Wierdly excited about the Apocalypse much?

[Andrian]

Very interesting thread,thank you Odyssey for opening it, as to respond to the question ,yes when reading on Sott, articles(from puppet masters,society's child and other threads),contemplating how far the ptb have gone in corrupting our society,culture,traditions,way of life,life itself,our planet,I'll be honest when contemplating on all of the above my first thoughts are:ice age,earth changes,the cometary cluster, which will bring destruction,horror and death not because i'm thrilled about such a scenario but because as other members have said above i think at this point in time such a scenario is inevitable as the saying says" what you give to life that you will receive in return",we allowed to a small minority to corrupt our way of life,to destroy the kindness in us and pervert the love and respect for each other,we are almost as guilty as they are because we allowed them all of this to happen(some to a lesser degree some to a higher degree),anyhow excuse me i digressed a little, so i will repeat myself(excuse me for that)when reading articles(on various subjects) on Sott or on rare occasions(opening the forum rarely) when opening the forum and reading very informative and useful information I'm thinking often that indeed it seems that for all the people to start to see and finally to start to act against this darkness which has penetrated our world ,our reality,it needs to happen something extraordinary,something apocalyptic indeed, to wake us all up from this mindless,zombie-like type of life.Almost everyday i remember the C's session where it was said that there is a big probability that in the near future after or during some serious earth changes people will start to rise and revolt like in a global revolution,honestly i'm thinking and hoping about that almost everyday.

 

[Neil]

I agree with the general tone of what Odyssey is saying and find the prospect of an Apocalypse exciting if there's some high strangeness involved which is going to fundamentally alter the perception of how reality is perceived.

I find myself deeply yearning for the apocalypse to hurry up and get going. The main reason for this is because I don't see much in this world worth saving. If things stay stable, the only future that exists in this world is to be a commodity for the matrix. The PTB already have virtually complete control of everything that happens on the planet and will not stop until they own everyone and everything. The architecture of the national security state and the intrusion of disaster capitalism corporate thought into all areas of life will guarantee that all freewill is subsumed into the "greater good" of the Orwellian super state. The "zombie apocalypse" has already happened and more people are getting infected every day, they just haven't turned overtly violent yet. This world is hopeless.

The prospect of an apocalypse offers the chance that some deus ex machina will come from the universe that suddenly creates hope for a hopeless world and frees us from this mind-numbing, soul-crushing environment by changing the rules of the game. Once you're no longer fighting a hopeless battle against a superior opponent, some of these alternative ideas that don't currently fit in the consensus reality of "kill, rape, steal" so cleverly crafted by the PTB and their 4D handlers may have a real chance of changing the world. That would be a day worth living for. However, if the reality doesn't change in some fundamental way, we'll probably have a Mad Max style collapse while the Pathocracy reconsolidates power and starts over on another pointless cycle where nothing has really been accomplished...again.

In fact, my greatest fear at this point, is if something like "The Wave" really is coming we will have to deal with Mad Max for awhile until the transition occurs. Preparing for natural disasters is one thing, but I'm really not prepared to live in a reality where you have to be a killer to survive. I'm hoping the DCM has something in store which defies the conventional prepper wisdom and offers a smoother transition for those who want it.

At any rate, I think apocalypse is the best thing that can happen to this world in the reality that has been chosen. At worst, it destroys everything and prevents the PTB from making a complete hell where everyone is their slave and life isn't worth living. At best, it opens the door for the world to be transformed into paradise. I find either extreme preferable to being stuck in a negative feedback loop designed to maximize the "food for the moon."

 

[annp]

I think the above raises an important point - that so far until now, all that we know about disasters, global cataclysms and post-apocalyptic life comes from movies and books. No one living right now has ever lived through such an event on the global scale we're expecting. While the aftermath might be a fresh start and re-balancing, up to and during that, it will be complete chaos and suffering for the majority of people.

We can agree on this forum that the state of the world is currently the way it is because it's controlled by a psychopathic minority. While 'those of us in the know' might be able to prepare through diet, meditation, networking, reading, etc the majority of people - the billions around the world who may not be privy to what's coming - are still people. A large proportion of the population might be up the creek, but they're up the creek because they've been led there by those in control. To sit with excitement knowing the amount of suffering that is to come is not something I'm comfortable with.

