AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?

Yas

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Laura said:
The main thing to do now is to get your digestive tract restored from top to bottom because that is the foundation of your immune system. You may want to look into a fecal transplant.
Yes, that's what I think too. I'll have a look into that, but doing a little research, it seems that it isn't available in my country. In the meantime, I'll do all the other options to restore the digestive tract.
 

Laura

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Yas said:
Laura said:
The main thing to do now is to get your digestive tract restored from top to bottom because that is the foundation of your immune system. You may want to look into a fecal transplant.
Yes, that's what I think too. I'll have a look into that, but doing a little research, it seems that it isn't available in my country. In the meantime, I'll do all the other options to restore the digestive tract.
Two things that help: taking a good digestive enzyme combo before each meal along with bromelain. I take the probiotics at night before bed on an empty stomach.
 

Yas

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Laura said:
Yas said:
Laura said:
The main thing to do now is to get your digestive tract restored from top to bottom because that is the foundation of your immune system. You may want to look into a fecal transplant.
Yes, that's what I think too. I'll have a look into that, but doing a little research, it seems that it isn't available in my country. In the meantime, I'll do all the other options to restore the digestive tract.
Two things that help: taking a good digestive enzyme combo before each meal along with bromelain. I take the probiotics at night before bed on an empty stomach.
Thank you Laura! I'm taking Bromelain and Quercetin right after meals. I was wondering if it would be better to take it before. And I also have a bottle of enzymes that has Papain and Beataine HCL, I'll start with that one now. I take my probiotics every night and I' thinking about adding water kefir because I don't tolerate sauerkraut very well yet. Everywhere I read, they say that the best way to improve gut flora is by adding fermented foods to the diet, but some people really need to go slowly because it can over-stimulate the immune system which isn't good for people with autoimmune disease.
 

Gaby

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Persej said:
Gaby said:
Do you have a specific bacteria or infection you aim to target?
Aside from Chlamydia Pneumonia that I think is causing me the heart problems, I have the one that is causing me the bleeding acne on my head. Or maybe it's the same type that is causing me both problems, I don't know.
Doxy might be enough for C. pneumonia. There is the low dose protocol and then the standard protocol. In case of skin conditions, a few months of standard dose can be tried.

My experience with doxy has been overall positive. It could be its anti-inflammatory effects or bactericidal actions, but the two times I took it, odd pains here and there have disappeared.

Well, it seems reasonable for you to try it if you think you exhausted your venues. As long as you replace gut flora along the way, it should be okay.
 

Laura

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Yas said:
Thank you Laura! I'm taking Bromelain and Quercetin right after meals. I was wondering if it would be better to take it before. And I also have a bottle of enzymes that has Papain and Beataine HCL, I'll start with that one now. I take my probiotics every night and I' thinking about adding water kefir because I don't tolerate sauerkraut very well yet. Everywhere I read, they say that the best way to improve gut flora is by adding fermented foods to the diet, but some people really need to go slowly because it can over-stimulate the immune system which isn't good for people with autoimmune disease.
Very important to have amylase and lipase along with betaine in your digestive enzyme combo (and the bromelain). The water kefir might be good.

Don't know what the quercetin is doing there but prolly best to take pure bromelain. Q can stress the kidneys.
 

Persej

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Gaby said:
Doxy might be enough for C. pneumonia. There is the low dose protocol and then the standard protocol. In case of skin conditions, a few months of standard dose can be tried.

My experience with doxy has been overall positive. It could be its anti-inflammatory effects or bactericidal actions, but the two times I took it, odd pains here and there have disappeared.

Well, it seems reasonable for you to try it if you think you exhausted your venues. As long as you replace gut flora along the way, it should be okay.
Thank you Gaby.

I was reading these research articles and I find them quite interesting. In the first one they tested a couple of natural compounds, but separately:

We tested the efficacy of 15 phytochemicals and micronutrients against three morphological forms of Borrelia burgdoferi And Borrelia garinii : spirochetes, latent rounded forms and biofilm. The results showed that the most potent substances against the spirochete and rounded forms of B. burgdorferi and B. garinii were cis-2-decenoic acid, baicalein, monolaurin and kelp (iodine); whereas, only baicalein and monolaurin revealed significant activity against the biofilm.

Conclusions: The most effective antimicrobial compounds against all morphological forms of the two tested Borrelia sp. were baicalein and monolaurin. This might indicate that the presence of fatty acid and phenyl groups is important for comprehensive antibacterial activity.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jam.12970/pdf
And in the second they tested it together with doxy:

Anna Goc, Senior Researcher at the Dr. Rath Research Institute and colleagues presented evaluated more than 50 natural compounds against active and latent forms of Borrelia burgdorferi and Borrelia garinii, predominant causative agents of Lyme disease in the US and in Europe. They concluded that several of the compounds held anti-borreliae effects.

