Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine
- Thread starter Keit
- Start date
angelburst29
The Living Force
It's been three years already since the deadly MH17 plane crash in Ukraine, and yet so far not a single person has been brought to justice, while the investigation drags on.
Three Years Since MH17 Crash: What is Stopping the Truth From Coming to Light (Photos)
https://sputniknews.com/world/201707171055612291-mh-17-plane-crash-investigation-results/
Malaysian Airlines' Boeing 777 crashed in eastern Ukraine in July 2014 while flying to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam. All 298 passengers and crew aboard the aircraft died in the incident.
The Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT) tasked with probing the crash announced in September that the MH17 airliner was allegedly downed by a Buk missile system, which was brought from Russia and after the crash returned there.
However, Russia's Almaz-Antey concern rejected the findings of the probe, saying that three simulations showed that the missile was launched from the Zaroshchenskoye area, which was controlled by Ukraine's army at the time of the incident.
He recalled that Ukraine failed to close its airspace over the territory where hostilities with the use of combat planes and air defense systems were in place at the time. Kiev only fully closed Ukrainian airspace three hours after the MH17 was downed.
Ardayev was echoed by Russian aviation expert and member of the World Flight Safety Fund Sergey Melnichenko, who said that back then, Kiev, in fact, partially closed the sky over eastern Ukraine's Donbass region.
"The question is how it was done and whether the measures taken by Kiev were sufficient to fully ensure the security of the airspace over Ukrainian territory," Vladimir Ardayev quoted Melnichenko as saying.
"The main threat to flight safety in the region at the time was that neither Ukraine nor the European Organization for the Safety of Air Navigation, of which Ukraine is a member, duly published information that the airspace over the territory on which the fighting is conducted should be closed to the full depth (that is, the height) of the flight," he pointed out.
Melnichenko cited both political and financial reasons for Ukraine's foot-dragging on the closure of its airspace. According to him, closing the sky over part of Ukrainian territory would mean Kiev's recognition of the fact that it was unable to control the situation on its own territory.
Financial reasons pertain to the fact that the use of Ukrainian airspace by foreign air carriers contributes millions of dollars to the country's state coffers.
Melnichenko recalled that on July 12, Ukraine published a Notice To Airman or NOTAM which restricted the airspace over East Ukraine up to the level of 9.75 kilometers (32,000 feet), which, however, failed to save the MH17 plane which was downed at an altitude of 10 kilometers (33,000 feet).
In this regard, aviation security expert Mark Zee specifically pointed to the "vague language" employed in the Ukraine-related NOTAM.
"To the pilot, to the dispatcher, and to the crew of MH17 it's indecipherable. It looks the same as every other routine TRA [Temporary Restricted Area]," Zee pointed out in his article titled "MH17: a darker truth" and published at the medium.com website.
Melnichenko, for his part, said that pilots sometimes receive dozens of pages of NOTAM warnings and that they just have no time look through all of them.
According to him, "Ukrainian authorities neglected all these circumstances when instead of fully closing the flights over the territory of hostilities they just issued an absolutely incoherent notification; passengers and crew of almost any aircraft could fall victim to their actions."
As for the JIT's allegations that the MH17 airliner was allegedly shot downed by a Buk missile system, which was wheeled in from Russian territory, they hold no water, spokesman for Russia's Almaz-Antey concern Mikhail Malyshevsky told Sputnik.
The JIT's conclusions "cannot have sufficient technical justification to assert that Russia in any way could be involved in the crash of the Malaysian Boeing in the summer of 2014," Malyshevsky said, adding that the plane was downed by a missile equipped with the obsolete 9P314warhead, missiles which have long been out of service in Russia, but which are still used by Ukraine's armed forces.
The Russian military in turn draw attention to the fact that the main sources of information for the JIT's investigation were the Internet and Ukraine, a country a priori responsible for the crash of the aircraft over its territory.
Almaz-Antey experts also seriously doubt the reliability of the results of field experiments carried out by international investigators, claiming that they, in particular, used an American missile that is structurally different from the Buk rocket. While the concern conducted its tests with a rocket from this complex.
Although Almaz-Antey and the Russian Defense Ministry handed over all their documents on the matter to the international investigation team, it is still unclear whether they will be taken into account. The JIT's mandate expires at the end of January 2018, when the group is due to submit its final report.