I'm actually lamenting what's to come, why it is, how it is and how it got to be this way. Sure - the aftermath might be positive, but a lot of people who for whatever reason have not woken up, will suffer. It's easy to commentate and talk theoretically from our vantage point but I think to grin with excitement at the scale of suffering and destruction that's to come is kind of sick and twisted in my view. Perhaps from a higher perspective it will appear balanced and joyous - but for the here and now and in human form, I'll continue to maintain my humanity.

I have to agree, because while I know that this balancing is necessary in order to prepare for a new world with less pathology and ultimately less suffering, I am not looking forward to the catastrophe. I think of all the really good people who are clueless, and even though I know they have chosen this lesson at some level, when I think of the mass suffering that will ensue, it makes my heart heavy. It's hard not to think about friends and family members who are vulnerable, and yes, they have chosen to ignore the signs and that is their lesson, but I cannot look forward to it, and it is hard to even imagine what they will have to go through. It's one thing to know on an intellectual level that these things are necessary, but I think it will be quite another thing when we have to experience this. So...no, I am not excited about it.

I understand this is a necessary part of the process, and that the world cannot continue like this with the current state of pathology. There will be challenges and I think much good will come after the storm, and I am looking forward to overcoming the challenges and working to help create this new world. However, I feel very sad when I think about the immense suffering - even though I know that it is a necessary part of the process.

 

[theos]

I agree with the both of you (Aleana and MikeJoseph). The puzzling bit is the dichotomy of how I feel. I said I didn't dwell on the suffering that will take place because that's the most awful part. It will be incredibly awful to see family and strangers suffer. I'm not gonna be applauding that by any means. Moreover, who's to say that I will live through what is coming or even be in a position to look down from a relatively comfortable perch and feel badly for all the sleeping people who are suffering? My survival isn't guaranteed. I'm gonna have to experience my own suffering as well. Of course, I can say this now when the s*it hasn't quite hit the fan, but living through it (or dying from it) will be another matter entirely.

What's coming is not going to be gleeful but the fact that it's new and unknown makes it "exciting" (again on a mental and physiological level as when experiencing a novel stimulus or idea).


I dunno how well I'm explaining it but I hope that made sense. And no, MikeJoseph, I didn't see it as an attack. No worries.

It's just weird. (This time I spelled it right).

Edit: clarity

 

[obyvatel]

When we have an irrational response to a situation,

and we know we are having an irrational response but still it cannot be argued out of existence,

and such an experience is shared amongst a diverse group of people

- we need to think "archetype".

To me it appears that this specific situation and experience(s) point to the working of a constellated archetype - perhaps we can call it the archetype of apocalypse.

Whether such apocalypse is necessary or not, whether it is inevitable or not - such points are largely narratives to justify what at its core is an irrational intuitive tuning in to the specific working of the collective unconscious - the constellation of the apocalypse archetype. The concept of archetype comes mainly from Jungian psychology - it is discussed in a few places in the forum like Instinct and Archetype .

The term "constellation of an archetype" can be understood as energizing of a particular form. An analogy would be a part of the human brain "lighting up" under imaging when a specific neural network inside the brain is excited as a result of being engaged in a task or when being exposed to some stimulus.

The tuning in to such workings of the collective unconscious happens through the function of intuition - which is at its core an irrational function. There is a discussion on the rational and irrational functions of the psyche here .

Maybe the experiences would make more sense in this framework.

fwiw

 

[Mikey]

Lobaczewski writes about a certain "end of an era feeling of well-being" on the part of normal people in connection with overcoming macrosocial evil. Maybe we all feel this disease that we all are suffering from subconsciously , and any news in the direction of an "end", which also could bring the pathologicals down, already creates in us this positive feeling? I have to admit that I do feel this weird excitement whenever I read about our collapsing environment. Maybe the "end" is better in any event than continuning to live under a global pathocracy, which is essentially a hostile environment for normal people, where nothing is right, and everything is inverted and upside down?

In spite of the anxiety which such courageous psychotherapeutic operations necessarily engendered on both sides, my patients quickly assimilated the objective data they were furnished, complemented them with their own experiences, and required additional information and verification of their applications of this information. Spontaneous and creative reintegration of their personalities took place soon thereafter, accompanied by a similar reconstruction of their world view. Subsequent psychotherapy merely continued assistance in this ever more autonomous process and in resolving individual problems, i.e. a more traditional approach. These people lost their chronic tensions; their perceptive view of this deviant reality became increasingly realistic and laced with humor. Reinforcement of their capacity to maintain their own psychological hygiene, self-therapy, and self-pedagogy was much better than expected. They became more resourceful in practical life matters and were able to offer others good advice. Unfortunately, the number of persons whom a psychotherapist could trust adequately was very limited.

