Worried for my mom.

[Andrian]

I hope that everything will be ok with you and your mom Harold,i really do, i personally don't have even much experience praying but when i pray i try to pray with heart and soul to DCM and to six and 4-th density sto brothers and sisters and i sincerily can say that i have to improve more my prayers but like C's have said prayers indeed are protecting and helping (sincerely,from heart in soul to right direction) ,i received a lot of help and protection which i'm grateful.Just be honest,open minded ,sincere when you pray and off course carrying for your mom like you do is very,very important .I wish you well ,to your mom and your family .

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

Hi Harold,

You have been given very good advice (members of this forum tend to do that :D ).
FWIW, I second what has been said about non-anticipation and acceptance of what is.
Being there for her, keeping her in your thoughts and prayers, practicing EE, are all very good advice IMO. And of course, keep us posted!

I will keep you and your mum in my thoughts and prayers as well.

 

[Buddy]

I agree with Maat – just keep it simple and ask the DCM for that which is best for your mother, without anticipation.

You could also, when reciting the POTS to yourself, mentally ask for help to understand what you can do best for your mother, and how to act on that knowledge.

Best wishes to you and your mom!

I'll go along with that. Also, trust that the Universe knows what it is doing, all is as it should be - whatever that is.

I agree with everyone else. For me, one of the hardest parts of any prayer or heart-felt pleading - even to Universe - is the ending where you must express the equivalent of: "...nevertheless, THY Will be done". It's very appropriately humbling and also seems to serve as a request for strength to accept whatever happens as 'lawful' on Universe's own terms.

Again the thought of not having pain after this operation is giving her allot of joy. I really hope it goes well. She puts allot of faith in the doctors.... I do not.

I see that it is what she puts faith in that's important. Instead of praying the doctors are right, try to bolster her faith; try to pray that her faith in them helps her to recover well.

Harold, you and your Mom will be in my thoughts and prayers too.

 

[Harold]

I feel a little guilty, I went to bed without doing POTS or anything last night. I have been having trouble with doing it daily lately. Sharing here and the feedback is giving me more focus... I will do it today for sure. Thank-you again.

You may like to consider giving up 'self-punishing' guilt in favour of honest regret, and remaining in the present moment. What has gone is gone; get back to the now.

Honest regret..... I'd like to add sincere to that if I may Prodigal Son. I regret arguing with my folks. I regret many of my behaviors of the past. Today I don't do these things, although not perfect at all, I don't go over to my folks home with the intent of 'educating them'. I go over, watch the NFL, the Conservative Channel, Dancing With the Stars(which I enjoy sharing with my folks). Not much is said amongst us, talk of weather, family goings on etc. One thing I really enjoy sharing with mom is her stories from my baba(grandma) and just stories of her life. I like her stories, she is a good story teller. I do learn allot from her in this way. I get some real nuggets of wisdom from her in this way. Also I like to play cards with them, although we dont do it much anymore. Our relations over the years has been a challenge to say the least, we are polar opposites in many ways but the effort is there to make the best of it.

One story my mom enjoys to tell is how she and her sisters used to follow the coal truck and pick up any little pieces of coal that may have fallen off the buggy. They would bring it home to help with heating the house a little.

Another one she likes to tell is how when she went to my dads town for the first time to meet his family, my dads sister and her husband hid a skeleton in her bed, he was a pre med student. She was alone in her room... no my dads sister was in the room with her talking, my mom had never un-dressed in front of someone she does not know really. So instead she went to prepare the bed. How she tells of all the screaming and hoopla, my fathers father and mother freaking out on my dads sister and her husband who thought it was a hoot!

Anyways, I am very grateful to my folks for adopting me, giving me a stable home in many ways. As a kid I was spoiled, I always got lots of presents at christmas, my mom always made sure to give me birthday and christmas gifts as my bday is just after christmas. They took me to florida a couple times including Disney World.... which for a kid is the Holy Grail of vacations. I went to summer camps etc. They rented a cottage when we were kids for several years etc. They let me run off to become a sailor at like 14? 15? Years of age? When I bought my first house, they gave me some cash to help with that and so fourth. My dad always came home after work at the same time.... family was everything. At 16 when on shore leave, I passed out in my dads car while driving partly due to some severe 'Land Sickness'.... they forgave me and gave me the car and bought a new one. As a adult they have helped me financially, they always try to give me food etc.

To live in the now properly, I think it is important to see the past for what is was. Not perfect, but perfect just the way it was. For them, I was not an easy lad to raise.

