - what character traits one has to have to look like this. I would think the best picture that would show people who you are would be a picture of yourself

Hey Menna,

I had a similar experience in my youth being overly identified with running, specifically distance running. It takes great discipline and tolerance to pain to be able to run in these races and compete. I managed to climb the ladder slowly by training, training and more training. Runners don't (typically) identify with their bodies, they identify with their race times, but the process of identification is still the same.

If one were to tell me back then that I was identified with "running", I would have laughed (assuming I could even comprehend what "identification" meant). I was too submersed in the lifestyle to see outside of it. I could be wrong, but it sounds like this is where you are at right now.

Anyways, others have already said this more eloquently, but identification with anything is an aspect of our ego or "false personality". What if you were to attempt to divert more of your discipline and will used in body building to Self Observation? I don't mean to imply that you are not self observing at all, but as I've found, one can always work on Self Observation no matter how far along they think they are spiritually, OSIT.

 

[Menna]

FWIW just learned this abbreviation on this forum - YAY - I wanted to remove the "I was insulted" from my most recent post but couldn't find the edit button. I wanted to remove it because Its not fair to say I am insulted, I can't be insulted unless I LET someone insult me - people set themselves up to be hurt you cannot be hurt without letting others hurt you. Not to say that I was really hurt by the comments - I do believe that everyone on this forum is trying to help one another and this is a network to higher knowledge - but yes when I first read it I was a little insulted and I feel that it is important to share feelings as they arise.

I guess it really was a good decision to choose this avatar - I have learned a lot from reading the various responses. I guess I got defensive when reading the responses and I do that sometimes - especially with my parents - I become defensive and feel like I have to justify myself. If you look at the reason why I become defensive I believe it is because I value what certain people think (As I am not defensive with everyone) so in a sense me becoming defensive is a compliment and I do value what everyone on this board thinks and feels because everyone here is trying to learn and grow. This topic has definitely been a learning experience for me. Believe me I do value each post and try and look at each reply objectively. I don't sit here like a 16 your old hotheaded kid saying, "What is this jerk talking about." I try and read and re read what everyone says as I realize its takes time to post and reply and people are taking time out of their lives to reply and I want to say thank you for doing that.

Talk about everything happens for a reason- I find it VERY interesting that I put up this avatar and then about 20-30 posts latter I started a topic on "Why are you single" and it leads to this - realizing that I do get overly defensive. I think I learned something about myself.

I wouldn’t say that I identify myself with my body. What I do identify myself with are the character traits - attributes that I have and practice on a daily basis these qualities have lead to the body that I have so it is fair to say I am proud of my body. I couldn't find a pictures that said, will power, dedication, hard work, self sacrifice - So I guess you can say my avatar is a hidden message to what characteristics I have and I will admit I am proud of my characteristics - another word for characteristics is individuality and this is who I am as an individual this is what I was trying to portray.

I do have a questions - Is it wrong to identify yourself with something - is identification purely derived from the ego? If the answer to this quest is yes - what If someone said I identify myself with my soul is that wrong because the soul is who we are?

Sijing said it best - Try and look at this objectively. Why should I expect someone to view my avatar the way I view it. Isn't everyone different won't people have different viewpoints and ideas? (Rhetorical questions)

I feel like I made a mistake Mrs. Peel and Stormy Knight - you where simply asking a question and sharing an idea and opinion. I encourage the sharing of ideas, feelings and opinions, as that is how we grow through communication. I am extremely extremely extremely sorry that jumped on your reply's saying judgment this and assumption that - sorry about that I guess that’s the human in me.


RyanX - As I clicked reply it said there was another post and to review it so I did – I liked it thank you for the runner’s example. Like I said I don't identify myself with my body or bodybuilding I actually want to thank bodybuilding because it has lead me on a path of self observation and spiritually it was and is a stepping stone to my own growth. As I said earlier in my post what I am guilty of is identifying myself with my character/individual traits. These things have lead to the body I have and I am proud of that but I do realize that I am and everyone is more than their body....."WE ARE SPIRITUAL BEING HAVING A HUMAN EXPERIENCE"

 

[wildflowerkl]

"No offense, curiouskat, but this post, in this context, reads like a pick up line and nothing more."

