War in Israel-Palestine - October 2023
- Thread starter Puma
- Start date
I think we're meant to see things as they are, call them what they are, while at the same time not getting so invested in an outcome that, when that outcome doesn't happen, we just want to drop the whole thing and walk away. It's a difficult balance to achieve.
ziutek
Jedi Master
All of my acquaintances with whom I have managed to strike up a conversation on this subject condemn Israel's conduct. Despite the fact that almost none of them knew the history of the creation of this "state".
I don't know how it is among your acquaintances.
That's why I think people react with a kind of numbness, as if they don't believe what they see and read about. I too am accompanied by these feelings and as if I were watching some macabre movie.
There is no choice but to learn and call a spade a spade.
Because if people suddenly rose up and wanted to do order with the psychos then the victims would have to be counted in tens if not hundreds of millions.
Simply from our position nothing can be done about it.
We will not save others. Everyone can only do it themselves.
As Nagual Don Juan once said to Castaneda:
" Carlos, this show is for you ...".
I think our destiny is to make it to the end of this show in one piece and holding hands with some brothers.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
I don't know how it is among your acquaintances.
That's why I think people react with a kind of numbness, as if they don't believe what they see and read about. I too am accompanied by these feelings and as if I were watching some macabre movie.
There is no choice but to learn and call a spade a spade.
Because if people suddenly rose up and wanted to do order with the psychos then the victims would have to be counted in tens if not hundreds of millions.
Simply from our position nothing can be done about it.
We will not save others. Everyone can only do it themselves.
As Nagual Don Juan once said to Castaneda:
" Carlos, this show is for you ...".
I think our destiny is to make it to the end of this show in one piece and holding hands with some brothers.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
Mytja
Jedi Master
Can't say for sure, but neither "situation" nor "humanity at large" seem to really be 'responsible' for the "frustration".
Apart from our own selves, like beliefs, ignorance, stuborness etc. for example, maybe more suitable targets might be real psychopaths and those that work/operate through them? Don't know, but being angry with programmed and mostly enslaved fellow humans who still need more suffering to be able to open their eyes, somehow seems quite off the mark, if there would be any appropriate mark to speak about that is.
Mytja
Jedi Master
ApotheosisMMC.
Jedi Council Member
To what they have said, I will add something in case it helps you weigh other nuances:
There is a lot to reflect and weigh, remember that the nonexistence of Hamas is practically impossible because it is a product that serves the purposes of Israel and created by it, if it got out of control it is simply because they played with fire-desirous thinking.
Of course, Hamas was the one that "reactivated the war", but let's not forget that Israel let the Hamas attack take place and made it seem like it was even bigger, if it hadn't been today it would have been tomorrow, it was inevitable... Now I think about the hyperdimensional factor, will there be some control and influence on pathological individuals within the militias?... I would bet so (in the case of Israel it is unnecessary to ask about this) but there are other individuals among the ranks of Hamas, no. so deviant that they are trying to get by and survive the extermination or at least that is the idea that moves them, there are too many factors to ask humanity in general to react in a "correct" or perfect way to the kidnapping of hostages and other factors, remember that the masses are ignorant of many of the issues that we deal with here... I only feel pity for them, it is difficult for us; Imagine for them, due to how lost they are and the little information they have to be able to choose what to do, there are cycles within cycles and no matter how much the psychopaths and their masters insist on pursuing their goals, they do nothing but accelerate these cycles... that's why the importance of being detached and understanding what the general reality of humanity is and what can be demanded or asked of it, this is an endless fight, it will stop when it has to stop... and well , that's fine if you look at it in a higher way...
Israel will not stop, Hamas if it does it on the other hand will not stop anything, even knowing its origin and purpose of creation, what would be "more good"?, than the Palestinians be exterminated quickly or more "slowly" due to resistance? If this escalates as many want due to the horrors of Israel, could there be more horror? Of course and that is what stops action, since the forces that They support or are against what Israel is doing, they are armed and at the same time it is likely that there will still come a point where this escalates... I take more and more seriously that we are murderers and suicides, I would like to wish that everything would go away Well for me and for the rest, I would like to imagine scenarios where maybe I don't have to kill, I think that maybe those lessons are unnecessary for me at this point, but still, I do the exercise and I wonder if I should do it? Will I have to? sufficient insight; even with the "extra information" that I handle? Would I let the rest die because of my doubt or if I break?... interesting questions, let the universe in its wisdom take care of it, impossible to judge this and humanity,
They will do what they will do.
Evan
Jedi Council Member
A age old question: What are my karmic repercussions if I kill an intruder who threatens my family’s safety/lives? I recall a session where that was discussed and answered, but I don’t have the search or data recall mastery of an @MJF or @Natus Videre 
I’m pretty sure that it’s in here somewhere. And to what scale does that extend in theory?
I’m pretty sure that it’s in here somewhere. And to what scale does that extend in theory?
Yes, perhaps what you want is for the situation to cease to exist, in that sense trying to see the conciliatory position seems more reasonable.
Like you said, the situation won't stop because this isn't a war, it is not a conflict even, it's the massacre of prisoners by the prison owners, and the prisoners doing the only thing they can about a situation that, as you rightly point out, will not change. So, they can either sit there and not be violent or do something about it, go down swinging type situation. What would you do?
The analogy offered by most media outlets is wrong, they call it escalation in violence, war, conflict. It's not.
The closest thing I have come up with is. Imagine you live in your house, with your family, wife and kids, grandparents and pets. Your neighborhood is ruled by a gang, who won't let you leave your house to go get a job, and won't let anyone come visit you, so you're stuck . Periodically, these gang members come into your house, trash your place, beat up and abuse your wife, shoot your dog, and smack you around, cut your water and electricity, and leave, a few months later they do it again.. and like this for as long as you can remember.
One day, they allow one of your kids to push back and punch or stab one of the members of the gang that they never really liked, so the gang goes out and tells everyone that because of your terrorist kid, they're going to set your house on fire with you inside it, and its your fault if you want to defend yourself.
What would you do in that situation? You'd probably grow violent.
Israel is killing people whom they consider to be their property because they want to, period (I know there's a lot more going on but still). The history of Palestine and Israel did not begin on October 7th 2023. So it isn't "if Hamas wasn't so evil then Israel wouldn't be forced to be so evil right back". Israel is the aggressor.
I understand the principle that violence begets violence, but so does passivity in the presence of violent injustice, it turns equanimity into perpetuating abuse. And sometimes violence is the correct answer. There's dozens of examples this decade alone, Russia doesn't grow violent, it gets invaded by NATO, Syria doesn't get violent, it gets run over by NATO.
If Palestine is a microcosm of planetary injustice and murder conducted by villainous henchmen in power, coupled with their books of abject racist policies, deception, control with plenty of supporters, and it is, the macro may also inevitably share in the former. Think covid lockdowns, with plenty of state sponsored bludgeoning, imprisonment and forced compliance utilizing coercion and outright lies. With their media in-tow piling on, with stark social divisions a result - families against families. With curfews, forced experimental jabs (oh, and Israel controllers were high on their horse with that modus against their very own Jewish population), with complete town, city and state control of citizen assembly and movement, and lets allow for state child abuse ad nauseam, this has all been a mere watered down taste of what Palestine have endured for such a long while.
So, the deep down Hamas/ Shamas:
Like the creation of ISIS or the 19 Arabs with Boxcutters, and daresay the Syrian savour White Helmets, the sound bits indeed play to the masses. The ptb then rolled out a makeover of Putin - the new stamped and approved front page global whipping boy, to help mirror western transgressions and lies. Simply put, Israel needed an enemy on October 7th to help sooth the anger that would be sure to come their way. Thus, on that date, low and behold the Four Horsemen made a prison break right on time, with Israel's complete raison d'être in hand to counter with a colossus of bombs and heartlessness. Children dead by the score.
The Neo-Uki proxy zealots first hung, burned and then engage a genocide upon the people of Donesk and Donbass. The results are known, the retaliation is now well into history, and not over. The zealots in Israel have also dragged along their own to take part in a genocide, it can't be called anything else. It is what is, and it does not take a lot of decrement to call it as it is.
Pacifism seems like a position worthy of respect, especially when it is genuine and consistent. But sometimes we tend to hide our true thoughts and feelings behind the noble facade. We tend to hide them even from ourselves and prefer to live in illusions, because truth may be too painful or scary to accept. Not saying that it's your case, but let me just give a couple of examples to illustrate what I mean.
When Russia-Ukraine war started, many Russian liberal intelligentsia (famous artists, journalists and the like) emigrated to Israel, because they "cannot live in a country which is at war with her neighbors". Their social media accounts were full of anti-war slogans, they presented themselves as pacifists who are just against the war in general. Needless to say that they blamed Russia for the war.
And then the Israel-Palestine war began. Have they posted at least a single anti-war slogan since then? Nope. Because you know, that's a different case, "Israel has the right to defend itself" and all that. And even in the face of unspeakable atrocities against the civillian population of Gaza, they all have been silent. Talk about the true value of their pacifism.
One could think that's because they are very loyal to Israel, but in reality they left Israel just as quickly as they left Russia. Now they are staying in the UK, US, Cyprus, Dubai, Latvia and posting their words of support for the Israeli army.
For their vocally anti-Russian position and support of Ukraine, they have been officially declared foreign agents in Russia. All their public appearances (concerts, lectures, etc.) are banned, so they cannot make money in Russia anymore. And in the West, they are not well-known, hence their income drastically reduced. Some are already begging Russia to forgive them. So that's where their illusory pacifism brought them.
In Israel, the majority of population live in illusions right now, it seems. From their point of view, their "right to defend themselves" means they can literally flatten Gaza killing thousands of civilians along the way. What they fail to see, is that their actions are recognized by the rest of the world as genocide.
Another Israeli illusion is that they can continue torturing Gaza without consequences. They think their nuclear weapons and/or NATO will protect them. Russia also has nuclear weapons, has it prevented the war against Russia? No. Has NATO won the war in Ukraine? No.
I think Israelis should wake up from their illusions and realise:
1) they are a tiny country on a tiny piece of land with a tiny polutation;
2) they are surrounded by way bigger and stronger Arab/Muslim countries whose patience is not eternal;
3) NATO and/or nuclear weapons won't defend Israel once their neighbors decide that enough is enough.
If Israel and its citizens don't realize these simple truths asap, the consequences of their illusions may be very dire.
You directed your frustration at "humanity at large", but this makes it abstract and relativizes it, it makes the atrocities disappear from view and unanalyzable, incomprehensible.
If someone mugs you and kills your children, it's not "humanity" that's to blame, but the mugger and murderer, and those who condone him.
Your frustration should be directed at Israel: its politicians, its people who overwhelmingly are in favor of its crimes and believe its lies, its culture, its history, its normalized barbarism. In fact, "humanity" looks pretty good compared to that.
onemen
Jedi
maybe part of the answer is that the karmic lesson/life plan outcome of the intruder is to be killed somehowA age old question: What are my karmic repercussions if I kill an intruder who threatens my family’s safety/lives? I recall a session where that was discussed and answered, but I don’t have the search or data recall mastery of an @MJF or @Natus Videre
I don't think we should be afraid to take a stand. In the case of this genocide, we have to say NO. And look at what Israel has done since 1948 (this is important), what it is doing now and what it will do in the future.
We must not be afraid to say NO NO NO. And don't be afraid to feel the shame of what's happening, the horror of what's happening, don't be afraid to feel the powerlessness, the helplessness. And above all, don't be afraid to feel love for the Palestinians. To love the Palestinians is to love humanity and to take that humanity inside us and feel that we are part of that humanity.
And when a Palestinian child is murdered, it is, symbolically, my child who has just been killed. It's like that in all the wars that humanity has lived through, and all those that humanity will live through again, but now we're witnessing a genocide, and when a Palestinian child is murdered it hurts. And I feel the same way when I see Jewish children in the death camps during the Second World War.
It's a no. And I refuse to accept nuances. There is no place for nuances in this situation.
What can I do in the face of all this? In the face of this pain, this wound, this madness? Pray, cry, feel sorrow and at the same time thank the Universe that we are capable of saying NO, that I am capable of loving again. That I am able to look at the destruction of Gaza my eyes very open, my eyes clean.
As HARRISON KOEHLI says so well in one of his magnificent articles: "I think that the dark and light battle is starting to be very easily perceived and it requires you to line up."
We must not be afraid to say NO NO NO. And don't be afraid to feel the shame of what's happening, the horror of what's happening, don't be afraid to feel the powerlessness, the helplessness. And above all, don't be afraid to feel love for the Palestinians. To love the Palestinians is to love humanity and to take that humanity inside us and feel that we are part of that humanity.
And when a Palestinian child is murdered, it is, symbolically, my child who has just been killed. It's like that in all the wars that humanity has lived through, and all those that humanity will live through again, but now we're witnessing a genocide, and when a Palestinian child is murdered it hurts. And I feel the same way when I see Jewish children in the death camps during the Second World War.
It's a no. And I refuse to accept nuances. There is no place for nuances in this situation.
What can I do in the face of all this? In the face of this pain, this wound, this madness? Pray, cry, feel sorrow and at the same time thank the Universe that we are capable of saying NO, that I am capable of loving again. That I am able to look at the destruction of Gaza my eyes very open, my eyes clean.
As HARRISON KOEHLI says so well in one of his magnificent articles: "I think that the dark and light battle is starting to be very easily perceived and it requires you to line up."