Would you send a 10 year old to Zimbabwe?

[thorbiorn]

Thorbiorn, the question isn't whether China is supporting Mugabe and Zanu-PF, the question is why? WHY-WHY-WHY-WHY-WHY?!?!?!?

What was their interest in 1980 when the helped Mugabe in the Rhodesian gorilla war for independance, and what is their interest 28 years later? There's no sticky black rivers flowing underneath Mugabe's feet? What is Mugabe giving them that Ian Smith wouldn't and Morgan Tsvangirai won't. Suddenly the enemy has a new face.

You are right in questioning and below are a few other possible motives for Chinese interest:
This is from the 'Travelogue thread about SA'

AFRICA NEWS China ready to send more farmers to Africa
Beijing (AFP) Sept 20, 2007
China is preparing to send more farmers to Africa as rural laborers find it increasingly difficult to find jobs in the nation's urban centres, state press reported. At a meeting in southwest China's Chongqing city, the head of China's Export-Import Bank Li Ruogu pledged to help finance African emigration as part of the city's urbanisation scheme, the People's Daily reported on its website. ... more

Some one told me in Maputo, but it is not confirmed, that in the last three years Mozambique received 3000 Chinese, Angola 40000 and South Africa 160000.

That was September-October 2007.

The next source is 'CIA - The World Factbook'

Natural resources: coal, chromium ore, asbestos, gold, nickel, copper, iron ore, vanadium, lithium, tin, platinum group metals

So no oil yet, but these minerals are useful too. Then I wondered if CIA had got it right?!? Or did they leave out the natural gas?

The windows document 'An overview of the Energy Situation in Zimbabwe' from _http://www.energy.gov.zw/An%20overviewe%20of%20the%20energy%20situation%20in%20Zimbabwe.doc has:

Zimbabwe is endowed with coal reserves estimated at 26 billion tons, but has no oil reserves. Coal – bed methane was recently discovered and the deposits are believed to be the largest natural gas fields in Eastern and Southern Africa estimated at 500 million cubic metres of gas. There are many uses of coal - bed methane, which include electricity generation, which should come in handy considering the forecast regional electricity shortage by 2007. The hydroelectric potential on the Zambezi River is estimated at 37 TWh pa. Fuelwood resources cover about 20% of the land area. The solar potential is relatively high with an average radiation of 2 100 kWh/m2/year, but wind potential is negligible.

Today the Zimbabwean lady that is around, said she heard a news report about some arms for Mugabe coming via Maputo in Mozambique. That makes for now two different shipments. She also said, that the tractors Mugabe has given to some of his farmers are of Chinese origin.

Having written about Zim for some days justify to put a map:

_http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=Zimbabwe) gives information about the different language and ethnic groups in Zimbabwe. A shorter description is found on _http://www.countryreports.org/Zimbabwe.aspx

Zimbabwe History
Primarily of the Bantu group of south and central Africa, the black Zimbabweans are divided into two major language groups, which are subdivided into several ethnic groups. The Mashona (Shona speakers), who constitute about 75% of the population, have lived in the area the longest and are the majority language group. The Matabele (Sindebele speakers), representing about 20% of the population and centered in the southwest around Bulawayo, arrived within the last 150 years. An offshoot of the South African Zulu group, they maintained control over the Mashona until the white occupation of Rhodesia in 1890.

Both Mugabe and Tsvangirai are Shona speakers.

On the following site there is a map which detail the events around the 'free elections': _http://www.sokwanele.com/map/all_breaches
The website has some newslinks:
_http://www.zimonline.co.za/
_http://zwnews.com/
_http://www.fingaz.co.zw/
_http://www.swradioafrica.com/
_http://www.voanews.com/english/africa/Zimbabwe/Index.cfm
_http://www.zimbabwesituation.com/
A good summary of the results so far are on http://www.zimonline.co.za/Article.aspx?ArticleId=3061

 

[Erna]

Thanks for shedding some light on the issue DonaldJHunt.

Anyone could see that Rhodesia and apartheid South Africa were on the wrong side of history. Also in 1980, Mugabe was a hero in what was then called the Third World and also in left circles in the West. As a white South African you may have missed out on that :)

Yes, in my carefully crafted apartheid education, he was the villain, not the hero he was in the eyes of others. In light of the past 8 years, it would seem as though we weren't that off the mark...............................I'm playing with you, I know what you mean ;)

Thanks for all the info thorbiorn.

That makes for now two different shipments.

There were reports of people trying to stop the Durban cargo from reaching Zimbabwe, but South African authorities have said that they could not interfere in legitimate trade between two other countries, and there is no arms embargo in place against Zimbabwe.....gee, how about saying "fine, but don't use our infrastructure then"...

