Zoroastrianism a Paleolithic Religion, Origin of Monotheism, Salvation Theology?


Padawan Learner
My post above - Not much stuff on the Rig Veda

Okay, so i searched instead for 'Vedas' and got a partial answer in session of 12 Aug 1995:-

August 12, 1995
Direct Channeling with Frank, Laura, SV

The usual caveats about the direct channeling sessions apply though this was one of the better ones.

Trance induced.

Q: Are you ready to receive questions?

A: Yes.

[Suggestions given for clarity of communication.]

Q: (L) Do you have any messages to give S or myself at this time?

A: No.

Q: (L) Okay. Then we’ll get to our questions. My first question is: What is the source of the Vedas? The Hindu system of philosophy?

A: There is more than one source.

Q: (L) What is the general source, positive or...?

A: A very vague question.

Q: (L) Was it a group of people that put them together over centuries, or was it channeled information, or...?

A: It came into being as a result of meditation.

Q: (L) And what race of people was responsible for this information?

A: Caucasian.

Q: (L) What period of time were the Vedas received.

A: Varying bits and pieces of information which later was organized into packages labeled as it is.

Q: (L) From what realm did this meditated information issue?

A: The realm of the subconscious mind.

Q: (L) Are any of the Vedas information that was given to man by extra-terrestrials?

A: Not as you would define it.

Q: (L) From what types of beings, or what level of density did this information issue from?

A: Third.

Q: (L) Can you give us anything more on that in a general sense?

A: If you ask.

Q: (L) What is the percentage of accuracy of the information given in the Vedas? Overall?

A: Accurate at what level?

Q: (L) Third Density.

A: Accurate to what extent and in what way?

Q: (L) Well, in a general sense, as a way of living one's life and perceiving the universe.

A: That's an extremely difficult question to answer as accuracy in determining such things as perceiving the universe and living one's life is entirely open to interpretation as anyone can resolve accuracy by relating to the parallel universe which is appropriate for the information given. And, as we have stated in the past, it is possible to create parallel universes through thought energy, and once they are created naturally, they correspond naturally to the interpretation given for them.

Q: (L) Is there any benefit to be obtained through the use of mantras?

A: Especially when the mind says there is. Remember, most all power necessary for altering reality and physicality is contained within the belief center of the mind. This is something you will understand more closely when you reach 4th density reality where physicality is no longer a prison, but is instead, your home, for you to alter as you please. In your current state, you have the misinterpretation of believing that reality is finite and therein lies your difficulty with finite physical existence. We are surprised that you are still not able to completely grasp this concept.

Q: (L) Well, I think I have a good grasp of this concept, but I am asking questions to obtain answers for others to comprehend.

A: That is not being completely honest.

Still, the C's need to be probed further . . . including the Vedic-Zoroastrian link . . .


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Since Laura is now interested in following this Zoroastrianism research, I thought I should mention one interesting thing. Several years ago, one person recommended to me that I should read a book 'God Speaks' by Meher Baba. I started reading it and quickly realized that it's the worst piece of literature I saw in my life, to say the least.

But one thing that made me very curious was his description of evolution of the soul, which sounds very similar to the description that Laura got from C's, except that he was not describing it in hyperdimensional terms. I wondered about that and came to the conclusion that he most probably got it from somebody else. Supposedly, he had several teachers which you can find on Wikipedia. But I never investigated that further because I was too busy reading other things.

Well, in the meantime, somebody made an article on Wikipedia, so you can see what I'm talking about. There is even a graphical presentation of his theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involution_(Meher_Baba)



FOTCM Member
FWIW, Equivalence of Mithraic Tauroctony and Cippus of Horus scenes

Image Above - Mithraic Tauroctony (Roman, circa 0 AD, left) and Cippus of Horus scene (Egyptian, New Dynasty, 1st millennium BC and earlier)

The Mithraic Tauroctony scene (above left) has fascinated scholars for hundreds of years (see here). The origin of Mithraism and the meaning of its symbolism has proven to be a tricky problem. Early ideas centred on its origin in Persia in the 2nd or 3rd millennium BC, because of the dress-code of Mithras and because bull-slaying is a known theme of Persian Zoroastrianism (the primordial bull is slain by Ahriman, who perhaps becomes Mithras in ancient Rome).

However, more recently the astronomical interpretation of David Ulansey, an American Professor of comparative mythology at Princeton, has gained favour. He interprets the scene as a change of age, from the age of Taurus into the age of Aries. Therefore, the scene displays knowledge of precession of the equinoxes. Familiar symbols support his view, as the Tauroctony scene normally includes a serpent (interpreted as hydra) and a scorpion (obviously Scorpius, representing the autumn equinox). Accordingly, the date referenced is around 2000 BC, to within a few hundred years, when Taurus represents the spring equinox. However, to make this scheme work, Ulansey suggests the equatorial constellations, rather then the usual zodiacal constellations, are used. Therefore, Hydra represents the summer solstice. To ensure the serpent is reliably identified as the Hydra constellation, a crow (representing Corvus) is often present.