"The investigation prompts a lot of questions because there are serious problems pertaining to proof of the versions. The data collected by the JIT is unlikely to help in exactly determining what happened, and I doubt that new evidence will appear before January 1, 2018," Russian law expert lim Bishenov told Sputnik.
Dutch Royal Couple Participate in Event Commemorating 3 Years Since MH17 Crash (Video)
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201707171055610698-netherlands-mh17-anniversary-commemoration-royal/
Three Years Since MH17 Crash: What is Stopping the Truth From Coming to Light (Photos)
https://sputniknews.com/world/201707171055612291-mh-17-plane-crash-investigation-results/
Malaysian Airlines' Boeing 777 crashed in eastern Ukraine in July 2014 while flying to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam. All 298 passengers and crew aboard the aircraft died in the incident.
The Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT) tasked with probing the crash announced in September that the MH17 airliner was allegedly downed by a Buk missile system, which was brought from Russia and after the crash returned there.
However, Russia's Almaz-Antey concern rejected the findings of the probe, saying that three simulations showed that the missile was launched from the Zaroshchenskoye area, which was controlled by Ukraine's army at the time of the incident.
He recalled that Ukraine failed to close its airspace over the territory where hostilities with the use of combat planes and air defense systems were in place at the time. Kiev only fully closed Ukrainian airspace three hours after the MH17 was downed.
Ardayev was echoed by Russian aviation expert and member of the World Flight Safety Fund Sergey Melnichenko, who said that back then, Kiev, in fact, partially closed the sky over eastern Ukraine's Donbass region.
"The question is how it was done and whether the measures taken by Kiev were sufficient to fully ensure the security of the airspace over Ukrainian territory," Vladimir Ardayev quoted Melnichenko as saying.
"The main threat to flight safety in the region at the time was that neither Ukraine nor the European Organization for the Safety of Air Navigation, of which Ukraine is a member, duly published information that the airspace over the territory on which the fighting is conducted should be closed to the full depth (that is, the height) of the flight," he pointed out.
Melnichenko cited both political and financial reasons for Ukraine's foot-dragging on the closure of its airspace. According to him, closing the sky over part of Ukrainian territory would mean Kiev's recognition of the fact that it was unable to control the situation on its own territory.
Financial reasons pertain to the fact that the use of Ukrainian airspace by foreign air carriers contributes millions of dollars to the country's state coffers.
Melnichenko recalled that on July 12, Ukraine published a Notice To Airman or NOTAM which restricted the airspace over East Ukraine up to the level of 9.75 kilometers (32,000 feet), which, however, failed to save the MH17 plane which was downed at an altitude of 10 kilometers (33,000 feet).
In this regard, aviation security expert Mark Zee specifically pointed to the "vague language" employed in the Ukraine-related NOTAM.
"To the pilot, to the dispatcher, and to the crew of MH17 it's indecipherable. It looks the same as every other routine TRA [Temporary Restricted Area]," Zee pointed out in his article titled "MH17: a darker truth" and published at the medium.com website.
Melnichenko, for his part, said that pilots sometimes receive dozens of pages of NOTAM warnings and that they just have no time look through all of them.
According to him, "Ukrainian authorities neglected all these circumstances when instead of fully closing the flights over the territory of hostilities they just issued an absolutely incoherent notification; passengers and crew of almost any aircraft could fall victim to their actions."
As for the JIT's allegations that the MH17 airliner was allegedly shot downed by a Buk missile system, which was wheeled in from Russian territory, they hold no water, spokesman for Russia's Almaz-Antey concern Mikhail Malyshevsky told Sputnik.
The JIT's conclusions "cannot have sufficient technical justification to assert that Russia in any way could be involved in the crash of the Malaysian Boeing in the summer of 2014," Malyshevsky said, adding that the plane was downed by a missile equipped with the obsolete 9P314warhead, missiles which have long been out of service in Russia, but which are still used by Ukraine's armed forces.
The Russian military in turn draw attention to the fact that the main sources of information for the JIT's investigation were the Internet and Ukraine, a country a priori responsible for the crash of the aircraft over its territory.
