Islamophobia in a 7th grade classroom (related to the NYC/NJ bomb incidents)

As many on the forum probably know by now, I'm a substitute teacher in Elizabeth, NJ. Today I was covering for a 7th grade math teacher and I had to rebuke a kid who made a joke toward a Muslim girl wearing a hijab that she "had bombs". I got very angry and sternly told him I don't want to hear racist and prejudice stuff like that in my class, and if I hear it again he's going straight to the principal - he tried to explain it off as something from a video game or something, and I said, "I don't care where it's from, I don't want to hear it." Earlier, one of the girls told me that the Muslim girl knew the supposed bomber (who was a resident of Elizabeth) or someone who was related to him - I can't recall exactly what she said - and I thought "boy, I hope she's not getting judged or picked on." And lo and behold, this incident happened shortly after.

After the period ended and the kids were leaving, the Muslim girl came up to me and said, "Thanks for sticking up for me." I told her I don't tolerate that kind of crap, and that if anyone else says anything like that to her again to find me and let me know. The fact that she came up to me made me realize that there's a very real pressure on her, and that this was definitely not the first time something like this was said to her.

It's really frightening to see xenophobia at work, leaking into young minds and bubbling up as seemingly lighthearted jokes among kids. I don't think the boy really understood the gravity of a joke like that, and how serious it really is. What's scary is I foresaw these kinds of things escalating as soon as I heard about the bomb incident at the Elizabeth Train Station (a place I frequent every single week) and that the man accused of it and the NYC incident was a resident here.

Just thought I should share this story with the forum. It's been on my mind all day today since it happened.

Thanks for sharing PTE. Islamophobia is a very serious and worrisome thing. It reminds me of the treatment of Jews in Germany and the Native Americans by Westerners. It's turned into something where almost anything bad is immediately blamed on Muslims. I see a snowball effect, and it only getting worse. It must be pretty shocking, though, to see it first hand and among kids, and how they can use it to torment and dehumanize.

I live in a rural setting, and primarily white, so needless to say, I hear some pretty ignorant things regarding Islam, Jihadists, etc. About a year ago, there was a double homicide not too far from here. Speaking to folks about it, I heard more than 2 people actually say they wondered if it was ISIS!!! I've also spoken with people that think ISIS will be invading the country by and large someday soon. Yikes. The amount of ignorance is startling. I think the media plays on this, and somebody out there knows that the general public only pick up sound bites of information without seeking the real story (or truth for that matter), and that is how they draw their conclusion - that is how their reality is conceived. It's easier to hate on someone for a laugh than it is to try and be understanding. It's easier to just lump one group of people into a category than it is to see people individually.

7th grade kis are still maleable, i did have a conversation with a cousin (8th grade) as his school closed because of a bomb threat, i was actaully surprised to hear him say "that's messed up", as we saw a police car randomly parked next to a islam school. He went on with his remarks of how ridiculous they looked parked as if no one noticed them there..
I am glad for him that he sees the separation.

You as a teacher should suggest/encourage tolerance, even if in a small way, most kids listen.

This paranoia is everywhere and it is reinforced with bad parenting, ignorance and media (tv, games, movies etc) influences.

It is indeed annoying.

SOTT just put up an RT article confirming the rise of racism and bigotry among young children in Wales, UK:

https://www.sott.net/article/328964-Teachers-in-Wales-warn-of-growing-tide-of-racism-among-children

Palinurus said:

SOTT just put up an RT article confirming the rise of racism and bigotry among young children in Wales, UK:

https://www.sott.net/article/328964-Teachers-in-Wales-warn-of-growing-tide-of-racism-among-children

Click to expand...

I'd say that's all but inevitable. At the insistence of certain political agendas, increasingly our metropolitan areas in the UK are being inhabited by ghettoised communities who have no interest in the UK, no interest in the values of the west, no interest in the existing culture, or living by our legal framework, following our education curricula or often, even learning the language. Islam is a monoculture. There's no plurality - it's Islam for everything. How can that possibly interact with a western culture that not only entertains plurality of religion but also that religion is just a small aspect of a bigger picture?