I hear terrible stories on the radio of zenophobia against Zimbabweans in the townships, especially Mamelodi.

 

[Erna]

The cargo was stopped!

Bishop stops Zim arms shipment

Little victories here and there gives one hope, doesn't it.

 

[thorbiorn]

_http://www.zimonline.co.za/Article.aspx?ArticleId=3041

Military chief takes charge of Mugabe’s campaign
by Farisai Gonye Wednesday 16 April 2008

Zimbabwe’s top military commander Constantine Chiwenga has taken personal charge of President Robert Mugabe’s re-election bid, as reports began to surface this week of opposition supporters murdered in what increasingly appears a coordinated terror campaign against government opponents.

Authoritative military sources said Chiwenga, commander of the Zimbabwe Defence Forces (ZDF) that comprises the army and air force, met in Bulawayo last Saturday and Sunday provincial commanders of the army, police and secret service police to map out a campaign plan for Mugabe.

_http://www.zimonline.co.za/Article.aspx?ArticleId=3054 has

Hundreds of MDC supporters injured in post election violence
by Patricia Mpofu Friday 18 April 2008

HARARE – Zimbabwe’s opposition has said hundreds of its supporters have suffered serious injuries while at least one supporter was murdered in an orgy of violence it blamed on state security agents and militant activists of President Robert Mugabe’s ZANU PF party.

China's support means they are attempting to do, what the U.S., to take an example, has often done in South Ámerica.

 

[Erna]

There is only one way to get rid of Mugabe, and that is to fight fire with fire. If anyone still has any doubt about this issue being resolved via diplomatic means then they are delusional. We know the people of Zimbabwe can't do it, they don't have arms.

The only none African country involved (with action) is China, and they are backing Mugabe & Co. So the only country with sufficient military means who might put up a good fight and who might come to Zim's rescue is....us. Now, it is most interesting to observe the dynamics between the Mbeki and Zuma camps at present. I know, to choose between Mbeki and Zuma is like standing between the devil and the deep blue sea. But when South Africans hear Mbeki's name they want to gag, because the same way he says with a straight face "there's no crisis in Zim", the same way he's been saying there's no crime problem in SA. So in short, he has lost the support of South Africans, of all races and colours.

Zuma's popularity got a huge boost after his outspoken remarks about the crisis in Zim, the crime crisis, the possibility of bringing back the death penalty, empowering the police, after meeting with Tsvangirai while Mbeki is holding Mugabe's hand and especially after Tsvangirai's remarks in his live press conference. Let's also remember that Zuma has a personal vendetta against Mbeki, cause Mbeki fired him last year. So Zuma is playing the whole situation beautifully, you can almost hear the music in his rise to the top...okay violins you can come in now...la-la-la...trumpets...

Let's also remember that Zuma is standing trial soon on corruption in the arms deal, and that he stood trial for rape last year, although he proved his innocence in that one. While following the rape trial one couldn't help to wonder if the whole thing wasn't one of Mbeki's plots to get rid of Zuma. Zuma certainly voiced such sentiments. Anyway, Zuma is taking centre stage now, Mbeki is a has been. Zuma is saying all the right things to all the right people, the whites (he invites Steve Hofmeyer - Afrikaans singing icon - to his house and trade biltong recipes. After that stunt all Afrikaans speaking whites go aaahhhhhh, hope has arrived). He addresses the Jewish community and the only thing missing from his show is a Talmud under his arm. He visits the farmers and rock up....you guessed it....dressed as a farmer, with the Zulus he joins in their favourite lullaby - "bring me my machine gun?". He doesn't have to con anymore, because he is already the president of the ANC, and in 2009 he'll be the president of the country. So why is he doing it? Or is it just a case of a PR company to die for, with perfectly timed photo opportunities.

Anyway, that brings us back to Zimbabwe. Is it realistic to think that maybe, just maybe this man can rise to the occasion? Besides, the 2010 soccer world cup is also in the balance, they can't hand out bullet proof vests to all the foreigners arriving at the airport.

On a last note, Mandela is awfully quiet in all of this, I don't think he is in good health, and I don't think the current situation is helping.

 

[thorbiorn]

There is only one way to get rid of Mugabe, and that is to fight fire with fire.

The way I read

Zimbabwe’s top military commander Constantine Chiwenga has taken personal charge of President Robert Mugabe’s re-election bid,

was that Mugabe is aligning himself with the military, and that he might prefer them to inherit his status rather than the opposition.

So the only country with sufficient military means who might put up a good fight and who might come to Zim's rescue is....us.

Funny how things change, the thread began with a question of whether one could send a 10 year old girl into Zimbabwe.

I hear terrible stories on the radio of zenophobia against Zimbabweans in the townships, especially Mamelodi.

