Yugoslavia - What Really Happened

[Arlind]

Slovenia are dear friends, Croatia is "OK, but could be enemy, but its their choice on the end", "Take money of them while they still got their tourism". Your Serbs are OK with you, so Serbs from Serbia are OK too. Bosnia, Serbian part are us, Muslims could be problem, but lets hope its not. Montenegro are brothers. Kosovo, will be stormed when NATO gone and got back to statehood of Serbia, god help anyone who gets in the way, but lets wait on that too. Macedonia, brothers, but poor fellas, everyone is bashing them, hope they will be OK. Bulgaria, backstabbers, never trust them. Romania, brothers. Hungary, friends, but not that dear as Slovenians. Slovakia, cool, get their money. Czech, cool. Poland, "they say that they are similar to us, Serbs. Whaaat, they too are arrogant resourceful thieves like us?

Interestingly revealing of some widely-held (brainwashed for some) sentiments amongst the slavo-gypsy mixed neighbours to the north this thread. Not using the term gypsy as derogatory in the traditional sense here, only because it matters in the context of nations, some here familiar with the Cs material will understand. This up here is not the exception, it is a sentiment running through a strata of that population. I won't go into examples of abhorrent and animalistic behaviour (hooliganism only an aspect of it) of which there many for the purpose of keeping this succinct. And also, this will not negate the reconciliatory effect that most of the 'light-shedding' material in this thread has. But some things need to be highlighted for the neutral and observant.

As the expat with insatiable nationalism I see a humble and accomodating Croat side who speaks with no prejudice and a non-so Serbian side in this, surprisingly accurate, tiny microcosm of the region in the forum.

Serbia (granted it is A 'nationalistic' faction or group of which steer and stirr things up) has been the aggressor in the region, not only during the fall of Yugoslavia, but also historically going back centuries. Those factions fail to understand that what has kept the Illyro-Slavic (Croat) and Illyro-Greek (Albanian) nations of the Western balkans intact (and here I don't mean politically-correct borders as those have been fluid and mostly reperesentative of the region's geopolitics) is the refusal to be 'dominated' or absorbed into religio-political identities. Similar (but with the religio-political card being integrated/ played to their advantage) for the modern Greek nation all the way to Anatolia. Never subdued. Never surrendered. The 300 episode is not a fable and not isolated. Look up the Dorians. NATOs (which I think can still be reclaimed for its bening and balancing power) will come and go but they'll not be able to take (in the real sense of the word) any territory that doesn't belong to them or where people have chosen the course of self-determination.

Edit: I recommend people do their own research, some of it in Laura's work, regarding the Illyric people and the region of Albania and surrounding in the Western Balkans coast. They may have some connections to the region of Eastern Europe/ Slavic, the Caucasus all the way to the Black See but they have been placed quite with a lot of evidence as a Central European Celtic people loosely based around the Hallstatt, Austria area. There's been large migrations into south-eastern Italy and Western Balkans all the way down to the Greek area and even Anatolia.

 

[Arlind]

Oh, and also visit the region (mainly the coast though ) and experience first-hand the rich culture, hospitality (*guests are 'sacred' ), and best-in-the-world food, from the some of most prominent peoples of Eurasian history. Ignore the war-mongering, if it happens and saner leading heads (of the likes of Putin who curiously has compared Kosova seceeding in favour of its Albanian heritage to the Donbass region doing so in favour of its Russian heritage and for practical reasons) don't prevail the rest of Europe won't be immune to it.

 

[Joe]

Edit: I recommend people do their own research, some of it in Laura's work, regarding the Illyric people and the region of Albania and surrounding in the Western Balkans coast. They may have some connections to the region of Eastern Europe/ Slavic, the Caucasus all the way to the Black See but they have been placed quite with a lot of evidence as a Central European Celtic people loosely based around the Hallstatt, Austria area. There's been large migrations into south-eastern Italy and Western Balkans all the way down to the Greek area and even Anatolia.

At the end of the day, who cares? And if some do, for what reason? What is the reason to try to dig up some "illustrious" genetic past and tie yourself to it and then proclaim it for all to see?

Is it for some kind of self-aggrandizement or superiority complex you've got going on?

Also, where did you get the massive chip on your shoulder about Albanians, where you appear to be super primed to react to anyone you suspect might be even thinking about Albanians in a negative light?

I seriously doubt you actually care about the truth at all. All you seem to care about it crafting some kind of awesome history for the "Albanians", and identifying yourself as "one of them" and then basking in the reflected "glow" of that manufactured, delusional "identity". It's pretty sad actually, and your apparent inability to see that for what it is, and to control yourself, suggests you really aren't a good fit for this forum.

 

[Nević Nenad]

Interestingly revealing of some widely-held (brainwashed for some) sentiments amongst the slavo-gypsy mixed neighbours to the north this thread. Not using the term gypsy as derogatory in the traditional sense here, only because it matters in the context of nations, some here familiar with the Cs material will understand. This up here is not the exception, it is a sentiment running through a strata of that population. I won't go into examples of abhorrent and animalistic behaviour (hooliganism only an aspect of it) of which there many for the purpose of keeping this succinct. And also, this will not negate the reconciliatory effect that most of the 'light-shedding' material in this thread has. But some things need to be highlighted for the neutral and observant.