“The most promising aspect of these findings is that the identified compounds are effective against not only active form of these bacteria, called spirochetes, but also the latent forms such as rounded forms and biofilm,” Dr Goc said in a prepared statement about the study.

The study revealed that polyphenols such as baicalein, luteolin, and rosmarinic acid, fatty acids namely monolaurin and 10-HAD {this is actually a royal jelly}, and micronutrients like iodine and vitamins D3 and C were particularly effective.

In an effort to determine whether these compounds can serve their purpose, the team investigated their cooperation with doxycycline, the most frequently prescribed antibiotic for Lyme patients. This study showed that dual combination of doxycycline with these compounds, allowed for 50% reduction of antibiotic concentration killing 90% of spirochetes. Also, rounded forms that are not affected by doxycycline alone were reduced by 50% in the presence of baicalein, luteolin, fatty acids, and iodine still at the 50% decreased concentration of doxycycline. Similarly, 50-60% eradication of biofilm was achieved, while doxycycline alone even at double concentration was effective only in 20-30%. In concurrent studies, the same compounds were tested for their mutual cooperation.

These results revealed that the combinations of baicalein with luteolin and monolaurin with 10-HAD synergized in killing spirochetes. Moreover, baicalein and luteolin when combined with rosmarinic acid or iodine produced additive effects against spirochetes and rounded forms. An additive anti-biofilm effect was noticed when baicalein was combined with luteolin and monolaurin with 10-HAD.

http://www.infectiousdiseaseadvisor.com/emerging-diseases/natural-compounds-effective-against-borrelia-sp--pathogens-causing-lyme-disease/article/504458/
And here is the full article: http://www.ijbs.com/v12p1093.htm

In short, several combinations are very good against the spirochete forms, but not so good agains the rounded forms and bioflms.

But then I found this: http://www.healthnutnews.com/study-shows-stevia-kills-lyme-disease-pathogen-better-than-antibiotics/

Here is the full article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4681354/

Interestingly, there was no regrowth with the sample treated with Stevia A as there were only dead cells (100% elimination) after a 7-day subculture, and only a 10% increase in viable cells was observed after a subculture for 14 days.

(...)

In addition, biofilms treated with Stevia A also showed significant reduction on collagen by ~34% compared to the control. In order to assess the effectiveness of doxycycline and the three-antibiotic combination to Stevia A, the results in Fig. 4 showed that there was a significant reduction in the total Borrelia biomass grown on plastic and collagen surfaces by Stevia A compared to doxycycline and the three-antibiotic combination (p value ≤ 0.01).
Where they also say this about types of Stevia that they used:

Different Stevia extracts manufactured by Nutramedix®, Now®, Sweet leaf®, and Truvia® were purchased from health food stores in the USA and were labeled randomly as Stevia A, B, C, and D.

...

Our results showed that Stevia A, Stevia B, and Stevia C alcohol extracted agents had significant effects on the viability of Borrelia cells, but Stevia D, powdered form, and Stevioside did not show any significant effect on both the log phase and the stationary phase cells. Figure 1 shows a representative experiment demonstrating that the alcohol extracted based Stevia agents (A, B, C) were the most effective against the Borrelia persisters, while the powder form of Stevia leaf extract (D) and Stevioside had no effect on those resistant cells. Furthermore, Stevia A showed the most promising effect in all experiments, and therefore, Stevia A was used in the subsequent experiments on the different morphological forms of B. burgdorferi.
But I don't understand what does that 'randomly' mean? Which one is Stevia A?


Now, I don't have the Borrelia that causes the Lyme disease, but C. Pneumonia does behave in the similar way, so perhaps I could try some of these natural things which are good against Borrelia?

Here are the examples of the most efficient ones from the first two studies:

_https://www.amazon.com/Lauricidin-227-gram-8oz-jar/dp/B004I8SMOQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1428482961&sr=1-1&keywords=lauricidin

_https://www.amazon.com/Powder-City-Baicalin-30-Grams/dp/B01LWZ7GFW/ref=sr_1_5_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1481245337&sr=8-5&keywords=baicalein

_https://www.amazon.com/Powder-City-Rosemary-Extract-Rosmarinic/dp/B01MTKK3VR/ref=sr_1_6_s_it?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1481249519&sr=1-6&keywords=Rosmarinic%2BAcid&th=1

_http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-luteolin-complex-100-mg-30-veg-caps

We already have the topic about the monolaurin: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,35716.0.html

Perhaps it would be the best to start with Stevia. But I would like to know which one is the best?
 

