Trump Assassination of Iranian General Soleimani - IRGC Counterstrike

What a plot twist! It feels amazing that these type of blunders would happen by pure accident/human error, but unfortunately we don't have access to the deeper details, so we have to wait and see.

But now that Iran took responsibility -whether or not there was some foul play to make this event more likely to happen (which I suspect there was) -, it can't be anymore used as a similar weapon against Iran, as MH17 has been used against Russia.
 
The situation somehow strongly seems to echo the downing of the russian military plane over Syria by Syrian air defense a while ago, while most likely Israel did a sneaky move that tricked the Syrians into shooting it down, in the hopes of a: souring the relations between Syria with Russia and b; feeding the idea of the "necessity" in the minds of ordinary people and policy makers that something "has to be done about that evil regime in Syria" in the form of an intervention of one sort or the other.
 
My hunch for the moment is that Iran was left no other choice than admitting it was "their fault". Or in other words, a sneaky mossad move was set up in some sort of a way that makes it very hard for Iran to not make a fool of themselves by claiming they "were not responsible".
 
I am so surprised that I almost throw my coffee on the table reading the news. What!!!! It can be. Or not. But don't forget one thing: Israel have I don't know how many nuclear weapons directed on Iran, maybe Iran was forced to say they were responsible or kaput. We don't know and I am curious how this situation will go.

I really feel sad for the victims and also for Iran itself. Surely they will compensate the victims, I don't know why not. They know how an airplane tragedy means, remember also about the comercial airplane shot down by an American missile in 1988, the 655 Iran Air where 290 people died.

In a war airplanes accidents are always present.
 
And by them first strongly denying it and now admitting it as an "accident" (which could very well have been a consciously anticipated (or rather hoped for) part of the plan) whoever stands to benefit from that tragedy has accomplished his goal; further demonizing Iran and its leadership for being "evil" in the eyes of large portions of the uniformed public. You can hardly set it up more nefariously/sneakily (if we assume this is the case) then how it has happened here. Whoever is behind it thereby created a situation now in which pretty much nobody in the uniformed public will take Iran's claim of "it was a accident" seriously and think instead that it was a deliberate attack by Iran that they obviously tried to cover up with no other player involved who might have tricked them in some way or the other.
 
It is a few days old, yet Aaron Maté interviewed Lawrence Wilkerson. Maté brings up Wesley Clark's old statement (the neocon list of countries to topple) that Wilkerson follows up on while Lawrence blasts the hawks modus. Wilkerson also makes some statements about sitting with Obama in his final stretch whereby no-backbone Obama let it be known that he did not know what to do about the hawks.

Of Trump, Wilkerson is basically saying that the neocon alligators came out of the swamp and grabbed him - Trump wants no war yet he is in a precarious position.

As an aside, since Clark is featured also, there is Clark's old statement backstopped after being a NATO supreme commander who once seemed to be in thick as thieves with KLA terrorist in Kosovo, so never could put to much stock into what he had to say, imo.



As millions of Iranians mourn the US murder of Qassem Soleimani, ex-Bush administration official Col. Lawrence Wilkerson discuses the parallels between Bush’s war on Iraq and Trump’s campaign against Iran; the history of US shunning diplomacy with Tehran; and how an addiction to war drives US foreign policy.

Guest: Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Colin Powell. Currently a distinguished professor at the College of William and Mary.


What a plot twist! It feels amazing that these type of blunders would happen by pure accident/human error, but unfortunately we don't have access to the deeper details, so we have to wait and see.
Yes, it seems odd that an error of this magnitude could happen without some nuances we can't yet understand, so as you said, it is wait and see where this goes.

Other than the Western gloating of see, we were right, Iran's acknowledgement deescalates the situation somewhat, even if they know (if it is the case) that they were set up, they have little choice unless a new 'twist' emerges.
 