Good luck, Harold. Hope your mom gets better soon.

Thank-you Cassandra.

You may like to use the act of lying down in bed as the trigger to start reciting PotS - it works wonders for me. Relaxing and putting me straight to sleep (sometimes even before I finish a set number of repetitions). :)
This may help, or not.

I did POTS a couple times last night, I think I fell asleep before I finished the prayer and kept trying to start it all over again, so thanx for the support. I just took a break and recited POTS 3 times right now.

Hang in there Harold. I know pretty well how you feel. My mom DID get on the diet, but her attitude is very similar to yours, still. Fear, buying into propaganda, worry on levels unimaginable.

Like you said, we need to accept them as they are, let them learn their own lessons, and make the love we feel for the the most helpful possible and least hurtful in any way. It's a work in progress, as are we, always improving, but still a ways to go. What you wrote touched me a lot and resonates in many ways. Best wishes to you, your mom and the whole family.

Thank-you SeekinTruth. My mom has tried many new things I have suggested, or she has followed my actions, like daily meditation and readings over the years. Prayer and so fourth. This thread is not for getting on my moms case, so I will leave my ideas of what is really going on in reality... I am aware to stuff I think but am not going to bring it up... I want to have healing thoughts and actions. Albeit I dont know what is best for her, I'll trust my gut and use my head to figure it all out, so much is going on in my head regarding her situation, I dont want to project any outcomes.

As for making the love I feel to be most helpful and least hurtful, that is what I am working on and have been for many years. My personal psycological makeup gets in the way at times but I am working on it still. It is a work in progress. EE for me is the key to it all... I dont know why, but the results keep me going.

I feel a little guilty, I went to bed without doing POTS or anything last night. I have been having trouble with doing it daily lately. Sharing here and the feedback is giving me more focus... I will do it today for sure. Thank-you again.

You may like to consider giving up 'self-punishing' guilt in favour of honest regret, and remaining in the present moment. What has gone is gone; get back to the now.

You may like to use the act of lying down in bed as the trigger to start reciting PotS - it works wonders for me. Relaxing and putting me straight to sleep (sometimes even before I finish a set number of repetitions). :)

This may help, or not.

Very helpful.... thank-you. I just really appreciate the contact, the feeling that I am cared about here, that my mom is important. I am scared and sad a little and just want things to go well for her.

I have been playing the EE cd at night, but stopped. Thanx for the reminder.

Prodigal Son said exactly the same thing I was going to say. I too use the act of lying down in bed to trigger some pipe breathing followed by mental recitations of POTS as I fall asleep. It's a very powerful and cumulative method of meditation. Sometimes, I think, it just takes a little push to get a new beneficial routine started, perhaps just by starting POTS without the breathing to begin with. That's what I did, and added pipe breathing a bit later. Once the routine settles into your motor centre it becomes an easy and automatic thing. Another trick is not to think about it at all during the day. Don't anticipate it, just lie down in bed, breathe and recite the POTS while you fall asleep. Hope this helps.

Yes Endymion, I agree that it does take a little push to get a new routine started.... thank-you for that gentle lovely push.

So here is a question regarding prayer.... mental recitation? I have a belief that verbal recitation is the way to go. I either imagine or I see the waves of what is said out loud as stronger and more robust? Do you think this is a false belief? This is one of the ways I beat up on myself for not getting it perfect and sometimes I see I just dont give the same effort if I cant get it 'perfect'. Is this thinking flawed? I dont know. I see that I have this perfectionism that gets in the way allot, or maybe it is just an excuse to not do beneficial stuff. I grab onto an idea and wont let go of it, I am stubborn in that way. I can be a little too rigid about my beliefs/knowledge etc. Being more flexible is something I have grown into since joining the forum. My mind has been fairly open over the years but it is a work in progress. I really accept others views more readily and let them have their views and find that weather they are accurate or not in an objective way that all views .... can help to see reality. It is just how one takes them to heart.... or not.

A big problem with perfectionism is it can render you to do nothing if you cant get it perfect... this is a challenge for me. Then stuff like the dishes or house cleaning add up and then my house is a mess... (for example)

Endymion, I have an attitude about falling asleep while praying, I have guilt about it, I see this affects my routine... it was not until I went to EE class(for example) that I realised that I dont need to do every little part of the EE CD. It helped allot to see how the group does it. I can do pipe breathing without all the stretching for example.... this used to bog me down... everything had to be perfect.... yuk. Sounds like lots of anticipation there.