Gaby

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FOTCM Member
Persej said:
Now, I don't have the Borrelia that causes the Lyme disease, but C. Pneumonia does behave in the similar way, so perhaps I could try some of these natural things which are good against Borrelia?
I can't read the articles right now, but I have experience with stevia. It has been my main sweetener for quite some time and I have tried several brands and formats. I'm not sure if it really made any difference for me. Nevertheless, it might be worth a try. Adding biofilm disruptors is always a good idea. Perhaps you don't notice an anti-bacterial activity for iodine because you need more help to destroy biofilms?
 

Adaryn

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Persej said:
Perhaps it would be the best to start with Stevia. But I would like to know which one is the best?
In this discussion on Dr Horowitz's FB page (_https://m.facebook.com/drrichardhorowitz/posts/926372540784878), one of the comment says that the study states that "one particular Stevia extract (either Nutramedix, Now or sweet leaf) was the most effective, and powdered Stevia (Truvia) had no effect on the bacteria. They didn't name which brand had the most antimicrobial effectiveness". But the answers to that comment say that the brand supposed to be the most effective acc. to that study was Nutramedix.

This company sells stevia individually or as part of a "Cowden protocol" package: _https://www.nutramedix.com/products/cowden-support-program

About the Cowden protocol for Lyme/co-infections (Chlamydia P. is a common co-infection of Lyme): _http://www.tiredoflyme.com/the-cowden-protocol-for-lyme-disease.html

Apparently, Betulin also helps fighting CP: Inhibitory effect of the natural product betulin and its derivatives against the intracellular bacterium Chlamydia pneumoniae: _http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006295210004855

You can find betulin in these plants: _http://goodbyelyme.com/free_articles/coinfections/chlamydia (I think that link was already given somewhere on the forum) Chaga mushroom (from Russia) seems to be promising.
 
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Persej

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Gaby said:
I can't read the articles right now, but I have experience with stevia. It has been my main sweetener for quite some time and I have tried several brands and formats. I'm not sure if it really made any difference for me. Nevertheless, it might be worth a try. Adding biofilm disruptors is always a good idea. Perhaps you don't notice an anti-bacterial activity for iodine because you need more help to destroy biofilms?
Well, C. Pneumonia doesn't form biofilms, but that doesn't mean that I don't have biofilms with some other bad bacteria. But in the article they say that they discovered that stevia is good against all forms of Borrelia, not just biofilms, but so far they only did experiments in vitro.

Adaryn said:
Apparently, Betulin also helps fighting CP: Inhibitory effect of the natural product betulin and its derivatives against the intracellular bacterium Chlamydia pneumoniae: _http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006295210004855

You can find betulin in these plants: _http://goodbyelyme.com/free_articles/coinfections/chlamydia (I think that link was already given somewhere on the forum) Chaga mushroom (from Russia) seems to be promising.
Thank you Adaryn. Yes, it does seem that they used a Nutramedix one. But there are not much testimonies so far. Maybe I will try to find some local one first.

I'm taking the Chaga for the last 7 days and I don't see any difference.
 

Yas

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Laura said:
Yas said:
Thank you Laura! I'm taking Bromelain and Quercetin right after meals. I was wondering if it would be better to take it before. And I also have a bottle of enzymes that has Papain and Beataine HCL, I'll start with that one now. I take my probiotics every night and I' thinking about adding water kefir because I don't tolerate sauerkraut very well yet. Everywhere I read, they say that the best way to improve gut flora is by adding fermented foods to the diet, but some people really need to go slowly because it can over-stimulate the immune system which isn't good for people with autoimmune disease.
Very important to have amylase and lipase along with betaine in your digestive enzyme combo (and the bromelain). The water kefir might be good.

Don't know what the quercetin is doing there but prolly best to take pure bromelain. Q can stress the kidneys.
Thanks again! I didn't know that quercetin can stress the kidneys. I ordered a bottle of pure bromelain in my last supplement order and it should arrive soon. Before using this bomelain-quercetin mix, I took pure bromelain and I really noticed a difference.

The enzymes do have amylase and lipase. It's the Super Enzymes combo from NOW, so it's got many different things, including Ox bile extract, cellulase, some bromelain and pepsin. Since this supplement already brings bromelain, I was thinking of having pure bromelain just in case because it's such a powerful antiinflammatory, pain reliever and digestive aid, and just take the NOW combo every day. I'll review the info about bromelain in this thread and other places to refresh my memory about dosages.
 

Persej

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I'v read another research study that tested several components against Boreliae. You can read it here: http://tai.sagepub.com/content/early/2016/07/01/2049936116655502.full.pdf+html

And basically they confirmed that there are several natural things that work against Borrelia, but none of them can completely destroy it.

