Woolwich attack : UK soldier decapitated on street

[Mahael859]

Re: Woolwich attack : UK military decapitated on street

I think it's only natural to feel contempt Carlise, we are only human after all, and I think that it's good to feel that way since we have an idea of what should be normal and isnt, and what SHOULDN'T be normal, but is! The balance is, well what we do with that emotion, and working on ourselves here, learning etc is what helps us all.

Yeah. It's in dealing with the righteous anger, without going insane, where this forum is such a blessing. Det, EE, self work, and networking stops us from going under, and allows us to actually use the negative emotions for something good. It's a shame we can't just go shake people up a bit to wake them up, but then we're not here to save people, only to do what we can with respect to the Universe :).

I think it's a blessing as well.
I find the most helpful thing is to have a bigger frame for all those events.
This network helped me a lot into having a bigger picture about what is happening around and that gives me a sense of calm in this turmoils we are living in.
Think most people around get shocked because the news and media are playing Ping pong with their emotions, they don't have the time to assimilate a shock that suddenly another will appear.
Great that we have a place to connect the dots and remind ourself to stay vigilant and calm to watch the events unfolding

 

[marek760]

Re: Woolwich attack : UK military decapitated on street

Lords Call To Revive Internet Monitoring Bill After Woolwich Killing

Following the murder of a man in Woolwich yesterday, a number of Lords have called for the controversial Communications Data Bill that seeks to impose more Internet monitoring on UK citizens to be put back on the table.

The killing in Woolwich, allegedly carried out by two extremists, which the government said appears to be a terrorist attack, has drawn many extreme reactions. Former government ministers, including former Labour home secretary Lord John Reid, have called for more Internet monitoring in response, angering privacy campaigners.

Deputy prime minister Nick Clegg appeared to have stopped the bill, known to critics as Snoopers’ Charter, going through to Parliament. It proposed getting ISPs to record all customers’ communications data, which includes the who, when and where of interactions over the Internet and telephony, but not the content itself.

Internet monitoring ‘back on the agenda’

The bill also sought to store data on citizens’ website visits, all of which was seen by many as a massive intrusion on people’s privacy.

Now supporters of the bill want the government to consider getting it back on the agenda, even though it was not included in the Queen’s Speech earlier this month.

Lord Reid said in the past comms data was massively useful in tracking terrorist threats, but now police did not have enough power to get hold of Internet-based communications quickly.

“You will never find out whether you are right on this one until there is some huge tragedy that might have been averted if they had updated the communication appraisals that can be carried out at GCHQ,” he said, according to the Guardian.

Nick Pickles, director of the Big Brother Watch, said it was inappropriate for Lord Reid to be commenting on Snoopers’ Charter given his record in government.
“Lord Reid was one of those responsible for the knee-jerk decision to try and introduce powers for people to be detained for up to 90 days without trial by the last government, after the 7/7 attack,” Pickles told TechWeekEurope in an emailed statement.

“That should be a clear warning of the dangers of rushing forward policy changes when the nation is in shock and of those who seek to use the politics of fear.

“The current government made clear in the Queen’s Speech it will bring forward proposals to address the important issue of identifying who is using a particular internet address and they are right to do so.

“We face down terrorists by defending our values and traditions and acting proportionately, which is a balance current policy recognises.”

Lord Carlile, former independent reviewer of terror laws, said the Woolwich killing should lead to talk about reviving the communications data bill. “Lone wolves, even though they are always inevitably connected at least with Internet training, are very difficult to catch so we must give the authorities proportionate tools to catch them,” he said.

Lord West, the former security minister, told Sky News: “We need to know this information and I do think that the communications data bill which was due to come through and has been put on pause by the deputy prime minister, I think that’s a terrible mistake.”

 

[Ben]

Re: Woolwich attack : UK military decapitated on street

Although not enough is known about this yet, it definitely provides a huge amount of propoganda mileage for the ptb along the lines of 'problem, reaction, solution'. You can see it unfolding before your eyes on social media and news interviews "the government has to do something about this, it's just going to keep happening". Oh, they will. Throw in the emotive issue of the EDL (English Defence League) morons, and watch the manipulation continue.

Also, people like me who have legimate reasons not to support 'Help for Heroes' or cheer our forces on unquestioningly can be associated (by aforementioned morons) with the mindset of the men who committed this horrible act.