Thank-you for sharing, it does help.

I hope that everything will be ok with you and your mom Harold,i really do, i personally don't have even much experience praying but when i pray i try to pray with heart and soul to DCM and to six and 4-th density sto brothers and sisters and i sincerily can say that i have to improve more my prayers but like C's have said prayers indeed are protecting and helping (sincerely,from heart in soul to right direction) ,i received a lot of help and protection which i'm grateful.Just be honest,open minded ,sincere when you pray and off course carrying for your mom like you do is very,very important .I wish you well ,to your mom and your family .

Thank-you Andrian. I guess in the big picture.... all is well! I have guilt, mostly programming I think, about not caring for my family. It is hard to understand, I dont know what is going on in reality, no one in 3d really does, that is not the point of being here in 3d I think. So many programs to deal with, so much learning, I hope I am getting it. I try not to feed into the guilt programs but that has been a big part of my life programming, through EE I can see improvement... EE has been one the the very best forms of therapy I have ever seen. It is subtle and unexplainable, but the gifts are priceless. I dont question it...

Thank-you Adrian for your well wishes.

Hi Harold,

You have been given very good advice (members of this forum tend to do that :D ).
FWIW, I second what has been said about non-anticipation and acceptance of what is.
Being there for her, keeping her in your thoughts and prayers, practicing EE, are all very good advice IMO. And of course, keep us posted!

I will keep you and your mum in my thoughts and prayers as well.

Thank-you Mrs. Tigersoap. And yes good advice has been given. I really appreciate it. And all the best to you and Mr.Tigersoap in 2012. I will keep posting on my moms situation.

I agree with Maat – just keep it simple and ask the DCM for that which is best for your mother, without anticipation.

You could also, when reciting the POTS to yourself, mentally ask for help to understand what you can do best for your mother, and how to act on that knowledge.

Best wishes to you and your mom!

I'll go along with that. Also, trust that the Universe knows what it is doing, all is as it should be - whatever that is.

I agree with everyone else. For me, one of the hardest parts of any prayer or heart-felt pleading - even to Universe - is the ending where you must express the equivalent of: "...nevertheless, THY Will be done". It's very appropriately humbling and also seems to serve as a request for strength to accept whatever happens as 'lawful' on Universe's own terms.

Again the thought of not having pain after this operation is giving her allot of joy. I really hope it goes well. She puts allot of faith in the doctors.... I do not.

I see that it is what she puts faith in that's important. Instead of praying the doctors are right, try to bolster her faith; try to pray that her faith in them helps her to recover well.

Harold, you and your Mom will be in my thoughts and prayers too.

Thank-you Buddy... formerly BUD? yes? 'Thy will be done'. Thank-you for reintroducing this saying to me. For a good 20 years this was a big part of my prayer. Unfortunatley I threw out the baby with the bath water when I found this forum. I said this saying last night I think... I am being open minded... I have tied this saying/prayer with monotheism and my old belief system, I am giving it a try again...

I will bolster her faith in the doctors.... I will leave my preconceptions behind. After all doctors have done a few great things for me... there is the big picture and then the little picture... not to be confused? This is a little picture situation and I should not let my big picture knowledge get in the way.

Again, thank-you Buddy for taking the time in making your post.

All the best to everyone in the coming year!

 

[Buddy]

Thank-you Buddy... formerly BUD? yes?

You're welcome and yes indeedy!

I have tied this saying/prayer with monotheism and my old belief system,

That's understandable. Monotheism, monism, dualism...are mostly just crap words to me now. Christianity, as one example, kind of lost it a long time ago due to wrestling with its own intellectual idols which, ironically, were seemingly created as a result of a Jewish mission to wipe out the more primitive "idols", which, IMO, were actually nothing of the kind!

I am giving it a try again..

Of course you can modify as needed if it conflicts at a deep level.

I will bolster her faith in the doctors.... I will leave my preconceptions behind.

I would advise to be prepared to sacrifice in case more than that is needed. I feel like when I open a communication channel to Universe, higher self, self in the future, or whatever, that my whole self is online so to speak, because All functions as a system. I don't ask for much and I hope that I never ask for anything I'm not ready to pay for, so the question really becomes how badly do you want whatever-it-is? Don't you just hate it when someone comes to you with a 'need' and expects you to use your own resources and do all the work? :D

After all doctors have done a few great things for me... there is the big picture and then the little picture... not to be confused? This is a little picture situation and I should not let my big picture knowledge get in the way.

