E-cigarettes: research - experiments - ideas

FWIW, I have noticed similar benefits. From what I understand, having a cigarette is roughly equivalent to 50mg, I smoked 15 a day, now I vape 15mg a roughly 2-3mls a day, I think I have a more steady level of nicotine in my system, as I don’t need a hit once an hour, I just have a vape whenever, more consistently, like with a cigarette you smoke it for say 5 to 10 minutes and then it’s done, with vaping you have it more often but less of it, if that makes sense
It is normal and may have to do with the resorption of nicotine and its delivery to the brain. Smoking is faster and maybe more efficient on a short term basis.

Yeah that was what I thought. And I smoked 30 - 35 a day :whistle:
 
This article has a good run-down of the actual composition of smoke-less tobacco and other nicotine products (the content of the R-enantiomer can vary by orders of magnitude even within the same tobacco product from different batches):

IMG_1211.jpeg


Another point is that the mix of S- and R-enantiomers in the tobacco plant might be different depending on processing.

Interesting to learn that Turkish tobacco, i.e. oriental, has a relatively high content of R-nicotine, at least in this review. The tobacco itself has a low overall nicotine content.
 
FWIW, I have noticed similar benefits. From what I understand, having a cigarette is roughly equivalent to 50mg, I smoked 15 a day, now I vape 15mg a roughly 2-3mls a day, I think I have a more steady level of nicotine in my system, as I don’t need a hit once an hour, I just have a vape whenever, more consistently, like with a cigarette you smoke it for say 5 to 10 minutes and then it’s done, with vaping you have it more often but less of it, if that makes sense
You mean 5mg?
 
Interesting to learn that Turkish tobacco, i.e. oriental, has a relatively high content of R-nicotine, at least in this review. The tobacco itself has a low overall nicotine content.

I have some stocks and will make an extract of oriental in the not too distant future and see if this will lead to a happier vaping experience due to its R-nicotine level...
 
The highest value that I have seen in studies is 28 mg for American Spirit. Most other cigarettes are much lower, some below 10 mg.

Yes, it's very hard to know the exact content.

I usually guess going by what the Cs said (but taking into account that it may not be precise, since the tobacco is different).


Q: What other things does nicotine do?

A: Raises defences.

Q: What kind?

A: Immunological.

Q: Anything else?

A: Excites neurotransmitters. You require less sleep.

Q: Is this true for everyone?

A: No.

Q: (A) How much nicotine is necessary?

A: 100 mg per day.

Q:
(A) Can it be in pill form?

A: Cigarettes infuse it to brain tissues most effectively.

Q: Well, I am certainly relieved! Now I know that I do not have a 'smoking demon' possessing me! I was really getting worried!

A: Those who fit this profile find it nearly impossible to "quit" completely.

Q: So, there are people who are actually benefitted by smoking?

A: Genetics will offer proof of this.

Q: You mean that one can see changes in DNA before and after smoking?

A: Close

Q: Is this also true for Frank?

A: Yes.

Q: Why us?

A: It is simply part of your "profiles."

Q: Is that also why I have been having more stomach problems than usual?

A: Yes.

Q: Well, I always noticed that smoking could settle my stomach. It also stimulated my bowels... (F) Yes.

A: (A) What is serious here is the number. How many milligrams... (L) How many cigarettes does the number translate into?

A: 20.

So, an average of 5mg per cigarette.

I used to smoke between 15 and 25 rollies per day. So, between 75mg and 125 mg of nicotine.

Our vaping liquid is at 10mg/ml. And I use roughly 5m per day. I.e. 50 mg. When I feel the need for more (or just for pleasure), I will smoke 1-3 cigarettes a day. That brings the total to about 55-65 mg. But it's not exact, because in those days, I can vape less too.

That's very interesting. Did the total daily amount of nicotine stay the same or was it reduced as well? Because the question is also whether one can achieve the same improvement simply by reducing the daily amount of smoked cigarettes to a certain degree.

I hope the calculation above helps you with that. But I think it is very different, and it depends on what effects you are talking about. For the vocal chords, for example, nicotine has probably nothing to do with it, and it is the by-products of combustion that have the bad effect. For mental concentration, I think it might depend on what you brain really needs: stronger boosts less times per day (smoking), or smaller boosts more regularly? (vaping). And for HRV, as far as I understand there are several factors involved, such as the type of exercise you do, your quality of sleep, etc. But if anything, my guess would be that the lower HRV in smokers also has to do with the byproducts of combustion, not nicotine itself.

Here are some articles, but I haven't read them thoroughly. They seem to be saying that the increase in HRV after smoking cessation is kind of temporary. Other say it definitely is an issue for smokers.
 