I'm surprised by that - it was immediately obvious from the video footage that the plane was shot down. Also, the timing of the event strongly suggested that this was an act of retaliation by Iran. Sure, there is always a possibility of a complex web of intrigue and subterfuge. But overthinking the matter and rampant speculation are counterproductive - especially, since information is scarce.

Sometimes, things are just as they appear.

This is unlikely to be over. I would say, let us stay tuned for more data points before jumping to conclusions. Have you noticed the strange silence from the Russian, Chinese and the Israeli officials on the matter? I wonder what's up with that.

And no, it is not very likely that Iran will compensate the families of the victims. I do not expect such acts of grace from an unhinged regime like Iran - a regime which violently oppresses its own people. I expect deflection of blame and maybe a couple of executions.

And no, nobody painted the plane. That's just silly talk.

2c.
Not sure what you mean not over speculating here what point are you trying to make?
 
Of Trump, Wilkerson is basically saying that the neocon alligators came out of the swamp and grabbed him - Trump wants no war yet he is in a precarious position.
You know, listening Trump reading his discourse and all the lies in it I felt that his tone of voice was very low, almost sad, like he was forced to say all those terrible things. And little by little he gave me the impression of a mechanical discourse, something he did not feel in his guts. A very low tone.Surrounded by all these man he was like a prisoner. Very difficult to see him and listen to him in this situation, this business man that is a President. Does he regret to be President of the USA? I am sure that the answer is yes.
 
And by them first strongly denying it and now admitting it as an "accident" (which could very well have been a consciously anticipated (or rather hoped for) part of the plan) whoever stands to benefit from that tragedy has accomplished his goal; further demonizing Iran and its leadership for being "evil" in the eyes of large portions of the uniformed public.

The strong denials and then the limited admission of guilt are vaguely reminiscent of a psychopathic mind. Of course, it would not be fair to tar the whole country's population with that label - clearly, it is a function of Iran's decision-makers.

Nevertheless, it is very telling and I doubt that it is a part of an elaborate plan to demonise Iran. They simply do not need any help in that department...

The following news item highlights something interesting. Here, we see different reactions to the crisis - deflection of blame to the US, sincere apologies, offer of compensation, etc. I think it demonstrates that there is an internal rift within Iran and it will be fascinating to see how the story develops.

There may be hints of progressive thinking in a country that is basically built on a violent, religious ideology - and bad trigger-happy attitude. I also sense a dash of Imperialist ambitions, perhaps an echo of the ages gone by.

If the US departs the region, it will create a power vacuum. Who will fill the void?

By the way, Ukraine demanding money at this stage of the crisis is in bad taste. Too soon Ukraine - I do hope that the necessary amends are made, truly - though remain sceptical. However, now is not the time to make financial demands.

Canadians seem to be a bit more subtle, which is good to see - certainly, the level of class I would expect from a fantastic country like that.


2.5c
 
I was also really surprised by the announcement of Iran. With that, it must have been done in a way that the evidence is too hard to deny for Iran and that they only could admit it? Or is there another plan behind it? It will be interesting to see in the next days how things further develop and it would be great to hear more about it from the Russian side.
 
See this: ‘I wish I was dead’: Senior IRGC commander accepts full responsibility for downing Ukrainian plane, apologizes to nation

Commander of Aerospace Force of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), Amir Ali Hajizadeh, said he “wished he was dead” upon learning of the Ukrainian jet downing and accepted full responsibility for the incident.

“After hearing about the crash of the Ukrainian plane, I wished to die”, Hajizadeh said during a press conference on Saturday.

The commander explained that the incident occurred when the country was bracing for the potential US strikes and the “likelihood of conflict” between the two nations has been “unprecedented” since the Islamic Revolution of 1979.

According to an early assessment, the Ukrainian plane was erroneously identified as an incoming cruise missile, which resulted in the tragedy.

Added: Pepe Escobar wrote: "This is a very realistic assessment of an extremely sad affair. NONE of this would have happened without the double target assassination. A civilized nation - heir to a great civilization - admits its mistake. When will the Exceptionalists admit to the multitudes they exterminated by mistake?"
 