 

[aaronfransen]

Re: Woolwich attack : UK military decapitated on street

From a political standpoint, I almost wonder if this wasn't some attempt to intentionally lay the blame at the foot of Islam, to try to get folks "riled up". Because a populace upset about terrorism isn't thinking about the budget, or food prices, or how much they're being raped by the PTB.

From a personal standpoint, decapitation is about the most horrific thing I can imagine. It's shocking, and my money is on that being the point. A plane crashing into a building ended up being too removed to have emotional impact, but lopping someone's head off? That's personal.

To quote a line from one of my favourite movies (Titan AE), "I weep for the species".

 

[Rich]

Re: Woolwich attack : UK military decapitated on street

From a political standpoint, I almost wonder if this wasn't some attempt to intentionally lay the blame at the foot of Islam, to try to get folks "riled up". B

Undoubtedly. A good indication is how the video clip was edited for media broadcast:

First video:

"There are many, many ayah throughout the Koran [referring to religious
verses] that says we must fight them as they fight us, an eye for an eye
and a tooth for a tooth. I apologize that women had to witness this
today but in our land women have to see the same. You people will never
be safe. Remove your government, they don’t care about you."


Second video:

"You think David Cameron will get stuck in the street, when we start busting our guns?
you think your politicians are gonna die? not it's gonna be the average like you, and your children.
so get rid of them. tell them to bring our troops back, so you can all live in peace.."

_http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=64f_1369272177

 

[RedFox]

Re: Woolwich attack : UK military decapitated on street

Yeah, it stinks to me of being an emotional hook of the same 'flavour' as the boston boming (though maybe not as vast a scale, but perhaps like a tester for something in the future?). The esteem to which soldiers are held up to here actually makes me feel a bit sick, especially when its in the name of 'fighting for our country'. Ehhhh yeh right, lets invade another country who hasn't bothered us to fight 'terrorism'. It's really brainwashed quite a majority of people in the UK

Testing reminds me of....

Session Date: December 21st 2012

Laura, Ark, Belibaste, Perceval, Andromeda, PoB, Ailen, Data, Thorbiorn, Mr. Scott, Kniall, Bubbles

Q: (L) Hello. Long time no Cs! It's been a long time, hasn't it? How long has been, since Spring? (Perceval) July.

A: Hikes January. Cassiopaea here!

Q: (L) What does "hikes January" mean? (Perceval) Maybe "yikes January"!

A: Prices.

Q: (Perceval) Price hikes. (L) Is that going to be a really significant issue?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Why?

A: Food scarcity becomes more obvious, no longer able to cover it up.

Q: (L) Have they been covering up already existing food scarcity?

A: Oh yes!

Q: (L) Okay. Anything further going along that line?

A: Following food issues, always sickness.

Q: (Andromeda) Sickness like the plague?

A: Soon enough.

Q: (L) Well, anything further along that line before we divert off onto questions which we have?

A: Today was not the end of the world in case you didn't notice, however an "end" of sorts will certainly come as we have been suggesting for many years. Time is never definite. Things also happen in steps and stages. The major steps include things like assassinations that are accepted by the masses. When such is not objected to, then the next stage is prepared.

So perhaps all of these recent 'terrorist attacks' are testing to see if they can take the major steps. That would be the final test it would seem - sorting the wheat from the chaff perhaps?
The way things are Assad would be a likely target for this sort of assassination.

 

[Windmill knight]

Re: Woolwich attack : UK military decapitated on street

So the video was edited to make the hands of the guy look bloody when they weren't and the juciest parts of the guy's speech were selected for impact. Plus, the story was probably spiced-up with claims about machetes and a beheading, when that wasn't the case. This proves what we already know about the event being used for war-on-terror propaganda. But that doesn't mean that an actual murder did not take place and it was all staged, as some are claiming out there.

At the moment my hypothesis is that the soldier was run down by the car - hard enough to knock him unconscious or even kill him - and he might or might have not been stabbed later (what for if he was dead already?). That would explain why there was little to no blood, although the media tried to make a point that there was lots of it. Then, the perpetrator made some references to Islam that were recorded by someone with a smart phone, because he was either brainwashed, greenbaumed or an idiot. (They also said he was shouting "Allah Ukbar" but I think that's also part of the spicing-up, as I haven't seen a video of that.) The authorities and the media saw a great opportunity to remind people "why they need us" and did what they always do with the facts: twist them for their own purposes. Now a murder, as there are many on a daily basis which are handled through the regular channels, has become an act of 'terrorism' that will of course require drastic measures concerning us all.

 

[Tigersoap]

Re: Woolwich attack : UK military decapitated on street

An interesting thing for me was that one of the killer was supposedly in contact with our own extremist muslim psy-op creation called Sharia4Belgium.

In french :

_http://www.lesoir.be/248216/article/actualite/monde/2013-05-24/un-des-tueurs-du-soldat-londonien-des-liens-avec-belgique

It might not even be true at all but perhaps it is.
Either way, I think it would just show how these groups are created and manipulated just for the purpose of building up a constant threat that must be stopped by more restriction & surveillance on the general population.

 

[SMM]

Re: Woolwich attack : UK military decapitated on street

Although not enough is known about this yet, it definitely provides a huge amount of propoganda mileage for the ptb along the lines of 'problem, reaction, solution'. You can see it unfolding before your eyes on social media and news interviews "the government has to do something about this, it's just going to keep happening". Oh, they will. Throw in the emotive issue of the EDL (English Defence League) morons, and watch the manipulation continue.

Also, people like me who have legimate reasons not to support 'Help for Heroes' or cheer our forces on unquestioningly can be associated (by aforementioned morons) with the mindset of the men who committed this horrible act.

Yes, association with the mindset of the men who committed this horrible act is an easy number to pull out of the hat.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/cameron-crack-down-preachers-hate-225830785.html#cT2JkfC

 

[Cosmos]

Re: Woolwich attack : UK military decapitated on street

So the video was edited to make the hands of the guy look bloody when they weren't and the juciest parts of the guy's speech were selected for impact. Plus, the story was probably spiced-up with claims about machetes and a beheading, when that wasn't the case. This proves what we already know about the event being used for war-on-terror propaganda. But that doesn't mean that an actual murder did not take place and it was all staged, as some are claiming out there.

"So the video was edited to make the hands of the guy look bloody when they weren't..."

Where do you got that information? I can't seem to find a reference or source of that or something that proofs it...

"Plus, the story was probably spiced-up with claims about machetes and a beheading, when that wasn't the case."

How did you come to that conclusion?

In the last link Pob provided, we can see that a guy on twitter talked about the "beheading" (or so it seems) but was that beheading really part of the official story at the beginning? I can't find a official source that would suggest that this piece was actually part of initial reporting...

And where did any official media reported that machetes were used?

Or did some media use what that guy tweeted on twitter?

From the video it seems it was a knive and a cleaver...

 

[Graalsword]

Re: Woolwich attack : UK military decapitated on street

"So the video was edited to make the hands of the guy look bloody when they weren't..."

Where do you got that information? I can't seem to find a reference or source of that or something that proofs it...

"Plus, the story was probably spiced-up with claims about machetes and a beheading, when that wasn't the case."

How did you come to that conclusion?

When watching the video I thought the same as Windmill knight regarding the guy's hands. It looks as though he had no blood but a special effect created, the red color of his hands look very strange, like imposed artificially on them with computer editing. Even, when he moves the hands, the red coloring sometimes goes off them.

 

[Mal7]

Re: Woolwich attack : UK military decapitated on street

So the video was edited to make the hands of the guy look bloody when they weren't and the juciest parts of the guy's speech were selected for impact. Plus, the story was probably spiced-up with claims about machetes and a beheading, when that wasn't the case. This proves what we already know about the event being used for war-on-terror propaganda. But that doesn't mean that an actual murder did not take place and it was all staged, as some are claiming out there.

"So the video was edited to make the hands of the guy look bloody when they weren't..."

Where do you got that information? I can't seem to find a reference or source of that or something that proofs it...

"Plus, the story was probably spiced-up with claims about machetes and a beheading, when that wasn't the case."

How did you come to that conclusion?

In the last link Pob provided, we can see that a guy on twitter talked about the "beheading" (or so it seems) but was that beheading really part of the official story at the beginning? I can't find a official source that would suggest that this piece was actually part of initial reporting...

And where did any official media reported that machetes were used?

I am not sure what you mean by "official media", do you mean police reports? As far as the mainstream media go, I know the BBC reported it as a machete attack, on their televised world news and on the internet here:

_http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22632003

Likewise with regard to the beheading, I am not sure what is in the official media, but in the media in general, it has been widely reported as variously a beheading or a 'beheading' in quotes. For example, Con Coughlin, Defence Editor of 'The Telegraph' writes:

The horrific killing in Woolwich, where a man believed to be a soldier based at the nearby Woolwich barracks was beheaded by two machete-wielding assailants, has all the hallmarks of an al-Qaeda attack.

At the time of writing we are still awaiting confirmation from security officials about the precise nature of the incident. But having just watched some ITV footage, which shows a man with bloodied hands who is carrying a machete saying directly into the camera "We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you", it seems pretty clear to me what has happened.

- http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/concoughlin/100218238/the-woolwich-beheading-is-straight-out-of-al-qaedas-terror-manual/

Since the victim's head does not seem to have been separated from his body, it is as best an attempted beheading rather than a beheading. Whether it was even an attempted beheading, rather than 'merely' cutting someone's throat or stabbing their neck I don't know, I guess that would have to be determined by the extent of the injuries, the reports of witnesses, or knowing what the intentions of the assailants were.

[It seems to me there are two parallel inquiries or concerns here:
1. What actually happened?
and
2. What is being made of this event by the mainstream media?]

 

[Joe]

Re: Woolwich attack : UK military decapitated on street

Found an interesting video that raises questions about the authenticity of the attack and it being staged actors.

Side by Side of London Machete Terrorist Before/After BLOOD WAS ADDED _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fOtHT_jD7I&feature=youtu.be

That video doesn't raise any questions, it's some guy making stuff up about there being no blood on his hands when there clearly is. The guy's hands are orange in the second video, but so are the road lines and the road sign, all of which appear to have had a filter applied to make the orange rather than red. Could have been the media trying to be "sensitive" to the public's squeamishness, or, someone deliberately trying to promote the ridiculous "actors" theory, that is specifically designed to make anyone trying to look seriously at who is behind these attacks look ridiculous.

 

[Mal7]

Re: Woolwich attack : UK military decapitated on street

[. . .] and he might or might have not been stabbed later (what for if he was dead already?) [ . . .]

There have been a number of cases of 'frenzied' murders where victims have been stabbed numerous times, far more than necessary to kill them.

There was one in Dunedin, New Zealand where Clayton Weatherston, a tutor in the Commerce Department at the University of Otago, stabbed his ex-girlfriend 216 times, including after she was already dead. [_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry5MoiSl-0E]

[It is going off topic here, but Clayton Weatherston shocked the New Zealand public in his televised court appearances with his extreme narcissism and lack of remorse for the victim. You can search YouTube for "Clayton Weatherston" for more information on that case. One theory is that psychiatric drugs such as the Prozac family might be a factor in such frenzied attacks, particularly after sudden changes of dosage. I don't have a reference, but could probably track one down. My father, a retired psychiatrist, has some interest in this subject.]

Anyway, in the Woolwich case, the lack of much blood on the victim's body seems to indicate it wasn't one of these frenzied attacks where a victim is stabbed multiple dozens of times. When I first watched the killer's rant, he struck me as being unusually calm and composed, given the circumstances.

 

[Cosmos]

Re: Woolwich attack : UK military decapitated on street

Found an interesting video that raises questions about the authenticity of the attack and it being staged actors.

Side by Side of London Machete Terrorist Before/After BLOOD WAS ADDED _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fOtHT_jD7I&feature=youtu.be

That video doesn't raise any questions, it's some guy making stuff up about there being no blood on his hands when there clearly is. The guy's hands are orange in the second video, but so are the road lines and the road sign, all of which appear to have had a filter applied to make the orange rather than red. Could have been the media trying to be "sensitive" to the public's squeamishness, or, someone deliberately trying to promote the ridiculous "actors" theory, that is specifically designed to make anyone trying to look seriously at who is behind these attacks look ridiculous.

Well when you look at this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc62gkSN8W0&bpctr=1369574594

There seems to be a definite possibility that somebody has spiced up the original video so that the hands, knive and cleaver look more bloody, more red...
But even in this video, I think we can clearly see a pretty bloody cleaver at 00:13 - 00:14...

And the hands look like I would actually suspect a black mans hand insides, would look like if they were bloody...

I guess the same "actors" and "all fake" planted theme is already in motion in this case again...
It isn't a suprise either, because whoever is inventing those things seems to be pretty busy recently to direct the attention of the alternative community into that nonsense on almost every "terrorist" attack recently.

They are really busy to discredit all alternative theories through exactly those things. And unfortunately it seems to work...
Again I think it is designed to distract and to discredit and make all people from the alternative look crazy and even heartless to the public...