Hopefully your pictures are integrated with reality? One way I describe my big picture vs little picture is to never knowingly hold any conflict. They seem to be mostly self-similar copies of each other, only on different scales and with different contexts highlighted, so to speak. As above, so below and all that. If there is conflict, look for a wider perspective that includes everything you have so far as special-case representations of an even bigger picture that holds a promise of even greater knowledge, options and possibilities!

All the best to everyone in the coming year!

Thanks! And as an aside: unlike cults, a genuine community is one united by shared positive, creative goals, as opposed to one united only by shared fears and neuroses. Occasionally look around you and ask yourself honestly, which do you participate in?

We're here for you. Pay this energy forward to Mom! Best to you both!

 

[Psalehesost]

So here is a question regarding prayer.... mental recitation? I have a belief that verbal recitation is the way to go. I either imagine or I see the waves of what is said out loud as stronger and more robust? Do you think this is a false belief? This is one of the ways I beat up on myself for not getting it perfect and sometimes I see I just dont give the same effort if I cant get it 'perfect'. Is this thinking flawed? I dont know. I see that I have this perfectionism that gets in the way allot, or maybe it is just an excuse to not do beneficial stuff. I grab onto an idea and wont let go of it, I am stubborn in that way. I can be a little too rigid about my beliefs/knowledge etc. Being more flexible is something I have grown into since joining the forum. My mind has been fairly open over the years but it is a work in progress. I really accept others views more readily and let them have their views and find that weather they are accurate or not in an objective way that all views .... can help to see reality. It is just how one takes them to heart.... or not.

A big problem with perfectionism is it can render you to do nothing if you cant get it perfect... this is a challenge for me. Then stuff like the dishes or house cleaning add up and then my house is a mess... (for example)

Endymion, I have an attitude about falling asleep while praying, I have guilt about it, I see this affects my routine... it was not until I went to EE class(for example) that I realised that I dont need to do every little part of the EE CD. It helped allot to see how the group does it. I can do pipe breathing without all the stretching for example.... this used to bog me down... everything had to be perfect.... yuk. Sounds like lots of anticipation there.

Perhaps you think of prayer as a way of communicating with something outside of yourself? If so, reconsidering that might help.

Gurdjieff and Ouspensky point out in ISOTM - in some comments that are really just common sense - that what most people do when they pray is to expect the words in themselves (or the repetition of the words) to somehow magically change things - but if you think of prayer as a way of communicating with yourself, or with a deeper self you are not yet aware of but which exists, then you'll see that how you recite something is not so relevant - what matters is the inner impressions you make, your thought and feeling - the way they work and reach through your being, even beyond what you can see.

 

[Laura]

The operation is scheduled for 2 HOURS!!! That blows me away too, but I have not expressed this to my folks.

While I understand your concern, just want to point out that a two hour surgery is nothing. It took them five hours to do the work on my shoulder... and they weren't replacing anything, just blasting out all the calcium with lasers.

All things considered, a hip replacement is not that big a deal these days. I've known some VERY old folks who had it done and were up and about rather quickly.

I believe that even Queen Elizabeth has had joint replacement and she's still hopping about.

Yes, there is ALWAYS risk with surgery - not to dismiss that - but here is where doctors are doing what they do best and it is rare for it to go wrong.

 

[mada85]

Yes Endymion, I agree that it does take a little push to get a new routine started.... thank-you for that gentle lovely push.

You're welcome! :grin:

So here is a question regarding prayer.... mental recitation? I have a belief that verbal recitation is the way to go. I either imagine or I see the waves of what is said out loud as stronger and more robust? Do you think this is a false belief? This is one of the ways I beat up on myself for not getting it perfect and sometimes I see I just dont give the same effort if I cant get it 'perfect'. Is this thinking flawed? I dont know. I see that I have this perfectionism that gets in the way allot, or maybe it is just an excuse to not do beneficial stuff. I grab onto an idea and wont let go of it, I am stubborn in that way. I can be a little too rigid about my beliefs/knowledge etc. Being more flexible is something I have grown into since joining the forum. My mind has been fairly open over the years but it is a work in progress. I really accept others views more readily and let them have their views and find that weather they are accurate or not in an objective way that all views .... can help to see reality. It is just how one takes them to heart.... or not.

A big problem with perfectionism is it can render you to do nothing if you cant get it perfect... this is a challenge for me. Then stuff like the dishes or house cleaning add up and then my house is a mess... (for example)

Perhaps you could change your attitude from one of desiring perfection, and thus being afraid to make mistakes, to one of experimentation?

