Coronavirus Pandemic: Apocalypse Now! Or exaggerated scare story?

[Laura]

I'm not sure I agree that all my rights have been taken away. Some of them have been temporarily curtailed - and that remains true until it becomes abundantly clear that it's not just a curtailment, and that it's far from temporary. You might postulate that it will be too late by then and you might be right, but which side of this razor thin line do you want to stand?

I'm not sure how you would expect a society to manage and control a viral epidemic, but I can't see how it could ever take a shape that would be vastly different to the one we see. So can you say for definite, the curtailment of rights is a ruse to rob the populace of their liberty?

.. it could be true, but I wouldn't want to say it for definite.. not yet, at least

Are you for real?

 

[mrtn]

I think the governments do have some knowledge about 'other' effects the virus could have, so partly they may onestly try to slow down the spread, but not because of deaths. The may actually be more afraid of people that have recovered and use the lockdown to observe changes in behaviour of people.

 

[Siberia]

This was a bit disappointing:

Moscow: Some Countries Excuse Own Insufficient COVID-19 Response by Attacking WHO

Last week, Trump announced that the US would no longer be funding the World Health Organisation because the latter failed to report accurately on the coronavirus.

sputniknews.com

I'd like to think that there's some wise strategy behind this statement, but right now the reason escapes me...

Well, Russia has consistently been treating such international organizations as the UN, the WHO, etc. as "not perfect, but better than nothing". The strategy behind it seems to be that if some international organization defines some global policy, it's better to be an active member of it, than an outsider.

Remember, for example, the situation with breastfeeding where the U.S. baby formula manufacturers were lobbying their interests via the WHO? Ultimately it was Russia who stepped in to stop this:

Russia steps in to stop US bullying on the WHO's anti-breastfeeding policy -- Sott.net

The US pressured Ecuador to drop a pro-breastfeeding resolution by threatening to drop aid, the NYT reports. A breastfeeding advocate confirmed the report to RT, stating that losing money would be a "big deal" for poor countries. According to the...

www.sott.net

So the fact that Russia is "friends" with the WHO and an active participant of the WHO is not necessarily a bad thing, or so it seems.

 

[Aeneas]

I'm just offering the idea, that given the info we have, we can't by necessity attribute malignance to what we see, and we can't state that it's unquestionably fake with or without malignant intent

Dude, if you think that's what's going on, then you haven't been paying attention at all.

Zaphod, if you want to see evidence, then start with page one in this thread and you will see that there is enough evidence to fill a library or two.
It comes down to not being willing to accept the implications that this was done with foresight and malignancy.

Joe said it well earlier:

I know most of us know this, but I thought I'd share the thought anyway in case it's useful.

A lot of words could be saved if we all just accept that the reason many people have such a negative response to anyone questioning the lock downs is because they have a strong aversion to the implications, rather than the details, of the argument that is made.

Most arguments I've seen so far are valid, yet many people reject them out of hand, often quite obtusely. Such people are obviously, therefore, not interested in the rights or wrongs of what you are saying, but rather that you are saying it at all.

For them, to question the lock downs implies much more terrifying things than a virus or the prospect of being virtually imprisoned in their homes and the economy destroyed for years to come.

 

[Zaphod]

Actually, the information is available to make an informed decision. Covid is not dangerous enough to justify all the curtailing of rights that we are experiencing. That was the point of my initial question, to create the opportunity for you to realize that the virus is an excuse to accrue more power, more control, make some money etc.

All the measures being implemented to contain or stop the spread or flatten the curve or whatever, they're completely unnecessary, so the goal isn't to contain a "real" pandemic, the goal is to implement the measures.

So let me say it one more time: A virus that isn't half as deadly as the normal seasonal flu, is being used as an excuse to confine people home, suspend their civil rights of assembly and free speech, collapse the economy and accrue emergency powers. Being that the virus is half as deadly as the seasonal flu, which we have every season without all these measures, can you see how the goal is not to respond to a threat, but to create a threat to implement the measures?