Last edited:
It looks that Bloomberg is not fond of external linking. Here is that quoted article in full, in case not everyone can access it.

Iran Admits It Shot Down Boeing Jet, Reversing Days of Denials
By Yasna Haghdoost and Arsalan Shahla
11 January 2020, 13:44 GMT+10 Updated on 11 January 2020, 17:36 GMT+10


1x-1.jpg
Rescue workers search the wreckage of a Boeing Co. 737-800 aircraft, operated by Ukraine International Airlines, which crashed shortly after takeoff near Shahedshahr, Iran, on Jan. 8. Photographer: Ali Mohammadi/Bloomberg

Iran admitted it accidentally shot down a Ukrainian jetliner that it mistook for a threat during hostilities with the U.S., marking a dramatic reversal after repeatedly denying such a scenario and accusing Western governments of spreading lies.

Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 was flying close to a sensitive Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps military site when it was downed because of “human error,” the army said after conducting its own investigation. The “culprits” would be identified and referred to judicial authorities, it said.

The three-year-old Boeing Co. 737-800 abruptly stopped transmitting its position and plunged to the ground about two minutes after takeoff from Tehran on Wednesday, killing all 176 aboard. The crash occurred hours after the Islamic Republic started launching rockets against Iraqi bases where U.S. forces are stationed, in retaliation for the killing of Iran’s top general, Qassem Soleimani.

“Iran’s armed forces went on high alert following U.S. threats to target Iranian sites,” the army said in the statement. “Under such highly sensitive and critical circumstances, the Boeing Flight 752 flew close to a sensitive IRGC military site at an altitude and angle that made it appear as a hostile target. The plane was hit due to human error and unintentionally.”

How U.S.-Iran Enmity Grew for Decades, Burst in Days: QuickTake

Iran will send the black boxes of the crashed jet to France as it lacks the technology to decode them, the state-run Islamic Republic News Agency reported. Military officials will elaborate on the crash on state media on Saturday.

Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif blamed “human error at time of crisis caused by US adventurism” for the disaster, according to a post on Twitter. President Hassan Rouhani said the Islamic Republic “deeply regrets the disastrous mistake,” adding further investigations will be carried out into the incident and families of victims would be compensated.

Iran’s actions could threaten to further isolate the country. U.S. sanctions, particularly those aimed at stopping oil sales, have pushed the Iranian economy into recession, prompting Rouhani to accuse the U.S. of waging “economic war” against his country.


As recently as Friday, Iran denied that it had fired a missile at the plane and accused western governments of “psychological warfare.” Officials in multiple western countries have said they believe it was shot down accidentally. A U.S. spy satellite detected the firing of two SA-15 surface-to-air missiles, a person familiar with the intelligence said, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy urged Iran to conduct a “complete and open investigation,” take action on those responsible, and pay compensation.

“The morning was not good today but it brought the truth,” Zelenskiy said on Saturday. “We hope further investigation will be done without artificial delays and obstacles.”


The White House didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment late Friday night.

Earlier: Ukraine Says Missile or Terrorist Responsible for Iran Jet Crash

There are no obvious military sites visible on satellite photos of the plane’s flight path. A power plant and an industrial park are in the area where the Ukrainian jet stopped transmitting its position, as well as large areas of undeveloped land, according to Google.

1x-2-jpg.33199

Rescue workers search the wreckage of a Boeing Co. 737-800 aircraft near Shahedshahr, Iran, on Jan. 8.
Photographer: Ali Mohammadi/Bloomberg


The plane appeared to fly on a normal path to the northwest of the airport on the same heading as the runway from which it departed, according to the flight-tracking service FlightRadar24.

It flew straight for just over two minutes after takeoff, according to the company. At that point, it made a slight turn to the right and continued for another 42 seconds. It disappeared at an altitude of about 7,900 feet, apparently after the radio transmitting its location lost power following the missile attack.