For example, you could say to yourself: 'OK. For one month I'll recite the POTS mentally before sleeping. I'll observe the results and decide whether or how to continue at the end of that month.'

I think also (having a strong perfectionist and fear of mistakes element in my own personality) that you would need to talk to your inner child part, as it is usually this part that is frozen by the fear of making a mistake, and stepping out of its comfort zone can be quite scary. You need to (metaphorically) hold its hand and explain that things will be OK, and if the experiment doesn't work out, or you're not happy with the results, you and he can always go back to the way things were. Taking small steps, though, is really important. That way you can deal with small crises if they arise, rather than trying to make a giant leap and setting yourself up for failure.

Endymion, I have an attitude about falling asleep while praying, I have guilt about it, I see this affects my routine... it was not until I went to EE class(for example) that I realised that I dont need to do every little part of the EE CD. It helped allot to see how the group does it. I can do pipe breathing without all the stretching for example.... this used to bog me down... everything had to be perfect.... yuk. Sounds like lots of anticipation there.

My understanding is that when we fall asleep while reciting the POTS, it goes more deeply into the unconscious (or the adaptive unconscious, as Timothy Wilson would say) and over time it becomes a real part of us and works from the inside out, so to say. I have found that doing this is remarkably effective and can be a real life-changer.

Ultimately, though, I think the thing is to find the way of working with the POTS that is the most comfortable and productive for you.

All things considered, a hip replacement is not that big a deal these days. I've known some VERY old folks who had it done and were up and about rather quickly.

I believe that even Queen Elizabeth has had joint replacement and she's still hopping about.

Yes, there is ALWAYS risk with surgery - not to dismiss that - but here is where doctors are doing what they do best and it is rare for it to go wrong.

And to echo Laura's post, I also know several older people who have had hip and knee replacements and they are all really happy with the outcome. One fellow I know has had both hips and both knees replaced! And he is happy that he can now get about, do some gardening, and so on. And as Laura says, western doctors are incredibly advanced with surgical procedures, in fact they excel in that area.

 

[nobodyslave]

Hoping all goes well with the operation Harold. My thoughts are with you and your Mum. X

 

[Laura]

Harold, you also would benefit by reading the "Redirect" thread and "The Adaptive Unconscious" thread.

 

[Harold]

Thank-you Buddy... formerly BUD? yes?

You're welcome and yes indeedy!

I had a real reason for asking that question, but now cant remember what it was. Anyways ... please excuse the noise.

I have tied this saying/prayer with monotheism and my old belief system,

That's understandable. Monotheism, monism, dualism...are mostly just crap words to me now. Christianity, as one example, kind of lost it a long time ago due to wrestling with its own intellectual idols which, ironically, were seemingly created as a result of a Jewish mission to wipe out the more primitive "idols", which, IMO, were actually nothing of the kind!

I'm getting over it. I just felt I needed a fresh start, clean slate so-to-speak. I think every word we say, everything we do is a prayer in a way. I am a living testament to my beliefs. If I don't have a solid footing, to built a foundation of real knowledge I cannot build upon that. IMO, FWIW. Know thy self comes to mind here.

I am giving it a try again..

Of course you can modify as needed if it conflicts at a deep level.

This ties in with my old ideas. That some big ol god with a capital 'G' is the one I am praying to. This thread alone has opened my eye's even more so as I am so much more open to the fact that I am praying to myself... hope this makes sense. hope I got it right. I kind of see that I have to communicate with the higher me and through this connection, the higher me is a communication link up with the universe. If I do not have a conscious or maybe even unconscious contact with my higher self, I cannot have a higher contact with my other brothers and sisters in higher realms. Is this the path to higher consciousness? I am still grasping the concept of what real prayer is all about?.... it is still a little confusing for me. All I can say is that I do see/feel a subtle difference and am building confidence in my prayer's. In general I pray way more than your average person.

I will bolster her faith in the doctors.... I will leave my preconceptions behind.