Perhaps some will be inspired to go back, preferring the struggle for their rights there.

 

[Erna]

Funny how things change, the thread began with a question of whether one could send a 10 year old girl into Zimbabwe.

I think if nemo is still following this thread, he/she has sufficent information at his/her disposal.

Thorbiorn, why did you edit your post? I was laughing all the way to the kitchen to go make some coffee, thinking how I'm going to top that one. We should go into a partnership on those "Proudly South African" bullet proof vests for the 2010 World Cup Soccer.

...and the bomb proof dresses for ATMs....GENIUS!

They have blown up 189 ATMs in the last 3 months, another 2 yesterday. So let me get this straight, we can't go into banks out of fear of a gang of balaklava dudes storming in, we can't draw cash from ATMs cause one doesn't know if the thing is going to explode in your face, so that leaves us with internet banking, and if they steal all the copper and fibre optic cables then our lovely internet exchange here will have to come to an abrupt end.

Perhaps some will be inspired to go back, preferring the struggle for their rights there.

I don't know...after new reports of that Chinese vessel on it's way to Maputo now, it looks like they're going to transport the cargo via Mozambique, and since the Chinese soldiers are deployed in Mutare, on the Mozambiqan border, well, they definately thought this one through...
I would rather keep a low profile in SA for a little while.

Thorbiorn, really! You edited all the stuff out that I wanted to respond on! Where's the stuff about Susan She-bang-bang?

EDIT: When you edit your posts, you must do it like this, I've seen some of the guys on the forum do it like this. It's better, cause then everyone can see that the post has been edited. Why did you edit your post Thorbiorn, you don't have to be ashamed at seeing humour in the crime situation, sometimes laughing about things can turn out to be your best friend. If we all walk around all day saying "oh it's so bad" "oh this is so unbearable" "we are all going to die" "apocalypse now", then we'll be dead long before the criminals get to us.

Where's the stuff you wrote about Jonas Savimbi? We all know the history books have been rewritten in the new regime, thanks to Van Zyl Slabbert pointing out a few discrepensies in the new school curriculum.

 

[Erna]

On the topic of turning something sad into something hilarious, I knew someone once who had quite a violent upbringing at the hands of his father. His father was an alcoholic and a bit of a monster, yet at the same time quite a stand-up guy in the community. His father pushed their mom down the stairs one night, locked them out of the house at night when they didn't "behave", sent them to bed without food and on and on. So when his father finally died of a heart attack (or liver failure, who knows) and he and his 2 sisters were already grown-ups, they got together one afternoon to write their father's obituary. He said he hasn't laughed that much in his life. They were having wine while writing it, and I think the wine must have played some part. They would write: "Daddy was our rock" then there would be a pause and someone would say "when he didn't throw us with a rock" and they would crawl on the floor laughing. Then one of them would say: "Daddy was an example" and they would all toast one another and down their glasses with wine practically squirting through their noses. Then one would say: "Daddy was a pillar in the community"....pause......"everyone's moral compass"....laughter.

Laughter is the best medicine.

I think if someone goes for an interview at a company, their children should be interviewed instead.

 

[nemo]

I think if nemo is still following this thread, he/she has sufficent information at his/her disposal.

Absolutely. I feel a bit bad for abandoning this thread. On the other hand it serves quite well now as a Zimbabwe platform.
I don`t think the Granny will sent the kid down to Zim. There are no new personal developments. My friend continues to supply me
with new zim infos and i occasionally get to read some of her sisters emails (which are in german, otherwise i`d offer some samples;
also see Pippi - song)
I do not have the mind to occupy myself indepth with whatever goes on in Zim at the moment, since I´m pretty
much occupied with MY OWN SISTER. She`s on an increasingly self destructive downward spiral, which rays outward to all family members.
Am on the phone with my mom every other day. Yesterday i had an emotional outburst after talking with her. It`s sooo frustrating.
Regarding helping one`s family I come to the preliminary conclusion that there`s very little one can do to help. There quickly comes the point,
I fear, where one can just sit back and watch them tearing themselves apart.
Telling oneself: they`re just learning their lessons.
Their suffering is by their own choice.
Nothing to be done about it.
Sorry.
My friend suggested that the following songtext from a swedish children`s movie pretty much sums up her and my sister`s thinking:
(sorry for mediocre translation)

Pippi Longstockings

2 times 3 is 4
widdewiddewitt plus 3 is nine!!
I make up the world
widdewiddewitt like I liiiike it.
...
Hey - Pippi Longstockings
trallari trallahey tralla hoppsasa
Hey - Pippi Langstrumpf,
who does whatever she likes.

I have a house,
a many colored houuuse
a little monkey and a horse,
who look out the window there.

