Collingwood's Idea of History & Speculum Mentis

endescent said:

I got The Idea of History on Kindle, looking forward to reading it. I really want to do the Work, even as it evolves from Gurdjieff to Collingwood and the others.

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Yes, well I think my idea of the Work has been much more inclusive than just G from the outset. 'Life is Religion' is a good little book to get up to speed on the various elements to growth that are part of the efforts here and associated materials. Some of the stuff from G that didn't make a whole lot of sense, I didn't spend much time on. There was plenty of other stuff that did make sense. I think the analogy of the horse drawn carriage is useful. As well as the idea of the 'magnetic center.' No knowledge is better than false knowledge, but real Knowledge is better than no knowledge. That's what I like about the idea of the 'magnetic center' is that the more real knowledge one collects the easier it seems to avoid false knowledge. And of course applying what you learn is the key to everything. OSIT

genero81 said:

endescent said:

I got The Idea of History on Kindle, looking forward to reading it. I really want to do the Work, even as it evolves from Gurdjieff to Collingwood and the others.

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Yes, well I think my idea of the Work has been much more inclusive than just G from the outset. 'Life is Religion' is a good little book to get up to speed on the various elements to growth that are part of the efforts here and associated materials. Some of the stuff from G that didn't make a whole lot of sense, I didn't spend much time on. There was plenty of other stuff that did make sense. I think the analogy of the horse drawn carriage is useful. As well as the idea of the 'magnetic center.' No knowledge is better than false knowledge, but real Knowledge is better than no knowledge. That's what I like about the idea of the 'magnetic center' is that the more real knowledge one collects the easier it seems to avoid false knowledge. And of course applying what you learn is the key to everything. OSIT

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From what I am understanding ,the creation of a magnetic center is similar to the idea of the mosaic of consciousness, in the sense that it is an structurization of certain understandings of reality, into one's being, from which to operate from.
It is a configuration of the functions of the machine which create a certain perspective of things.

If we are full of illusions, the idea of working/removing these illusions and delusions is to clear the view as those illusions are the result of configurations in our psyche (programs) that channel our energy to support their existence, but what to do after those have been removed or are being worked on, seems to me that it's to simultaneously create another point of reference to see things, and the process of working on programs can give us understandings and self-awareness to create this "I".

Something that comes to mind is I think a lot of times we are reading the material and doing certain thing here that when we come back to our daily environment and patterns of behavior and routine we forget the connection between what we learn and how that is evident in every sphere of life, sort of like a dissociation into our lessons or dissociation into study, and making that connection between the two is sort of like operating with the understandings that we gather from research , application of knowledge integrated in our perception, which becomes light.

Some thoughts

Hello, seems like this thread is the new capital infos of the network, i have only read Laura's post in this thread.

Right now, I'm at the beginning of chapter 5 of IOH. I want to ask :
Are the details the author describes of the views of each particular culture about history in some way capital to remember to understand the whole point of this book?
I noticed lately how difficult and challenging it is for me to Stay awake and focused for grasping the reasoning without being taken away by perfectionistic dissociatives programs. Right now, I'm angsting over considering if I should restart all over again and taking notes.

And I've also been wondering if theses new priority reading take precedence over the old recommended readings guide? So far I've read completely ISOTM, the Wave, Myth of sanity and Strangers to ourselves and Brain Changer and wanted to finish with the big 5 psy book and get into neurosciences.

onemen said:

And I've also been wondering if theses new priority reading take precedence over the old recommended readings guide? So far I've read completely ISOTM, the Wave, Myth of sanity and Strangers to ourselves and Brain Changer and wanted to finish with the big 5 psy book and get into neurosciences.

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I've only read Raine so far, but the impression I get from the discussions here concerning Collingwood and the neuroscience books, it might be better to leave the the Big Five Psy books till after, because the transformative effect that the latest books might have on our thinking should make the assimilation of all other material (e.g. the Big Five) a lot easier and faster, if that makes sense.

(Added: Also, if it's that you're having difficulty understanding Collingwood, maybe that's the point - that it's the effort you are required to put into it that's going to benefit you in the long run.)

onemen said:

Right now, I'm at the beginning of chapter 5 of IOH. I want to ask :

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Correction : I'm at the beginning of part 4.


YES!!! after a reading session of IOH, reading everything else is for sure easier to grasp.

T.C. said:

I've only read Raine so far, but the impression I get from the discussions here concerning Collingwood and the neuroscience books, it might be better to leave the the Big Five Psy books till after, because the transformative effect that the latest books might have on our thinking should make the assimilation of all other material (e.g. the Big Five) a lot easier and faster, if that makes sense.

(Added: Also, if it's that you're having difficulty understanding Collingwood, maybe that's the point - that it's the effort you are required to put into it that's going to benefit you in the long run.)

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Thank you T.C. I wanted a bit of reassurance that I'm not biting off more than I can chew.