Almaz-Antey experts also seriously doubt the reliability of the results of field experiments carried out by international investigators, claiming that they, in particular, used an American missile that is structurally different from the Buk rocket. While the concern conducted its tests with a rocket from this complex.
Although Almaz-Antey and the Russian Defense Ministry handed over all their documents on the matter to the international investigation team, it is still unclear whether they will be taken into account. The JIT's mandate expires at the end of January 2018, when the group is due to submit its final report.
"The investigation prompts a lot of questions because there are serious problems pertaining to proof of the versions. The data collected by the JIT is unlikely to help in exactly determining what happened, and I doubt that new evidence will appear before January 1, 2018," Russian law expert lim Bishenov told Sputnik.
Dutch Royal Couple Participate in Event Commemorating 3 Years Since MH17 Crash (Video)
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201707171055610698-netherlands-mh17-anniversary-commemoration-royal/
Palinurus said:
What a lie, it was nothing but political motives!
angelburst29 said:
Yes, and I think that the reason why they decided recently that suspects will be prosecuted in the Netherlands, is to give the victims' families and others the idea that they're still doing something useful, just in time before the third anniversary of the crash.
Dutch media is posting articles about the anniversary now, and I came across one about a person who checked the people in (see this post). It was a touching message, and it made me sad to think that it's most often innocent people who die because of the evil agenda/greed of a few.
Oxajil said:
Snippet of the article you shared:
Kind of sickening that the relatives can find comfort because Rutte tells them justice will be served.
It's like getting hugged by someone who covertly helped murder your family while he whispers in your ear that he is there for you.
MH17 showed that the Netherlands is not just a mere Vassal of the US. Above all, it's a good team player within the Empire. Nexttime when masses of people need to be murdered for the greed of the psychopaths in charge. They know who to call.
Palinurus
The Living Force
Thanks to all three of you for these new additions. :)
A round-up of some coverage elsewhere:
http://nltimes.nl/2017/07/17/mh17-monument-unveiled-memorial-3-year-anniversary
http://nltimes.nl/2017/07/17/mh17-memorial-moving-important-finding-perpetrators-says-survivor
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/07/three-years-on-a-memorial-to-the-mh17-victims-is-opened-near-amsterdam/
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-plane-crash/three-years-later-families-remember-those-lost-downed-flight-mh17-n783656
https://thewest.com.au/news/world/mh17-monument-in-netherlands-opened-on-third-anniversary-of-plane-crash-ng-b88538801z
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/3-years-on-families-commemorate-loved-ones-lost-on-mh17/2017/07/17/149c56a2-6ad5-11e7-abbc-a53480672286_story.html?utm_term=.2f20e52284e0
http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/3-years-on-families-commemorate-loved-ones-lost-on-mh17/wcm/68d3ea09-7070-4bef-8dd9-4fe69ed9f349
http://www.dw.com/en/mh17-victims-relatives-dignitaries-mourn-on-third-anniversary-of-planes-downing/a-39718945
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/07/17/three-years-on-families-of-malaysia-airlines-mh17-victims-still-seeking-justice.html
http://www.mercedsunstar.com/news/nation-world/article161705188.html
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-07/17/c_136450965.htm
Other news:
http://nltimes.nl/2017/07/17/mh17-survivors-call-russia-stop-playing-games-investigation
A round-up of some coverage elsewhere:
http://nltimes.nl/2017/07/17/mh17-monument-unveiled-memorial-3-year-anniversary
http://nltimes.nl/2017/07/17/mh17-memorial-moving-important-finding-perpetrators-says-survivor
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/07/three-years-on-a-memorial-to-the-mh17-victims-is-opened-near-amsterdam/
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-plane-crash/three-years-later-families-remember-those-lost-downed-flight-mh17-n783656
https://thewest.com.au/news/world/mh17-monument-in-netherlands-opened-on-third-anniversary-of-plane-crash-ng-b88538801z
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/3-years-on-families-commemorate-loved-ones-lost-on-mh17/2017/07/17/149c56a2-6ad5-11e7-abbc-a53480672286_story.html?utm_term=.2f20e52284e0
http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/3-years-on-families-commemorate-loved-ones-lost-on-mh17/wcm/68d3ea09-7070-4bef-8dd9-4fe69ed9f349
http://www.dw.com/en/mh17-victims-relatives-dignitaries-mourn-on-third-anniversary-of-planes-downing/a-39718945
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/07/17/three-years-on-families-of-malaysia-airlines-mh17-victims-still-seeking-justice.html
http://www.mercedsunstar.com/news/nation-world/article161705188.html
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-07/17/c_136450965.htm
Other news:
http://nltimes.nl/2017/07/17/mh17-survivors-call-russia-stop-playing-games-investigation
[quote author= article Palinurus]"Not finding out what happened is unacceptable", the relatives wrote to Russia. "Clarity is needed to give family members the chance to process. Stop playing games. Be a nation as proud and worthy as your people. We will wait. For all innocent lives taken in this brutal manner. For humanity."[/quote]
And so the relatives have become usefull mascots to the people who murdered their familymembers to push their anti Russia propagenda ever on-wards.