As the expat with insatiable nationalism I see a humble and accomodating Croat side who speaks with no prejudice and a non-so Serbian side in this, surprisingly accurate, tiny microcosm of the region in the forum.

Serbia (granted it is A 'nationalistic' faction or group of which steer and stirr things up) has been the aggressor in the region, not only during the fall of Yugoslavia, but also historically going back centuries. Those factions fail to understand that what has kept the Illyro-Slavic (Croat) and Illyro-Greek (Albanian) nations of the Western balkans intact (and here I don't mean politically-correct borders as those have been fluid and mostly reperesentative of the region's geopolitics) is the refusal to be 'dominated' or absorbed into religio-political identities. Similar (but with the religio-political card being integrated/ played to their advantage) for the modern Greek nation all the way to Anatolia. Never subdued. Never surrendered. The 300 episode is not a fable and not isolated. Look up the Dorians. NATOs (which I think can still be reclaimed for its bening and balancing power) will come and go but they'll not be able to take (in the real sense of the word) any territory that doesn't belong to them or where people have chosen the course of self-determination.

Edit: I recommend people do their own research, some of it in Laura's work, regarding the Illyric people and the region of Albania and surrounding in the Western Balkans coast. They may have some connections to the region of Eastern Europe/ Slavic, the Caucasus all the way to the Black See but they have been placed quite with a lot of evidence as a Central European Celtic people loosely based around the Hallstatt, Austria area. There's been large migrations into south-eastern Italy and Western Balkans all the way down to the Greek area and even Anatolia.

My reaction on your writing:

 

[Arlind]

Also, where did you get the massive chip on your shoulder about Albanians, where you appear to be super primed to react to anyone you suspect might be even thinking about Albanians in a negative light?

I seriously doubt you actually care about the truth at all. All you seem to care about it crafting some kind of awesome history for the "Albanians", and identifying yourself as "one of them" and then basking in the reflected "glow" of that manufactured, delusional "identity". It's pretty sad actually, and your apparent inability to see that for what it is, and to control yourself, suggests you really aren't a good fit for this forum.

It's a perceived threat based on historical context from an Albanian perspective (delusional coupled with the 'identity' according to you) and respect for ancestors and the modern inhabitants very real plight that motivates me. I don't doubt self-importance plays a role (by extension, as I'm nobody but my peope do inherit, by genetics and the culture, traits of the forefathers of that land), but it is not what defines this. Anyway you're right, me (and my overly emotional identification) and this forum are incompatible as things stand. I do take in a lot of what you are all saying and still processing it.

 

[Z...]

Interestingly revealing of some widely-held (brainwashed for some) sentiments amongst the slavo-gypsy mixed neighbours to the north this thread. Not using the term gypsy as derogatory in the traditional sense here, only because it matters in the context of nations, some here familiar with the Cs material will understand. This up here is not the exception, it is a sentiment running through a strata of that population. I won't go into examples of abhorrent and animalistic behaviour (hooliganism only an aspect of it) of which there many for the purpose of keeping this succinct. And also, this will not negate the reconciliatory effect that most of the 'light-shedding' material in this thread has. But some things need to be highlighted for the neutral and observant.

What a fine word salad.
None of this makes any sense.
And since you mentioned gypsies although I have no idea why - it should be said that historically speaking gypsies or Roma people played much more important role in shaping Albanian society than any of its northern neighbours.
See here for reference

The Lives of Albanian “Çengies” - Global History Dialogues

Introduction Many myths, prejudices, and mysteries surround the lives of “çengies” in Albania. Even the word “çengie” itself is accompanied by

globalhistorydialogues.org

As the expat with insatiable nationalism I see a humble and accomodating Croat side who speaks with no prejudice and a non-so Serbian side in this, surprisingly accurate, tiny microcosm of the region in the forum.

Interesting choice of words - insatiable?
I think you fail to understand that average Croatian looks down on Albanians as much as any Serb or Bosnian or Macedonian or Montenegrin - don’t let me even start on Slovenians in this regard.
However Albanians are very useful to Croats when they quibble with Serbs. Do not mistake this for love.
If you don’t believe me look at the rate of integration of Albanians in Croatia. They still have to import their brides from Kosovo or Albania.
Which apparently is not a big deal because Albania is probably the only European country left where arranged marriages are still accepted and common as well as “bride purchase”.

Serbia (granted it is A 'nationalistic' faction or group of which steer and stirr things up) has been the aggressor in the region, not only during the fall of Yugoslavia, but also historically going back centuries. Those factions fail to understand that what has kept the Illyro-Slavic (Croat) and Illyro-Greek (Albanian) nations of the Western balkans intact (and here I don't mean politically-correct borders as those have been fluid and mostly reperesentative of the region's geopolitics) is the refusal to be 'dominated' or absorbed into religio-political identities. Similar (but with the religio-political card being integrated/ played to their advantage) for the modern Greek nation all the way to Anatolia. Never subdued. Never surrendered. The 300 episode is not a fable and not isolated. Look up the Dorians.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. But this is understandable since you spent most of your life out of Balkan and were fed nationalistic delusions instead of proper historical facts.