A similar effect should be attained on a macrosocial scale, something technically feasible under present conditions. At such an operational scale, it will liberate spontaneous interaction among such enlightened individuals and the social multiplication of therapeutic phenomena. The latter will then create a qualitatively new and most probably rather stormy social reaction; we should be prepared for this in order to calm it down. Finally, this will bring an overall feeling of relaxation and a triumph of proper science over evil; this cannot be negated by any verbalistic means, and physical force also becomes meaningless. Using measures so different from anything utilized before will engender an "end of an era" feeling during which this macrosocial phenomenon was able to emerge and develop, but is now dying. That would be accompanied by a sensation of well-being on the part of normal people.

 

[shellycheval]

Thanks for an interesting topic Odyssey. I think your response, my own which is the same, and many others, falls well within the range of “normal” human emotional reactions to possible danger. It generates from, as the article you posted states:

Lissek’s research on the human fear-response suggests that apocalyptic exhilaration is actually the product of useful evolutionary traits. “We’d rather have a false alarm than miss a potential threat,” he says. “Organisms endowed with brain circuitry leading them to take even minor threats”—such as the unlikely prospect of a worldwide Ebola outbreak—”seriously are more likely to pass on their genes.”

[my bold]

Other research I have read on the topic suggest the same—that it is a natural response to prepare us for a possible life-threatening situation. One article I read was discussing “why do we love our monsters?” speculating on why horror stories in books and film are so attractive to people. Why can’t we turn our heads when a giant shark bites someone in half or a murderer stalks his victim? Why is it so hard to look away when we pass a bad accident on the road? Or why am I glued to The Weather Channel when a monster hurricane is bearing down on the shore? Our fascination and the adrenaline rush that accompanies it help to prepare our minds and emotions for a possible response and “call to action” should the horror in front of our faces become a real threat to our body and home. We are morbid squirrels.

I read an article on research done on squirrels’ fear responses to danger. They trapped a squirrel in a backyard and secured him in the middle of the yard to see what the rest of the squirrels in the trees would do. Speculation was that it would drive the other squirrels away from the site of possible danger, but the opposite happened. The other squirrels approached cautiously to view the trapped squirrel and appeared “morbidly” fascinated by their comrade’s predicament. The researchers concluded the squirrels were assessing a possible new danger to themselves and saw their reactions as a survival mechanism which allowed them to prepare to avoid a similar situation.

So now, when I notice I am having an adrenaline rush to some vicarious possible threat that is not immanent, I chalk it up to a “morbid squirrel” reaction. I have noticed that an experience of an actual REAL threat of immanent danger produces a different reaction—a deeper level of shock type feeling that extends into the bowels, freezes the blood, and creates a feeling that poet Emily Dickenson so succinctly describes as “zero to the bone.” As the mammalian freeze response can kick in along with “normalizing,” and cause a shutdown and an inability to take decisive action to save ourselves, perhaps a little “practice” what-ifing possible dangerous situations is a good thing!

As the threat of Apocalypse is both immanent on a comic calendar but still somewhat removed from the day-to-day experience of many people on the planet, it is probably good we have these little shock/fear responses to what’s happening in the media around us in order to remain prepared.
shellycheval

 

[anothermagyar]

A great thread indeed!
Thanks Odyssey to bring this up! :)
I have to admit I feel this way also or perhaps I try to convert my fear to some useful energy,
concentrating what should I do to prepare to any case of scenario, when the time comes I can help.
I think the motivation for such feeling could be: we want justice.
Day after day we see violence, injustice and fascism rising, never-ending lies and horrible things are happening and
I think we want change.
This world need to end.
We prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

 

[placematt]

Awesome thread everyone.

A lot of reflections of how i feel too. For me the best to too describe it,

When learning to drive in the country its a very intimidating feeling coming to the city and driving. Because when i look at driving in the city its the whole city. Im not thinking of the street and only the street. I think it can be the same when it comes to a post apocalyptic environment. Im thinking of the entirety of the scenario. The destruction and hurt and the chance to start again and build something. The whole picture is bittersweet. THe end result can be wonderful and exciting. Even some of the process but ultimately the path will be difficult and maybe many people wont make it. Either way i guess we do the best we can.

