Israel-Palestine War: Hamas Breaks Out of Gaza, Israel Responds With Genocide

Ðekel said:
And I ask myself, we (normal folk) are surrounded by evil from all sides. What hope could there possibly ever be ?

An asteroid ?

Okay so lotsa ppl die and some structures collapse.

There's no way that afterwards, suddenly, the people who will be in leading positions -won't- be psychopaths.

I don't see a viable avenue that would lead to real change
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No way for hope, nope !
But you know, remember :
Keep sane in this insane world
Righteous in this crooked world
Simple in this complicated world
Able to love when hate is around...
So that help finds its way to and from you

FWIW
 
'Netanyahu admits that US approved Israel's ethnic cleansing in Gaza.'

sputnikglobe.com

Netanyahu Says Israel Received Full US Support for Ground Operation in Gaza Strip

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Tuesday that the country received full US support for a ground operation in the Gaza Strip.
sputnikglobe.com sputnikglobe.com
2 hours ago

US to supply arms to Israel until Hamas completely destroyed — Biden​

12 DEC, 2023

www.presstv.ir

US orchestrating Israel’s war tactics in Gaza: Islamic Jihad

"American generals are main architects of this war," said Islamic Jihad
www.presstv.ir www.presstv.ir
10 December 2023
 
Ðekel said:
As I wrote: I don't care who does these things. It can't be right for some and wrong for others.
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I think it makes sense care about who does these things, ie. the facts of the matter. As far as I can tell, the IDF killed the majority of civilians (including Israelis) during the Oct. 7 raid, by Apache helicopter fire, tank shells, and cross fire in the kibbutz. This all falls under the IDF's Hannibal Directive, which states that it is justifiable loss to kill Israelis in order to prevent them from being taken hostage.

Then they put their ZAKA atrocity-porn psyop into action, making up outrageous claims about Hamas butchery in order to drum up international support for their slaughter of civilians. Meanwhile, as Hamas has released hostages, who all seem pretty happy and well fed in the videos - and who have been ordered into silence by the IDF.

There may be some psychos in the Hamas ranks, but I haven't seen any evidence of outright Hamas butchery as the IDF claims.

With regards to the rightness of Hamas' actual actions as documented by the evidence - killing the IDF soldiers and taking hostages in defence of their territory, I think it's perfectly justifiable to resist ethnic cleansing of one's own people and the wholesale slaughter of civilians.

I've noticed a sort of pacifism program that some people were also dealing with when Putin initiated the SMO. We like him and think he's a good guy - how could he be involved in killing? Surely killing can't be good. It's the same question that's asked of Caesar. He was arguably the greatest soul in recent memory, and yet he was responsible for deaths of hundreds of thousands and hostage-taking to ensure compliance. How can that be good in any way?

Gurdjieff talked about the Law of Three, that there is the good and the bad in any situation, and the only way to accurately judge the good and bad requires understanding the specific context in which the action takes place.

One way that I understand Hamas' actions is that they are wielding what the Japanese military strategist Yagyu Munenori called 'the life-giving sword' as written in his book Heiho kadensho. The life-giving sword is a weapon kills in the service of something higher, be it peace, order, truth, or Life itself. Killing in the name of life may seem a contradiction to our normal everyday linear thinking, but not to someone who's facing a bloodthirsty horde like the Azov battalion or the IDF.

A man involved in the political administration of his own local fief and that of the Tokugawa government, Munenori saw in the practice of the sword a Way to forge and temper the student into a total human being. Musashi’s objective of swordsmanship was to “win,” although that “winning” included an ability to understand and perform in any Way whatsoever. Munenori’s approach was from a different angle: on the basis of observation of his father and the teachings of Takuan, he defined his objective as one “sustaining” or “giving life” in a complete sense. The Heiho kadensho offers a path of study to that objective through the practice of the sword, the sharp edge of which must learn to express the blossoming of flowers in the spring and the withering of the leaves in fall.
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In short, the life-giving sword destroys evil.
 
iamthatis said:
I think it makes sense care about who does these things, ie. the facts of the matter. As far as I can tell, the IDF killed the majority of civilians (including Israelis) during the Oct. 7 raid, by Apache helicopter fire, tank shells, and cross fire in the kibbutz. This all falls under the IDF's Hannibal Directive, which states that it is justifiable loss to kill Israelis in order to prevent them from being taken hostage.

Then they put their ZAKA atrocity-porn psyop into action, making up outrageous claims about Hamas butchery in order to drum up international support for their slaughter of civilians. Meanwhile, as Hamas has released hostages, who all seem pretty happy and well fed in the videos - and who have been ordered into silence by the IDF.