And for HRV, as far as I understand there are several factors involved, such as the type of exercise you do, your quality of sleep, etc. But if anything, my guess would be that the lower HRV in smokers also has to do with the byproducts of combustion, not nicotine itself.
I thought that lower HRV in smokers could be related to Carbon Monoxide ingestion during smoking but then I found this:

Nicotine Ingestion Reduces Heart Rate Variability in Young Healthy Adults​


... The purpose of this study was to explore whether nicotine, the main component of tobacco, has adverse effects on heart rate variability (HRV) in adolescents, so as to remind adolescents not to smoke and not to take pleasure in abusing nicotine. In this study, 40 male and 40 female young healthy nonsmoking subjects were selected to analyze the changes of HRV after taking 4 mg nicotine orally. We found that nicotine reduced HRV in young healthy male and female subjects, and there was no gender difference in this effect (P > 0.05). In conclusion, smoking is harmful to the cardiac system of young people, especially when nicotine content ≥4 mg dosage.

...

2. Materials and Methods​

2.1. Drugs​


Treatment: Nicabate CQ lozenge (GlaxoSmithKline) contains nicotine at 4 mg dosage and administered orally.
So providing the study is not flawed, they basically gave non-smokers a lozenge with 4 mg nicotine and it seemed to reduce their HRV within 10-20 minutes.

I hope the calculation above helps you with that. But I think it is very different, and it depends on what effects you are talking about. For the vocal chords, for example, nicotine has probably nothing to do with it, and it is the by-products of combustion that have the bad effect.
My vocal chords are of no interest to me :-D. It's rather about heart health in general since I put it under heavy load regularly (100+ km running a month). Usually, I stop smoking 3 hours before a run and it makes a huge difference. Other than that it's still 20-25 American Spirit Master Blend Gold rollies a day.:cool2:
 
You mean 5mg?
Yes apologies for the confusion, I meant 5mg, well, like others have said between 5-15mg per cigarette sounds about right.

I think like with most things, everyone is different and it’s bout finding the amount for you, maybe by having a more constant level by vaping you need less overall?

I find when I am meaningfully stimulated, either a deep conversation or creating music, or a heavy reading/research stint, i tend to vape/smoke a lot more
 
So providing the study is not flawed, they basically gave non-smokers a lozenge with 4 mg nicotine and it seemed to reduce their HRV within 10-20 minutes.

I don't know enough about this, so FWIW: What stands out is that this experiment was done with only Chinese volunteers. So, genetics might be a big factor, and we would have to see a study done with other groups of people to know for sure. Then, 4mg is quite a bit. I wonder if the effect would be the same, say, with regulated vaping in smaller doses.

But even then, what the study seems to be saying is that, although not optimal for health, vaping is still healthier than smoking.

Then, there are people who say that HRV is very personal, and depends on many factors. So, I would guess that smoking or nicotine is one of them but not the only one, and maybe not even the most important, depending on the person?


Finally, there is the matter of many things not being ideal. So you decide based on your profile if the benefits outweigh the risks, or viceversa.
 
I've been smoking small amounts - maybe 1 cig or less a day. I also do about 10 Velo a day (sometimes more) which are 10mg, half of which is absorbed as far as I can tell. I also vape 6mg/mL solution, maybe 3mL/day. So that would be:
10 * 5mg = 50mg (Velo)
3mL * 6mg/mL = 18mg (vape)
1 cig * 5mg = 5mg
Total: 73mg nicotine
In the past, I'd smoke 25 a day easily, which would be 125mg nicotine.

Note that most stuff you find on the net says 1 cig = 2.5mg nicotine, so not sure where the C's got their number of 5mg, but whatever! I'll just go with it.

I'm perfectly happy with this "flex fuel" version of nicotine ingestion. One very nice thing is that I no longer need to worry about smoking on flights, in airports, restaurants, etc. And in the event that tobacco, nicotine pouches like Zyn/Velo, vapes, patches, or whatever are no longer available for some reason, I'll just switch to another intake method - and I know I'll be fine.

My body also notes when I should smoke less, because sometimes I feel constriction in my chest after even just 1 or 2 puffs. That didn't used to happen, but is one of the reasons I keep smoking to a minimum.

Overall, I'd say breathing/heart-wise, I feel much better when I keep the smoking greatly reduced - but I LOVE the nicotine.

That's been my experience, but for sure yours will vary. Just find whatever works best for you - which may very well be smoking like a chimney! I also think it's important not to obsess too much over it, because you may end up doing yourself more harm than good. For example, if you convince yourself smoking is bad, then start smoking again (even a bit), that may end up doing you more harm than good (because of your negative smoking belief) than if you'd just stuck with smoking your normal amount and thinking it was great. Sometimes I think it's important not to "send ourselves bad messages" by how we ingest something - as opposed to just what we ingest. At the same time, it's also good to re-evaluate and experiment and see if changing our various habits improves our well-being in some way.
 
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