New Objective:Health Episode: The Hidden Dangers of Oxalates in Your Food‌ - Interview With Sally K. Norton

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

On some of the websites in this thread some foods are oddly placed. Celery and cauliflower are on opposite spectrums here:

Oxalate content of foods

But seem very similar here:

Oxalate Content of 750+ Foods

So just be careful about arbitrary categorizations - it may be deceiving. Some use "serving size" (an arbitrary thing), others use an actual weighted amount, and others don't even tell you how they're categorizing, what threshold they use for high/low/medium. Oxalate.org seems more clear/objective though, assuming it's accurate of course.

Anyways, great show guys! I think keto/paleo is still fully doable with this in mind, as there are plenty of low oxalate options that aren't simply meat. I'd think for many people it may be enough to just eliminate the worst offenders - it just depends on your general health etc.

 

[Keyhole]

On some of the websites in this thread some foods are oddly placed. Celery and cauliflower are on opposite spectrums here:

Oxalate content of foods

But seem very similar here:

Oxalate Content of 750+ Foods

So just be careful about arbitrary categorizations - it may be deceiving. Some use "serving size" (an arbitrary thing), others use an actual weighted amount, and others don't even tell you how they're categorizing, what threshold they use for high/low/medium. Oxalate.org seems more clear/objective though, assuming it's accurate of course.

Anyways, great show guys! I think keto/paleo is still fully doable with this in mind, as there are plenty of low oxalate options that aren't simply meat. I'd think for many people it may be enough to just eliminate the worst offenders - it just depends on your general health etc.

Totally agree. If someone is in good health, they can also probably tolerate 150mg/200mg just fine.

On the other hand, if someone has any kind of autoimmunity, gut issues, or anything like that... I wouldn't risk going higher than 150mg/day.

In any case, liberal amounts of 90% dark chocolate (like a whole bar), spinach salads, and nut flours are likely always problematic... there's just no need to traumatize the body like that in my opinion.

 

[luc]

That was really great guys, thanks a lot! And Sally was awesome.

While I think we should be careful not to proclaim the next "health super-villain", the "root of all evil" (it always turned out to be more complicated than that with other "super-villains" so far), the whole oxalate thing seems to be an important part of the puzzle.

It might also explain a few things I noticed. For example, I just feel miserable after eating chocolate, unless it's in veeery small quantities. I always blamed the carbs, but there's hardly anything in it in the 80+ percent variety. And other carby foods I tolerate much better.

What I noticed especially since doing carnivore is how strong I react to raw food, such as mixed salads etc. Terrible! Now it makes more sense, because not only are many of those things among the worst offenders, but cooking apparently helps getting rid of at least some of the oxalates.

I also had some minor, though very strange symptoms showing up after starting carnivore that might be related. But we said from the very beginning that we'll "cheat" on social occasions, such as when we're invited or have guests, in which case we eat regular paleo and even potatoes, rice and such things. Turns out that maybe that was a good thing in terms of oxalate detox - have 2-4 days a month on average where you're still getting some oxalate so that the body isn't overwhelmed.

Thanks again for the fascinating show!

 

[Voyageur]

But seem very similar here:

Oxalate Content of 750+ Foods

So just be careful about arbitrary categorizations - it may be deceiving. Some use "serving size" (an arbitrary thing), others use an actual weighted amount, and others don't even tell you how they're categorizing, what threshold they use for high/low/medium. Oxalate.org seems more clear/objective though, assuming it's accurate of course.

Totally agree. If someone is in good health, they can also probably tolerate 150mg/200mg just fine

Thanks for the links.

Had a look and a quick scan of 50 or so of the 750 (quantity not added) which provides a snapshot (Black Pepper is now un-friended):

Almond - 407.3 mg
Black Pepper, Pepper, White Pepper - 3400 mg
Buckwheat (Leaf) - 11100 mg
Cacao – 500 mg
Carambola, Star Fruit - 5000-9580 mg
Cashew – 318.4 mg
Carrot, raw – 6 mg
Chives - 1480 mg
Garlic - 360 mg
Lettuce – 330 mg
Onions – 0 mg
Parsley - 1700 mg

 

[anartist]

Interesting, because I always take NAC with vit C, which is a precursor to glutathione.

When I receive Calcium EDTA IV detox at my IV Detox clinic, they give me a by hand syringe injection of glutathione beforehand, and also give me a glass of water with glycine! They also give a glas of water mixed with a bitter substance which I don't know the name of. However, when I have gotten IV Vitamin C from them, there is no glutathione of glycine given.

 

[manitoban]

A bit late, but I just watched the show and this was a real eye opener to say the least. Sally is a very articulate speaker, and did a fantastic job of explaining all the health problems that oxalates can cause. And what a list it was - you have to wonder if high oxalate diets are creating an epidemic of illness. Particularly interesting was how Sally said wherever the body has been damaged or is weak is where the crystals might store themselves - that could account for so many health problems. The worst part being that people tend to go high oxalate when they are actually trying to eat "healthy" foods! I've done it too, stevia, tea, yes ugh spinach, you name it, I ate it. I'm sure this has contributed to some of the health issues I've had over the years.