Again, awesome thread everyone, hope this made some sense!! :)

 

[Dave_P]

Well, I admit that I often feel the same, as we some kind of "global shock" needed to end the "bad things", that does not mean i do not consider the consequences. But I think that throughout history, and lately, there were many shocks, it may be a way for the consortium to press to find the limit, unfortunately I think that limit has not yet come, so there are still many things unpleasant to see.

again, sorry for my english!! :/

 

[Mark7]

I enjoy apocalypse-themed stories as well. Perhaps we sense that some sort of re-balancing is needed and some sort of upheaval and associated disintegration of our way of life is inevitable. We live in a society created to calm and entertain us while, at some level we are drained of life and essence, apocalypse is part of the human experience and perhaps we sense a way to release pent-up creativity in such a scenario, be it real or made-up. Maybe some people feel the need to exercise their 'fight-or-flight', fast-thinking lower brain functions now and then.

When everything is just a show, bread and circuses as it were, it could be that we crave something real, something visceral.

This is a similar discussion as to why some people like to watch horror movies, or thrillers and some don't it seems. I don't care for gory, b-movie horror movies, but I must admit to enjoying a well done thriller. I know some people switch to high anxiety mode almost instantaneously if they even hear a creepy, or suspense-laden soundtrack - "turn it off quick, quick quick!".

Some people seem to be able to control their response to a fictional or made up scenario while others seem to have difficulty separating lower-brain responses to a story from those of a real life-threatening situation:

_http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/10/why-do-some-brains-enjoy-fear/280938/

[...] Not everyone enjoys being afraid, and I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that no one wants to experience a truly life-threatening situation. But there are those of us (well, a lot of us) who really enjoy the experience. First, the natural high from the fight or flight response can feel great. There is strong evidence that this isn’t just about personal choice, but our brain chemistry. New research from David Zald shows that people differ in their chemical response to thrilling situations. One of the main hormones released during scary and thrilling activities is dopamine, and it turns out some individuals may get more of a kick from this dopamine response than others do. Basically, some people’s brains lack what Zald describes as “brakes” on the dopamine release and re-uptake in the brain. This means some people are going to really enjoy thrilling, scary, and risky situations while others, not so much.

Lots of people also enjoy scary situations because it leaves them with a sense of confidence after it’s over. Think about the last time you made it through a scary movie, or through a haunted house. You might have thought, “yes! I did it! I made it all the way through!” So it can be a real self-esteem boost. But again, self-scaring isn’t for everyone, and there are lots of psychological and personal reasons someone may not enjoy scary situations. I’ve talked to more than a handful of people who will never set foot in a haunted house because they went to a haunt at a young age and were traumatized. I always recommend parents thoroughly check out the content and rating of a haunted attraction before bringing a child. The chemicals that are released during fight-or-flight can work like glue to build strong memories (“flashbulb memories”) of scary experiences, and if you’re too young to know the monsters are fake, it can be quite traumatic and something you’ll never forget, in a bad way.

What happens in our brains when we’re scared? Is it different when we’re scared “in a fun way” versus being actually afraid?

To really enjoy a scary situation, we have to know we’re in a safe environment. It’s all about triggering the amazing fight-or-flight response to experience the flood of adrenaline, endorphins, and dopamine, but in a completely safe space. Haunted houses are great at this—they deliver a startle scare by triggering one of our senses with different sounds, air blasts, and even smells. These senses are directly tied to our fear response and activate the physical reaction, but our brain has time to process the fact that these are not “real” threats. Our brain is lightning-fast at processing threat. I’ve seen the process thousands of times from behind the walls in ScareHouse—someone screams and jumps and then immediately starts laughing and smiling. It’s amazing to observe. I’m really interested to see where our boundaries are in terms of when and how we really know or feel we’re safe. [...]