NATOs (which I think can still be reclaimed for its bening and balancing power)

Your cognitive dissonance when it comes to NATO is astounding.

 

[Joe]

I think you fail to understand that average Croatian looks down on Albanians as much as any Serb or Bosnian or Macedonian or Montenegrin - don’t let me even start on Slovenians in this regard.

I already noted how Arlind's attitude is a lot like the Zionist's attitude. Regarding the above, there's another parallel: since so many people have the impression that Albanians are untrustworthy people (in general), maybe Arlind (as one of them) should do what many advise the Jews to do: ask themselves why so many people are antagonistic towards them. A bit of introspection goes a long way.

 

[Joe]

NATOs (which I think can still be reclaimed for its bening and balancing power)

Funniest thing I've heard this century.

 

[Arlind]

Interesting histerics here and on the other thread. @Joe let's not open the can of worms that is Irish untrustworthiness. I've worked with quite a few. We have a thing called Besa which none of the Slavs north of us can come close to having as part of their make-up.

Zionist attitude. Ah.. you poor bugger, you have spent so much time behind that satire-creating screen of yours that you have lost touch with reality.

My z friend you are holed-up in a fantasy and I suspect soon you'll have that blasted in your face very hard. Slovenia is a f-cking village that nobody cares about while Bosnia is a hot, bloodied mess thanks to your backstabbing people. Croats call us brothers far quicker than we call them friends and Montenegrins, they tend to act based on whatever is favourable to them at that particular moment. Macedonians.. who? You mean that made-up ethnicity/ country completely devoid of any real Macedon links. I have lived, travelled and experienced the balkans enough for 100 of your types.

One thing that none of you realize, being isolated in your communes and/ or respective close-minded countries is that Albanians are respected and called brothers by people from countries spanning from Central Asia/ ME to SW Europe to NE Europe. That has been my and the people's around me experience, surpisingly massively befriended, for a deluded and untrustworthy group.

 

[Nević Nenad]

@Arlind

In a more serious note, the fact is that we actually don't find stuff you are writing here important. We don't care for that. Its waste of time, and you are tedious and boring.


Yes, we are Croats, Serbs, Germans, Russians, Ukrainians, Americans . . . but we don't care for that. Its very easy for us to put all that aside.


I asure you, any Croat, Serb, whatever, person from this forum wouldn't think bad or do anything bad to any other Croat, Serb or anyone else in real life, not to mention people from this forum.


There is no use of "nationality" in personal growth. And this is forum about that, among and first of other things. NO ONE IS SPECIAL, in any way.


We can, from time to time, discuss questions on nationality, nationalism, DNA, and all that, BUT only in some specific context related to work here, or as a mere curiosity. Not as the main topic.


Couple of words on your Albania thing. Our world works in cycles. Notice, not circles, but cycles. Which plainly said means that everything happens in its time and space. The time for making social constructs known as "nationalities" and "national states" was in 19th century. Your "Albanians" missed it by some 150 years, sorry. Even if you are right (hardly unlikely) for the rest of the world its long gone and forgotten. No one cares.


So called "your people" is used by probably most nefarious groups in this short history of the mankind, for probably the most nefarious purposes. At the end, in your place, I wouldn't be so eager to identify myself with them.


Seems that you really are in a wrong bar.

 

[Joe]

We don't care for that. Its waste of time, and you are tedious and boring.

Yes, you are very, very boring.

 

[Joe]

One thing that none of you realize, being isolated in your communes and/ or respective close-minded countries is that Albanians are respected and called brothers by people from countries spanning from Central Asia/ ME to SW Europe to NE Europe.

You keep missing an important point. NO ONE CARES.

 

[Joe]

That has been my and the people's around me experience, surpisingly massively befriended, for a deluded and untrustworthy group.

You keep missing an important point. NO ONE CARES.

 

[Joe]

It's a perceived threat based on historical context from an Albanian perspective (delusional coupled with the 'identity' according to you) and respect for ancestors and the modern inhabitants very real plight that motivates me.

ok, thanks for explaining that. But you should know that that kind of screwed up mentality doesn't fit here.

Also, we don't care.

I don't doubt self-importance plays a role (by extension, as I'm nobody but my peope do inherit, by genetics and the culture, traits of the forefathers of that land), but it is not what defines this.

NO ONE CARES.

Anyway you're right, me (and my overly emotional identification) and this forum are incompatible as things stand. I do take in a lot of what you are all saying and still processing it.

No, you don't. You've shown yourself incapable of doing that.

 

[Arlind]

Joe, you've shown a particular richness of 'character' here, with some character-less responses. Youy might want to do a little bit of reflecting on the topic.