So, so far, the most powerful thing is this stevia product from Nutramedix. However, Nutramedix only recently started to use stevia in their Cowden protocol so there are still not much testimonies, or in vivo studies. And as you can see from this study, none of the other plants that they used so far is as good as Stevia. Not even when they are combined: http://www.nutramedix.ec/Nutramedix-Priyanka.pdf

However, they do have a stronger effect when they are combined, so that makes me wonder if the iodine and stevia could possibly have a more powerful effect if they were used in a combined protocol. Or combined with something else. Silver perhaps?

Speaking of iodine, what is interesting is that iodine showed a powerful antibiotic properties with a very small quantity, much smaller than the other substances. But, for some reason, iodine cannot kill the rounded forms in 90–99%.

Another substance that showed a powerful effect was Hydroxytyrosol. That is something that is extracted from Olive Leaf. I don't know why they haven't tested the Oleuropein, which is also extracted from Olive Leaf and more famous. Maybe because Hydroxytyrosol is more powerful? But it also cannot kill Borrelia completely.
 

Persej

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Persej said:
I don't know why they haven't tested the Oleuropein, which is also extracted from Olive Leaf and more famous. Maybe because Hydroxytyrosol is more powerful?
Oh, I see now that they have tested Oleuropein. And yes, it is less effective than Hydroxytyrosol.

Grape seed is also good.
 

Persej

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I ordered a couple of things that showed promising results in those studies, and then I remembered that I already have one thing at my possession. And those are bitter apricot kernels. I already tried them before the iodine protocol and had no effect, but I wanted to see how would I react now, when my body is iodine saturated. Now, I don't know if it was just a coincidence that in the same time I got a flu, but I had a very strong reaction yesterday.

First day I took 3 kernels, and yesterday 5. And some time in the night, my heart started beating very fast, which happened before, but I haven't had such problem for the last couple of months. And then I felt general weakness in my body like I'm having a fever. This morning I measured 38C, and now I'm on 37.2C. I don't have running nose or a throat problems.

So I wonder if that was some Herxheimer effect or just a coincidence. After I recover I will try it again, but more slowly.

This is what I found about amygdalin in the Lyme Guide by Dr. Rath Research Institute:

The apricot’s kernels contain amygdalin which is also is present in plum and peach pits, bitter almonds, wild cherry bark, and apple seeds. Amygdalin is toxic in high amounts. It is effective in killing the spirochetes in the non-division stage, since they have no defense against its cyanate residue (-CN). All human cells can convert it into harmless thiocyanate (-SCN) by an enzyme called rhodanase (a mitochondrial enzyme). SCN in turn is a substrate for lactoperoxidase that converts thiocyanate into hypothiocyanite (-OSCN) that is considered as a safe product: it is not mutagenic and has antibacterial activity. Hypothiocyanite has been researched extensively for its capabilities as an alternative to antibiotics as it is harmless to human body cells while being cytotoxic to bacteria. The antibacterial activity of lactoperoxidase is important in white blood cells to fight pathogens. Amygdalin showed anti-borrelieae effects by killing mature cysts as well as the “persisters” in cerebrospinal fluid, the brain, and the disseminated remnants not killed by antibiotics or non-synthetic (natural) compounds in the organism.

http://www.drrathresearch.org/images/attachments/Infectious%20Diseases/Lyme-guide_DRRI.pdf
You can find all the research papers that I mentioned in the previous posts on this page: http://www.drrathresearch.org/research/projects/93-research/471-borreliosis-lyme-disease

And supposedly they already tested these natural antibiotics in vivo on animals and they say that they had a 90% reduction of bacteria!
This is a combination that they used:

Vitamin D3
Vitamin B-complex
Vitamin C
Baicalein (Scutellaria baicalensis)
10-HAD (Royal jelly)
Iodine/Kelp
Monolaurin (Coconut oil)
Luteolin (Sophora japonica)
Rosmarinic acid (Rosmarinus officinalis)

http://www.drrathresearch.org/images/attachments/Infectious%20Diseases/Webinar-English_LD_in_vivo.pdf
There are many other possible combinations: http://www.drrathresearch.org/images/attachments/Infectious%20Diseases/Webinar-Beyond-Antibiotics.pdf

I hope that in the future they will also test stevia.
 

Gaby

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Persej said:
I ordered a couple of things that showed promising results in those studies, and then I remembered that I already have one thing at my possession. And those are bitter apricot kernels.
Where did you got them?
 

Persej

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Gaby said:
Persej said:
I ordered a couple of things that showed promising results in those studies, and then I remembered that I already have one thing at my possession. And those are bitter apricot kernels.
Where did you got them?
Iherb.
 
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