New Objective:Health Episode: The Hidden Dangers of Oxalates in Your Food‌ - Interview With Sally K. Norton

[Keyhole]

When I read things like increases excretion of oxalate I'm thinking that simply means the body is able to remove more through sweat and urine. This could ultimately be a good thing. However, I'm guessing the assumption is that more excretion raises the probability of kidney stones for those that are susceptible.

Is this a correct assumption? Sorry haven't read the papers above yet.

I think its possible, but doesn't really fit in well with the the way the body excretes most oxalate. Apparently oxalate dumping occurs mostly through the gut, and so increased urinary excretion is supposedly meant to be reflective of increased load/synthesis.

A similar thing occurs with glycine and hydroxyproline. The research shows that giving a dose of glycine or hydroxyproline to animals predisposed toward higher endogenous synthesis of oxalate increases oxalate excretion through kidney. This is inline with the physiology, where B6 or thiamine deficiency routes glycine/hydrodoxyproline toward oxalate.

This is why people who are oxalate toxic might/can and do experience increases in pain from glycine supplements or excessive bone broth consumption.

 

[mrtn]

I have question (a little offtopic) and didn't find a dedicated potassium thread. I need to order new potassium (in Germany). Is there any reason not to use the following as a supplement, it's much cheaper than supplements:

Kaliumcitrat Monohydrat - min 99% Pharmaqualität

Kaliumcitrat (andere Namen: E 332, Kaliumcitrat-Monohydrat, tri-Kaliumcitrat-1-Hydrat) Produktdaten des Kaliumcitrats Name: Kaliumcitrat…

diacleanshop.com

translation of product description:

Potassium Citrate Monohydrate - min 99% Pharmaceutical Quality

Product information "Potassium Citrate Monohydrate - min 99% Pharmaceutical Quality

potassium citrate (other names: E 332, potassium citrate monohydrate, tri-potassium citrate-1-hydrate)

Potassium content of 36%.

Product data of potassium citrate

Name: Potassium Citrate Monohydrate

Content: min. 99%.

Sum formula: C6H5K3O7 x H2O

Pharmaceutical grade, Ph.Eur.,USP,FCC,E332(ii), MG 324,41g/mol

CAS No.: 6100-05-6

Appearance: white crystals

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

 

[nature]

Hi mrtn!
This french site gives the toxicity of chemical products. It says OK for potassium citrate E332 if not abused:

See citric acid E330, from which potassium citrate is derived.
Like the first, the latter can also be of transgenic origin[16,1,9",22].
Would sometimes be discouraged in case of kidney problems[9',9"].

Potassium citrate (E)332 is listed as an acidity regulator, emulsifying salt, sequestering and stabilizing agent in the Codex Alimentarius and can, depending on its vision, be incorporated into different food categories without upper level of quantification (GMP), including foods for infants and young children[13a].

The European Union also authorizes it in the manufacture of food enzymes, nutrients (vitamins, minerals,...) for adults and children[15e] and will not, in this case, be labelled with the ingredients, ndr.

Other uses: Pharmaceuticals, cosmetics.

But about citric acid it says the following. Thus it seems that finding a reliable product is very hard.

Natural citric acid plays a central role in the metabolism of virtually all living organisms and takes its name from the lemon, where it is present in large quantities.

Today, the main commercial route for citric acid production is the cultivation of Aspergillus niger (a fungus with a black mould-like appearance on fruits and vegetables), fed on a sugar-containing substrate (sucrose or glucose). This microorganism can be transgenic to increase yield. The source of sugar is macerated corn liquor, molasses, hydrolyzed corn starch or other inexpensive sugar solutions. Maize can also be of transgenic origin. The mould is then filtered from the resulting solution, and the citric acid is precipitated with lime to give calcium citrate, from which citric acid is regenerated by treatment with sulphuric acid.

Citric acid can also be obtained from a more expensive method using by-products of pineapple or lemons of lower quality

Citric acid is frequently presented as harmless, except that it can attack tooth enamel, mouth ulcers, allergies/pseudo-allergies (intolerances, rare), and other problems in a sensitive person, in high doses or in regular consumption[22,23,26,27,1,2,9",10,12,20].

Dental damage caused by citric acid is certainly the most frequent, especially in children, less because of the additive itself than because of its recurrent presence in many foods.

Commercial citric acid is biosynthesized by microorganisms (moulds) grown on a substrate that usually contains molasses and/or glucose. Microorganisms can be genetically modified to increase yield. Glucose can be produced from corn starch, and therefore potentially transgenic as well.

Many people who react to foods containing citric acid may actually be allergic to the mold or corn used to produce citric acid[23].

A majority of citric acid being produced from corn producers do not always remove the protein that can be hydrolyzed and thus give MSG (E621 MonoSodium Glucamate), causing reactions in glutamate reactive people

"There are no citrus fruits in E330, only a chemical produced by a black mold, like the one that covers this bread. »
About.com (New-York Times Company).

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

 

[nature]

Add: on your product, it is noted "pharmaceutical quality": if it means that it is extracted from fruits and not from aspergillus culture, then it's a good product. Maybe you can email them and ask?