NOTHING MORE????? You honestly posted that??

HOW DARE YOU COME TO A SAFE PLACE LIKE THIS AND JUDGE ME AND MY INTENTS?

This is a place to align with others who have heard some type of call, see the symbols in their lives, read books that have opened their minds. When I am here this is only a place where I can connect with others to know I am not so alone in this world, because as we know there are not alot of STO candidates as ...and I don't know why, but for some reason we are all drawn together to talk, learn and expand our knowledge. Nothing more.

YOU Anart....are acting nothing more than an STS taking my energy, feeding off of others. Posing in this forum as something more. You have taken my posts and OTHERS I am sure and have given no valued comments except telling me to "read up". I don't know what you story is , I judge no one until they show me with their behavior who they are, however I am condemning you today I have seen enough. You have no idea who I am as a 28 year old awakened person and I am exposing you for your true self today. Today I am holding a mirror in front of you. I see who you really are. And because of you, this place is no longer a safe one. Who needs moderators anyway?...if this life is about FREE WILL you should hold no power here because it seems you don't believe anyone knows better than you. You treat this forum as a hierarchy...when all the Cs, Laura, your higher selves, and now me have told you there is none. There are 7 densities, but we are the c's, they are us...we are all ONE. I am moving to a forum with no moderators, and total freedom. if you erase this ..then you will be taking the FREE WILL from others to be given this option. Remember that.

Anyone is welcome to come to the google group and just talk.....I promise there will be no moderators dissecting every word and judging you. All are welcome.



I am out. Take care everyone and have a happy journey!


Edit=Disable link

 

[ana]

I do have a questions - Is it wrong to identify yourself with something - is identification purely derived from the ego? If the answer to this quest is yes - what If someone said I identify myself with my soul is that wrong because the soul is who we are?

It is an ego self-defensive rationalization. The question itself is ego based, it is closed and directed to the ego interest.

Please see your question again:

what If someone said I identify myself with my soul

It is not about identifying with the soul, it is about Being the soul.

is that wrong because the soul is who we are?

To be we must work, many things must die.

Edit: spelling

 

[bjorb]

[quote author=menna]I do have a questions - Is it wrong to identify yourself with something - is identification purely derived from the ego? If the answer to this quest is yes - what If someone said I identify myself with my soul is that wrong because the soul is who we are?
[/quote]

With identification is meant being attached to certain ideas that feeds the predator. So yes it’s Ego. Like already said it’s about being the soul. When you BE, there is no identification or anticipation involved.

 

[ana]

YOU Anart....are acting nothing more than an STS taking my energy, feeding off of others. Posing in this forum as something more. You have taken my posts and OTHERS I am sure and have given no valued comments except telling me to "read up". I don't know what you story is , I judge no one until they show me with their behavior who they are, however I am condemning you today I have seen enough.

You are condemning...?, no matter who in your twisted mind you think you are, this behaviour is not tolerated on this forum curiouskat.

You have no idea who I am

Well your responses are very enlightening.

as a 28 year old awakened person and I am exposing you for your true self today. Today I am holding a mirror in front of you. I see who you really are. And because of you, this place is no longer a safe one.

Thanks for showing who you really are behind the mask it saves time and energy to us all.

Who needs moderators anyway?...
if this life is about FREE WILL you should hold no power here because it seems you don't believe anyone knows better than you. You treat this forum as a hierarchy...when all the Cs, Laura, your higher selves, and now me have told you there is none.

We don't want to believe we want to KNOW, and now, we know.

Anyone is welcome to come to the google group and just talk.....I promise there will be no moderators dissecting every word and judging you. All are welcome.

Oh! And you will be teaching, don't you?
Thanks again for showing us your agenda.

 

[Nienna]

"No offense, curiouskat, but this post, in this context, reads like a pick up line and nothing more."

NOTHING MORE????? You honestly posted that??

HOW DARE YOU COME TO A SAFE PLACE LIKE THIS AND JUDGE ME AND MY INTENTS?

Because, if you haven't noticed, anart is a moderator of this forum, of which you are a member of. Anart has been working on herself for quite a while and has a very good grasp of "seeing" objectively.

Maybe one should ask you why you have become so defensive?