I have a house,
a many colored house,
and everybody who likes us,
gets teached the simple multiplication from us.

3 times 3 is 6 - widdewidde
who wants to learn it from me?
we make up our own world,
widdewidde like we liiiiike it.

Hey - Pippi Longstockings
trallari trallahey tralla hoppsasa
Hey - Pippi Langstrumpf,
who does whatever she likes.

Ah, almost forgot. Sarah`s spiritual guide:
_http://www.thedailyguru.com/

Sorry, cannot help the cynism .

 

[thorbiorn]

Thorbiorn, why did you edit your post?

I went to Midrand and 'came to my senses' on the way. I've tried to find the sections that got razed, but the Firefox settings have not allowed anything to be kept.

But why? Because as you say:

I think if nemo is still following this thread, he/she has sufficient information at his/her disposal.

The second reason were some doubts about the long term wisdom of the expressions. Ok, maybe I was a bit ashamed, so I went for a version that was almost sterile. I kept cutting down until I felt totally relaxed. One never knows who reads; this is after all Serious Of The Times, rather than Humor Of The Times. It is not that I doubted your sense of humor, in fact it was your formulations that inspired me, thanks, and it is good you got a laugh in return, before I deleted; however as you yourself write:

I would rather keep a low profile in SA for a little while.

I agree with the next (in general):

you don't have to be ashamed at seeing humour in the crime situation, sometimes laughing about things can turn out to be your best friend.

This is very true, it helps one to maintain a reasonable level of sanity under trying circumstances, including, as you suggest, maintaining feet on the ground when doomsday prophets speak up; - even though it might happen one day ;)

The quote about Jonas Savimbi was from Wikipedia.

Now to the business: I looked at the bullet proof vests and clothing. There is a VIP selection here: _http://www.fortierandco.com/index.php For more options see also _http://www.turtleskin.com/Body-Armor.aspx or _http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/Bullet_Proof_Jacket.html In general they look cool, but not in summer. They do give some protection, although one can still get injured, if hit in the wrong places or does not use a design that is adequate. Also they are not fool proof; one has to be smart enough to wear them at the critical moments.

There are many manufactures of bullet proof vests, and websites with reviews. the types that are most attractive to me are called 'lightweight concealable bulletproof vests'. I would pay a bit more and get one that is also stab proof, if I had to live for years here, where I am now. One can wear the fancy soccer T-shirt on top of the lightweight models and still look good.

Selling bullet proofs vests to tourists? They are costly (my wish ap. 1600 USD). One could rent them out for a fee, just like Avis rents out cars. Maybe that is overdoing it, but if things continue, as they are, I am sure at least a few tourists of 2010, infused with a bit of justified paranoia, will consider getting one. They will stuff a vest in their travel bag, just as many ordinary tourist do with their supply of painkillers and pills for diarrhea.

Mentioning Avis gave the association to armoured vehicles. I don't know if Avis have them, but here are some examples: _http://www.interarmored.com/armored_toyota_landcruiser_options.htm or _http://www.armoured-cars.co.uk/

Erna you are from Centurion. For those who might like to visit South Africa or Gauteng region, I should mention that the shopping mall at Centurion Lake is a lovely place next to a small lake, which makes it quite different from the other malls I have been to like Rosebank, Sandton City, Eastgate, and the Boulders. Centurion is also more Afrikaans, and the mall has an Afrikaans book shop or two, not that I read it, but I have not seen any before. The reason for coming out there today first time, was that major bookshops in Northern Johannesburg did not have the book I was looking for, so they advised me to try Centurion, and I found it.

 

[Erna]

Good luck with your sister nemo. In light of recent developments in Zim, I think you know the answer to your initial question.

I went to Midrand and 'came to my senses' on the way.

Why would you have to "come to you senses"?

The second reason were some doubts about the long term wisdom of the expressions.

?

Ok, maybe I was a bit ashamed, so I went for a version that was almost sterile.

Why were you ashamed?

One never knows who reads; this is after all Serious Of The Times, rather than Humor Of The Times.

I think I elaborated enough on the neccesity for satire every now and then.

I would rather keep a low profile in SA for a little while.

I wasn't referring to myself, I was referring to Zimbabweans.

Back to bullet proof vests, the day I have to acquire one of those is the day I leave the country.

How about getting back to Jonas Savimbi and Susan She-bang-bang?

 

[thorbiorn]

About my retreat: I was not sure I should, jokes aside, leave ideas about how one could take out Mugabe through violent means. That was the main concern.

How about getting back to Jonas Savimbi and Susan She-bang-bang?