There may be some psychos in the Hamas ranks, but I haven't seen any evidence of outright Hamas butchery as the IDF claims.

With regards to the rightness of Hamas' actual actions as documented by the evidence - killing the IDF soldiers and taking hostages in defence of their territory, I think it's perfectly justifiable to resist ethnic cleansing of one's own people and the wholesale slaughter of civilians.

I've noticed a sort of pacifism program that some people were also dealing with when Putin initiated the SMO. We like him and think he's a good guy - how could he be involved in killing? Surely killing can't be good. It's the same question that's asked of Caesar. He was arguably the greatest soul in recent memory, and yet he was responsible for deaths of hundreds of thousands and hostage-taking to ensure compliance. How can that be good in any way?

Gurdjieff talked about the Law of Three, that there is the good and the bad in any situation, and the only way to accurately judge the good and bad requires understanding the specific context in which the action takes place.

One way that I understand Hamas' actions is that they are wielding what the Japanese military strategist Yagyu Munenori called 'the life-giving sword' as written in his book Heiho kadensho. The life-giving sword is a weapon kills in the service of something higher, be it peace, order, truth, or Life itself. Killing in the name of life may seem a contradiction to our normal everyday linear thinking, but not to someone who's facing a bloodthirsty horde like the Azov battalion or the IDF.



In short, the life-giving sword destroys evil.
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From my point of view: The whole thing is insane, regardless of who is behind what. Killing for truth is also quite insane to me. (Especially if we're talking about attacking civilians)

What can be done about it ? Nothing.
Even if it stops in one location it will still be happening in 5 more around the globe.

Psychos are, naturally and unfortunately, the ones in power.
Why would the case ever be different ?

I really do fail to see how this could come about in any long lasting or meaningful way.
 
Ðekel said:
As I wrote: I don't care who does these things. It can't be right for some and wrong for others.
Click to expand...

But who does it has a lot to do with seeing things as they are, here. Apart from what others wrote above, I think the above misses the point: If ONE side only does it, it's not right, correct. But it's even worse when that one side accuses the other of doing what IT is doing. Or when one side pretends to simply be "defending itself" on occupied land (not cool under International law), AND committing genocide in plain sight, for years and years, unpunished. You are perhaps seeing two "equal sides" in an issue that doesn't call for that. It's plainly psychopathic, and both sides aren't equal.
 
This thread is interesting, at best, it will backfire on them.
people keep asking me about israel's plan to "flood the tunnels with seawater" and/or pump saltwater into the soil in the Gaza Strip to render it uninhabitable. The latter is plausible, but also needs a bit more context. let's talk about the gaza aquifer. a quick thread 🧵:
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the entire palestinian coastal plain from haifa to rafah is underlain by a large aquifer. gaza possesses a significant lobe of it, in large part because of this: this is Wadi Gaza, known as Nahal Besor in Israel, one of, if not the largest drainage basins in the Naqab.
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Wadi Gaza is a perennial stream in a country with very few of them. it's very small but occasionally subject to massive floods; the highly permeable coastal loess topsoil gives the coastal aquifer a relatively quick recharge time. photo shows the stream inside israel
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so in theory there's no reason gaza should run short of water, even with 2.4 million people relying on it.

well...

this is what Wadi Gaza looks like inside the Gaza Strip. you may notice some differences.
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inside israel, i.e., upstream from gaza, huge amounts of water are pumped out of the aquifer in order to make all those kibbutzim and moshavim the highly productive agricultural communities that they are, and in order to sell the water to palestinians at a markup.
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the river also naturally loses water through the riverbed, and this is not recharged, it doesn't have the flow rate inside gaza to carry pollutants out to sea. so they penetrate into the topsoil. where do all the pollutants come from? industrial and household wastewater.
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gaza cannot import components to maintain its own water treatment plants, nor can it maintain its own energy supply, because israel restricts the importation of building materials, fuel, and other power sources (e.g. solar panels). so most wastewater goes untreated
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as a result, wells are dug deeper, because the surface layers of water are contaminated. this causes horizontal subsidence, because gaza is adjacent to the sea, and saltwater infiltrates the water supply, making the water brackish. only about 5-10% of the wells in gaza are usable
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can israel pump enough seawater into gaza's aquifer to render it completely undrinkable? yes, for as long as they keep the pumps going, and a few months afterwards. once they stop, fresh water flowing downhill from the israeli part of the aquifer will increase water pressure
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salt water is denser than fresh water, so when fresh water flows into a brackish aquifer and water pressure increases, the salt water sinks deeper into the crust. in general, the artificial injection of desalinated water could restore gaza's water supply this way
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if, of course, there were sufficient power to run all of gaza's desalination plants and water treatment plants, and if israel's water company stopped depleting the upstream aquifer (and, of course, if the risk of subsidence- and swelling-related earthquakes was mitigated)
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IOW: the only reason this is a realistic plan for israel is bc they've spent the last 30-40 years already doing indirectly. even then, they'd need a lot more than five pumps. but the "permanence" of the effect is only true if the occupation and siege are also permanent
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whereas, if the occupation and siege ended tomorrow, and even if 5 million people lived in Gaza, the area could regain not only its habitability but its famous and historic agricultural productivity within, at most, a couple of years.
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end of thread
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1732528075013837122