It's not desirable to have a nation of individual cultures all living by their own rules, laws and values - in fact I'd say it makes management of society all but impossible. If anyone can think of exactly how these two concepts can mesh, I'd be very interested to hear it, but there is a worrying number of Muslims here in the UK who want Sharia law, and are going all out to get it. You look at what's going on in continental Europe, you'll see a repeating picture. This isn't Islamophobia, this is simply what's happening.

So, is it not inevitable that the indigenous populace, do not want this future for their children and grand-children, and so are going to react with some hostility to this development? Do they not, not only have the right, but also an absolute duty to protect the values and freedoms we have fought long and hard, and sacrificed, in order to acquire for our society's future?

Now, I agree, none of this is the fault of a girl in a school with a Hijab on, however when she is showing herself to be an aspect of one of the most concerning societal developments we have seen in the west in generations, are we really all ready to blithely castigate others for reacting in a less than favourable fashion?

You want to see who's really responsible for what is now an unfolding social catastrophe, along with the right wing rising in popularity across Europe like a sheer cliff-face - look left

Zaphod said:

It's not desirable to have a nation of individual cultures all living by their own rules, laws and values - in fact I'd say it makes management of society all but impossible. If anyone can think of exactly how these two concepts can mesh, I'd be very interested to hear it, but there is a worrying number of Muslims here in the UK who want Sharia law, and are going all out to get it. You look at what's going on in continental Europe, you'll see a repeating picture. This isn't Islamophobia, this is simply what's happening.

Click to expand...

Hi Zaphod,

I'm not sure we should hijack this thread to delve extensively into the subject you brought up, but historically speaking there have been several solutions to the problem you mentioned:
Apartheid, Social apartheid, Corporatism, Pillarisation and the Poldermodel, and probably more.

A few links to possible relevant literature (by no means exhaustive):

‘The Netherlands and the Polder Model’
The Polder Model--from Disease to Miracle?: Dutch Neo-corporatism 1965-2000
The Diversity of Democracy: Corporatism, Social Order and Political Conflict

Happy reading !

Hope this helps a bit. :)

[quote author= Zaphod]You want to see who's really responsible for what is now an unfolding social catastrophe, along with the right wing rising in popularity across Europe like a sheer cliff-face - look left[/quote]

Extreme Right is rising because the majority of the populace consists of complete freaking idiots.

Let try some relevant word associations :

Hybrid wars, proxy armies, false flags, Gladio A/B, controlled media.

Ever heard about those? Because many people haven't. And even if you are familiar with the meaning of those words. It doesn't mean that you completely realize or are aware how such schemes dominate our society.

The PTB are after the 'clash of civilizations', meaning they use all of the above mentioned tactics to engineer the 'clash of civilizations' So how much of your fear is truly? Did their propaganda, false flags etc not affect you?

And if you really fear Muslims that much, no worries, Muslims won't be a problem for much longer. The C's mentioned holocaust 2.0. And by now, can't you already see the Signs? Obviously not, since it seems you rather rally behind the Establishment when it comes to the 'Muslim Problem'.

Oh, and let's not forget that it is Western tax money that helps to fund and arm terrorist groups such as ISIS. Radical Islam is a tool for Imperialism and Police State. That's why it is a problem.

And it is Muslim blood that has been spilled the most, trying to stop those proxy armies. Are you going to condemn them to?


[quote author= Zaphod]Now, I agree, none of this is the fault of a girl in a school with a Hijab on, however when she is showing herself to be an aspect of one of the most concerning societal developments we have seen in the west in generations, are we really all ready to blithely castigate others for reacting in a less than favourable fashion?
[/quote]

None of this is her fault. But I don't see you condemning this behavior. In fact, you react with this :

[quote author= Zaphod]So, is it not inevitable that the indigenous populace, do not want this future for their children and grand-children, and so are going to react with some hostility to this development?[/quote]

To me it appears you are downplaying or even justifying what happened to this little Girl. Telling us that Islamphobia is justified.