A modified version follows:
I could not help laughing when comparing the readiness of Susan Shabangu to your own:

I was quite surprised today when our deputy minister, Susan Shabangu, adressed the police today and ordered them to "shoot to kill, you were given
guns, use them! Make every bullet count".

The only none African country involved (with action) is China, and they are backing Mugabe & Co. So the only country with sufficient military means who might put up a good fight and who might come to Zim's rescue is....us.

The SA Defense Force not being the Offense Force it used to be, or so I heard, I thought the Zimbabwean's could do the job themselves as did the Angolans with Jonas Savimbi, leader of UNITA. Only problem, it turned out that the Angolan people possibly were not solely responsible:

After surviving more than a dozen assassination attempts, Savimbi was killed on February 22, 2002, in a battle with Angolan government troops - and, reportedly, South African mercenaries and Israeli special forces[12] - along riverbanks in the province of Moxico, his birthplace.

The reference [12] is: _http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article701007.ece and explains about the ban for South Africans to work as mercenaries.

Back to bullet proof vests, the day I have to acquire one of those is the day I leave the country.

Another issue is that if one is hurt then what? Yesterday I saw a headline about a survey showing, that half of South Africa's doctors are considering to leave. Add to this that an Intensive Care nurse I know tells me, that the standard of health is dropping very much, and that the new doctors being trained in general are much less qualified and often not even suitable by nature having been drawn mainly by the money and the prestige. Well, maybe it will get better in some years from now.

 

[Erna]

I was not sure I should, jokes aside, leave ideas about how one could take out Mugabe through violent means.

I prefer looking at it as saving millions of Zimbabweans. Of course one can always argue that once Sadam was toppled Iraqis' lives took a turn for the worse. Once again, let's thank our lucky stars there's no oil in Zim. And also, I don't think it's possible for Zimbabweans lives to take a turn for the worse - ZIM$ 100 million get's you 3 breads on the black market + I have 'Google Alerts' on Zim, and it's not looking good. We (or anyone) should go into action, before we have a genocide on our hands.

The SA Defense Force not being the Offense Force it used to be, or so I heard

All I know is that our geographic location and the fact that we are surrounded by ocean is one of our best assets. It would be difficult for anyone to pick a fight with us, and China has to come a far far way to pick this fight, Zim is on our doorstep. But wars are won with dissipline, something we are in short supply of these days.

Anyway, we are fetching the baboon behind the mountain here, it's pointless to have this conversation at this point, or maybe unnaturally optimistic.

I thought the Zimbabwean's could do the job themselves as did the Angolans with Jonas Savimbi, leader of UNITA. Only problem, it turned out that the Angolan people possibly were not solely responsible:

They can't do the job themselves, unless they all storm the Bastille. There are 15 000 Jewish people left in Zim, I would advise them to return to the promised land as a matter of urgency.

Another issue is that if one is hurt then what?

Then you return to the 5th density of contemplation and tell your guides that you would rather go to the Caribbean in your next life.

Well, maybe it will get better in some years from now.

Time is a patient teacher.

 

[thorbiorn]

Note the text below was edited and slightly expanded about 13 hours after first listed posting time.

We (or anyone) should go into action, before we have a genocide on our hands.

Mandela is married to the wife of former President Samora Machel from the party Frelimo in Mozambique, and add that the parties and people in power in Mozambique, Zimbabwe and South Africa all supported each other in their struggle for power, and that Robert Mugabe is the oldest statesman in power of these three countries, do you think anybody of any significance in the South African government will even contemplate going against him?

I tried to research an alleged family relationship between Thabo Mbeki and Robert Mugabe. What I first heard was that their wives are sisters. But other sources differ:

Are grace mugabe and thabo mbeki related?
In: African History, Politics and Policy, Continent of Africa

Answer

Zelda Le Grange (Mr. Nelson Mandela's Personal Assistant) reported that they are indeed related. Grace Mugabe and Zanele Mbeki could be cousins???

I think it is not true. Zanele Mbeki is a Zulu, if anything it must be distant. Edit: Asked a Zimbabwean woman, she said that Grace Mugabe is from Shona tribe.

Below is more about the lady behind Robert Mugabe; I have included it to give a broader perspective, perhaps someone in the know or interested can find out how much of ponerology applies. See also three minutes YouTube presentation of ponerology for a short explanation.