This is a place to align with others who have heard some type of call, see the symbols in their lives, read books that have opened their minds.

Yes, but it is also, and foremost, a place of learning how to Work on oneself. To network because others can see us much better than we can see ourselves. If you have come here only to socialize, then you are in the wrong bar.

I have to say, curiouskat, that you have the flavor of "new age" very much about you. New Age is a very subjective state of mind where you create your own reality. What we do here is learn to see things in an objective manner. Even ourselves.

When I am here this is only a place where I can connect with others to know I am not so alone in this world, because as we know there are not alot of STO candidates as ...and I don't know why, but for some reason we are all drawn together to talk, learn and expand our knowledge. Nothing more.

Nothing more! What about learning about ourselves, our programs, our self-importance, having mirrors to show us how we are perceived by others who can see us better than we can see ourselves?

Most of the people here, especially those who have been here a while, realize that they come here to learn how to clean their machine, to get their programs under control. By your totally over-the-top outburst, it is quite evident that your emotions are running away with you. You are reacting like the machine that you are. Which is not a put-down, but an observation. We are all machines, but some of us are trying to be less mechanical and to be more in control of our programs.

Why are you here? Really?

YOU Anart....are acting nothing more than an STS taking my energy, feeding off of others.

YOU, curiouskat, are WAY out of line. You are very close to being banned if you do not cool off and think about just exactly why you are here.

Posing in this forum as something more. You have taken my posts and OTHERS I am sure and have given no valued comments except telling me to "read up". I don't know what you story is , I judge no one until they show me with their behavior who they are, however I am condemning you today I have seen enough.

You are obviously not seeing things as they are. Anart has NEVER done any of the ridiculous things you are ACCUSING her of. And the fact that you are making these comments mean that you have not "read up" on the material that would get you up to speed so that you could be on a collinear path as the rest of us here, because from what you have posted, you are most certainly NOT on the same page as most of us on this forum are.

You have no idea who I am as a 28 year old awakened person

That, alone, right there shows just how much you DON"T know. You are asleep dreaming you are awake. The fact that you think that you are awake shows just how asleep you really are. Your self-importance is astounding.

and I am exposing you for your true self today. Today I am holding a mirror in front of you. I see who you really are.

You can see nothing. Have you read any of Gurdjieff's work? You really should That would help you see just how "not even wrong" you are.

And because of you, this place is no longer a safe one. Who needs moderators anyway?

Obviously, you do. The only place this forum is not safe for are psychopaths and their ilk. This outburst is truly uncalled for. You have clearly shown who you are in this post.

...if this life is about FREE WILL you should hold no power here because it seems you don't believe anyone knows better than you. You treat this forum as a hierarchy...when all the Cs, Laura, your higher selves, and now me have told you there is none. There are 7 densities, but we are the c's, they are us...we are all ONE. I am moving to a forum with no moderators, and total freedom. if you erase this ..then you will be taking the FREE WILL from others to be given this option. Remember that.

This really shows just how much you do not know about, not only free will, but what this group is about. It's sad, really.

Anyone is welcome to come to the google group and just talk.....I promise there will be no moderators dissecting every word and judging you. All are welcome.



I am out. Take care everyone and have a happy journey!

This is a good idea. That way you can continue to dream that you are awake. You can create your own reality to hearts content. And that's fine. Nobody is nay-saying you to do so. This is what is right for you. This forum doesn't seem to be the right place as you are not interested in really waking up.

I do see that you are still a member so maybe this was just all for dramatic purposes?

 

[Buddy]

I do have a questions - Is it wrong to identify yourself with something - is identification purely derived from the ego? If the answer to this quest is yes - what If someone said I identify myself with my soul is that wrong because the soul is who we are?

One can be identified with anything. Some identification may be necessary like when you're engaged in an activity intended to benefit others and you feel yourself a part of it, and for a time, the project identifies a portion of your life (force) from your own point of view. However, if someone were to criticize or insult your work and instead of trying to evaluate your work from that point of view to see if it can be done better, instead you feel negative emotions arise and you 'blame' the other person for those emotions, then I would say it is an undesirable identification within the false personality due to a hidden pretension.