 

[s-kur]

Sometimes i feel this excited too, and seldom it's following with guilt. I thought that it's inadequate feeling, but such value of mirroring and equal opinions slightly relieve my self-inadequate perception.
So, i think that for me it's a little of narcissism "I told you!", little of thinking about increasing of interesting and unexpected things in life contrary to routine and monotony...And the feeling like "exam" is next and we will see where we have gone. This knowledge protects against fear, anxiety and awe. So, i'm aware that "apocalypse-things" kicking in me too and it will be an adventure, prospect of glowing red sky seems like effort's reap for super survival struggle and heroic help to other.
...just a little of imagination :)

 

[Keit]

While what you say about the amount of suffering and destruction, MikeJoseph82, is certainly true, nothing can be done about it, except what we're doing to inform as many as possible. Also, the amount of suffering and destruction on the planet NOW is also hard to deal with. Seems to me that for most of human existence on 3rd D STS Earth, there's been horrendous suffering, and cyclical catastrophes. This doesn't make it any easier to emotionally deal with all the suffering on the planet, which is certain to get much worse soon, but it is what it is.

Yes, I think that the suffering that is already going on on the planet for humans and animals is already so unbearable, that this planet really needs a reset.

Maybe it's just one of those days, after seeing some unpleasant things at the place of my studies (vet student), but sometimes it's really hard seeing what we do to the animals (and believe me, stuff like this is a very tiny tip of a huge iceberg), and in many cases there is no other choice. So the horror of the situation also has to do with the people, and how this kind of events changes them. How young people are so hollow and so disinterested in anything beside their iphone. How empathy is being ridiculed and kindness is being cynically used.

Ok, so there will be hardships, there will be a lot of horror, fear, destruction, no doubt about that. But it's already happening everywhere, just disguised in all kind of noble words like "struggle for freedom", for example. At least when mother Nature will strike, it will be honest and straightforward. It will be giving truth to the lie.

So yeah, looking forward to the changes too, whatever they are. Just hope to be among friends at that time.

As for having a physiological or mental excitement, maybe there is a physiological basis to it as well. There is this article, that mentions how successful learning of the meanings of new words activates a core reward center in the adult brain, just like sex, gambling or eating chocolate. So it seems that facing challenges, overcoming them and learning new things is very rewarding for the brain!

 

[electrosonic]

I have to admit, when I first read this thread I also experienced a mild sense of joy at the thought of the coming events, but that joy also left a bitter taste in my mouth, so I've been pondering over why, and this morning I experienced a 'Eureka!' moment, and now have the answer.

So here's my realization - please read along and see whether or not this may well apply to yourself ...


I suddenly realized this - there are certain aspects of my life that I'm not entirely happy with, and I know no-one's going to be able to change these aspects except for myself, but I'm suffering from a block, or maybe fear, or maybe just a sense of needing to make my life easier by keeping the peace ....

... when suddenly here comes the apocalypse, and as if by magic all my problems have been erased. I no longer have to face the lessons I SHOULD of been facing because circumstances on the planet have negated them null & void.

So I've realized that what I was really experiencing when I was first hit by that sense of excitement when reading this thread, was just a 'wishful thinking' that the cosmos will come down and erase all my problems for me, and present me with a fresh start.

I think I've learned enough to know that there is no free ride.

Lots of people have said that what they're looking forward to is the new adventure ahead & new lessons to be learned etc ... LIFE NOW is already an adventure, and have we sufficiently learned all the lessons we need to, to be able to take the next step?

Have a think.

 

[Prysm]

Waking up this morning I didnt expect to see a thread going that seemed to really resonate with what was going on with me lately. I admit I have had a rather excited outlook, bordering on almost obsessive, about doomsday and apocalyptic scenarios that seem to be imminent. As I read the news and research of the on-goings of the planet mingled with the C's transmissions and other ancient prophecies, I have this almost visceral craving for the end to come and wash away all the horrors I have become aware of around me. It has been in the background for years now, sometimes gaining strength and permeating me more strongly, making me think that it might be the only way out of this mess we are in now. It seems a lot of us here can understand this feeling/view that grasps hold of me, seeming to almost intoxicate ones thinking. But over the last month I have been thinking about my interaction with this concept.

It first started with me thinking about my interaction with the Universe on a micro level, my job. I am a server, been waiting tables for about 10 years now as my primary source of income. Over time I became rather jaded with it, mingling self importance and assumptions into it that has caused me be become stressed and distraught when it comes to happiness with what I am doing for my source of income. I started thinking about Gurdjieff and one of his quotes about how you can be nice to people when they are kind to you, but what of your character when someone is to scratch and cause harm(something along those lines). I was getting angry at bad tips and the entitled way people would act when they dinned. I started to close off my humanity towards people and only see them as potential dollar signs to feed my need to survive. I was being scratch and lashing out, not really at them, but behind the scenes in anger. Then i decided a change in perspective was in order.