[quote author= Zaphod]Islam is a monoculture. There's no plurality - it's Islam for everything.[/quote]

Who says? You think the entire middle East is like Saudi Arabia? Are you that ignorant to believe that only radical Islam exists? Syria along other middle Eastern countries are successful multicultural states. That is, before the West decided to wreck havoc upon them.


Anyhow, another topic already dealt with this subject.

It's worth your attention I think, because you seem to believe that all Muslims are radicals.

See: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,40573.0.html

Zaphod said:

It's not desirable to have a nation of individual cultures all living by their own rules, laws and values - in fact I'd say it makes management of society all but impossible. If anyone can think of exactly how these two concepts can mesh, I'd be very interested to hear it, but there is a worrying number of Muslims here in the UK who want Sharia law, and are going all out to get it. You look at what's going on in continental Europe, you'll see a repeating picture. This isn't Islamophobia, this is simply what's happening.

Click to expand...

Tolerance on both parts, that is how,
there are many multicultural places on this earth that to some degree are much better in terms of tolerance than the UK or the US , mainly third world countries, from what i have seen.

If to them everything is islam why would you want to change that? If you were to move to any muslim country does that mean you have to grow a beard and pray to Ala and go to muslim school and going against you beliefs and traditions for the sake of not upsating the host?

They have to adapt and you (UK) has to adapt through tolerance.

And yes this is another issue not pertinent for this thread.

Felipe4 said:

Zaphod said:

It's not desirable to have a nation of individual cultures all living by their own rules, laws and values - in fact I'd say it makes management of society all but impossible. If anyone can think of exactly how these two concepts can mesh, I'd be very interested to hear it, but there is a worrying number of Muslims here in the UK who want Sharia law, and are going all out to get it. You look at what's going on in continental Europe, you'll see a repeating picture. This isn't Islamophobia, this is simply what's happening.

Click to expand...

Tolerance on both parts, that is how,
there are many multicultural places on this earth that to some degree are much better in terms of tolerance than the UK or the US , mainly third world countries, from what i have seen.

If to them everything is islam why would you want to change that? If you were to move to any muslim country does that mean you have to grow a beard and pray to Ala and go to muslim school and going against you beliefs and traditions for the sake of not upsating the host?

They have to adapt and you (UK) has to adapt through tolerance.

And yes this is another issue not pertinent for this thread.

Click to expand...

To my knowledge, the west is beyond comparison when it comes to multiculturalism. I don't think there is anywhere else that attempts to squeeze as many diverse cultures in to the same 'floorspace'. nor to my knowledge is there anywhere else even remotely as tolerant and willing to entertain a multiplicity of beliefs, cultures and values

I would want to change the fact that Muslims are about Islam and nothing else because it does not mix in a society which entertains and upholds the notion of a pluraility of beliefs and values. It's like, the one thing it won't survive is bringing in cultures who simply can't abide plurality. It's a step we can't afford, and it's sheer arrogance on our part to think it will all be ok.

Moving to an Islamic country, I absolutely would be expected to convert to Islam, or at least abide by the cultures and laws of Islam - or face punitive penalties. There is a historic precedent of jizyah, as a for instance and merely an example.

However, if this is off-topic, then I'll end it there

bjorn said:

[quote author= Zaphod]You want to see who's really responsible for what is now an unfolding social catastrophe, along with the right wing rising in popularity across Europe like a sheer cliff-face - look left

Click to expand...

Extreme Right is rising because the majority of the populace consists of complete freaking idiots.

[/quote]

Nice start ..

[quote author= Zaphod]Nice start .. [/quote]

Sure, how else to put it when you are convinced that all Muslims are radicals.