I can't imagine their death relatives could have transitioned in peace knowing all of that.
The whole situation is beyond sickening.
And so the relatives have become usefull mascots to the people who murdered their familymembers to push their anti Russia propagenda ever on-wards.
I can't imagine their death relatives could have transitioned in peace knowing all of that.
The whole situation is beyond sickening.
angelburst29
The Living Force
MH17 tragedy: 3 years on, questions remain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMjb1EPjNrc (RT - 3:07 min.)
EXCLUSIVE: Kiev 'Turned Blind Eye to Lives of 298 People Aboard MH17'
https://sputniknews.com/world/201707231055804418-mh-17-plane-crash-investigation-ukraine/
On July 17, 2014, Malaysian Airlines' Boeing 777 crashed in eastern Ukraine while flying to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam. All 298 passengers and crew aboard the aircraft died in the incident.
The Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT) tasked with probing the crash announced in September that the MH17 airliner was allegedly downed by a Buk missile system, which was brought from Russia and after the crash returned there.
However, Russia's Almaz-Antey concern rejected the findings of the probe, saying that three simulations showed that the missile was launched from the Zaroshchenskoye area, which was controlled by Ukraine's army at the time of the downing.
Asked about why he had decided to file a lawsuit to the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) without waiting for the results of the JIT investigation and a court decision due to be announced in the Netherlands, German air traffic law expert Elmar Giemulla said in an inclusive interview with Sputnik that his move was not instigated by the attribution of guilt to a particular country depending on who owned the Buk missile system and who operated it.
"I am convinced that Ukraine failed to properly fulfill its obligations to ensure the security of its airspace," he told Sputnik.
Giemulla recalled that "at the time, Ukrainian authorities were not masters of their country's eastern areas where hostilities were taking place."
"The authorities knew that the Donbass militia possessed the weapons which were much more powerful than just man-portable air defense systems. Moreover, they knew that just a few days before this catastrophe, a Ukrainian military transport aircraft was shot down over this territory at a high altitude. However, instead of completely closing the airspace in this area, Ukraine closed it only up to the height at which civil aircraft can fly," he pointed out.
"It turns out that Ukrainian authorities simply turned a blind eye to the danger that threatened the lives of 298 people and did not prevent it, although they were able to protect these people," Giemulla added.
He said that currently he is dealing with defendants from three German families, including "a mother who lost her adult daughter, two adult children who lost their father and a young man who lost his a mother" during the MH17 plane crash.
Like me, they all believe that Ukraine is to blame for the [MH17] catastrophe. Kiev could and should have prevented this tragedy," Giemulla said.
He also remained downbeat about the fact that a total of five countries, including Ukraine, are taking part the international investigation. "This is a serious mistake. Ukraine itself is responsible for this catastrophe. The danger is that Kiev has the opportunity to influence the course of the investigation," Giemulla warned.
When asked what he thinks about the JIT's preliminary findings of JIT, he described them as "very premature and fragmentary", saying that key issues pertaining to the MH17 tragedy are yet to be clarified.
According to him, "no politician is interested in the truth about what had really happened being made public." "No matter who is guilty, peace in Europe may be under threat [if we know the truth]. Therefore, most likely no one will be declared guilty," he said.
Touching upon his lawsuit to the ECHR, Giemulla expressed hope that the court will thoroughly study the document given that the ECHR did not immediately reject the lawsuit because of its inadmissibility.
