Would you go to war?

[dankhiar]

What if no one showed up to the war? Great question. What if there was no war but people were bombing the ever living snot out of everyone you ever loved? What then? People break into your house and abuse your children. Maybe rape your wife or kill you husband (or rape your husband and kill your wife, whatever, it happens). The full on passifist mentality isn't fully legit if it is brought to your doorstep. Many say that they won't ever get physically involved because of personal boundaries or ideals that they have against said ideas of violence but math is math and anyone would defend what they value. Especially from tyranny. Let's not be delusional.
Or you can stand by and watch such horrors knowing that you did nothing to prevent it. Take your pick. I say avoid if it's avoidable but if it isn't, then give me hell.

I don't think it's about being a pacifist. We all "fight" for what we believe differently. If they're coming into your house, raping your children, bombing your neighborhood, you first gotta ask yourself why. Why is it happening? Clearly it's something you brought upon yourself in a way or another. It wouldn't happen if you hadn't. Knowledge protects.

 

[loreta]

Totally off-topic now, but last night I had a pretty horrific dream which felt quite realistic. I was in a public restroom, and there were people of all ages (including children) and from all walks of life. At some point, I went to another room which was right next to it, and which looked like some kind of an empty office. Not long after that, I heard a person entering the restroom who started to shoot and kill all the people who were there. I decided to hide under the table in the office room I was in, which had a table cloth that was long enough so that I couldn't be seen. The room had a lot of windows though, so I could be spotted and be killed as well. I could hear the footsteps of that person coming closer. It was at that point that I kind of started to wake up and realize that it was a dream. But the kind of fear I felt, and the horror I felt of having witnessed those innocent people being killed, was still there. It is really scary. That dream kind of helped me understand how the people in Ukraine must feel, and the many people in ''war''torn countries. Mine was just a nightmare, but they live in fear all the time. It's heartbreaking.

--

I think it is not off-topic your nightmare. As human beings our dreams with their landscapes are reflecting what is happening, and now what is happening is war. War very near or not, it is always very near when we feel for humanity. So it is normal I think that war appears during our sleeping hours, to teach us in fact. Nightmares can be lessons. And also I think so a sort of "communication" with people that are at war and for whom we feel compassion for. When there was the genocide in Rwanda I had a nightmare similar to yours, where I felt very vividly what it was to be in the middle of a massacre, and the majority of people that are in the middle of a war, civils, are trap like rats. Me too I was trapped in my nightmare like a rat. So in the middle of this your instinct of survive has to be very strong but in the middle of the war I don't think that you have time to ask yourself: will I participate in it or not? You are in it, like a rat. So what you do? You try to survive.

Those nightmares give us insights about the fear that people are living when in the middle of a war, their fear, their terror. Thanks to share your nightmare. War is a nightmare, also.

 

[Mikey]

In Ukraine, only 6% of men voluntarily follow the conscription. Many are leaving the country, and the families protect the men from the recruiters:

http://www.sott.net/article/292487-A-line-in-the-sand-When-Ukrainians-choose-not-to-die-in-a-war

 

[dankhiar]

In Ukraine, only 6% of men voluntarily follow the conscription. Many are leaving the country, and the families protect the men from the recruiters:

http://www.sott.net/article/292487-A-line-in-the-sand-When-Ukrainians-choose-not-to-die-in-a-war

Thanks for this, Data. Very interesting.

 

[Henchman 21]

Perhaps I have been misunderstood. I'm not implying that people should join boko haram. I'm saying thousands of people have been killed by boko haram because they were sitting defenseless and couldn't walk or run away. If you really believe that they deserved that due to lack of knowledge, then I guess that's that.

 

[Dylan]

I don't think it's about being a pacifist. We all "fight" for what we believe differently. If they're coming into your house, raping your children, bombing your neighborhood, you first gotta ask yourself why. Why is it happening? Clearly it's something you brought upon yourself in a way or another. It wouldn't happen if you hadn't. Knowledge protects.

This sounds like blame the victim to me. Absurd.

 

[loreta]

I don't think it's about being a pacifist. We all "fight" for what we believe differently. If they're coming into your house, raping your children, bombing your neighborhood, you first gotta ask yourself why. Why is it happening? Clearly it's something you brought upon yourself in a way or another. It wouldn't happen if you hadn't. Knowledge protects.

This sounds like blame the victim to me. Absurd.

I agree with Dylan.

The majority of civilians that die in the middle of a war are innocent. It is not their fault. They are victims of the circumstances, victims of their politicians, their leaders, and the leaders of the world. Maybe they were not aware of how this planet function, that's another subject. Knowledge protects, it is true. But to a certain point. You can be well informed about comets but that will not protect you to receive a piece of one of it on the head. It can happen. And it will not be your fault. You can be well aware of the politics of your country but if a war starts, and it can start like this, very fast (we are seeing this in Ukraine), when in the middle of this nightmare you are the victim, aware or not. I think so...