I didnt want to send out this negativity to the Universe anymore. The two primary changes in mindset i switched with regards to my interaction with the Universe was 1) Not to worry about money or finances. If what you send out is what the Universe perceives, i wish to undo the worry/fear/anger that is my present energy transmission. 2) To not see people as dollar signs and simply a source of income, but to genuinely interact with them, bring a meaningful moment into their lives, to serve, STO. I had to admit, its been and still is a struggle to adjust myself to this new stance after ingrained years of the old attitude, but changes have been happening. The more I am serving in what i think seems to be an STO type manner, the better I seem to do. I have increased my take home average 150-200% on average lately. So something seems to be working. And thats were faith seems to come in, based on what the C's had mentioned. I reflected on the past and made a change, but didnt have much in tangible facts to draw on. It was more spiritual/cosmic principles i was trying to work with, so i could only really have some faith that it might work out if I tried to utilize the theorized effects.

I apologize for this being a long thread, as I am only partly through now, but I wanted to share my experiences and understandings to the group. I have been quite the board lurker for quite some time, and rarely partake in much active discussion, so I wanted to pass along my experience to open up to you all and engage more. I have interconnected points I am addressing as they have happened into the main topic of this thread. No noise is intended, but apologize if that is deemed so.

I just finished reading The Fifth Sacred Thing by Starhaw last night. I was a book I first read in high school over a decade ago and just loved it. It seemed relevant then, but maybe even more so now. It is written as a fictional futuristic novel where an apocalypse has happened and the world is in turmoil in the aftermath. A small enclave in San Fransisco rebelled against the NWO type faction and developed a community that operates in respect of Nature. It is a mystical and magical community that seems to blend science of mysticism in their respect for and working in harmony with Nature. It was an amazing book for expanding thought processes and looking at our world from a theoretical possibility.

One of the main things that got reignited in me as I read was my outlook, my Vision. I always felt like I have been incomplete since high school and the good old days of my young spirituality. I tried tying it to my coming out or having to grow up and tackle the real world after high school, loosing my innocence of youth and dealing with the harsh realities of the adult world ( i have made reference to that in a couple of posts over the years). I tried gaining knowledge and understanding as years went by which eventually lead me to this amazing group here. I have tried to re-engage in old practices of my youth to see if that would help as well. I have realized that upon reflection, i have been doing all these actions mechanically. Read and learn new things and try and apply. Dig up some of the old and integrate. I can see myself active out of certain centers. But when rereading this book, it opened up my spirit again, my Vision.

Its no wonder that I have felt so down and out while trying to reclaim some lost part of me, for no matter what past/present/new knowledge i acquired and tried to implement, it was a mechanical way of going about it. I started to look at this doom and gloom and apocalypse thing a little different. If its gonna happen, its gonna happen, but what about other possibilities? I was thinking about information theory and infinite possibilities for creation and the Universe, and the duality we have to battle with. I realized I was giving into the apocalypse scenario as the only probability, and closed myself off to other possibilities. As I mentioned my example with work earlier, i started to think about this apocalypse scenario. It seems a lot of us get caught up in it, and almost have an urge to call it upon us to get it over and done with, and let the new world begin. But what kind of signal is that sending out to the Universe? So I started to open up again to other possibilities. Just like how I wanted to change in my interaction on a personal work level, I wanted to change my outlook on the global level. I didnt want to send this Universe the signal I was done, let it end, hope for change. I want to have hope, not like some blind hope or faith people cling to for appeasement or disassociation from the horrors around us, but genuine hope, a Vision of possibilities of the unlimited creative potential the Universe. So to conclude for now, that is the new me at the moment. I want to be an instrument for the Universe, to hold to this Vision of possibilities and channel and anchor it here. Not to do it in a way to force change upon others. But to have hope, to give it the opportunity to grow and manifest. If we loose sight of the what could be and give in to the horrors around us, it almost seems like we are telling the Universe that this experiment is over, that we should pact our bags and go to sleep.

Thanks for taking the time to read and for all replies to come after. I do have a bunch of stuff i would like to expand on after rereading The Fifth Sacred Thing in another thread, and maybe some questions for us and the C's to discuss. This has taken a bit out of me, but I am glad to get it out there. Take care everyone, and I will try to keep the actively here up.

Bobby