Meanwhile, aviation security experts have accused Kiev of deliberately failing to close Ukrainian airspace for civil aviation flights over the zone of military operations, thereby creating a serious risk of a catastrophe. A number of statements in this vein have been made, in particular, by representatives of the international advisory and analytical agency Flight Safety, as well as by foreign experts on aviation security.
Russian political analyst Vladimir Ardayev, for his part, wrote in his opinion piece for RIA Novosti that "focusing on the search for those who downed the plane, the investigation deviated from the study of the main question: how could it happen that the flights of civil aircraft continued over the zone of hostilities?"
Ardayev was echoed by Russian aviation expert and member of the World Flight Safety Fund Sergey Melnichenko, who said that back then, Kiev, in fact, partially closed the sky over eastern Ukraine's Donbass region.
"The question is how it was done and whether the measures taken by Kiev were sufficient to fully ensure the security of the airspace over Ukrainian territory," Melnichenko said.
Melnichenko cited both political and financial reasons for Ukraine's foot-dragging on the closure of its airspace. According to him, closing the sky over part of Ukrainian territory would mean Kiev's recognition of the fact that it was unable to control the situation on its own territory.
Financial reasons pertain to the fact that the use of Ukrainian airspace by foreign air carriers contributes millions of dollars to the country's state coffers, he added.
On July 7, the US Department of State said that the White House welcomed a decision by the Joint Investigation Team to grant the Netherlands the opportunity to hold trials for the case of the Malaysian Boeing MH17 crash in Ukraine in 2014.
Earlier, Amsterdam said that the trial in the case of the MH17 crash would be held in the Netherlands.
***
""Caution - Graphic Photos - Videos"" in links contained at this magbuzz site
The site features a listing of articles on MH17.... or sites to video or photos. A few articles and photos are from other Ukraine events.
At the bottom of the page - on the right hand side - click "2" and follow through to page 5.
Bilder mh17 bodies graphic
_https://www.magbuzz.de/mh17-bodies-graphic.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMjb1EPjNrc (RT - 3:07 min.)
EXCLUSIVE: Kiev 'Turned Blind Eye to Lives of 298 People Aboard MH17'
https://sputniknews.com/world/201707231055804418-mh-17-plane-crash-investigation-ukraine/
On July 17, 2014, Malaysian Airlines' Boeing 777 crashed in eastern Ukraine while flying to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam. All 298 passengers and crew aboard the aircraft died in the incident.
The Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT) tasked with probing the crash announced in September that the MH17 airliner was allegedly downed by a Buk missile system, which was brought from Russia and after the crash returned there.
However, Russia's Almaz-Antey concern rejected the findings of the probe, saying that three simulations showed that the missile was launched from the Zaroshchenskoye area, which was controlled by Ukraine's army at the time of the downing.
Asked about why he had decided to file a lawsuit to the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) without waiting for the results of the JIT investigation and a court decision due to be announced in the Netherlands, German air traffic law expert Elmar Giemulla said in an inclusive interview with Sputnik that his move was not instigated by the attribution of guilt to a particular country depending on who owned the Buk missile system and who operated it.
"I am convinced that Ukraine failed to properly fulfill its obligations to ensure the security of its airspace," he told Sputnik.
Giemulla recalled that "at the time, Ukrainian authorities were not masters of their country's eastern areas where hostilities were taking place."
"The authorities knew that the Donbass militia possessed the weapons which were much more powerful than just man-portable air defense systems. Moreover, they knew that just a few days before this catastrophe, a Ukrainian military transport aircraft was shot down over this territory at a high altitude. However, instead of completely closing the airspace in this area, Ukraine closed it only up to the height at which civil aircraft can fly," he pointed out.
"It turns out that Ukrainian authorities simply turned a blind eye to the danger that threatened the lives of 298 people and did not prevent it, although they were able to protect these people," Giemulla added.
He said that currently he is dealing with defendants from three German families, including "a mother who lost her adult daughter, two adult children who lost their father and a young man who lost his a mother" during the MH17 plane crash.
Like me, they all believe that Ukraine is to blame for the [MH17] catastrophe. Kiev could and should have prevented this tragedy," Giemulla said.
