Jordan Peterson: Gender Pronouns and Free Speech War

Ruth said:
Balance said:
However those in power - PTB, need muscle. They are controlling minority, masterminds, but they still need muscle. Nazi Germany had highly pathological individuals on all important and less important nodes in government-military-paramilitary aparatus, but that's not enough.

Actually, I disagree. I think all you need is the minority (masterminds), also known as psychopaths and they need to be in power. Those that you describe as 'muscle' are nothing but followers, sheep, cattle, mindless morons, or authoritarian followers, if you like. They do NOT stand up to psychopaths and consequently benefit from their actions, at that time. You take the historical perspective of Nazi Germany, where as Scottie seemed (to me) to be taking a contemporary Western perspective.

I think 'muscle' was meant in terms of the masterminds needing a "body" to carry out the work, even though/if unconsciously

Kris
 
Ruth said:
Actually, I disagree. I think all you need is the minority (masterminds), also known as psychopaths and they need to be in power. Those that you describe as 'muscle' are nothing but followers, sheep, cattle, mindless morons, or authoritarian followers, if you like. They do NOT stand up to psychopaths and consequently benefit from their actions, at that time. You take the historical perspective of Nazi Germany, where as Scottie seemed (to me) to be taking a contemporary Western perspective.

It's true that you need psychos and similar pathological individuals on power positions. But they need to create desirable environment for their actions to be 'justified'. They cannot just out of blue order to kill millions of people (I now no one here said that, but I'm just giving an example). They needed 9/11 and parole of democracy to justify their operations. Same as Nazis did. Himmler came to Ordungpolizei and gave speech about killing and exterminating public enemy number one: Bolsheviks, and never mentioned Jews. Few days after that speech they killed more than few thousand Jews and few Bolsheviks here and there. (I'm again taking the historical perspective, but parallels are parallels). USA and minions are doing the same thing. War against the 'terrorism' is war against the states they target. Iraq, Libia, Siria, Iran(trying), Palestina etc...

That same cattle/followers/sheeps/mindless morons/authoritarian followers are the ones who either say nothing or pull the trigger.(And those who say nothing, either do not care or just follow).

Anyhow, I forgot one interesting scenario that can also happen. Technology used as muscle while sheeps say nothing or either support actions. RoboCaps, RoboSoliders, Wireless machinery killing for the elite etc.
Who knows...maybe one day. Didn't it started in Israel as prototype (there's a thread I think on the forum)?

Ruth said:
From the historical perspective, women were seen as inconsequential, invisible, victims or sheep. That might have some advantages when a female was trying to work against evil overlords or fight against things as they were. They were simply not seen as a threat and therefore ignored.

Where humanity has gone wrong is in not 'seeing' the psychopaths or pathologically behaving individuals.

I've just finished watching Pierre's post on the interview between a psychologist and former Channel 4 presenter. The psychologist claimed that the 'women's movement' was blaming, projecting and persecuting - all men. From a historical perspective, this should start to ring some bells. Where have we heard all this before and who was it aimed at?

I indeed agree with bolded part. That's probably the number one reason why everything is as it is (excluding hyperdimensionality and master of puppets). But again, they NEED majority to be blind (not see, swallow justifications or just be indifferent) so they can maintain status quo OR they need majority to pull the trigger - be the '"body" to carry out the work' as RflctnOfU said. That 'work' depends on target and aim. I just do not know what real target and aim of masterminds is...chaos, money, killing ethical groups...I really do not know.

Ruth said:
Where have we heard all this before and who was it aimed at?

That about women is an interesting observation. But women have power now, they are big players, so why not mix them in game too? Use all the resources and players you have to divide and conquer. Is't it creative to use them know, it never happened to this degree before, right?

Probably another divide and conquer tactic. Straight <-> LGBT, Family <-> Quazi-Gay-Family, Men&Woman <-> Trans&Hybrids, Men <-> Women, Christanity <-> Islam, Us <-> Them, Them <-> US.

Always the same pathological tactic. That's how psychos see the world and that's their way of thinking. They are imposing the same way of thinking on ordinary people and that's why JBP is their big enemy in that domain. As I said JBP is trying to lift that victimhood and accusing mentality among people, teaching people to bear their crosses, to be responsible, to stand up and resist that same predator 'view imposing' strategy of PTB. He is fighting against the Beast as all we here do. We are actually fighting against becoming our shadow, fighting against predator giving us his mind (in Don Juan terms).
 
Scottie said:
Just need to watch 2 minutes and 4 seconds.


Those are exactly the questions I have been asking myself for awhile now.

Of course, the assumption is that only men need the message. But then, WHY do men need it?

And so, the question remains: Why are so few women affected by JP's message? Are they waiting for men to fix everything?

