Coronavirus Pandemic: Apocalypse Now! Or exaggerated scare story?

Zaphod said:
We have frontline medical personnel, crying in to cameras. Taking their masks off at the end of 18 hour days to show bruises, lines down their face, puffed out features - begging us to take this seriously becuase they don't know how much longer they can stand the tragic stories. They look totally physically and emotionally exhausted. Are you suggesting they're acting?. that they're in on the ruse?
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The personel doesn't need to be acting. All it takes is to direct panicking patients to a few select and usually near full-capacity facilities, to overwhelm the personel there. Contagious pathogens and death are part of life, they haven't been invented in 2020. It's the first time in history that people have been led to believe so though.
 
Zaphod said:
But.. what kind of a national response to a pandemic could there be, that wouldn't intrinsically impact your rights?
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That sort of thinking is what makes this "live exercise", as Pompeo put it recently, so pernicious. It's the same thinking that led millions to back the Iraq war, the Patriot Act, and thousands of other draconian encroachments throughout history. It's so plausible - "There's a threat, so please do whatever it takes to destroy it!"

Zaphod I'd suggest reading deeper into this thread and weighing the data as it's presented, rather than relying on a "they say this, but the other side says that, so the truth must be in between" sort of reasoning. Because, as is often pointed out on this forum, landing halfway between the truth and a lie is a victory for the liar.

Don't forget we're giving up our freedoms and being told to turn on one another for a virus that is mostly benign. As a recent SOTT Focus pointed out, "According to the official data, this 'rampaging plague' is mercilessly slaughtering an 'immense' 0.0001% of the world population every day." That's according to cooked up official data!
 
I don't think there is ever any excuse that is valid to take our rights away. Once rights become conditional, they become meaningless. If people have the right information, and ability to think critically, they will make the best choices for themselves.
For instance, if this was a real pandemic with a high mortality rate, those under threat would isolate and protect themselves as best they could, without need for compulsion. Some may not, and suffer the consequence (which should be their choice as long as they don't endanger others). The law should only come into play when someone infringes on others rights or safety.
Those who trade freedom for safety, deserve neither and will lose both.
 
Zaphod said:
We have frontline medical personnel, crying in to cameras. Taking their masks off at the end of 18 hour days to show bruises, lines down their face, puffed out features - begging us to take this seriously becuase they don't know how much longer they can stand the tragic stories. They look totally physically and emotionally exhausted. Are you suggesting they're acting?. that they're in on the ruse?
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Some of them are indeed fake.
www.sott.net

Media manipulation: CBS News posts fraudulent video of ICU nurse crying over poor working conditions -- Sott.net

CBS News posted a video of a nurse who claimed she quit her job after being asked to work in a coronavirus ICU without a face mask. "America is not prepared, and nurses are not being protected," said the ICU nurse in the video. "I quit my job...
www.sott.net www.sott.net
And as I've mentioned before, in order to make it look like hospitals are overloaded, you only have to find one and film there. There's always a hospital overloaded somewhere, 365 days a year.
By the way, did you notice that video from a hospital that the media presented as being from Italy and a week later the same being presented as being in New York? No foul play there? You think they just made a mistake?
If all hospitals looked like what you're describing, then you'd have a point. But we know for a fact that it's like 1 out of 1000, and in the remaining 999 there's mostly nothing going on (as evidenced by many people in this thread, including medical personnel). In fact, people who need it are not being treated because of this bullshit.

Zaphod said:
Absolutely. But.. what kind of a national response to a pandemic could there be, that wouldn't intrinsically impact your rights?
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The kind we use every year for the flu??
 
Hi everyone,

Zaphod, I respect your attempt to be balanced on this subject, especially since everything seems to go crazy everywhere with tons of opposite information.
Nevertheless, As some people here told you, this looooonnng thread is full of material that brings many many many good arguments and ground feedback about what's happening and what's probably next.

Besides, I'd say that, from a STS point of view, it is only a logical mechanism and at the end, it's simply History... Take a closer look, for example, at the consequences of the 9/11 or the terror attacks in France regarding laws and civil rights (Patriot acts, law on Intelligence, wars...).

Basically, it's always the same thing, 1. Bring a problem 2. Do a lot of propaganda about it increasing fear 3. Break the opposite camp by any means necessary 4. Bring the solution which is terrible but "unavoidable compare to the problem". When you think about it, it's pretty smart and a good old tactic. But, hey, at some point, more and more people can see through it....

Anyway, if you agree with the fact that :
- STS work hard to control people making chaos and fear like hell on Earth
- Many data are strange and unclear like the response and the measures compare to the ground feedback, the results and the consequences
- History tells us that we cannot trust PTB to do the best for people
- In the end, the only who will really benefit from this situation will be the same

then, it could help you to choose a side of the razor...

Generally speaking, try to see this global picture from the sky. It might be showing you some kind of well-thinking agenda to accelerate the STS handling on the global population, ... or not....

My 2 cents
 
Zaphod said:
Absolutely. But.. what kind of a national response to a pandemic could there be, that wouldn't intrinsically impact your rights?.. Of course it's impacted your rights, the only way to impact the contagious efficacity of the virus, is to pull people apart. It's exactly the response you'd expect with a genuine contagion
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I don't think your reasoning has anything to do with inadequate amounts of data.

I think Dante said it best “The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.”
 