He also remained downbeat about the fact that a total of five countries, including Ukraine, are taking part the international investigation. "This is a serious mistake. Ukraine itself is responsible for this catastrophe. The danger is that Kiev has the opportunity to influence the course of the investigation," Giemulla warned.
When asked what he thinks about the JIT's preliminary findings of JIT, he described them as "very premature and fragmentary", saying that key issues pertaining to the MH17 tragedy are yet to be clarified.
According to him, "no politician is interested in the truth about what had really happened being made public." "No matter who is guilty, peace in Europe may be under threat [if we know the truth]. Therefore, most likely no one will be declared guilty," he said.
Touching upon his lawsuit to the ECHR, Giemulla expressed hope that the court will thoroughly study the document given that the ECHR did not immediately reject the lawsuit because of its inadmissibility.
Meanwhile, aviation security experts have accused Kiev of deliberately failing to close Ukrainian airspace for civil aviation flights over the zone of military operations, thereby creating a serious risk of a catastrophe. A number of statements in this vein have been made, in particular, by representatives of the international advisory and analytical agency Flight Safety, as well as by foreign experts on aviation security.
Russian political analyst Vladimir Ardayev, for his part, wrote in his opinion piece for RIA Novosti that "focusing on the search for those who downed the plane, the investigation deviated from the study of the main question: how could it happen that the flights of civil aircraft continued over the zone of hostilities?"
Ardayev was echoed by Russian aviation expert and member of the World Flight Safety Fund Sergey Melnichenko, who said that back then, Kiev, in fact, partially closed the sky over eastern Ukraine's Donbass region.
"The question is how it was done and whether the measures taken by Kiev were sufficient to fully ensure the security of the airspace over Ukrainian territory," Melnichenko said.
Melnichenko cited both political and financial reasons for Ukraine's foot-dragging on the closure of its airspace. According to him, closing the sky over part of Ukrainian territory would mean Kiev's recognition of the fact that it was unable to control the situation on its own territory.
Financial reasons pertain to the fact that the use of Ukrainian airspace by foreign air carriers contributes millions of dollars to the country's state coffers, he added.
On July 7, the US Department of State said that the White House welcomed a decision by the Joint Investigation Team to grant the Netherlands the opportunity to hold trials for the case of the Malaysian Boeing MH17 crash in Ukraine in 2014.
Earlier, Amsterdam said that the trial in the case of the MH17 crash would be held in the Netherlands.
***
""Caution - Graphic Photos - Videos"" in links contained at this magbuzz site
The site features a listing of articles on MH17.... or sites to video or photos. A few articles and photos are from other Ukraine events.
At the bottom of the page - on the right hand side - click "2" and follow through to page 5.
Bilder mh17 bodies graphic
_https://www.magbuzz.de/mh17-bodies-graphic.html
Palinurus
The Living Force
Thank you, angelburst29. 
Elmar Giemulla was already mentioned before in Reply #660, Reply #691, Reply #719 and in Reply #791.
He's also mentioned in two SOTT articles:
https://www.sott.net/article/324581-Failed-to-protect-life-European-court-green-lights-MH17-relatives-lawsuit-against-Ukraine (August 7, 2016)
https://www.sott.net/article/329624-MH17-victims-lawyer-Ukraine-fully-responsible-for-security-of-its-own-airspace (September 29, 2016)
Elmar Giemulla was already mentioned before in Reply #660, Reply #691, Reply #719 and in Reply #791.
He's also mentioned in two SOTT articles:
https://www.sott.net/article/324581-Failed-to-protect-life-European-court-green-lights-MH17-relatives-lawsuit-against-Ukraine (August 7, 2016)
https://www.sott.net/article/329624-MH17-victims-lawyer-Ukraine-fully-responsible-for-security-of-its-own-airspace (September 29, 2016)
Please forgive me this has already been shared. I'm not familiar by memory with the whole topic. But I think for achieving purposes the following video's have something to add:
In the video below a man from the Ukraine traveled all way to the Netherlands to share his eye-witness report. During that event, the witness reported saying that he had also seen that there were Ukrainian aircraft in the air at the time of the MH17 crash; As there are so many who saw this.
The man says he is systematically ignored as a witness. The arrogant and rude answer of the smearing fellow in the middle of the table in response says that he can report it to the disinformation department of Putin. In other words, witnesses who have seen and heard what happened are not heard and their testimonies are brushed away as Russian propaganda.