We assume that the "Nazi" thing that may be coming is the left. What if it isn't? What if it's the backlash against the left that will cause a rise from the conservative side (pathologized, of course)? That could very well include a backlash against women.

If we accept the theory that higher-whatever beings that travel through time can futz things up, then quite possibly the reason we didn't "see" the Evil Left earlier is because they weren't actually quite that evil. Then, things were changed. Now, they are the "evil" ones.

And tomorrow, that can turn on a dime - again. Most likely, it will... somehow. Twists and turns and all that.

So, the only thing to do is to stay on top of things, constantly reading reality. And right now, one of those big movements that could very well effectively lead to the 4th Reich is being fought against by people like JP.

And yet...

Laura had predicted something along those line during the Charlestone riot in Facebook post. I personally would not be surprised if something like that occured. The whole black vs white, straight vs lgbt...etc is causing lots of resentments. In polite society, certain things can't be said, but I wonder the number of closet "al-right" there truly are or the number of people who could get entangled by far-right idea given the conditions are right. Also, there's something we need to keep in mind. I thought JP's theory on white privilege was erroneous. I thought it was less about majority (as he argued) and more about dominance. Anyway, his talk about majority made me realize something. White people are indeed the majority in European and North American countries. POC and LGBT actually represent a vert tiny minority. So, actually a turn to the hard right leading to something similar to what the Nazi did wouldn't be so difficult to do.

It would be ironic (and terribly tragic) if the oppression that minorities keep on complaining on truly occured due to a major backlash. Also, I have noticed that those among those who profess their love of free speech and love JP, there are many who have very rigid minds, in my opinion. Many Shapiro type more interested about being right than the truth. They're the type that would praise JP for being rational and in the same sentence claim that all blacks are ignorant and if they're incarcerated/killed more by the police, it's because they are thugs/ can't comply with the law. They don't seem to understand nuance. All sound pretty gloomy...

In regards to your question as to why JP's message seems to resonate more with men. I feel like right now a lot of women are taken with the whole feminism ideology. Besides, a lot of people think in term of black and white. If they don't agree with absolutly everything JP says, then, he isn't worth listening. Fan culture is killing critical thinking.
 
Scottie said:
Just need to watch 2 minutes and 4 seconds.


Those are exactly the questions I have been asking myself for awhile now.

Of course, the assumption is that only men need the message. But then, WHY do men need it?

And so, the question remains: Why are so few women affected by JP's message? Are they waiting for men to fix everything?

We assume that the "Nazi" thing that may be coming is the left. What if it isn't? What if it's the backlash against the left that will cause a rise from the conservative side (pathologized, of course)? That could very well include a backlash against women.

If we accept the theory that higher-whatever beings that travel through time can futz things up, then quite possibly the reason we didn't "see" the Evil Left earlier is because they weren't actually quite that evil. Then, things were changed. Now, they are the "evil" ones.

And tomorrow, that can turn on a dime - again. Most likely, it will... somehow. Twists and turns and all that.

So, the only thing to do is to stay on top of things, constantly reading reality. And right now, one of those big movements that could very well effectively lead to the 4th Reich is being fought against by people like JP.

And yet...

My guess as to why it resonates with men is because tons of them are more or less left out in the education/societal visibility spectrum.There are tons of programs that help women in uni/trade school/corporate. Literally every popular science journal that I've looked through here has had columns written about how there's a glass ceiling/sexism/not enough women in STEM.It's accepted and lauded.Girls are taught that it's very important that they succeed and that society rides on them and they are the future.They're taught that speaking their mind is brave and revolutionary and their opinion matters. What are boys taught? Don't hit girls. I'm serious.

I haven't seen a single column written anywhere talking about an employer hiring exclusively men or looking to get more men into the workforce or looking to improve the education system to better cater to men or looking to create more programs exclusively for men.Not a single one,pretty sure they'd be out of business if they did that.Then JP comes along and says ''hey guys,you're not an afterthought,you're important actually'' and gets a massive response from millions suffering in silence.And this is surprising?

As for attributing the inability to see the insanity on the left to interdimentional forces,for what it's worth seems like a copout. Yeah they exist and they do stuff that we can't begin to imagine,but it's far more likely that you were simply unable to see due to biases. For example,I was paying attention to that insanity around 2013/2014,and plenty of others have been talking about it for far longer, At the time I decided that the consensus of the forum was more important then my observation and even bought into the ''trump is literally hitler guys'',especially since anyone right leaning here was treated with condescension,something I'm guilty of myself. This was a big mistake ofcourse and I've begun to pay attention to my own intuition,but it's difficult to speak about unpopular things in a place that treats you with contempt.
 
Altair said:
I'm not sure whether this video was posted here previously.