_http://www.newzimbabwe.com/pages/shopper2.11947.html has stories about lavish spending of First Lady and also among some top officials. See more claims of extravagance on _http://www.bullshitnews.co.uk/Archive/Feb2003FP.html not so sweet language, but probably some sad truth too.
The brother of Grace Mugabe was charged with fraud: _http://dearmrrobertmugabe.blogspot.com/2007/04/grace-marufus-brother-to-be-prosecuted.html


The next article lists full name of Grace Mugabe as 'GRACE MARUFU/GORERAZA/ MATIBIRI (Mugabe). However Goreraza can not really be, since that was the name of her first husband: _http://zimgossiper.blogspot.com/2007/04/oppah-mugabes-comfort-girl.html has

However Mugabe was secretly seeing a married woman, Grace Marufu, and sired two children, Bona and Robert Jnr. Her husband, Stanley Goreraza, was abroad, furthering his education. Mugabe eventually forcibly married her and they had a son, Chatunga, after solemnising the union.

The name Matibiri according to the Wiki for Mugabe is the place, where he was born; or so I interpret it, unless she came from the same locality, so the only name that remains is: Grace Marufu. This is how she fell for Thailand:

Sources close to Mugabe's wife Grace revealed that she has been in the Thai city since the beginning of March where she is putting final touches to a mansion where the First Family is tipped to retire.

Our source, a close relative of the First Lady revealed that she [First Lady] fell in love with the resort town of Chiang Rai when she went with President Mugabe on his five-day visit to the country in 2001.

_http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/12/26/wzim26.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/12/26/ixworld.html Mugabe's wife selects her farm and orders the owners to leave.
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_NtfsM69AU Grace Mugabe in a Satiric YouTube, with here and there some genuine pictures.

If you read the following article and understand a minimum about magic you will get the idea. If I compare the allegations, with what else I have heard in ZA and MZ from Africans, and other ancient cultures, then the article is quite realistic and completely normal, nothing particularly sinister about it, - or there does not have to be. In the quote there is used one word 'juju': which is explained on _http://www.answers.com/juju as

1. An object used as a fetish, a charm, or an amulet in West Africa. 2. The supernatural power ascribed to such an object.

Here is the story:

Grace Mugabe's N'anga Exposed

By Lee Shungu, on December 11 2007 13:05

President Robert Mugabe's wife, Grace Mugabe (Marufu) regularly consults a witchdoctor (n'anga) who is said to be very good in her work as a healer, in fore-telling and most of all- in the use of 'juju'.

_http://www.silobreaker.com/View360.aspx?Item=11_2508398 has an overview page for Grace Mugabe. One link I tried had:

Grace no match for Mugabe's generals


April 06, 2008 Edition 1

Moshoeshoe Monare

Zimbabwean first lady Grace Mugabe tried unsuccessfully to dissuade President Robert Mugabe from running for a sixth term while the 84-year old leader was being pressured by his generals and party hawks to defend his 28-year rule.

The Sunday Independent understands that Grace told Mugabe that the situation was too traumatic for their children.

"Apparently, the children were being taunted at school that their father had brought this suffering upon the country. She also told Mugabe that he was 84 and if he were to go for a sixth term he would not have a chance or time to spend with the family," an insider well connected to the family said.

It is believed that Mugabe promised Grace that he would stand for one last term "just to defend the revolution against the MDC and the imperialists".

Grace put on a smiling face and appeared with Mugabe when the president cast his vote in his home township of Highfields on Saturday last week.

But last Sunday, when it was clear that MDC leader Morgan Tsvangirai had presented Mugabe with the toughest election contest in the history of his leadership, Grace is said to have gone to the president and said: "I told you so."

Mugabe and his vice-president, Joyce Mujuru, blamed the electoral defeat on water affairs minister Munacho Mutezo because there was no water in Harare days before the elections.

Security chiefs convened a Joint Operations Command last Sunday to decide on how to prevent a Tsvangirai presidency.

The generals were led by Defence Force chief General Constantine Chiwenga, whose wife, Jocelyn, is understood to be pushing her husband to preserve "their lifestyle" at all costs. This week Chiwenga said he was determined to defend the Mugabe presidency at all costs, even if it meant a coup. He was supported by Air Force Marshall Perence Shiri.

Both men commanded the notorious Fifth Brigade, which was involved in the Gukurahundi massacres in Matabeleland in the 1980s.

Security and diplomatic sources said the two men were "seriously worried" that they would be arrested if Tsvangirai took over.

Chiwenga, police commissioner Augustine Chihuri, and the director of prisons, retired brigadier Paradzai Zimondi, said they would not salute a puppet.

But the security chiefs were persuaded by a powerful outsider, as well as by army chief Major General Philip Sibanda, to negotiate with Tsvangirai.

Other security chiefs, such as intelligence director Happyton Bonyongwe, are said to have crossed to Tsvangirai.

Grace Mugabe apparently has enough earth connection or spirit connections to know when the music is over.


