AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?
- Thread starter Laura
- Start date
Laura said:
Thank you Laura! I'm taking Bromelain and Quercetin right after meals. I was wondering if it would be better to take it before. And I also have a bottle of enzymes that has Papain and Beataine HCL, I'll start with that one now. I take my probiotics every night and I' thinking about adding water kefir because I don't tolerate sauerkraut very well yet. Everywhere I read, they say that the best way to improve gut flora is by adding fermented foods to the diet, but some people really need to go slowly because it can over-stimulate the immune system which isn't good for people with autoimmune disease.
Persej said:
Doxy might be enough for C. pneumonia. There is the low dose protocol and then the standard protocol. In case of skin conditions, a few months of standard dose can be tried.
My experience with doxy has been overall positive. It could be its anti-inflammatory effects or bactericidal actions, but the two times I took it, odd pains here and there have disappeared.
Well, it seems reasonable for you to try it if you think you exhausted your venues. As long as you replace gut flora along the way, it should be okay.
Yas said:
Very important to have amylase and lipase along with betaine in your digestive enzyme combo (and the bromelain). The water kefir might be good.
Don't know what the quercetin is doing there but prolly best to take pure bromelain. Q can stress the kidneys.
Gaby said:
Thank you Gaby.
I was reading these research articles and I find them quite interesting. In the first one they tested a couple of natural compounds, but separately:
And in the second they tested it together with doxy:
And here is the full article: http://www.ijbs.com/v12p1093.htm
In short, several combinations are very good against the spirochete forms, but not so good agains the rounded forms and bioflms.
But then I found this: http://www.healthnutnews.com/study-shows-stevia-kills-lyme-disease-pathogen-better-than-antibiotics/
Here is the full article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4681354/
Where they also say this about types of Stevia that they used:
But I don't understand what does that 'randomly' mean? Which one is Stevia A?
Now, I don't have the Borrelia that causes the Lyme disease, but C. Pneumonia does behave in the similar way, so perhaps I could try some of these natural things which are good against Borrelia?
Here are the examples of the most efficient ones from the first two studies:
_https://www.amazon.com/Lauricidin-227-gram-8oz-jar/dp/B004I8SMOQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1428482961&sr=1-1&keywords=lauricidin
_https://www.amazon.com/Powder-City-Baicalin-30-Grams/dp/B01LWZ7GFW/ref=sr_1_5_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1481245337&sr=8-5&keywords=baicalein
_https://www.amazon.com/Powder-City-Rosemary-Extract-Rosmarinic/dp/B01MTKK3VR/ref=sr_1_6_s_it?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1481249519&sr=1-6&keywords=Rosmarinic%2BAcid&th=1
_http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-luteolin-complex-100-mg-30-veg-caps
We already have the topic about the monolaurin: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,35716.0.html
Perhaps it would be the best to start with Stevia. But I would like to know which one is the best?
Persej said:
I can't read the articles right now, but I have experience with stevia. It has been my main sweetener for quite some time and I have tried several brands and formats. I'm not sure if it really made any difference for me. Nevertheless, it might be worth a try. Adding biofilm disruptors is always a good idea. Perhaps you don't notice an anti-bacterial activity for iodine because you need more help to destroy biofilms?
Adaryn
The Living Force
Persej said:
In this discussion on Dr Horowitz's FB page (_https://m.facebook.com/drrichardhorowitz/posts/926372540784878), one of the comment says that the study states that "one particular Stevia extract (either Nutramedix, Now or sweet leaf) was the most effective, and powdered Stevia (Truvia) had no effect on the bacteria. They didn't name which brand had the most antimicrobial effectiveness". But the answers to that comment say that the brand supposed to be the most effective acc. to that study was Nutramedix.
This company sells stevia individually or as part of a "Cowden protocol" package: _https://www.nutramedix.com/products/cowden-support-program
About the Cowden protocol for Lyme/co-infections (Chlamydia P. is a common co-infection of Lyme): _http://www.tiredoflyme.com/the-cowden-protocol-for-lyme-disease.html
Apparently, Betulin also helps fighting CP: Inhibitory effect of the natural product betulin and its derivatives against the intracellular bacterium Chlamydia pneumoniae: _http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006295210004855
You can find betulin in these plants: _http://goodbyelyme.com/free_articles/coinfections/chlamydia (I think that link was already given somewhere on the forum) Chaga mushroom (from Russia) seems to be promising.
Gaby said:
Well, C. Pneumonia doesn't form biofilms, but that doesn't mean that I don't have biofilms with some other bad bacteria. But in the article they say that they discovered that stevia is good against all forms of Borrelia, not just biofilms, but so far they only did experiments in vitro.
Adaryn said:
Thank you Adaryn. Yes, it does seem that they used a Nutramedix one. But there are not much testimonies so far. Maybe I will try to find some local one first.
I'm taking the Chaga for the last 7 days and I don't see any difference.
Laura said:
Thanks again! I didn't know that quercetin can stress the kidneys. I ordered a bottle of pure bromelain in my last supplement order and it should arrive soon. Before using this bomelain-quercetin mix, I took pure bromelain and I really noticed a difference.