The goal is not to protect the population, is to convince them that these measures are there to protect them.

This thread is full of evidence, numbers and stories that make what I am stating here abundantly clear. It just takes some digging.

Digging which quite clearly you're not prepared to do. If you're so sure the evidence is there, why not just provide the evidence instead of condescension? I'm a reasonable chap with no horse in this race

The evidence is not there as, as you've pointed out, the world has reacted to this in a different way to the way it reacts to flu - thus you can't compare stats as being like for like, and the stats at this point are total chaos anyway, as society is struggling to even get a shape on this virus.

There is no stated motivation for the malignant intent you describe - and in fact, I'm struggling to even think of one. Who benefits from the rubble of a once thriving society? How does STS that lives in that society, even benefit more from that, than the alternative of letting the society thrive and feed off the happy, willing participants?

 

[Aeneas]

There is no stated motivation for the malignant intent you describe - and in fact, I'm struggling to even think of one. Who benefits from the rubble of a once thriving society? How does STS even benefit more from that, than the alternative of letting it thrive? Now's my time for being condescending - how aggressively have you actually dissected what you're thinking?

You are talking as someone who comes in having read the last page of a book and then thinks you can actually say anything meaningful about the finer details of the book. Unless you are prepared to read the evidence embedded in this thread, then I feel that you are just here to make noise.

 

[Agron]

We have frontline medical personnel, crying in to cameras. Taking their masks off at the end of 18 hour days to show bruises, lines down their face, puffed out features - begging us to take this seriously becuase they don't know how much longer they can stand the tragic stories. They look totally physically and emotionally exhausted. Are you suggesting they're acting?. that they're in on the ruse?

Depends on how you look at things. This is a "crisis" of epic proportions.... on all imaginable levels! So if there are any things that just pretend to be good and to work but are actually doing things that are parasitic in nature and detrimental to human evolution, they are now getting what they deserve. The question now is will it all change for better or for worse.

 

[FlyingMystic]

I'm not sure I agree that all my rights have been taken away. Some of them have been temporarily curtailed - and that remains true until it becomes abundantly clear that it's not just a curtailment, and that it's far from temporary. You might postulate that it will be too late by then and you might be right, but which side of this razor thin line do you want to stand?

I'm not sure how you would expect a society to manage and control a viral epidemic, but I can't see how it could ever take a shape that would be vastly different to the one we see. So can you say for definite, the curtailment of rights is a ruse to rob the populace of their liberty?

.. it could be true, but I wouldn't want to say it for definite.. not yet, at least

When have we ever had our rights taken away and then later down the road given them back? Once our rights are taken they're usually gone for good unless we stand up and fight to have them restored.

 

[Zaphod]

When have we ever had our rights taken away and then later down the road given them back? Once our rights are taken they're usually gone for good unless we stand up and fight to have them restored.

Absolutely. But.. what kind of a national response to a pandemic could there be, that wouldn't intrinsically impact your rights?.. Of course it's impacted your rights, the only way to impact the contagious efficacity of the virus, is to pull people apart. It's exactly the response you'd expect with a genuine contagion

 

[SOTTREADER]

Yes, there's no argument from me there. That consideration can't help but sit at the forefront for most of us, I'm sure. I don't know about you, but I currently, feel ill-qualified and ill-equipped to make that judgement as to which it is.. I just don't know.. I'm not seeing an evidence based reason to jump to either side of that line at this point.

Ah, welcome to the party @Zaphod, thee who is gripped by fear. Not to long ago I thought the Corona virus was the real deal - check out the earlier pages of this behemoth of a thread. You will see how outspoken I was.