You think I should sugarcoat such ignorance? Might not get across the way it should if I do.

Anyhow, since you don't see the need to reply on the other things I said because you rather dodge it while pretending that you have some ''moral highground''

Next time when you want to convince others that moderate Islam doesn't exist. Tell that to families in Syria who lost their sons fighting ISIS. And even daughters fighting in the Kurdish factions who are burned alive when captured. All Muslims btw, and all fighting to keep secular and multicultural Syria alive.

Your worldview is based on stereotypes that hold no basis in reality. Which makes you a perfect useful idiot for the PTB, just like those millions of other Westerners who cling to the extreme-right.

bjorn said:

[quote author= Zaphod]Nice start ..

Click to expand...

Sure, how else to put it when you are convinced that all Muslims are radicals.

You think I should sugarcoat such ignorance? Might not get across the way it should if I do.

Anyhow, since you don't see the need to reply on the other things I said because you rather dodge it while pretending that you have some ''moral highground''

Next time when you want to convince others that moderate Islam doesn't exist. Tell that to families in Syria who lost their sons fighting ISIS. And even daughters fighting in the Kurdish factions who are burned alive when captured. All Muslims btw, and all fighting to keep secular and multicultural Syria alive.

Your worldview is based on stereotypes that hold no basis in reality. Which makes you a perfect useful idiot for the PTB, just like those millions of other Westerners who cling to the extreme-right.
[/quote]

Ok, since you insist. Moderate Islam does not matter, and will not affect the outcome.. let me elucidate.. or t least, let this woman, elucidate

_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAoXgZLRee0

Those stereotypes hold lots of basis in reality.. I suggest you try visiting somewhere in the UK like Luton, which has Shariah councils, Shariah patrols - you're woken up at some ungodly hour of the morning by a call to prayer, you look out of your window and you see mosques, Burkas and no white faces - a big change in 30 odd years and not one you will ever feel a part of ..

As the numbers rise, the hostility from the Muslim community is rising.. I mean this in the politest way, but you really don't know what you're talking about.

[quote author= Zaphod]Moderate Islam does not matter[/quote]

Moderate Islam is what keeps secular and multicultural Syria alive. This alone should make you think twice before repeating your 'extreme right' rhetoric again.


[quote author= Zaphod]Ok, since you insist[/quote]

I don't insist, and honestly I don't care that much either what you have to say. Since you ignore the things that I said previously and simply start mentioning other things.

That means you only intent to reply. And don't intent to listen what others have to say.



Anyhow, let's try this again:

I said:

[quote author= bjorn]Let try some relevant word associations :

Hybrid wars, proxy armies, false flags, Gladio A/B, controlled media.

Ever heard about those? Because many people haven't. And even if you are familiar with the meaning of those words. It doesn't mean that you completely realize or are aware how such schemes dominate our society.

The PTB are after the 'clash of civilizations', meaning they use all of the above mentioned tactics to engineer the 'clash of civilizations'[/quote]

So how for example do they engineer the clash of civilizations.

Here is one:

https://www.sott.net/article/326155-MI5-blocked-the-arrest-of-ISIS-supporting-preacher-Choudary-many-years-but-no-more

By letting hatespeech flourish. The PTB have no intention of stopping radicalizing, they intent to nourish it.

Like the SOTT comment with comes with that article stated:

The long, long delay in arresting Choudary gives rise to speculation of him being a UK tool within the framework of state-approved/sponsored/ignored terror attacks to further a covert agenda promoting and capitalizing on extremism.

This happens systematically, Western intelligence agencies have always been in bed with radicals.

Because in this particular case:

[quote author= bjorn]Radical Islam is a tool for Imperialism and Police State.[/quote]

If you want to fix radical Islam. Start with your own government. Instead of justyfing Islamphobia. Because the second is exactly what the PTB are after and you are feeding that.