Ulansey takes the conventional view that Hipparchus discovered precession, and therefore Mithraism follows this discovery chronologically. This also influences his interpretation of Mithraism as a relatively modern Roman mystery religion born in the 1st or 2nd century BC. Accordingly, Mithras is seen as an all-powerful creator god who controls time, and he doubts the link to any earlier (e.g. Persian) religion.

While I agree with much of Ulansey's thesis, his assumption about the discovery of precession by Hipparchus, and therefore the relatively modern status of Mithraism, is now known to be incorrect. Indeed, I suspect both these earlier views of Mithraism are largely correct and can be combined, i.e. Mithraism is an adaption of a much older religion that also used precession of the equinoxes symbolically to represent a golden age circa 3000 to 2500 BC.

In fact, I have previously shown how the Cippus of Horus scene (above right) essentially describes a similar scene, or at least a similar date, using precession of the equinoxes. This scene was popular in later dynasties of Ancient Egypt. However, the Cippus of Horus scene uses zodiacal, rather than equatorial constellations, and all four of the constellations are used. Therefore, we can equate the Mithraic bull with the Egyptian crocodile (Taurus, spring) and the Mithraic serpent with the Egyptian lion (hydra/Leo, summer). The scorpion (autumn) is the same in both scenes.

Finally, the Cippus of Horus scene includes an ibex/gazelle, representing Aquarius for the winter solstice. There doesn't seem to be an equivalent symbol in the Tauroctony, unless, that is, we re-interpret the dog as a fox, which we know from Gobekli Tepe can represent the northern part of Aquarius. But this looks to be too much of a stretch in most cases.


FOTCM Member
Mary Settegast presents a case for putting the time of Zarathustra around 6300BC, which she says was the time of the agricultural revolution. Within a short period of time a vast region turned towards sedentary life and that of farming. She says that Zarathustra got rid of the warrior class and that to worship God was to cultivate the land and make it fruitful. The role of the priests/followers of Zarathustra was to bring knowledge about plant breeding, animal husbandry, irrigation techniques etc.

It sounds as if he was a reformer like Paul after him, who was trying to right the wrongs and put the human cosmic connection in focus.

According to Settegast then some of the problems of dating Zarathustra might have arisen due to it also becoming a title like a high priest (p. 214). If that was the case, then Pythagoras might well have been taught by a person going by the name/title Zarathustra, as was mentioned earlier in the thread without it being the founder of the religion.

Below a few excerpt from Plato, Prehistorian:

The historical situation of Zarathustra, on the other hand, called for the healing of the Good Creation itself, for restoration of faith in the inherent sanctity of the material world. He too saw the cosmos as the work of the divine architect, but Zarathustra advocated the perfecting of the earth as well as the individual, through man’s collaboration with that creator. The way to God for his own inner circle of disciples is therefore likely to have been rather more active than contemplative, and centered on an intimated knowledge of the transformative possibilities in all nature, not merely one’s own. Historians of religion have in fact commented on the emphasis the prophet placed on the religious value of accurate knowledge of this world: (Pay attention to objective reality and gain knowledge and awareness).

To be sure, it is not a matter of abstract science in the modern sense of the term, but of a creative thought that discovers and at the same time creates the structures of the world and the universe of values that is their correlative.
(p. 268)

Midway in the course of history Zarathustra came to offer (or to remind men of) the opportunity to collaborate in the work of redemption, in the restoration of perfection toward which all creation is striving.(222)

The prayer, “may we be those who will renew this existence,” is seen as an indication that Zarathustra’s followers also believed that the crisis would come in their own time, allowing them personally to contribute to the triumph of Ahura Mazda over evil. (223)

The following sentence made me think of Paul and the book “Paul’s necessary sin”:

“He who cultivates corn cultivates righteousness”(p. 259).

It is likely that Zarathustra had an awakening experience like Paul and thought of ways to pass it on so that others would also start to gain this awakening of consciousness that then would guide them. Creating an active relationship with God via being a good steward of the land and making it fruitful was perhaps his way towards awakening people to this inner guiding feeling and to develop virtues. As I read the word “righteousness” in the sentence above, I thought of Timothy Ashworth and translation. Was something lost in the translation from the original language into English due to the lack of words in the English language regarding such words as righteousness?

In any event, the prophet is generally credited with being the first to teach that each man must bear the responsibility for the fate of his own soul, as well as share in the responsibility for the fate of the world. (or as JP would say, clean up your room, do something with your life, take responsibility, become a better person).