I think at one point she also said something about high oxalate diets and vaccines being the biggest cause of autoimmune disease. When you think about the current insane push for more and more vaccines AND for veganism/plant based diets, well we can see where this is going - Everyone is going to get autoimmune issues if they follow medical advice!!

All in all a tremendously informative show, great job guys!

 

[lilies]

I wanted the potassium, not necessarily the citrate . But I think I will also order magnesium from them. I stopped taking lugols some weeks ago due to stomach problems (but now I think that was causes by to much coffee on empty stomach, especially in the morning)

I order highest quality Potassium Citrate from PureBulk. They are aware of mold contaminated Chinese products and they always send to the labs for testing a sample of the bulk powder-supplements they ordered: they want to determine if the sample doesn't contain any mold or anything toxic. This is why I like PureBulk. If you have the money to pay the shipping, order from them!

 

[lilies]

Sweet Potato BurnDown Hell

OMG, since this radio show is so recent I just discovered by switching to cook my regular, bi-weekly solid food, that now I did NOT put sweet potato in the large pot and guess what happened?

Sweet potato always mixed at the bottom with the bacon and it was the devilish sweet potato that burned down into dark coal and stuck onto the bottom of the pot always!! Stupidly I got used to it that I always had to scrape up some of the burnt-down "black coal"-sweet potato. Stupidly I thought it was bacon burnt down all the time. NO! It was the Devil's Food sweet potato!

Now I did not put sweet potato into the pot and the bottom of the 'large' mass of solid food did not burn down!! As I am cooking it now, I have very little / minimal amount that I had to scrape up with the wooden spoon.
Of course now that I put in at least 5 onions - best amazing low-in oxalate with garlic - that now had stuck to the bottom. But by this usually I had serious "coal" sticking on the bottom of my pot.

This originates that I loved omelettes and everything well roasted, brown, dark brown, everything crispy in the past. So it had the crunch. Now with paleo most of the amazing crunch-foods were gone. So that's why I tolerated the burnt-down "coal" stuck on the bottom, which when scraped up produced an amazing, crispy topping on my food.

 

[mrtn]

I order highest quality Potassium Citrate from PureBulk.

Looks very good, thanks! I didn't order yet so maybe I will order from them. I hope they ship to Germany.

 

[lilies]

I wanted the potassium, not necessarily the citrate . But I think I will also order magnesium from them. I stopped taking lugols some weeks ago due to stomach problems (but now I think that was causes by to much coffee on empty stomach, especially in the morning)

Sensitive stomach owners: beware of Magnesium-Lactate Dihydrate! (PureBulk) This powder is hailed as having excellent absorption rate.
You might have sensitive stomach, just like me then. Usually I have to put very little tea leaves in the water or just stop drinking tea, when I feel it on my stomach.
I found that taking this type of magnesium at night I always had strange stomach pain, I felt the powder weighing down on my stomach. I discovered that when I use simple Magnesium-Malate - which is hailed to cause diarrhea / loose stools - I do not have stomach ache. When I order Nature's Life Magnesium-Malate from Vitacost I always put it into the blender and turn it into fine powder. People complain in product reviews that it is too rough to swallow, because of almost poppy-seed sized particles. I solved that one.

Taking Magnesium Powder Trick:
Also magnesium powder is a lot easier to swallow before sleep, when you take a nice draught of glycine sweetened lemonade water in your mouth, then scoop up your favorite magnesium powder into a spoon and pour the contents of the spoon into your mouth, on top of the water! Then you lower your head into normal position and the bulk of that magnesium will stay surprisingly nicely together and be covered with water and becomes a SOFT PILL! Which you can swallow without some rogue magnesium powder particles sticking into you throat and making you cough or worse. This happened frequently for me and caused super annoying swallowing difficulties. Using this trick: Not anymore!!

 

[John G]

All this to say, maybe having a good glutathione status is one of the determining factors in smaller doses of vitamin C converting to oxalate. This may account for why the connection between ascorbate supplementation and oxalate stone formation is so tenuous and seems to only affect some people. But that's just a guess since, as the article states, the research on this is lacking.

It's interesting that protocols include glutathione in the vitamin C IV infusion.

Interesting, because I always take NAC with vit C, which is a precursor to glutathione.

Hopefully NAC and C help with oxalates since in addition to the use with iodine when we take it, we are taking them via thinking I (and my wife) may have this problem:

https://www.jillcarnahan.com/2018/03/12/mold-is-a-major-trigger-of-mast-activation-cell-syndrome/

Mast cells are an important part of your immune system, without them you would never heal from an injury. However, there is a condition where they become overactive and cause serious problems in the body – this condition is called mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS)...

From what I’ve seen in my practice and have heard from my colleagues, mold is probably the number one trigger of MCAS, followed by infections. Once these cells are activated they start pouring out all sorts of inflammatory agents, such as histamine, and cytokines...