https://twitter.com/x/status/1732558444245221883
 
Chu said:
But who does it has a lot to do with seeing things as they are, here. Apart from what others wrote above, I think the above misses the point: If ONE side only does it, it's not right, correct. But it's even worse when that one side accuses the other of doing what IT is doing. Or when one side pretends to simply be "defending itself" on occupied land (not cool under International law), AND committing genocide in plain sight, for years and years, unpunished. You are perhaps seeing two "equal sides" in an issue that doesn't call for that. It's plainly psychopathic, and both sides aren't equal.
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No one should be doing it. Period.
The greatest joke to me is so called "war crimes". All and any war should be a crime.

But there's no way of stopping murder

And thus we find planet earth in the situation in which it's in.

I don't see two equal sides.
I see psycopaths and the power hungry destroying lives and trying to snuff out the human soul in the process.
Today the "sides" are called X and Y, tomorrow they will have different names.

I know it's not popular to not root for a specific team, but I don't. I would like for war to be seen for what it is: Insane.

I just feel a deep sense of frustration with the entire thing. Deeper than ever before.
 
Vulcan59 said:
This happened in the Polish parliament.

www.sott.net

Polish lawmaker uses fire extinguisher on Hanukkah candles in parliament

WARSAW - A far-right Polish lawmaker used a fire extinguisher to put out Hanukkah candles in the country's parliament on Tuesday during an event with members of the Jewish community, provoking outrage and leading the speaker to exclude him from...
www.sott.net www.sott.net

https://twitter.com/x/status/1734603768451444741
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Very good. As we say in Spanish: he has c...nes!
 
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Ðekel said:
I don't see two equal sides.
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Ok, maybe I misunderstood the part I quoted then?

Ðekel said:
I know it's not popular to not root for a specific team, but I don't.
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I fail to see how commenting on what is really going on and placing the responsibility where it belongs, is "rooting for a specific team".

Ðekel said:
I would like for war to be seen for what it is: Insane.
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Agreed. But this is not a war, it's a genocide.

Ðekel said:
I just feel a deep sense of frustration with the entire thing. Deeper than ever before.
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That's understandable, but in that case, it is often good to take a step back, and try to see the situation "from a distance", as much as possible. "All there is is lessons", and all. This is about accepting reality as it is, and I think that an important part of it is deciding on what our values are, and not letting ourselves be fooled by propaganda. Maybe it would help to remember that Israel is probably one of the countries in the world where the latter has been the most successful at distorting reality, and pushing a seriously twisted agenda.
 
Ðekel said:
As I wrote: I don't care who does these things. It can't be right for some and wrong for others.
Click to expand...

I think you have a distorted view of the situation.

It IS wrong for Israel to steal Palestinian land and hold it by force.

It is NOT wrong for Palestinians to resist that theft by force.

It IS wrong for Israel to take thousands of Palestinians hostage.

It is NOT wrong for Palestinians to take Israelis hostage in order to free Palestinian hostages.

You seem to always devolve towards a "middle ground" attitude to this situation. But there is no middle ground with the aggressor and the aggressed.
 
Joe said:
I think you have a distorted view of the situation.

It IS wrong for Israel to steal Palestinian land and hold it by force.

It is NOT wrong for Palestinians to resist that theft by force.

It IS wrong for Israel to take thousands of Palestinians hostage.

It is NOT wrong for Palestinians to take Israelis hostage in order to free Palestinian hostages.

You seem to always devolve towards a "middle ground" attitude to this situation. But there is no middle ground with the aggressor and the aggressed.
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As long as there is an aggressor, there can be no middle ground.

Physical bodies = Possibility of attack
Attack can be two people in conflict, a war, and also genocide.

I think my problem is in hoping for a different ground altogether and realizing that it will never happen.
Hence the frustration
 
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