[quote author= Zaphod]Those stereotypes hold lots of basis in reality..[/quote]

Not when they dominate you. People who are stuck in black and white thinking are biased, unable to be objective and selectively pick and ignore what suits their worldview.

This clearly applies to you. Only being able to pick out the rotten apples, not being able look at all the widespread information that is available on the subject.


Again, this topic could get you started see things more objectively :

[quote author= bjorn]It's worth your attention I think, because you seem to believe that all Muslims are radicals.

See: HTTP://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,40573.0.html[/quote]


[quote author= Zaphod]a big change in 30 odd years and not one you will ever feel a part of ..[/quote]

Really, you know me that well uh? Here you assume in a subtle that everyone who has come in contact with Muslims must think the worst of them, otherwise they haven't met them.

But if you want to read my experience, again this topic could get you started: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,40573.0.html

I can't help that according to you this place you mentioned has become such a hellhole.

But that doesn't apply to all countries, or cities.

[quote author= bjorn, from the topic mentioned]I lived in the most diverse city on the planet. (Rotterdam) Over half of the population are immigrants and the majority of those are Muslims. Even the major is a Muslim. According to you and the estimations/scaremongering of Wilders/ Le Pen/ Pegida and and the like the city should have already been conquered. Now comes the shocker. They didn't started to molest, force their ways, chanced the landscape or started a war. And they have been here for decades.

They just most surprisely, wanted to provide for their families.

The city has been ranked several times in the top 10 places to visit. Including the New York Times. It has been in a construction boom from quite some time now. Progress is dominant and the skyline is changing each year. If anything is getting build. It are skyscrapers, not minarets or mosques.

Amsterdam is comparable by immigration standards. And has been ranked as the world fifth safest city of 2015.

Sorry that my personal experience doesn't add up to the Islamo fascist invaders some try to warn me of. But here it is.[/quote]


Oh and about me calling people who cling to the extreme right usefull idiots, that's me putting in the most gentle way possible, since they really are that stupid. Take this for example, few months ago Geert Wilders of the political party PVV (Extreme Right) in the Netherlands presented his campaign plan.

It was 1 page in total, 1 page !! He presented his future plans for our country for years to come on one freaking page. You know what was on it? Ban Islam, Ban the Koran, Ban all mosque. And Ban everything Islamic in general. He doesn't has real solutions, and this by design, he just wants to create further polarization. And according to the Polls, if elections were to take place right now. He will come out as a winner.

Thanks to the support of millions of usefull idiots.

bjorn said:

[quote author= Zaphod]Moderate Islam does not matter

Click to expand...

Moderate Islam is what keeps secular and multicultural Syria alive. This alone should make you think twice before repeating your 'extreme right' rhetoric again.


[quote author= Zaphod]Ok, since you insist[/quote]

I don't insist, and honestly I don't care that much either what you have to say. Since you ignore the things that I said previously and simply start mentioning other things.

That means you only intent to reply. And don't intent to listen what others have to say.



Anyhow, let's try this again:

I said:

[quote author= bjorn]Let try some relevant word associations :

Hybrid wars, proxy armies, false flags, Gladio A/B, controlled media.

Ever heard about those? Because many people haven't. And even if you are familiar with the meaning of those words. It doesn't mean that you completely realize or are aware how such schemes dominate our society.

The PTB are after the 'clash of civilizations', meaning they use all of the above mentioned tactics to engineer the 'clash of civilizations'[/quote]

So how for example do they engineer the clash of civilizations.

Here is one:

https://www.sott.net/article/326155-MI5-blocked-the-arrest-of-ISIS-supporting-preacher-Choudary-many-years-but-no-more

By letting hatespeech flourish. The PTB have no intention of stopping radicalizing, they intent to nourish it.

Like the SOTT comment with comes with that article stated:

The long, long delay in arresting Choudary gives rise to speculation of him being a UK tool within the framework of state-approved/sponsored/ignored terror attacks to further a covert agenda promoting and capitalizing on extremism.