MH17 witness declaration VU Amsterdam 11 May 2017
Video collection of other witnesses on the ground who were present at the time of the MH17 crash. (See subtitle option for translation)
In the video below a man from the Ukraine traveled all way to the Netherlands to share his eye-witness report. During that event, the witness reported saying that he had also seen that there were Ukrainian aircraft in the air at the time of the MH17 crash; As there are so many who saw this.
The man says he is systematically ignored as a witness. The arrogant and rude answer of the smearing fellow in the middle of the table in response says that he can report it to the disinformation department of Putin. In other words, witnesses who have seen and heard what happened are not heard and their testimonies are brushed away as Russian propaganda.
MH17 witness declaration VU Amsterdam 11 May 2017
Video collection of other witnesses on the ground who were present at the time of the MH17 crash. (See subtitle option for translation)
Palinurus
The Living Force
With the exception of the BBC-RU video (which was discussed for instance on page 54/55 of this thread) all other videos are new to me if memory serves, so thanks bjorn for collecting and sharing them. 
The info they contain however is not new at all I think, but it nicely confirms other (written) reports discussed previously throughout this topic. Therefore they certainly are not superfluous.
From the ensuing discussion in Dutch I gathered that this man had reacted on the JIT video call for additional witnesses to come forward and his complaint concerns mainly the fact that he wasn't granted witness protection and/or asylum in the Netherlands as the JIT had promised to provide in its video call. The female moderator then assures him he will be further heard and talked to more extensively after the conclusion of the meeting in order to help him with his problems. Whether this actually happened or not cannot be ascertained from this clip obviously.
The info they contain however is not new at all I think, but it nicely confirms other (written) reports discussed previously throughout this topic. Therefore they certainly are not superfluous.
From the ensuing discussion in Dutch I gathered that this man had reacted on the JIT video call for additional witnesses to come forward and his complaint concerns mainly the fact that he wasn't granted witness protection and/or asylum in the Netherlands as the JIT had promised to provide in its video call. The female moderator then assures him he will be further heard and talked to more extensively after the conclusion of the meeting in order to help him with his problems. Whether this actually happened or not cannot be ascertained from this clip obviously.
[quote author= Palinurus]The female moderator then assures him he will be further heard and talked to more extensively after the conclusion of the meeting in order to help him with his problems. Whether this actually happened or not cannot be ascertained from this clip obviously.[/quote]
Well, the second man who answered kept it ''professionall''. The man who first answered had a slightly different way of helping the Ukrainian man out. ;)
Well, the second man who answered kept it ''professionall''. The man who first answered had a slightly different way of helping the Ukrainian man out. ;)
angelburst29
The Living Force
A report of an American freelance journalist who has worked for several US news outlets and also was one of the first journalists on the scene of the Malaysian Airlines flight downed in Ukraine has been killed in South Sudan.
American Journalist killed in South Sudan
http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13960605001321
Christopher Allen, 26, was killed along with 18 others during fighting between government troops and rebels in Yei River state. Both sides claimed that fighting was initiated by the other side, and neither side took credit for killing Allen, who was wearing a jacket marked "PRESS", Hill reported.
Allen was a freelance journalist who has worked for several US news outlets. He had been embedded with rebels in Sudan for a week before he was killed.
According to Philly.com, Allen was also one of the first journalists on the scene of the Malaysian Airlines flight downed in Ukraine by Russia-linked rebels in 2014.
“On the ground, about 16 (bodies) have been found around the defensive position of the SPLA including this white man,” Santo Domic Chol, a military spokesman, told Reuters. Rebels in the area told the news service that Allen was there to "tell our story."
“We are sad for his family. He came here to tell our story," one rebel told Reuters.
A friend of Allen's family described the young reporter as someone with a passion for telling the stories of those afflicted by war.
“He had a passion for telling the stories of people touched by war,” Pat Hughes said. “He went to South Sudan for the same reason all good journalists go to trouble spots: to get the story and to bring that story to the world’s attention.”
South Sudan, which declared independence from Sudan in 2011, descended into civil war in 2013 among ethnic lines. More than 300,000 are believed to have died in the fighting.