 

[Alana]

All this to say, maybe having a good glutathione status is one of the determining factors in smaller doses of vitamin C converting to oxalate. This may account for why the connection between ascorbate supplementation and oxalate stone formation is so tenuous and seems to only affect some people. But that's just a guess since, as the article states, the research on this is lacking.

It's interesting that protocols include glutathione in the vitamin C IV infusion.

Interesting, because I always take NAC with vit C, which is a precursor to glutathione.

 

[mrtn]

Thanks @nature for you help. I just read on german wikipedia that in europe transgenic variations of the mold are not allowed for citric acid production, but I guess the product could come from elsewhere. I asked them some questions via their contact form and will come back with the reply. They write on their site that they supply dialysis facilities since 20 years, which sounds good.

 

[mrtn]

I asked them some questions via their contact form and will come back with the reply.

They didn't exactly answer if the citric acid is coming from fruits, so I guess it's not. But no GMO. Here is a transation of the exchange:

I have some questions about the product:
Potassium Citrate Monohydrate - min 99% Pharmaceutical Quality

Kaliumcitrat Monohydrat - min 99% Pharmaqualität

Kaliumcitrat (andere Namen: E 332, Kaliumcitrat-Monohydrat, tri-Kaliumcitrat-1-Hydrat) Produktdaten des Kaliumcitrats Name: Kaliumcitrat…

diacleanshop.com

Is citrate obtained from fruit, or is Aspergillus niger used there? Or what is the probability of residues in the product in the case of Aspergillus niger? Are transgenic variants of the fungus used?

Thank you very much.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

Good morning, sir,

our potassium citrate is obtained from citric acid. Genetically modified organisms are not used. For this product, a certificate of analysis is issued with each delivery, which proves the pharmaceutical quality according to the European Pharmacopoeia and guarantees the high quality standards (without harmful residues).

Yours sincerely
Your Diacleanshop Team

 

[lilies]

Thank You! Your amazing radio show is a great help to avoid High Oxalate Foods! Right on cue now that Trump wages a trade war and my - so far - favorite sweet potatoes - imported from the US - became more expensive! Turns out that previously heralded, super tasty, low-glycemic sweet potatoes are very high in oxalates! So the decision was easy: Bye-bye Sweet Potatoes! For your - now Trump-Increased-Price - I can buy 30 eggs [non-factory]and gain lots of pythonutrients and successfully avoid a dangerous high-oxalate trap in one move.

Medium oxalate-content foods I don't care about, since they give you a lot of health benefits.

I shuddered remembering, how many dangerous, high-oxalate foods you loved to gobble down in massive quantities:
9 years ago I wolfed down buckets of sunflower seeds, boxes of blueberries, tofu, big sacks of peanuts, chocolate-milk, cinnamon, ginger, dark chocolate.

Now its over. Thank You again for making us aware of the dangers of super evil oxalates!!

 

[lilies]

While "exercise-experts" scorned sweating and limited exercise to 30 minutes, it turns out almost everybody is loaded with oxalate and with a high probability Chronic Fibromyalgiacs are suffering from acute oxalate poisoning. So glandular excretions are an amazing way to get rid of oxalate and become happy!

Have to thoroughly blow your nose right after eating?:
If you had your adenoids removed as a child, like me, then probably one of your natural functions aren't working. Before eating I have a completely normal, healthy, dry nose, just like you. In my case there is always an excessive need to thoroughly rinse my nose with artesian water after eating, because of glands there start to work fast and produce clean/transparent "water" exiting. I think existing and healthy adenoids would prevent this?
But this drawback has a nice benefit! Resulting in probably an adequate oxalate removal as well! Just as frequent crying. Every little bit helps!

 

[nature]

They didn't exactly answer if the citric acid is coming from fruits, so I guess it's not. But no GMO. Here is a transation of the exchange:

So, for them, pharmaceutical quality= no GMO, only.
Well, the overall toxicity is quoted low, so you can take it, without abusing.

A question: what about taking magnesium citrate instead? the advantage is that you get magnesium too. And if you still take Lugol, you get potassium too.

 

[mrtn]

A question: what about taking magnesium citrate instead? the advantage is that you get magnesium too. And if you still take Lugol, you get potassium too.

I wanted the potassium, not necessarily the citrate . But I think I will also order magnesium from them. I stopped taking lugols some weeks ago due to stomach problems (but now I think that was causes by to much coffee on empty stomach, especially in the morning)

 

[Voyageur]

Thank you both for the great interview - really set some things for me and brought together all the stuff that has been talked about over the years. These were new dots never though about and presently, thanks to you Elliot for originally bringing it all forward and connecting up with Sally, better referenced in looking at overall health.

Though the discussion of soils (calcium with fungal properties vs non calcium relative to oxalates) was in itself interesting.

Thought the point your brought up Doug on bioavailability was a good one - how it is stated in nutrition products never factoring the 'real' uptake vs what percent is binded to oxalates.

So many things to think about here...also, I've a relationship with a couple of high oxalates containing foods and now it is divorce time...

 

[etezete]

Thank you very much for bringing this up! This might be a game changer for me, too.

I also found the talk of these two ladies on youtube very interesting, too:

 

[Bluefyre]

Thank you Elliot and Doug for a great interview. It certainly was an eye-opener in a lot of ways.

 

[maiko]

Thank you for the great show! That was pretty fascinating and explains a lot.