This happens systematically, Western intelligence agencies have always been in bed with radicals.

Because in this particular case:

[quote author= bjorn]Radical Islam is a tool for Imperialism and Police State.[/quote]

If you want to fix radical Islam. Start with your own government. Instead of justyfing Islamphobia. Because the second is exactly what the PTB are after and you are feeding that.


[quote author= Zaphod]Those stereotypes hold lots of basis in reality..[/quote]

Not when they dominate you. People who are stuck in black and white thinking are biased, unable to be objective and selectively pick and ignore what suits their worldview.

This clearly applies to you. Only being able to pick out the rotten apples, not being able look at all the widespread information that is available on the subject.


Again, this topic could get you started see things more objectively :

[quote author= bjorn]It's worth your attention I think, because you seem to believe that all Muslims are radicals.

See: HTTP://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,40573.0.html[/quote]


[quote author= Zaphod]a big change in 30 odd years and not one you will ever feel a part of ..[/quote]

Really, you know me that well uh? Here you assume in a subtle that everyone who has come in contact with Muslims must think the worst of them, otherwise they haven't met them.

But if you want to read my experience, again this topic could get you started: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,40573.0.html

I can't help that according to you this place you mentioned has become such a hellhole.

But that doesn't apply to all countries, or cities.

[quote author= bjorn, from the topic mentioned]I lived in the most diverse city on the planet. (Rotterdam) Over half of the population are immigrants and the majority of those are Muslims. Even the major is a Muslim. According to you and the estimations/scaremongering of Wilders/ Le Pen/ Pegida and and the like the city should have already been conquered. Now comes the shocker. They didn't started to molest, force their ways, chanced the landscape or started a war. And they have been here for decades.

They just most surprisely, wanted to provide for their families.

The city has been ranked several times in the top 10 places to visit. Including the New York Times. It has been in a construction boom from quite some time now. Progress is dominant and the skyline is changing each year. If anything is getting build. It are skyscrapers, not minarets or mosques.

Amsterdam is comparable by immigration standards. And has been ranked as the world fifth safest city of 2015.

Sorry that my personal experience doesn't add up to the Islamo fascist invaders some try to warn me of. But here it is.[/quote]


Oh and about me calling people who cling to the extreme right usefull idiots, that's me putting in the most gentle way possible, since they really are that stupid. Take this for example, few months ago Geert Wilders of the political party PVV (Extreme Right) in the Netherlands presented his campaign plan.

It was 1 page in total, 1 page !! He presented his future plans for our country for years to come on one freaking page. You know what was on it? Ban Islam, Ban the Koran, Ban all mosque. And Ban everything Islamic in general. He doesn't has real solutions, and this by design, he just wants to create further polarization. And according to the Polls, if elections were to take place right now. He will come out as a winner.

Thanks to the support of millions of usefull idiots.
[/quote]

I'm out.. I never expected anything like this

Zaphod said:

To my knowledge, the west is beyond comparison when it comes to multiculturalism. I don't think there is anywhere else that attempts to squeeze as many diverse cultures in to the same 'floorspace'. nor to my knowledge is there anywhere else even remotely as tolerant and willing to entertain a multiplicity of beliefs, cultures and values

I would want to change the fact that Muslims are about Islam and nothing else because it does not mix in a society which entertains and upholds the notion of a pluraility of beliefs and values. It's like, the one thing it won't survive is bringing in cultures who simply can't abide plurality. It's a step we can't afford, and it's sheer arrogance on our part to think it will all be ok.

Moving to an Islamic country, I absolutely would be expected to convert to Islam, or at least abide by the cultures and laws of Islam - or face punitive penalties. There is a historic precedent of jizyah, as a for instance and merely an example.

Click to expand...

If by "Islamic country" you mean something like Saudi Arabia, then yes. But if you take Syria, for example, it arguably is MORE tolerant and willing to entertain a multiplicity of beliefs, cultures and values than the U.S. See this video, for example: