Israel-Palestine War: Hamas Breaks Out of Gaza, Israel Responds With Genocide

[Joe]

I think it makes sense care about who does these things, ie. the facts of the matter. As far as I can tell, the IDF killed the majority of civilians (including Israelis) during the Oct. 7 raid, by Apache helicopter fire, tank shells, and cross fire in the kibbutz. This all falls under the IDF's Hannibal Directive, which states that it is justifiable loss to kill Israelis in order to prevent them from being taken hostage.

There was also, very likely, a death squad involved that did much of the most brutal killing of Israelis, and recorded it for later dissemination to members of the Israeli parliament etc., and then in a more sanitized form to members of the Israeli public. @Ðekel has likely been subject to this kind of propaganda, and the best he can do in that situation is to call out both sides in the conflict. But all that does is highlight that he has been subjected to anti-Palestinian propaganda by his govt. family, friends, media etc.

 

[Ðekel]

There was also, very likely, a death squad involved that did much of the most brutal killing of Israelis, and recorded it for later dissemination to members of the Israeli parliament etc., and then in a more sanitized form to members of the Israeli public. @Ðekel has likely been subject to this kind of propaganda, and the best he can do in that situation is to call out both sides in the conflict. But all that does is highlight that he has been subjected to anti-Palestinian propaganda by his govt. family, friends, media etc.

Okay
I don't think anything I wrote warrants what you just did.

But maybe it's time for me to take a step back anyhow

 

[Joe]

I think my problem is in hoping for a different ground altogether and realizing that it will never happen.
Hence the frustration

There can be a "different ground" in the future. But whether or not you get to see it may depend on you accurately determining and accepting the reality of the dynamics at play in this world.

 

[Joe]

I don't think anything I wrote warrants what you just did.

Can you explain what you mean by "what I just did"? Honest question. If you'd rather not talk about it, no problem.

 

[seek10]

From my point of view: The whole thing is insane, regardless of who is behind what. Killing for truth is also quite insane to me. (Especially if we're talking about attacking civilians)

What can be done about it ? Nothing.
Even if it stops in one location it will still be happening in 5 more around the globe.

Psychos are, naturally and unfortunately, the ones in power.
Why would the case ever be different ?

I really do fail to see how this could come about in any long lasting or meaningful way.

The entire human history is like that, whether we know it or not. Who benefits? Unfortunately that is considered as "conspiracy" nut case question.

 

[Ðekel]

Can you explain what you mean by "what I just did"? Honest question. If you'd rather not talk about it, no problem.

Well, this :

Ðekel has likely been subject to this kind of propaganda, and the best he can do in that situation is to call out both sides in the conflict. But all that does is highlight that he has been subjected to anti-Palestinian propaganda by his govt. family, friends, media etc.

With all due respect, Joe, I would not say you know me well enough to create a psychological profile of me for the forum.
And if my abhorent sin is that I am against conflict in general, then guiltly as charged.

Yes I see that innocent people are being slaughtered. At no point did I remotely condone it.

I don't understand why I need to be labeled as "propagandized" for wishing for a better world.

 

[Ðekel]

Have you maybe considered a possibility that your frustration/anger is misplaced and misdirected?

Where do you believe it should be directed ?

 

[Joe]

I don't understand why I need to be labeled as "propagandized" for wishing for a better world.

So you would say that you have not absorbed or been influenced by any of the official govt. narratives about this conflict and Palestinians?

 

[Joe]

In my inner heart: There is no / should be no such thing as "Israeli", "Palestinian"

That's a noble ideal, but it seems it doesn't work in this world. So until there's a world where that does work, I take the approach that I should give everything its due here, AS IT IS, and resist the urge to ONLY distance myself from it all and dream of things being different.

 

[Ðekel]

So you would say that you have not absorbed or been influenced by any of the official govt. narratives about this conflict and Palestinians?

I have long learned to regard the "news" for what it is: Propaganda, fear mongering.

 

[Ðekel]

That's a noble ideal, but it seems it doesn't work in this world. So until there's a world where that does work, I take the approach that I should give everything its due here, AS IT IS, and resist the urge to ONLY distance myself from it all and dream of things being different.

I think that sometimes, seeing things as they are, the grotesqueness of it, over and over again, that creates the distance in and of itself.

 

[Joe]

I have long learned to regard the "news" for what it is: Propaganda, fear mongering.

ok, then I was wrong to suggest you were perhaps absorbing govt. propaganda. But it does seem (to me anyway) that you have a tendency, as I mentioned in my last response, to recoil from the horror of it all and escape into idealism as a counterbalance to the horror. You're not alone in wanting to do that, but I'd caution against going too far in that direction. Our job here, it seems, is to bear witness to 'what is' and learn valuable lessons from it. It's a difficult task, and we definitely should take care to not get too depressed or stressed out by it.

 

[Ðekel]

ok, then I was wrong to suggest you were perhaps absorbing govt. propaganda. But it does seem (to me anyway) that you have a tendency, as I mentioned in my last response, to recoil from the horror of it all and escape into idealism as a counterbalance to the horror. You're not alone in wanting to do that, but I'd caution against going too far in that direction. Our job here, it seems, is to bear witness to 'what is' and learn valuable lessons from it. It's a difficult task, and we definitely should take care to not get too depressed or stressed out by it.

I don't have the energy to be stressed out atm, depressed: yes. definitely.

At any rate, I will take your words of caution to heart

 

[Ben]

I think that sometimes, seeing things as they are, the grotesqueness of it, over and over again, that creates the distance in and of itself.

We have to be able to balance both perspectives. We ARE in the middle of it all, there will be no 'rapture'. We have all the tools that we need to get through this together. I feel the frustration too but it makes me want an escalation, to destroy the evil, but it's another type of thinking error.

 

[Joe]

I think that sometimes, seeing things as they are, the grotesqueness of it, over and over again, that creates the distance in and of itself.

I think that's true. After all, we're all helpless to stop any of it, so we eventually have to take a step back and accept things as they are. At the same time though, innocent people are suffering at the hands of evil people, and to NOT speak up, to whatever extent we can and while we can, to NOT try to, perhaps, help even a few, or even one, seems (to me anyway) to be a sort of dereliction of duty.