Inconvenient Facts: JIT Likely to Ignore New Russian MH17 Evidence
https://sputniknews.com/world/201708271056830976-jit-ignores-mh17-facts/
Russian authorities have provided new radar data related to the MH17 crash to the Joint Investigation Team that was assembled to determine the cause of this tragedy.
Moscow has already supplied Amsterdam with additional information related to the MH17 crash, but the Dutch investigators claimed they were unable to decode it.
Russian political analyst and journalist Ruslan Ostashko told Sputnik Radio that the West simply won't accept the new evidence supplied by Russia.
The West would contend with only one kind of statement from Russia: the one that would confirm that we supplied the Buk missile launcher that the militia downed the Boeing with. All other facts, documents and evidence simply won't be accepted. Because objective facts and objective reality are Russian inventions that the West doesn't care about," Ostashko warned.
Ostashko added that for some time now the West has been operating according to one simple principle: if the facts don't fit into your theory, then too bad for the facts.
Furthermore, an experiment conducted by Almaz-Antey confirmed that Donbass militia would've been unable to down the Malaysia Airlines Boeing with Buk missile; and if there actually were any documents that could've implicated Russia, they would've been published by now, Ostashko remarked.
"Russia's desire to prove its case is a good and necessary move, but it would be difficult to get our point across to the West," he surmised.
American Journalist killed in South Sudan
http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13960605001321
Christopher Allen, 26, was killed along with 18 others during fighting between government troops and rebels in Yei River state. Both sides claimed that fighting was initiated by the other side, and neither side took credit for killing Allen, who was wearing a jacket marked "PRESS", Hill reported.
Allen was a freelance journalist who has worked for several US news outlets. He had been embedded with rebels in Sudan for a week before he was killed.
According to Philly.com, Allen was also one of the first journalists on the scene of the Malaysian Airlines flight downed in Ukraine by Russia-linked rebels in 2014.
“On the ground, about 16 (bodies) have been found around the defensive position of the SPLA including this white man,” Santo Domic Chol, a military spokesman, told Reuters. Rebels in the area told the news service that Allen was there to "tell our story."
“We are sad for his family. He came here to tell our story," one rebel told Reuters.
A friend of Allen's family described the young reporter as someone with a passion for telling the stories of those afflicted by war.
“He had a passion for telling the stories of people touched by war,” Pat Hughes said. “He went to South Sudan for the same reason all good journalists go to trouble spots: to get the story and to bring that story to the world’s attention.”
South Sudan, which declared independence from Sudan in 2011, descended into civil war in 2013 among ethnic lines. More than 300,000 are believed to have died in the fighting.
Inconvenient Facts: JIT Likely to Ignore New Russian MH17 Evidence
https://sputniknews.com/world/201708271056830976-jit-ignores-mh17-facts/
Russian authorities have provided new radar data related to the MH17 crash to the Joint Investigation Team that was assembled to determine the cause of this tragedy.
Moscow has already supplied Amsterdam with additional information related to the MH17 crash, but the Dutch investigators claimed they were unable to decode it.
Russian political analyst and journalist Ruslan Ostashko told Sputnik Radio that the West simply won't accept the new evidence supplied by Russia.
The West would contend with only one kind of statement from Russia: the one that would confirm that we supplied the Buk missile launcher that the militia downed the Boeing with. All other facts, documents and evidence simply won't be accepted. Because objective facts and objective reality are Russian inventions that the West doesn't care about," Ostashko warned.
Ostashko added that for some time now the West has been operating according to one simple principle: if the facts don't fit into your theory, then too bad for the facts.
Furthermore, an experiment conducted by Almaz-Antey confirmed that Donbass militia would've been unable to down the Malaysia Airlines Boeing with Buk missile; and if there actually were any documents that could've implicated Russia, they would've been published by now, Ostashko remarked.
"Russia's desire to prove its case is a good and necessary move, but it would be difficult to get our point across to the West," he surmised.
Palinurus
The Living Force
For archiving purposes. September 1 2017 marks the day when the association agreement between Ukraine and the European Union officially comes into force (RT-article):
https://www.sott.net/article/360797-Ukraines-EU-association-deal-bittersweet-with-no-real-hope-for-integration
https://www.sott.net/article/360797-Ukraines-EU-association-deal-bittersweet-with-no-real-hope-for-integration