In case they end up with a genocide in Zim, do you have any reason to feel guilty? I think, NO, not really, because the leaders and their cliques want to rule, they want to be independent, they want this and that to make up for all the injustices they have been subjected to under 'white' people. If anyone really cared in South Africa, why is it that the labour union COSATU only wake up to protest against unloading the ship with weapons destined for Zim? Why is it they have not years ago put pressure on the Government to sort out Zim and Mugabe, so that millions of Zimbabweans didn't need to come into SA and take the jobs from their own people? Or was there a different plan, to create so much chaos here, that those who used to have power and money would release it, just like in a big scale Zimbabwean style farm invasion and eviction? Or is this too harsh? Is it karma coming back?

1830s - Ndebele people fleeing Zulu violence and Boer migration in present-day South Africa move north and settle in what becomes known as Matabeleland.

But wars are won with dissipline, something we are in short supply of these days.

I asked someone about your idea of employing the army, and he said fortunately, that an army is not needed, less will do, much less, but nobody wants to do it apparently. If he is right, I do not know, but he is a veteran, his background is not only talking.

More Zim news sources:
_http://www.zimbabwesituation.com/
_http://www.newzimbabwe.com/index.html
_http://www.zimbabwegazette.com/
_http://www.zimbabwejournalists.com/
_http://www.zimfinalpush1.blogspot.com/ has in between some disturbing pictures and short comments.
Edit: Main page of the above is: _http://www.zimfinalpush.blogspot.com/
_http://www.zimrevyouths.blogspot.com/
Edit: See also: _http://www.thestandard.co.zw
Edit: See also: _http://www.thezimbabwean.co.uk/
Edit: See also: _http://www.hrforumzim.com/frames/inside_frame_member.htm (Human Rights Forum Zimbabwe, list of Members IOne website: _http://wozazimbabwe.org/?p=197 has a picture:

)

Two recent news articles about violence in Zim:
_http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/21/world/africa/21zimbabwe.html?_r=2&ex=1366430400&en=4cf25bb94e81dfbc&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
_http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3045&art_id=vn20080420091510216C901940

About Zim elections I heard that there was a team of South Africans that went to monitor the elections and came back even before final results were released. Everybody but one woman said that the elections had been free and fair. The one, who did not speak up, is usually very outspoken. Why did she not say anything? And my friends said a law had been passed in Zim just before the election, so that a police officer is allowed to be in the voting cell, while the voter is in. I was doubting it and we discussed the system in South Africa, what has been done here to secure votes for the right party. I said that at least the votes in SA were secret, or that was what I assumed. I was corrected that when one goes with ID documents to the place of voting, there is a number attached to ones name which again is attached to the number of the voting ballot. So if someone really wanted to find out later, it would be possible. I hope these are all lies and misunderstandings. But even if they aren't, todays technology would allow to detect it anyway. Now that all emails, cell calls and what have you can be or are monitored, privacy is becoming a myth.



A few biographical data about Mugabe can be found:
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe has

Originally graduating with a Bachelor of Arts degree from the University of Fort Hare in 1951, Mugabe subsequently earned six further degrees through distance learning including a Bachelor of Administration and Bachelor of Education from the University of South Africa and a Bachelor of Science, Bachelor of Laws, Master of Science and Master of Laws, all from the University of London External Programme.[14] The two Law degrees were taken whilst he was in prison, whilst the Master of Science degree was taken during his premiership of Zimbabwe.[15]

I heard that Mugabe also owns or controls mines, in Congo and Rwanda, and should have used his own troops to protect or secure them. This is mentioned by the Wikipedia.
_http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/Robert_Mugabe which has detailed biography.
His life is summarized on: _http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3017678.stm

Born: 1924
Trained as a teacher
1961: Married Ghanaian Sally Hayfron
1964: Imprisoned by Rhodesian government
1980: Wins post-independence elections
1996: Marries Grace Marufu
2000: Loses referendum
2000: Land invasions start
2002: Wins presidential elections, dismissed by western observers
[..]
One of the undoubted achievements of the former teacher's 27 years in power was the expansion of education. Zimbabwe has the highest literacy rate in Africa at 90% of the population.
Political scientist Masipula Sithole once said that by expanding education, the president was "digging his own grave".

The young beneficiaries are now able to analyse Zimbabwe's problems for themselves and most blame government corruption and mismanagement for the lack of jobs and rising prices.
[...]
His second wife, Grace, 40 years his junior, says that he wakes up at 0400 for his daily exercises.

Mr Mugabe was 73 when she gave birth to their third child, Chatunga.

He professes to be a staunch Catholic, and worshippers at Harare's Catholic Cathedral are occasionally swamped by security guards as he turns up for Sunday Mass.

However, Mr Mugabe's beliefs did not prevent him from having two children by Grace, then his secretary, while his popular Ghanaian first wife, Sally, was dying from cancer.
[...]
Although predictions of Mr Mugabe's demise have always proved premature, the increasing strain of recent years has obviously taken its toll and his once-impeccable presentation now looks a little worn.