The enzymes do have amylase and lipase. It's the Super Enzymes combo from NOW, so it's got many different things, including Ox bile extract, cellulase, some bromelain and pepsin. Since this supplement already brings bromelain, I was thinking of having pure bromelain just in case because it's such a powerful antiinflammatory, pain reliever and digestive aid, and just take the NOW combo every day. I'll review the info about bromelain in this thread and other places to refresh my memory about dosages.
I'v read another research study that tested several components against Boreliae. You can read it here: http://tai.sagepub.com/content/early/2016/07/01/2049936116655502.full.pdf+html
And basically they confirmed that there are several natural things that work against Borrelia, but none of them can completely destroy it.
So, so far, the most powerful thing is this stevia product from Nutramedix. However, Nutramedix only recently started to use stevia in their Cowden protocol so there are still not much testimonies, or in vivo studies. And as you can see from this study, none of the other plants that they used so far is as good as Stevia. Not even when they are combined: http://www.nutramedix.ec/Nutramedix-Priyanka.pdf
However, they do have a stronger effect when they are combined, so that makes me wonder if the iodine and stevia could possibly have a more powerful effect if they were used in a combined protocol. Or combined with something else. Silver perhaps?
Speaking of iodine, what is interesting is that iodine showed a powerful antibiotic properties with a very small quantity, much smaller than the other substances. But, for some reason, iodine cannot kill the rounded forms in 90–99%.
Another substance that showed a powerful effect was Hydroxytyrosol. That is something that is extracted from Olive Leaf. I don't know why they haven't tested the Oleuropein, which is also extracted from Olive Leaf and more famous. Maybe because Hydroxytyrosol is more powerful? But it also cannot kill Borrelia completely.
And basically they confirmed that there are several natural things that work against Borrelia, but none of them can completely destroy it.
So, so far, the most powerful thing is this stevia product from Nutramedix. However, Nutramedix only recently started to use stevia in their Cowden protocol so there are still not much testimonies, or in vivo studies. And as you can see from this study, none of the other plants that they used so far is as good as Stevia. Not even when they are combined: http://www.nutramedix.ec/Nutramedix-Priyanka.pdf
However, they do have a stronger effect when they are combined, so that makes me wonder if the iodine and stevia could possibly have a more powerful effect if they were used in a combined protocol. Or combined with something else. Silver perhaps?
Speaking of iodine, what is interesting is that iodine showed a powerful antibiotic properties with a very small quantity, much smaller than the other substances. But, for some reason, iodine cannot kill the rounded forms in 90–99%.
Another substance that showed a powerful effect was Hydroxytyrosol. That is something that is extracted from Olive Leaf. I don't know why they haven't tested the Oleuropein, which is also extracted from Olive Leaf and more famous. Maybe because Hydroxytyrosol is more powerful? But it also cannot kill Borrelia completely.
I ordered a couple of things that showed promising results in those studies, and then I remembered that I already have one thing at my possession. And those are bitter apricot kernels. I already tried them before the iodine protocol and had no effect, but I wanted to see how would I react now, when my body is iodine saturated. Now, I don't know if it was just a coincidence that in the same time I got a flu, but I had a very strong reaction yesterday.
First day I took 3 kernels, and yesterday 5. And some time in the night, my heart started beating very fast, which happened before, but I haven't had such problem for the last couple of months. And then I felt general weakness in my body like I'm having a fever. This morning I measured 38C, and now I'm on 37.2C. I don't have running nose or a throat problems.
So I wonder if that was some Herxheimer effect or just a coincidence. After I recover I will try it again, but more slowly.
This is what I found about amygdalin in the Lyme Guide by Dr. Rath Research Institute:
You can find all the research papers that I mentioned in the previous posts on this page: http://www.drrathresearch.org/research/projects/93-research/471-borreliosis-lyme-disease
And supposedly they already tested these natural antibiotics in vivo on animals and they say that they had a 90% reduction of bacteria!
This is a combination that they used:
There are many other possible combinations: http://www.drrathresearch.org/images/attachments/Infectious%20Diseases/Webinar-Beyond-Antibiotics.pdf
I hope that in the future they will also test stevia.
First day I took 3 kernels, and yesterday 5. And some time in the night, my heart started beating very fast, which happened before, but I haven't had such problem for the last couple of months. And then I felt general weakness in my body like I'm having a fever. This morning I measured 38C, and now I'm on 37.2C. I don't have running nose or a throat problems.
So I wonder if that was some Herxheimer effect or just a coincidence. After I recover I will try it again, but more slowly.
This is what I found about amygdalin in the Lyme Guide by Dr. Rath Research Institute:
You can find all the research papers that I mentioned in the previous posts on this page: http://www.drrathresearch.org/research/projects/93-research/471-borreliosis-lyme-disease
And supposedly they already tested these natural antibiotics in vivo on animals and they say that they had a 90% reduction of bacteria!
This is a combination that they used:
There are many other possible combinations: http://www.drrathresearch.org/images/attachments/Infectious%20Diseases/Webinar-Beyond-Antibiotics.pdf
I hope that in the future they will also test stevia.