 

[LjRoxArk]

A few of my family are officers in the US Military branches. Half are there b/c they went to Annapolis, West Point,et al; half b/c the Military was the best financial future they saw for themselves in the next 20 years, and they have the same officer relatives that I do, at least giving them the hope that the association will help them in their careers,too....probably will.

What I see happening is that "there is no money left in the upper middle class economy", and so their children are left with fewer options, one very solid financial option is the military. Sadly, I think that it's the money they need that drives them into this career path, and I don't think that is an accident; the gutting of the middle class is intentional, and as of right now, a successful strategy to distract much of the resistance capacity in the US.

In fact , a couple of them left , and had to go back b/c they could not find jobs with equivalent pay/benefits....like piloting aircraft , for example. Airlines aren't hiring, and pilots don't make what they used to even if they are hired, relatively speaking. :(

Personally , I would not kill or harm for the US Govt, or any other govt; I want to try to avoid the need for the decision in the first place. I would actively protest any kind of draft or conscription by leaving the country/region of demand.

just my 2cents..

 

[Divide by Zero]

I don't think it's about being a pacifist. We all "fight" for what we believe differently. If they're coming into your house, raping your children, bombing your neighborhood, you first gotta ask yourself why. Why is it happening? Clearly it's something you brought upon yourself in a way or another. It wouldn't happen if you hadn't. Knowledge protects.

This sounds like blame the victim to me. Absurd.

D'Ankhiar, knowledge does protect, but in cases like this- sometimes circumstance means there is no way out. We really have a fraction of all knowledge, and thus, that protection. You can still be walking down the street and randomly be shot during a robbery. Just because someone gets hurt, doesn't mean they brought it on themselves. YCYOR was explained by Topper to be tied to the group, which means we cannot override the rest of society...

 

[dankhiar]

I don't think it's about being a pacifist. We all "fight" for what we believe differently. If they're coming into your house, raping your children, bombing your neighborhood, you first gotta ask yourself why. Why is it happening? Clearly it's something you brought upon yourself in a way or another. It wouldn't happen if you hadn't. Knowledge protects.

This sounds like blame the victim to me. Absurd.

I admit I worded that wrong, I'm sorry my message didn't go through clearly enough. It's also not about blaming anyone. You'd have to be pretty ignorant or entitled to look for fault or someone to blame. It's the simple fact that everything happens for a reason. How good or bad something is, really just depends on how the individual sees it. I believe we sign up for the things that happen to us in a way or another, to experience them, and eventually learn from them.

 

[Dylan]

The reason may be just as simple as being in the wrong place at the wrong time and being in proximity to a violent individual. There are undoubtedly lessons to be learned from suffering, but I don't think that is the reason for the wanton destruction and abuse that occur on the bbm. I also don't like the idea that 'we bring it on ourselves' for whatever karmic reasons. But, that is an opinion, based on a feeling and for all we know you could be right. Or not.

 

[dankhiar]

The reason may be just as simple as being in the wrong place at the wrong time and being in proximity to a violent individual. There are undoubtedly lessons to be learned from suffering, but I don't think that is the reason for the wanton destruction and abuse that occur on the bbm. I also don't like the idea that 'we bring it on ourselves' for whatever karmic reasons. But, that is an opinion, based on a feeling and for all we know you could be right. Or not.

I just think that if they weren't meant to happen, they wouldn't. But it is definitely an opinion; just something I believe in for the simple fact that it just makes sense to me. This is what we're here (on the forum) for, to exchange ideas. I also think it's even more absurd to call someone's idea absurd just because you don't agree with it.

 

[Dylan]

I called blaming the victim absurd. Nothing more, nothing less. Perhaps you should take the time to prepare a more in depth writing of your idea, so that I can understand it more clearly. I did not mean offense.

 

[Seaniebawn]

that reminds me of an article by Michael Topper on YCYOR

[A paradigm that is currently running amok through the New Age community, and which is depriving them of their last bit of common sense, is better known as “You Create Your Own Reality” (short: YCYOR). This insidious half-truth is usually placed into a very misleading context and is never completely true.
Let us just look at some basic facts that we can derive if YCYOR would be completely true:
1.) Every war victim, or rape victim, etc. must have wanted to draw whatever misfortune upon itself, since that victim “created his own reality”.
Common sense tells us here, that this is nonsense, and that not all war victims, etc. ever wanted to happen that war to them. For me, common sense simply wins, and cuts a long discussion short.
2.) We would live in a solipsistic universe wherein we could do whatever we wanted without further consequences.
But pretty much obviously, we do not live in such an utopian universe, and no, even on higher densities, there is no such universe./i]

Link to the full article.

http://cassiopaea.org/2010/09/15/why-you-dont-create-your-own-reality-an-antidote-to-fatuous-new-age-paradigms/

 

[Henchman 21]

Thank you seaniebawn. Brilliant.
It is good to aspire towards 4d sto but we currently live in 3d sts. There is no escape. Even Julius Caesar rolled with an army.
Don't get me wrong. I am anti violence but I will protect out of love to any degree.