Shortly after, my body broke out in very severe hives. I took an anti-histamine to deal with the hives but realized what was happening was a massive mast cell activation in detox. My body was detoxing from mold through my treatments and by removing myself from the exposure, but it was causing mast cell activation symptoms. I experiences brain fog, respiratory issues, gastrointestinal distress, and my skin was covered in hives...

There are a number of supplements you can take to help MCAS, these include natural antihistamines and mast cell stabilizers.

• Ascorbic acid
• Quercetin
• Omega 3s
• Vitamin B6
• Vitamin B12
• Vitamin C
• Glutathione
• Turmeric
• P5P
• Diamine Oxidase enzymes (DAO)
• Resveratrol
• Methylfolate
• Umbrellux DAO
• Lactobacillus rhamnosus
• Bifidobacterium spp

https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/article/brain-articles/histamines-mold/

No discussion of mast cells and histamine would be complete without mentioning the work of Dr. Neil Nathan, who has an excellent book entitled “Toxic: Heal Your Body from Mold Toxicity, Lyme Disease, Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, and Chronic Environmental Illness,” which I feel is a must-read for anyone who suspects they have a histamine sensitivity, excess mast cell activation, mold...

Although it tends to fly under the radar, many people are now discovering the benefits of limiting oxalates in their diet. Many of the symptoms of oxalate sensitivity can overlap with histamine sensitivity, and if the elimination of histamines does not relieve your issues, you may also want to consider limiting oxalates, which seems to provide relief from symptoms such as inflammatory conditions, autoimmune issues, mineral deficiency, and perhaps even autism.

Very much enjoy all three of the new Youtube shows!

 

[Lys]

Thank you very much for this great show!
You asked very pertinent questions and it makes it a lot clearer.
I prepared a list of high oxalate food to put on the fridge for the family as we are 4 people cooking and the more we learn the more grocery times can be complicated!

It is true that the idea of having to eat your veggies is so anchored in the head.
Even knowing that it may be not so good in large quantity, I still see myself thinking "Maybe I should eat a bit more of them..." sometimes. It is quite impressive how this idea can stick to me!

For now, it would be too hard to stop coffee and dark chocolate but I will try to decrease them and stop buckwheat for a while and see what happens.

 

[Anthony]

A bit late, but I just watched the show and this was a real eye opener to say the least. Sally is a very articulate speaker, and did a fantastic job of explaining all the health problems that oxalates can cause. And what a list it was - you have to wonder if high oxalate diets are creating an epidemic of illness. Particularly interesting was how Sally said wherever the body has been damaged or is weak is where the crystals might store themselves - that could account for so many health problems. The worst part being that people tend to go high oxalate when they are actually trying to eat "healthy" foods! I've done it too, stevia, tea, yes ugh spinach, you name it, I ate it. I'm sure this has contributed to some of the health issues I've had over the years.

I think at one point she also said something about high oxalate diets and vaccines being the biggest cause of autoimmune disease. When you think about the current insane push for more and more vaccines AND for veganism/plant based diets, well we can see where this is going - Everyone is going to get autoimmune issues if they follow medical advice!!

All in all a tremendously informative show, great job guys!

When it comes to tea and oxalates, rooibos tea apparently has no oxalates or a negligible amount, it's also caffeine free. The only downside could be its estrogenic activity.

 

[Bluefyre]

When it comes to tea and oxalates, rooibos tea apparently has no oxalates or a negligible amount, it's also caffeine free. The only downside could be its estrogenic activity.

Thanks for this info Anthony. I didn't know about the estrogenic activity of rooibos. I've been drinking it for some time as well as honeybush to cut down on the black tea. After checking it seems honeybush has the same estrogenic effect.

 

[3DStudent]

Usually, my oxalates are coming mostly from tea. I would sometimes double the teabags and even drink two cups. And on weekends I drink a cup around lunch. This adds up with the doubled tea bags. Also I put stevia in the cup. Liquid is low in oxalates, but powdered stevia is high. I recently bought some coconut butter cups made with dark chocolate. But doing some math it seems that two cups have 13mg of oxalates, so not too bad for chocolate.

I take a multi B vitamin so I'm guessing my B1 and B6 are ok. I take magnesium citrate before bed, so probably not neutralizing anything by then. I almost always take enzymes with meals, so my fat digestion should be good. I also take a probiotic. Once I get through this chocolate and then limit my tea, I should be back to low oxalates.

Butter has 48mg of calcium per 100g. But I usually eat around 60g of butter, so 28.8 mg of calcium. Not sure if all of that will bind to the oxalates. I have some calcium tablets that are 250mg each, but I stopped taking them because I tend to form calcium deposits.

I stopped taking glycine with my tea. I was taking it because I take a drop of Iodine twice a day 5 days a week. I think I might add it back though. Also wondering how much Vitamin C is too much, because that can make you produce oxalates? I take 3 or 4 grams around 2 hours after taking Iodine.

Just writing down my notes taken after re-listening to two of those podcasts on oxalates recently.