With me, negative emotions arising in such a situation has meant there is already a buffer in place against hearing or seeing anything that might lead me to believe I have wasted my time or am not as 'important' as I thought I was; that I was pretending to know or to be able to do something that I did not know or was not able to do properly...something there that I would rather have kept hidden from view - from myself and/or from others.

The tell-tale signs come from the reactions.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

HOW DARE YOU COME TO A SAFE PLACE LIKE THIS AND JUDGE ME AND MY INTENTS?

A decent man will behave decently even if he thinks that he has been treated unjustly or wrongly. But many people in such circumstances show a side of their nature which otherwise they would never show. And at times it is a necessary means for exposing a man's nature. So long as you are good to a man he is good to you. But what will he be like if you scratch him a little?

 

[Nienna]

I do have a questions - Is it wrong to identify yourself with something - is identification purely derived from the ego? If the answer to this quest is yes - what If someone said I identify myself with my soul is that wrong because the soul is who we are?

I don't know if this will help you out, Menna, but this is what the Cassiopedia has to say about Identification:

This is a nearly constant, universal feature of man's psyche. Identification takes place when some external item catches one's attention and one forgets all else. Identification is the mechanism which makes man a machine reacting to any environmental stimulus that may match his arbitrary fancy.

The 4th Way Work seeks to oppose man's automatic and routine tendency to identify with the practice of self-remembering. It is noteworthy that man loses any semblance of self-consciousness, forgets himself, when in a state of identification.

One can be identified with anything: A thought, an emotion, one's vacation plans, any social activity, the more emotionally involving, the greater the likelihood and extent of identification and self-forgetting will be.

An additional problem is that people often think that good work can only be produced in a state of identification. One 'must give the work of art/science/social situation one's all, be passionate,' and so forth, it is said. As the 4th Way sees it, all these perceived qualities of enthusiasm, spontaneity, passion are overwhelmingly mechanical and strip one of the little free will or being one might otherwise possess.

Good work requires being present in the situation, but one cannot be present in any real sense if one is identified, mechanically pursuing some program or other which the situation happens to have invoked. Presence in a real sense is not possible without 'being' and 'being' is not possible if one is purely reacting and lacks internal cohesion.

The terms fascination and confluence are used to indicate a specially strong state of identification.

See Program, Self-Remembering, Being.

 

[herondancer]

Looks like Mrs. Peel has accurately touched a nerve. You're reaction has been incredibly explosive.

If you are still here Curiouskat, and a little calmer, try imagining saying this out loud to a male acquaintance.

[...] although I am a young female who can appreciate an attractive guy IS NOT sending that message out. In fact, it very much gives almost an asexual message as if his body is a medium for the balance he seeks within, not a vehicle for pleasure.

I'd be surprised if he didn't take it as a pickup line of the "reverse psychology" sort. That potential subliminal message was brought out to be discussed. It is always hoped that the person will be willing to look at themselves and say "Yes, it's possible I meant this or that without being aware of it. I will think about it and post my conclusions for further discussion". This is what we call "cleaning the machine"; becoming aware of all the unconscious elements of our being and getting control over them. Serious, mature individuals who want to work on themselves may have very strong feelings at being questioned about their posts, and even express them, but they don't throw what amounts to a tantrum.

Herondancer

 

[anart]

"No offense, curiouskat, but this post, in this context, reads like a pick up line and nothing more."

NOTHING MORE????? You honestly posted that??

Yes.

HOW DARE YOU COME TO A SAFE PLACE LIKE THIS AND JUDGE ME AND MY INTENTS?

Didn't judge anything, just stated what appeared to be the obvious truth. Your reaction confirms it. This IS a safe place, which means attempts at predation will be pointed out.

YOU Anart....are acting nothing more than an STS taking my energy, feeding off of others. Posing in this forum as something more. You have taken my posts and OTHERS I am sure and have given no valued comments except telling me to "read up". I don't know what you story is , I judge no one until they show me with their behavior who they are, however I am condemning you today I have seen enough. You have no idea who I am as a 28 year old awakened person and I am exposing you for your true self today. Today I am holding a mirror in front of you. I see who you really are. And because of you, this place is no longer a safe one. Who needs moderators anyway?...if this life is about FREE WILL you should hold no power here because it seems you don't believe anyone knows better than you. You treat this forum as a hierarchy...when all the Cs, Laura, your higher selves, and now me have told you there is none. There are 7 densities, but we are the c's, they are us...we are all ONE. I am moving to a forum with no moderators, and total freedom. if you erase this ..then you will be taking the FREE WILL from others to be given this option. Remember that.