A few things I learnt along the way to my current viewpoint

• There are waaaaaay more people infected than officially registered as infected. Recent antibody tests carried out in New York, LA etc have gone so much as to confirm this. Logically, this means the death rate is less than predicted.
• Countries instituting draconian lockdown measures aren't fairing better than countries with lax measures - Sweden & Belarus aren't exactly witnessing massive deaths
• Yes, covid does kill and this is another thing that can kill amongst many things - people who are old and have other conditions are at a higher risk but they are at a higher risk from many other illnesses regardless.
• Neferious entities have latched onto this pandemic to drive agendas that they would otherwise not be able to under normal circumstances... The old well known adage holds true "Don't let a good crisis go to waste".. my friend, when was the last time there was a similar crisis? (Think and you'll see this crisis is a godsend ) Agendas being driven include but are not limited to - Mass vaccinations, more intrusive surveillance, control of movement, big psychological warfare on the populace, economic warfare against small / medium sized businesses and not to mention diminishing the middle class even further etc.
• As much as you'd like to think your government or people like Bill Gates care about you, they really don't (I'm sorry to break it to you). To someone like Bill, you are just someone that's a) consuming and therefore bad for the environment b) adding to the numbers of people when the world needs to be depopulated.
• To take away attention from other things happening in nature, the wider environment, not to mention the cosmos.

If you think that what is happening is the best way to handle this, then I'm sorry to say you've been hoodwinked. Maybe you can't see it, but you have - I'm being kind enough to let you know. Your job is to study, investigate rather than sit there and be fed from the mainstream media - that's junk food. Put the effort in, step above your fear and you might just see something different.

 

[FlyingMystic]

Absolutely. But.. what kind of a national response to a pandemic could there be, that wouldn't intrinsically impact your rights?.. Of course it's impacted your rights, the only way to impact the contagious efficacity of the virus, is to pull people apart. It's exactly the response you'd expect with a genuine contagion

Never in our known recorded history have we forcibly quarantined healthy people. Therefore it's not the response we would expect.

 

[Alejo]

Digging which quite clearly you're not prepared to do. If you're so sure the evidence is there, why not just provide the evidence instead of condescension? I'm a reasonable chap with no horse in this race

The evidence is not there as, as you've pointed out, the world has reacted to this in a different way to the way it reacts to flu - thus you can't compare stats as being like for like, and the stats at this point are total chaos anyway, as society is struggling to even get a shape on this virus.

There is no stated motivation for the malignant intent you describe - and in fact, I'm struggling to even think of one. Who benefits from the rubble of a once thriving society? How does STS even benefit more from that, than the alternative of letting it thrive?

I wasn't attempting to be condescending, my words were sincere, the suggestion was honest. I can take the time to bring the evidence if you still would like it. But I am sure you can understand what I mean when I said "any of the 580 pages of this thread contain the evidence" correct?

But let's start here, with the most generous of numbers: Coronavirus Update (Live): 2,950,829 Cases and 204,435 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer 97% of cases (1,841,134) are mild, no complications have you heard that number in any of the news reports? nope, all you hear as you have clearly shown is the deaths, the nurses and the new infections.. no recoveries, no positive news. Can you agree to that? You may dig further through that site and see the risk group, the bulk of the diseased, being older individuals with compromised immune systems and debilitating conditions (cancer, cardio vascular disease, diabetes, etc)

Take that a step further and, let's find the rationale to declare someone's death as a covid death. This should be a simple, basic question, if this is a deadly virus, how does one know that one person has died from it. How do they determine the virus actually killed someone? how does it kill someone? I'm sure someone knows this in order to report the number of deaths, right?

Well... here's the CDC instructing people to declare someone's death as CAUSED by covid even if only suspected that it may have been involved. ( https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf ) So, it turns out that they don't know how it kills or when it does, they're just telling everyone to call it a covid death period. You are not told this, all you're told is "new record of deaths by covid reached today in NY or the UK"

As far as the STS goes, it's pretty clear to me that having a submissive population afraid of dying, that isn't really dying, is the perfect set up isn't it? They will be obedient, scared and be ready to denounce their neighbors for daring to step outside, causing a great deal of suffering and lies. Can you see that?