Jordan Peterson "can't answer" Holodomor question


Article linked in the description of the video: _https://www.counter-currents.com/2015/07/solzhenitsyn-on-the-jews-and-soviet-russia/

I saw this video a while back.I also have been thinking about it a bit.He's obviously aware of the jewish involvement and his response indicates a reluctance on his part.He defends jews wherenever they're brought up and I think he's also bought into the ''russia is evil'' narrative,yet when confronted with information contrary to what he's been saying he simply refuses to answer.Perhaps he's aware that he would instantly lose friends and no one would work with him.Being labeled an anti-semite is pretty much social suicide in the west.
 
Altair said:
I'm not sure whether this video was posted here previously.

Jordan Peterson "can't answer" Holodomor question


Article linked in the description of the video: _https://www.counter-currents.com/2015/07/solzhenitsyn-on-the-jews-and-soviet-russia/

I don't think JP or anybody needs a nefarious secret agenda to want to tread carefully around a tar ball question like that one. The fact that this clip was seized upon and presented in the way it was should illustrate well enough the concerns any sensible person would have in his position.

I thought he was being really smart and honest about his inadequacy in withdrawing. To have attempted to stumble through an answer without having read the source material the question was based on would have been irresponsible.

Talk about a great way to side-line his efforts: "JP is an anti-semite", or conversely, "JP is hates Palestine!" The Left would have a collective orgasm regardless of what he said or actually thinks. The road through that territory is full of landmines.

I'd be very interested to hear him speak on the question. I bet he would have a lot of useful insights to offer, but to attempt to grapple such a subject on the spot in an ambush affair like that would probably have been one of those critical mistakes he has repeatedly expressed concerns about making.
 
Woodsman said:
I'd be very interested to hear him speak on the question. I bet he would have a lot of useful insights to offer, but to attempt to grapple such a subject on the spot in an ambush affair like that would probably have been one of those critical mistakes he has repeatedly expressed concerns about making.

That's my take on it, too. Although (if I remember correctly) he tweeted some things that could be seen as "pro-Israel", he generally avoids the topic in his talks and for good reason. In the Rubin Report with him and Ben Shapiro, he did say something along the lines of "careful not to fall into identity politics here" with regards to Judaism and Israel, so I think he is aware of some of the contradictions on the conservative spectrum, such as criticizing identity politics, yet accepting it when Israel plays the same game. Or maybe I'm reading too much into it.
 
On the subject of men being JBP's main audience, he shared some new data recently on Louder with Crowder. According to Penguin's (his publisher) analytics, his audience is pretty much split 50/50. There was even one venue (can't remember if it was attendance at his talks...) that is now 55% female. So that pretty much confirmed his hypothesis that the high number of men interested in his work was pretty much an artifact of his audience being primarily on YouTube, which itself is primarily male.
 
Approaching Infinity said:
There was even one venue (can't remember if it was attendance at his talks...) that is now 55% female.

I think it was facebook.
 
Approaching Infinity said:
On the subject of men being JBP's main audience, he shared some new data recently on Louder with Crowder. According to Penguin's (his publisher) analytics, his audience is pretty much split 50/50. There was even one venue (can't remember if it was attendance at his talks...) that is now 55% female. So that pretty much confirmed his hypothesis that the high number of men interested in his work was pretty much an artifact of his audience being primarily on YouTube, which itself is primarily male.

Got YT link or somethin'?
 
Woodsman said:
I thought he was being really smart and honest about his inadequacy in withdrawing. To have attempted to stumble through an answer without having read the source material the question was based on would have been irresponsible.

Talk about a great way to side-line his efforts: "JP is an anti-semite", or conversely, "JP is hates Palestine!" The Left would have a collective orgasm regardless of what he said or actually thinks. The road through that territory is full of landmines.

Yes, the topic is very delicate but IMO all that he should have done is saying "I haven't read the book and that's why I can't answer your question" without showing any dismissive and dramatic emotional reactions.
 
Scottie said:
Approaching Infinity said:
On the subject of men being JBP's main audience, he shared some new data recently on Louder with Crowder. According to Penguin's (his publisher) analytics, his audience is pretty much split 50/50. There was even one venue (can't remember if it was attendance at his talks...) that is now 55% female. So that pretty much confirmed his hypothesis that the high number of men interested in his work was pretty much an artifact of his audience being primarily on YouTube, which itself is primarily male.

Got YT link or somethin'?

Here it is:
 
DianaRose94 said:
It would be ironic (and terribly tragic) if the oppression that minorities keep on complaining on truly occured due to a major backlash.

I think there's a better chance that those "minorities" and those among the "majority" that are using them, will be the ones to mete out the oppression this time around. People have a real problem calling those radical leftist "minority" types out for what they are, and that's a decent enough sign of creeping totalitarianism. If you want to know what form the next round of fascism will take and from where it will emerge, just look at what you are not allowed to say, and in many cases think, and who is enforcing that. Also notice the 'bleeding heart' appeal to humanitarianism that they used to get around so many people.
 
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