Iran Airports & Air Navigation Co. never received an order to cancel flights, and wasn’t ever made aware of any security issues, the company’s head Siavash Amir-Mokri told the Iranian Labor News Agency.

Accidental Downings
The disaster adds to a list of accidental shootings of civilian aircraft.

In 1988, a U.S. Navy missile cruiser, the U.S.S. Vincennes, downed an Iran Air Airbus A300 over the Persian Gulf, killing 290 passengers and crew. The U.S. military said it mistook the airliner for an Iranian fighter jet, an account disputed by Iran.

In July 2014, a Malaysian Airlines plane carrying 298 people was shot down by a Russian-made Buk surface-to-air missile fired from rebel-controlled territory in eastern Ukraine. The region was the site of a conflict between pro-Russia separatists and Ukrainian military forces, and two military aircraft had been downed just days earlier, an international team concluded.

This week’s tragedy strikes during a deeply challenging period for Boeing, gripped by one of the worst crises in its 103-year history after two deadly crashes involving the 737 Max led to its global idling in March. Iran’s admission of the missile strike relieves concerns of a mechanical failure that could affect other Boeing planes.

A CBS News crew earlier found the impact site unguarded and unsecured, with virtually all pieces of the plane cleared away and scavengers picking through the remaining debris.

— With assistance by Alan Levin, Siraj Datoo, John Harney, and Jon Morgan

(Updates with Ukraine president’s comments in paragraph nine)
 

Attachments

  • 1x-2.jpg
    1x-2.jpg
    1 MB · Views: 173
It is the Airforce general who did the Iranian press conference that I linked to earlier in this post

If one puts oneself in the shoes of these people manning the airdefence, then it is not hard to see how mistakes can happen. They had just lost a key person, the US had threatened them with annihilation and the airspace had shortly before been closed to all flights, from what I gathered. Why and how the plane took off if the airspace had been closed is a little puzzle, but it could be as simple as timing and the ban happened afterwards. The ban was from the FAA and not all non-US airlines follow their guidance.

Trump hinted at it shortly after that a mistake had brought it down. As others have mentioned, then the Israelis are good at preparing the circumstances for 'mistakes' to happen.
 
My hunch for the moment is that Iran was left no other choice than admitting it was "their fault". Or in other words, a sneaky mossad move was set up in some sort of a way that makes it very hard for Iran to not make a fool of themselves by claiming they "were not responsible".
В целом я с этим согласен, но хотел бы сделать несколько замечаний.
Во-первых, исходя из моего опыта работы с электроникой, я скажу, что возможность манипуляции всегда есть. Остро стоит вопрос компетентности.
Во-вторых, если мы допустим возможность манипулирования оборудованием извне, будь то Израиль или кто-то еще, мы не получим никакой информации о нем в открытом доступе, ни из Ирана, ни из России, ни откуда-либо еще.
В-третьих, я хотел бы напомнить вам, что сама Украина была на нынешнем месте Ирана в 2001 году, когда во время своих учений ПВО она по ошибке сбила российский пассажирский самолет на Черном море. Я также хотел бы напомнить о категорически противоположной реакции украинских властей в то время. Они формально не признали своей вины даже тогда, когда начали выплачивать компенсацию пострадавшим.


Translation
I generally agree with this, but I would like to make a few comments.
First, in my experience with electronics, I will say that the possibility of manipulation is always there. There is an acute issue of competence. Secondly, if we allow the possibility of manipulating the equipment from the outside, whether it is Israel or anyone else, we will not get any information about it in the public domain, either from Iran, or from Russia, or from anywhere else.
Third, I would like to remind you that Ukraine itself were at the current place of Iran in 2001, when, during its air defense exercises, it mistakenly shot down a Russian passenger plane upon Black Sea. I would also like to recall the categorically opposite reaction of the Ukrainian authorities at that time. They did not formally admit their guilt even when they began to pay compensation to the victims.
 
Back
Top Bottom