I would advise to be prepared to sacrifice in case more than that is needed. I feel like when I open a communication channel to Universe, higher self, self in the future, or whatever, that my whole self is online so to speak, because All functions as a system. I don't ask for much and I hope that I never ask for anything I'm not ready to pay for, so the question really becomes how badly do you want whatever-it-is? Don't you just hate it when someone comes to you with a 'need' and expects you to use your own resources and do all the work? :D

I am not sure I am getting your point here Buddy. I guess you mean simply put...'watch what we pray for?' Like I said, I look at every action and word as prayer in a way. This ties into being able to go over my actions on a daily basis. Something I strive to do allot. And yes I do consider what I pray for and 'how' I pray/ask for it. Still I find that my behavior is a big piece of the puzzle. I am a work in progress. In my mothers situation, I think I should get out of the way, ask the universe what is best for her and this situation and that is all. If I can provide a little comfort, that is all I could really want. Or as long as she gets some comfort, I am happy. But again what does my happiness matter in this situation? I think my destiny in her situation is for me to learn about our karmic lessons together and to learn and make the best of it for all involved. Then again I really dont know do I? I am watching it all for now and trying to stay calm. The dynamic's of my family also leave me wondering just what is going on. I will tread carefully. I hope this makes sense.

After all doctors have done a few great things for me... there is the big picture and then the little picture... not to be confused? This is a little picture situation and I should not let my big picture knowledge get in the way.

Hopefully your pictures are integrated with reality? One way I describe my big picture vs little picture is to never knowingly hold any conflict. They seem to be mostly self-similar copies of each other, only on different scales and with different contexts highlighted, so to speak. As above, so below and all that. If there is conflict, look for a wider perspective that includes everything you have so far as special-case representations of an even bigger picture that holds a promise of even greater knowledge, options and possibilities!

Well, I do have an issue with this integration between the 2. I guess the principle's that apply to the big picture also apply to the little picture? Laws of attraction and so fourth? In general I do think of what is best for the universe in a way when I 'act', speak etc. I am having a little difficulty explaining this, let alone understanding it. As it is very challenging to do at all times. But is that possibly what you mean? I define little picture as my personal life and all those connected to it. The big picture is everything outside of that. The 2 operate under the same rules more or less. This is my simple explanation of it. These rules are what connects the 2. This is the integration. In the big picture, can 2 objects occupy the same space at the same time? In the little picture we are all 1? I don't have the answers or even know if I am following you... so let me know.

All the best to everyone in the coming year!

Thanks! And as an aside: unlike cults, a genuine community is one united by shared positive, creative goals, as opposed to one united only by shared fears and neuroses. Occasionally look around you and ask yourself honestly, which do you participate in?

Lately I have been re-reading the 'C's transcripts, and for me I am getting out of it to continue to focus on diet, EE and networking. It can be very easy to participate in fear and neuroses. It is all around. When I do there is allot of acceptance from those who participate in it also and the feeding begins for sure. I have had allot of therapy over the years, I can identify some of these behaviors and fear and neurotic situations and can avoid them when I am paying attention. I have a way to go at identifying more, it is like a onion, one layer at a time.

We're here for you. Pay this energy forward to Mom! Best to you both!

Thank-you. My mother is in good spirits and is looking forward to getting her new hip... what more can I ask for.

So here is a question regarding prayer.... mental recitation? I have a belief that verbal recitation is the way to go. I either imagine or I see the waves of what is said out loud as stronger and more robust? Do you think this is a false belief? This is one of the ways I beat up on myself for not getting it perfect and sometimes I see I just dont give the same effort if I cant get it 'perfect'. Is this thinking flawed? I dont know. I see that I have this perfectionism that gets in the way allot, or maybe it is just an excuse to not do beneficial stuff. I grab onto an idea and wont let go of it, I am stubborn in that way. I can be a little too rigid about my beliefs/knowledge etc. Being more flexible is something I have grown into since joining the forum. My mind has been fairly open over the years but it is a work in progress. I really accept others views more readily and let them have their views and find that weather they are accurate or not in an objective way that all views .... can help to see reality. It is just how one takes them to heart.... or not.

A big problem with perfectionism is it can render you to do nothing if you cant get it perfect... this is a challenge for me. Then stuff like the dishes or house cleaning add up and then my house is a mess... (for example)

Endymion, I have an attitude about falling asleep while praying, I have guilt about it, I see this affects my routine... it was not until I went to EE class(for example) that I realised that I dont need to do every little part of the EE CD. It helped allot to see how the group does it. I can do pipe breathing without all the stretching for example.... this used to bog me down... everything had to be perfect.... yuk. Sounds like lots of anticipation there.

Perhaps you think of prayer as a way of communicating with something outside of yourself? If so, reconsidering that might help.

Gurdjieff and Ouspensky point out in ISOTM - in some comments that are really just common sense - that what most people do when they pray is to expect the words in themselves (or the repetition of the words) to somehow magically change things - but if you think of prayer as a way of communicating with yourself, or with a deeper self you are not yet aware of but which exists, then you'll see that how you recite something is not so relevant - what matters is the inner impressions you make, your thought and feeling - the way they work and reach through your being, even beyond what you can see.

This has really been on my mind for a couple days now Psalehesost... Who do I think I'm praying to? and Who AM I praying to? Thank-you for asking that question, I really think it has opened my mind to my limits programmed into me and how vigilant I have to be. Intellectually I have been able to understand this question and the points above from ISOTM. Remembering to apply it all the time is quite a different story. I want to love to pray again and not be so worried about it... your question is a really great start. Reconsidering this HAS really helped.

The operation is scheduled for 2 HOURS!!! That blows me away too, but I have not expressed this to my folks.

While I understand your concern, just want to point out that a two hour surgery is nothing. It took them five hours to do the work on my shoulder... and they weren't replacing anything, just blasting out all the calcium with lasers.

All things considered, a hip replacement is not that big a deal these days. I've known some VERY old folks who had it done and were up and about rather quickly.

I believe that even Queen Elizabeth has had joint replacement and she's still hopping about.

Yes, there is ALWAYS risk with surgery - not to dismiss that - but here is where doctors are doing what they do best and it is rare for it to go wrong.

Thank-you Laura. I can't think of anyone with a hip replacement I know. I watched one on TV and it was just wild, all the sawing and hammering. I meant to communicate that the duration of her operation is so short and that is what freaked me out. I had this fear fueled ignorant image of a production line hip replacement factory. It's re-assuring to read your anecdotal and informed knowledge. Yea I can't believe she will have 3 phisio classes on her 1st day of recovery and be out in 3 or 4 days. Her spirits are high this is good I think. Again the fear filled thoughts come back as I worry she is putting on a brave front and is so scared inside. I don't think it is the case though, she seems honestly up beat.

So here is a question regarding prayer.... mental recitation? I have a belief that verbal recitation is the way to go. I either imagine or I see the waves of what is said out loud as stronger and more robust? Do you think this is a false belief? This is one of the ways I beat up on myself for not getting it perfect and sometimes I see I just dont give the same effort if I cant get it 'perfect'. Is this thinking flawed? I dont know. I see that I have this perfectionism that gets in the way allot, or maybe it is just an excuse to not do beneficial stuff. I grab onto an idea and wont let go of it, I am stubborn in that way. I can be a little too rigid about my beliefs/knowledge etc. Being more flexible is something I have grown into since joining the forum. My mind has been fairly open over the years but it is a work in progress. I really accept others views more readily and let them have their views and find that weather they are accurate or not in an objective way that all views .... can help to see reality. It is just how one takes them to heart.... or not.

A big problem with perfectionism is it can render you to do nothing if you cant get it perfect... this is a challenge for me. Then stuff like the dishes or house cleaning add up and then my house is a mess... (for example)

Perhaps you could change your attitude from one of desiring perfection, and thus being afraid to make mistakes, to one of experimentation?

OK... I think I need to look at what motivates my perfectionism... is this my challenge? Fear of making mistakes? I'm not sure. It could go deeper to not connecting with love. If I am perfect then I will be loved by others. I need to love myself... I don't know. Or acceptance too. Still I need to experiment.... I agree. I want to love in general and still am learning about TRUE love. Again.... know thy self comes to mind regarding love and acceptance of myself.... the good , the bad, the ugly. Ok and the beauty too. Oh boy... I am feeling and seeing here that a little 'tune up' on my self image may be in order. I need the pain of looking at myself to grow but I think I need to know when to go a little easy on myself to.... more balance is in in order. I could be wrong... I am open.

For example, you could say to yourself: 'OK. For one month I'll recite the POTS mentally before sleeping. I'll observe the results and decide whether or how to continue at the end of that month.'

I can't believe the resistance I am having with this suggestion. Like all you are asking me to be open to, is to say the prayer in my mind, something that I do already. But I can see just by my reaction how I can be closed to such a simple idea of an experiment like this. I sincerely am trying it now and will experiment with it.... thank-you. I already have some very interesting observations. Like how nice and quiet it is with out the noise of my voice.... hmmm. A sense on not being alone too.... interesting, I look forward to this experiment.

I think also (having a strong perfectionist and fear of mistakes element in my own personality) that you would need to talk to your inner child part, as it is usually this part that is frozen by the fear of making a mistake, and stepping out of its comfort zone can be quite scary. You need to (metaphorically) hold its hand and explain that things will be OK, and if the experiment doesn't work out, or you're not happy with the results, you and he can always go back to the way things were. Taking small steps, though, is really important. That way you can deal with small crises if they arise, rather than trying to make a giant leap and setting yourself up for failure.

Ok... talking to my inner child. I can see he has this fear. And small steps. This is a little heavy for me at the moment. I haven't explored my inner child stuff too too much, but am ready... I did some inner child art therapy over the decades... and writing.... but over all not allot I would say...

Endymion, I have an attitude about falling asleep while praying, I have guilt about it, I see this affects my routine... it was not until I went to EE class(for example) that I realised that I dont need to do every little part of the EE CD. It helped allot to see how the group does it. I can do pipe breathing without all the stretching for example.... this used to bog me down... everything had to be perfect.... yuk. Sounds like lots of anticipation there.

My understanding is that when we fall asleep while reciting the POTS, it goes more deeply into the unconscious (or the adaptive unconscious, as Timothy Wilson would say) and over time it becomes a real part of us and works from the inside out, so to say. I have found that doing this is remarkably effective and can be a real life-changer.

Ultimately, though, I think the thing is to find the way of working with the POTS that is the most comfortable and productive for you.

Thank-you for the link, I've been reading the adaptive unconscious thread.

I only use POTS now, the rest of my prayer is just me talking about things.... asking for better understanding etc.

All things considered, a hip replacement is not that big a deal these days. I've known some VERY old folks who had it done and were up and about rather quickly.

I believe that even Queen Elizabeth has had joint replacement and she's still hopping about.

Yes, there is ALWAYS risk with surgery - not to dismiss that - but here is where doctors are doing what they do best and it is rare for it to go wrong.

And to echo Laura's post, I also know several older people who have had hip and knee replacements and they are all really happy with the outcome. One fellow I know has had both hips and both knees replaced! And he is happy that he can now get about, do some gardening, and so on. And as Laura says, western doctors are incredibly advanced with surgical procedures, in fact they excel in that area.

It helps allot to read this.

Hoping all goes well with the operation Harold. My thoughts are with you and your Mum. X

I appreciate it nobodyslave.

Harold, you also would benefit by reading the "Redirect" thread and "The Adaptive Unconscious" thread.

I started on the 'Adaptive Unconscious' thread. Hope to finish it today or tommorow. And look forward to the 'Redirect' thread. I have read neither before. Thank-you.

 

[Al Today]

[...]
I can't think of anyone with a hip replacement I know. I watched one on TV and it was just wild, all the sawing and hammering.
[...]

I had a total hip replacement last March 2011. Yep, they'll get her walking very quickly. The pain after surgery was nothing to the pain I had in the hip before. Whenever I see the hip x-ray, the terminator movie comes to mind. :P
Methinks she will be happy in a very short amount of time. Walking better than she can now, and most likely pain free.!.!.!
That'll make it all worthwhile. Glad I did it. And I bet she will be too.!.!.!
Sawing and hammering... Glad I didn't see that show...

 

[Laura]

Yep, Al is right. When you suffer that kind of pain, you are READY to get it OUT!

I saw a photo on the news the other day of Queen Elizabeth on horseback, so she's not doing too shabby!

 

[Cyre2067]

Just wanted to wish you and your family good vibes Harold!

 

[Buddy]

[quote author=Harold]
Well, I do have an issue with this integration between the 2. I guess the principle's that apply to the big picture also apply to the little picture? Laws of attraction and so fourth? In general I do think of what is best for the universe in a way when I 'act', speak etc. I am having a little difficulty explaining this, let alone understanding it. As it is very challenging to do at all times. But is that possibly what you mean? I define little picture as my personal life and all those connected to it. The big picture is everything outside of that. The 2 operate under the same rules more or less. This is my simple explanation of it. These rules are what connects the 2. This is the integration. In the big picture, can 2 objects occupy the same space at the same time? In the little picture we are all 1? I don't have the answers or even know if I am following you... so let me know.[/quote]

Hi Harold. Apologies for any confusion. I was speaking more in systems terms, I suppose, and suggesting that any perceived conflicts between "pictures" just means that more info is needed to make sense of everything. It was almost as if I was thinking you were preparing for a round of "faith healing". :D Anyway, you got the important bits, though, and it seems that a pragmatic approach would be more relevant. I agree that this is an area where doctors do their best work!