 

[Kay Kim]

It looks like you're right - she just responded to reports of her own death:

Dr Elisa Granato (@Prokaryota) | Twitter

The latest Tweets from Dr Elisa Granato (@Prokaryota). Postdoc | Microbiologist | @OxZooDept @OxfordBiochem @ZooOxECRN Evolution & ecology of tiny things. she/her 🇪🇺🦠🧫🔬. Oxford, England

twitter.com

So I allowed myself to get baited. At least it's amother trigger I'm aware of now.

Just saw Aragorn posting the same tweet while I'm typing this reply.

I guess you can't trust any media any more. Lying about someone's death like that should be punished with a fine at the least though, just think of how this could have affected her friends and family.

You never know which is truth, it might be both.
I am suspicious about this incident, maybe this is 4th density STS trying to do next stage.
From this information give to the public, so people think that the vaccine is safe and it will be like a almost death but It will be helpful to take, so most will believe that lies.
But then, most of them replace by 4th density soulless robots or them.

A: All it takes is a “hospital visit “.
But then we never know, Laura should ask about it next session.
Coronavirus Pandemic: Apocalypse Now! Or exaggerated scare story?

 

[Jacques]

Absolutely. But.. what kind of a national response to a pandemic could there be, that wouldn't intrinsically impact your rights?.. Of course it's impacted your rights, the only way to impact the contagious efficacity of the virus, is to pull people apart. It's exactly the response you'd expect with a genuine contagion

Have you watched that video?

 

[Zaphod]

Ah, welcome to the party @Zaphod, thee who is gripped by fear. Not to long ago I thought the Corona virus was the real deal - check out the earlier pages of this behemoth of a thread. You will see how outspoken I was.

A few things I learnt along the way to my current viewpoint

• There are waaaaaay more people infected than officially registered as infected. Recent antibody tests carried out in New York, LA etc have gone so much as to confirm this. Logically, this means the death rate is less than predicted.
• Countries instituting draconian lockdown measures aren't fairing better than countries with lax measures - Sweden & Belarus aren't exactly witnessing massive deaths
• Yes, covid does kill and this is another thing that can kill amongst many things - people who are old and have other conditions are at a higher risk but they are at a higher risk from many other illnesses regardless.
• Neferious entities have latched onto this pandemic to drive agendas that they would otherwise not be able to under normal circumstances... The old well known adage holds true "Don't let a good crisis go to waste".. my friend, when was the last time there was a similar crisis? (Think and you'll see this crisis is a godsend ) Agendas being driven include but are not limited to - Mass vaccinations, more intrusive surveillance, control of movement, big psychological warfare on the populace, economic warfare against small / medium sized businesses and not to mention diminishing the middle class even further etc.
• As much as you'd like to think your government or people like Bill Gates care about you, they really don't (I'm sorry to break it to you). To someone like Bill, you are just someone that's a) consuming and therefore bad for the environment b) adding to the numbers of people when the world needs to be depopulated.
• To take away attention from other things happening in nature, the wider environment, not to mention the cosmos.

If you think that what is happening is the best way to handle this, then I'm sorry to say you've been hoodwinked. Maybe you can't see it, but you have - I'm being kind enough to let you know. Your job is to study, investigate rather than sit there and be fed from the mainstream media - that's junk food. Put the effort in, step above your fear and you might just see something different.

I can assure you I'm gripped by nothing

Way more people have been infected than officially registered.. yes, that's true - but the other side of the equation also holds true.. way more have died from it than have been officially registered.. the stats are total chaos - exactly what you'd expect

Point 2 is interesting.. It doesn't really demonstrate anything since different countries are different cultures etc.. but it is interesting,
agreed.

Point 3.. not sure I understand

Point 4 - totally agreed.. It doesn't however mean the virus doesn't exist or isn't a problem

Point 5 - you aren't breaking anything to me - sorry to break that to you

I don't get why people think this is cut-n-dried.. why does anyone have a horse in this race, to the extent of using argumentative technique? (not you) .. why not just state the points?