Faithful to this vision of man as God’s ally, and to the basic monotheism of the Gathas, was Zarathustra’s replacement of personified gods by qualities of the person. The Entities or Amesha Spentas (Holy Immortals) that surround Ahura Mazda are at once divine and human: Vohu Manah (Good Thought), Asha(Right Order), Khshathra (Sovereign Power), Haurvatat (Immortality), Ameretat (Wholeness or Integrity), and Armaiti (Right-Mindedness or Humility). Aspects of Ahura, they are also virtues of the perfected man. By cultivating these qualities in himself, the individual could realize his own likeness to the divine, and, as each Entity was to be associated with the protection of some particular aspect of creation (Haurvatat, water; Ameretat, plants), his commitment to the stewardship of the earth – one of the principal tenets of the Zoroastrian religion – was secured as well. (p.221)

As one scholar saw it, Zarathustra “abolished the worship of Time or Fate,” concentrating instead of man’s active participation in the struggle between the creative and destructive spirits. (p.216)

This ties up with the idea from the C’s that the struggle is through us, that we are not separate from this but that it is played out in us.

Zarathustra did not believe in cyclical time but in linear time (p.222). Perhaps a reaction to the times he was living in.

Settegast does a great job in her two books on the subject and documenting all the movements and and changes in the region. She would have benefitted from some insight into catastrophism and cometary impacts, where Sweetman does a better job regarding the subject. That knowledge was not that known or accepted at the time when she wrote the first book.


FOTCM Member
We got to delve into Zoroaster's times, teachings and great influence in the latest MindMatters show, with a follow-up and fleshing out of this subject in a part 2 show coming next week.

And we'd like to thank you all for tuning in as the MindMatters YT channel continues to grow, bit by bit, with all the great support we've been receiving from you!

MindMatters: Zoroastrianism: The Ancient System of Values That Sought to Change The World, And Did

More than several millennia ago, a spiritual leader in Persia had a very high vision and ideal for humanity that he labored to preach and spread. In what is now known as Iran, this priest and reformer - who we know as Zarathustra (or Zoroaster) - began with a strong conception of both good and evil, and man's choice to be a manifestation of either. He saw this choice, and the awareness of it as a choice - as not only crucial to the future of his tribe and his countrymen, but to the well being of the world at large. Along with this very basic but essential concept was Zoroaster's advocacy for man's connection and respect for nature, a cohesive society, and reverence for a higher cosmological order.

Considering Zoroastrianism's huge influence and widespread appeal, and the two thousand or more years that it helped lift up the ancient world, what can be said of its impact on other of the world's ancient religions? And perhaps more importantly, what religious, social and cultural ideas does Zoroastrianism teach that we may benefit from today? This week on MindMatters we discuss these and several other features of this ancient religion, that though mostly lost to this time, could not be more timely.



FOTCM Member
Here's the part 2 show on Zoroastrianism. We hope ya'll enjoy it!

MindMatters: Zarathustra Returns! What We Can Learn From The Persian Prophet

Everything old is new again. Or it can be, if we let it. Though several thousand years old, the teachings and guidance for making the right decisions - in all things - can be seen in the words and ideas of Zoroaster, and the writings that grew out of his movement. Seeking to give individuals a view of their place in the grand scheme of life, and acknowledging the part that man has in manifesting a higher order of thought and action - was the 'mission' of the profoundly influential prophet.

In MindMatters' continued discussion of Zarathustra and the religion known as Zoroastrianism, we examine just what this leading figure of antiquity sought to do. And just how far-reaching and relevant his concepts became. We also take a look at Zoroaster's pre-Christian eschatology or his take on what an 'end times' was really about - among several other concepts that informed the world's great monotheistic religions to come. Sometimes we have to look back at things to take a step forwards; what things might we take in about this ancient teaching that would assist us in just such an effort? It turns out there is a lot to learn from Zoroastrianism's cosmology and its framework for the moral uplifting of the world.


Tuatha de Danaan

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I really enjoyed the presentation.
Thank you very much. Having read IN SEARCH OF ZARATHUSTRA and WHEN ZARATHUSTRA SPOKE. your inclusion of other books on the prophet really opened up and fleshed out my understanding. It becomes so obvious. that certain essential truths have, seemingly, always existed. These truths,although certainly always present, became bogged down and hidden under dogma and plain human ignorance.

Really looking forward to your show on ST. PAUL. I have read PAUL'S NECESSARY SIN. I've read it on Kindle so struggled with that format. I'm going to buy the book as I feel much more comfortable with a book in my hand.
I also found Ashworth's comparisions with 2 other translators a bit too much information for me and really distracted me and just seemed to break up the flow. No one else has complained of this so just shows my failings as a reader. When I get the book I'm going to miss these sections out and stick to his reasonings. which are so revealing.
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