Anyone is welcome to come to the google group and just talk.....I promise there will be no moderators dissecting every word and judging you. All are welcome.
I am out. Take care everyone and have a happy journey!

If you are sincerely interested in knowing who you are then re-read this post as if someone else wrote it. Read it as the revealing document it is. Your emotional reaction and outrage indicate that I pressed a nerve because what I said is true. You know it is true or you wouldn't have reacted in the manner you reacted.

Hopefully, at some point in the future, you'll be able to realize that about yourself. I've removed your 'discussion group' link since if you intend to fish for people, you can do it elsewhere. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Menna]

Nienna Eluch - Thank you for digging up what the C's had to say about ego and identification. I agree that people can get rapped up in the enthusiasm and passion of what they are doing and forget to be in the moment in the now - present with the task at hand. I feel that when I injure myself or something goes wrong that I am not present and my mind is taking control - thinking about everything but the task at hand.

Also I was thinking to myself that in order to identify with something it has to be outside you or else you wouldn't identify with it. Kind of makes one think why would anyone want to identify with something other then themselves. People who identify themselves with something outside of them are looking for happiness from something that isn’t them – that is dysfunctional thinking and never works. After reading the replies to my question I came up with the following - One can't identify with ones soul because that is who they are it is not outside them. Like the previous replies have said it’s not about identifying the soul it’s about being the soul.

Is it wrong that I identify myself with my individual personality? – Instead of saying this is who I am because of what I do and how I act – should I recognize my individual qualities try to understand the reason behind my actions, move on not attaching myself to them - would this be a better way to go about it?

 

[shijing]

One final observation, curiouskat, is that a number of your posts since you joined have had a real feeding dynamic inherent within them -- there is a strong penchant for cultivating allies through ego-stroking that you can then, presumably, turn to when others on the forum who, in line with the aims of the forum, try to expose your sacred cows and help you to see yourself. This may not be, and probably isn't, obvious to you, but it is to third-party readers. If you are really interested in awakening, then it is crucial that you lay aside your defensiveness and ego buffers and examine yourself first, before reacting to others. This is hard, difficult, painful, and a long-term project -- but absolutely necessary if you ever wish to begin to see reality, and yourself, objectively. Someday I hope that you will see that anart, along with the other moderators and forum members on this page who have addressed your outburst, have given you the most valuable gift that one could probably give at this point in your own journey.

Menna, your own response was encouraging and I am glad that you were able to step back and look at what others had said about your avatar more objectively. You may now have your thread back and continue to network and learn :)

Added: Menna, you hit the post button just before I did!

Is it wrong that I identify myself with my individual personality? – Instead of saying this is who I am because of what I do and how I act – should I recognize my individual qualities try to understand the reason behind my actions, move on not attaching myself to them - would this be a better way to go about it?

As a starting point in answering this question, I'm going to give you one more Cassiopedia entry to contemplate:

http://www.cassiopedia.org/glossary/Little_I%27s

 

[mabar]

[quote author=bjorn]
But that feeling of being a failure is our addiction into thinking that ego gives us a sense of identity, and in this case it's us who are obsessed into trying to be accepted by those people who ‘love’ us. They see us as extension of there own. There ‘love’ is nothing more than something they reflect on there own specialness. They only see themselves nothing more.
[/quote]

I did not saw it that way when I wrote it, I did cry … at night, I thought that I was still being hurt by that…now that I read it I remember all those things I have been reading about the negative emotions, predator, ego and such…I fall by them… I just give “them” appetizers :S

[quote author=bjorn]
Next to that, it’s a bloodline which for centuries is dominated by tragedy, power and bloodshed. You really want to be proud of that?
[/quote]

Certainly not, sometimes I think I had another relation with my mother as if I murderer her in treason in another time…because every now and then we have too many arguments, must be the karma.

Thanks and thanks for the love quotes, they help me to remember.

mabar