Zaphod said:
I can assure you I'm gripped by nothing

Way more people have been infected than officially registered.. yes, that's true - but the other side of the equation also holds true.. way more have died from it than have been officially registered.. the stats are total chaos - exactly what you'd expect

Point 2 is interesting.. It doesn't really demonstrate anything since different countries are different cultures etc.. but it is interesting,
agreed.

Point 3.. not sure I understand

Point 4 - totally agreed.. It doesn't however mean the virus doesn't exist or isn't a problem

Point 5 - you aren't breaking anything to me - sorry to break that to you

I don't get why people think this is cut-n-dried.. why does anyone have a horse in this race, to the extent of using argumentative technique? (not you) .. why not just state the points?
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@Zaphod

Point 3 - I'm trying to say that diseases exist... New ones come up that weren't there before. Yes, people will get infected and die. This is sad. But you can't stop nature. We're lucky - we've been dealt a good hand as far as pandemics go. This "pandemic" has a death rate of less than 0.5% (probably between 0.1% - 0.2%) once you factor in everything. That's pretty low for a pandemic!!!!

The genie is out the bottle, it can't be put back in. Corona virus is here to stay.... What miracle do you think will performed to put it back in the bottle? Are you thinking a vaccine will do it? I'm genuinely curious to know.

@Zaphod, I've never met you but I respect you. You are a long standing member of this forum which means clearly you have real substance to you. People don't necessarily have to agree in there views but we can talk, discuss, exchange data with the aim of seeing what is closest to objective reality. I just wanted to mention this to you as an addendum to my responses.
 
Zaphod said:
Absolutely. But.. what kind of a national response to a pandemic could there be, that wouldn't intrinsically impact your rights?.. Of course it's impacted your rights, the only way to impact the contagious efficacity of the virus, is to pull people apart. It's exactly the response you'd expect with a genuine contagion
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Actual deaths don't even come close to justifying the lockdown. There have been several much more serious flu pandemics over the decades, which did not elicit anything close to this response. The Hong Kong flu in the 60s killed over a million people, for instance; life went on without a hitch.

Elsewhere you stated something to the effect that actual deaths are undercounted. This is a cope in my opinion. It's extremely difficult to hide dead bodies, so the argument that uncounted deaths compensate for undetected infections, when in the latter case we have large amounts of hard data indicating infections are far more widespread than reported according to official numbers, and in the former case there is nothing but airy speculation to substantiate the notion of undetected deaths, is just an attempt to avoid cognitive dissonance by clinging on to a hallucination.
 
Found this from a nurse speaking out on FB on behalf of her friend who is in the "front lines", since her friend is scared of the reppercussions of speaking out. She speaks about the horror of the front line nurses and doctors who are being silenced for even questioning the narrative.


Some of her talking points;
“Patients left to rot and die”
“Never seen so much neglect”
“No one cares”
“The blind leading the blind”
“Murder”
“Nightmare”
“Out of a horror movie”
“I don’t want to be a part of this”

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10105710349919968
 
Zaphod said:
Digging which quite clearly you're not prepared to do. If you're so sure the evidence is there, why not just provide the evidence instead of condescension? I'm a reasonable chap with no horse in this race

The evidence is not there as, as you've pointed out, the world has reacted to this in a different way to the way it reacts to flu - thus you can't compare stats as being like for like, and the stats at this point are total chaos anyway, as society is struggling to even get a shape on this virus.

There is no stated motivation for the malignant intent you describe - and in fact, I'm struggling to even think of one. Who benefits from the rubble of a once thriving society? How does STS that lives in that society, even benefit more from that, than the alternative of letting the society thrive and feed off the happy, willing participants?
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Go back to the start and read as much as you can and then go speak to people your neighbours,your friends and then Open your eyes because there wide shut.
We don't need fools now we need those that can see clearly and actually are living the present and can see the wake behind them which is the Past.
 
SOTTREADER said:
@Zaphod, I've never met you but I respect you. You are a long standing member of this forum which means clearly you have real substance to you. People don't necessarily have to agree in there views but we can talk, discuss, exchange data with the aim of seeing what is closest to objective reality. I just wanted to mention this to you as an addendum to my responses.
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I have a somewhat different take. @Zaphod has very little respect for the forum and it's members. All of the quite capable, intelligent, rational, and insightful members here who have been scouring many information sources for months now and networking together to reach similar conclusions are somehow all wrong. Who are, it seems, off on a tangent divorced from reality while @Zaphod is able to be more nuanced and rational in his/her thinking. And further more insist that we rehash almost 600 pages of information to spoon feed @Zaphod the information that led us to our conclusions.

No thanks
 
Talas said:
Go back to the start and read as much as you can and then go speak to people your neighbours,your friends and then Open your eyes because there wide shut.
We don't need fools now we need those that can see clearly and actually are living the present and can see the wake behind them which is the Past.
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Oh for the love of god.. if you can't deal with open discussion without resorting to invective, then you're in the wrong place
 
genero81 said:
I have a somewhat different take. @Zaphod has very little respect for the forum and it's members. All of the quite capable, intelligent, rational, and insightful members here who have been scouring many information sources for months now and networking together to reach similar conclusions are somehow all wrong. Who are, it seems, off on a tangent divorced from reality while @Zaphod is able to be more nuanced and rational in his/her thinking. And further more insist that we rehash almost 600 pages of information to spoon feed @Zaphod the information that led us to our conclusions.

No thanks
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Heavens.. I'm just putting my thoughts.. I don't get why it would invoke that kind of response
 
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