But if nothing else, Mr Mugabe is an extremely proud man.

He will only step down when his "revolution" is complete.

He says this means the redistribution of white-owned land but he also wants to hand-pick his successor, who must of course come from within the ranks of his Zanu-PF party.
[...]
One of Mr Mugabe's closest associates, Didymus Mutasa, once told the BBC that in Zimbabwean culture, kings are only replaced when they die "and Mugabe is our king".

From someone (a woman) who has actually lived in Zimbabwe, I was informed, that the first attacks on farms took place in the early sixties in Northern Zimbabwe, where she was living at the time, but were mostly done by terrorist/freedom fighters coming from Zambia/North Rhodesia. These first attacks are not mentioned in the otherwise informative historical time line for Zimbabwe under Mugabe: _http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/country_profiles/1831470.stm

There are 15 000 Jewish people left in Zim, I would advise them to return to the promised land as a matter of urgency.

If the promised land is Israel and if I was Jewish, I would look before leaping, and having leaped, keep looking.

(edit: the following sentence refer to information I collected along with the Zim discussion I had.)
Not related to Zim was an explanation of the reasons behind the electricity cuts we suffer in SA these days. Around here it is on the average 10 hours per week during the working hours. Without spelling it out, let me tell you it is mind boggling, absolutely. If I used to have any second thoughts about what I put up in the SA travelogue, they are gone. However it is not that I think one should try to turn the clock backwards or anything like that. No, everything is lessons and evolution, even if in numbers and comfort level it does not look that way. You said it well:

Time is a patient teacher.

And those who watch also learn.

 

[Erna]

It's funny that you would mention Mugabe's wife's influence on him, I have heard that before.

I tried to research an alleged family relationship

There is so much corruption and nepotism in the upper echelons of the ANC, that speculating about possible family relations is actually irrelevant. Our entire government is made up of greedy, unskilled, illiterate, irresponsible crooks. I mean our next president, mr. Zuma, has standard 3 (grade 5) behind his name! He was tried for rape, and during the trial he stands there with a big smile on his face telling his "brothers and sisters" that if you sleep with someone who has AIDS, just take a shower afterwards and you'll be okay. Our politics are a circus. Have you ever watched the parliament channel on TV, where they broadcast live parliament daily? They scream at each other, throw each other with stuff, chase each other out the room...completely barbaric. I mean compare that to British parliament, if someone speaks, everyone else remains quiet until he/she is finished, whether they like what he/she has to say or not.

Back to Mugabe, it is widely speculated that he has sifilis, which certainly explains his behaviour. When you have sifilis, you go crazy, while still appearing normal.

In case they end up with a genocide in Zim, do you have any reason to feel guilty?

Why would I feel guilty? I'm not the one perpetrating these crimes. I can see where you're going with this, and I can see you've been spending way too much time here in the "rainbow nation". Don't let fools impair your good judgement. As long as the "sins of the fathers" excuse stays their scapegoat there will be no way forward. At some point they'll have to start taking responsibility for what goes wrong around here, the colonialists can't bear the brunt forever. All I can say is that if I get my hands on Jan van Riebeeck he's a dead man... ;)

they want to be independent

With independence comes responsibility, a lesson time will teach them, at what cost though time will also tell.

There is only one way forward here, and that is if everyone stops being so damn sensitive, and if we start laughing at ourselves. Stop all these taboo words and taboo topics, and start acting natural. Ignoring certain topics won't erase the past. The past won't go away if we don't speak about it. The list of "illegal" words grows daily, you can barely speak without first censoring the sentence in your head.

I have never seen so much racial tension in South Africa as I'm seeing currently. You can just see the hate in their eyes. Everyone must take a deep breath and stand back...and chill. If you're going to try and find fault in others, you WILL. I can't stress enough that we must get our humour back, somehow. We are not the same and we will never be, but if we approach these differences differently and creatively, with consideration and a little humour, then the battle will be halfway won.

I find it hilarious when English people joke about Afrikaans people's accent, and I'm Afrikaans!

Institute of Afrikaans Accent

Although just for the record, I don't speak English with an Afrikaans accent! HA-HA-HA, but I know many that do. English people laugh when we tease them when they speak Afrikaans, but the moment someone teases with the black people's accent or pronunciation, it's.....racism. I often engage with black people on "taboo" and sacred topics, they are so relieved when the ice is broken and someone actually shows some interest. Once you get them talking they can't stop! Our government is very corrupt, but I do see hope in the people.

We have lost that loving feeling....

Zimbabwean Emigrating To South Africa

Save the comedians, they are endangered!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!