To be honest I've begun reading this 3weeks ago and I've been a bit frustrated by it and my slow reading progress. I dissociate a lot during reading into perfectionnistic compulsive behaviour like re-reading to get perfect literal understanding and stopping to replay the argument by memory resulting in reading too much into things and then losing my train of though like blank state. Later on I stopped doing this as the author describes so much different peoples that I couldn't remember anymore what's had been said and so special about each one.

Because I wasn’t sure what to read after finishing IoH (which I haven’t done yet), I went through the whole thread again and listed all the proposed books. Please find the list below - maybe some of the titles need rearraning their order in the list - some of you who have already read most of it might want to give your comment. I have also included links for some hardcopies, if you’d rather get an electronic copy, the link is on the vendor’s page:

Core reading:

1. Collingwood - Idea of History (here)
2. Collingwood - Speculum Mentis (here)
3. Raine - Anatomy of Violence (here)
4. Tamdgidi - Gurdjieff and Hypnosis (here)
5. Glenn & Raine - Psychopathy (here)

Extended List:
6. Samenow - Inside the Criminal Mind (here)
7. Samenow - The Myth of the Out of Character Crime (here)
8. Fallon - The Psychopath Inside (here)
9. Ressler - Whoever Fights Monsters (here)
10. Waite - The Psychopathic God (here)

Other related books:
11. Carr - What is History? (here)
12. Cohn - Cosmos, Chaos & The World to Come (here)
13. Kahn - The Education of Julius Cesar (here)
14. Carcopino - Cicero: The Secrets of His Correspondence (here)
15. Enberg-Pederson - Paul and the Stoics (here)

I might have overseen some titles, or I might have included some that are less important, so feel free to suggest changes to the list.

I think that now, I would put the Samenow books somewhere near the top of the pile.

Laura said:

I think that now, I would put the Samenow books somewhere near the top of the pile.

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Something like this?

Core reading:

1. Collingwood - Idea of History (here)
2. Collingwood - Speculum Mentis (here)
3. Raine - Anatomy of Violence (here)
4. Samenow - Inside the Criminal Mind (here)
5. Samenow - The Myth of the Out of Character Crime (here)


Extended List:
6. Glenn & Raine - Psychopathy (here)
7. Tamdgidi - Gurdjieff and Hypnosis (here)
8. Fallon - The Psychopath Inside (here)
9. Ressler - Whoever Fights Monsters (here)
10. Waite - The Psychopathic God (here)

Other related books:
11. Carr - What is History? (here)
12. Cohn - Cosmos, Chaos & The World to Come (here)
13. Kahn - The Education of Julius Cesar (here)
14. Carcopino - Cicero: The Secrets of His Correspondence (here)
15. Enberg-Pederson - Paul and the Stoics (here)

Quel dommage que la majorité de ses livres ne soient pas traduits en Français...
J'ai acheté tous ceux qui l'étaient...
Merci pour vos listes...

What a shame that the majority of his books are not translated into French ...
I bought everyone who was ...
Thank you for your lists ...

PERLOU said:

Quel dommage que la majorité de ses livres ne soient pas traduits en Français...
J'ai acheté tous ceux qui l'étaient...
Merci pour vos listes...

What a shame that the majority of his books are not translated into French ...
I bought everyone who was ...
Thank you for your lists ...

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Hi PERLOU

I've noticed a few posts from you about the new reading list, Collingwood in particular, where you highlight the problem of there being few French translations.

Have you ever thought about studying English? Would it be something you could fit into your schedule? Are there any teachers near to you or maybe an online course?

T.C. said:

I've noticed a few posts from you about the new reading list, Collingwood in particular, where you highlight the problem of there being few French translations.

Have you ever thought about studying English? Would it be something you could fit into your schedule? Are there any teachers near to you or maybe an online course?

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Good idea. Even an online course to start would be good!

As for book order, y'all just read them as you get them. But remember, the Collingwood books are the real exercise for the brain while the others tell you what is going on in that brain and why it needs exercise!!! So you could even start with Samenow and Raine and Fallon and Ressler first, which should scare you enough to know WHY you need to persist with Collingwood and Tamdgidi, and will also give you insight into why Gurdjieff wasn't entirely "clean".

T.C. said:

PERLOU said:

What a shame that the majority of his books are not translated into French ...
I bought everyone who was ...
Thank you for your lists ...

Click to expand...

Hi PERLOU

I've noticed a few posts from you about the new reading list, Collingwood in particular, where you highlight the problem of there being few French translations.

Have you ever thought about studying English? Would it be something you could fit into your schedule? Are there any teachers near to you or maybe an online course?

Click to expand...

That is a very good idea. Think of all the great works that you are missing by limiting your choice to only French. When you learn a language, reading comprehension often comes first. You might not pronounce the words perfectly, but at least you can understand them with the help of a dictionary. It is also a very good way to exercise your brain.

Most of the psychology books are available in kindle where you can double check unknown words in the dictionary.

It's worth a try. Look at it this way, when you feel a great resistance of doing something that will actually benefit you in the long-term, it is likely the "predator mind" that is protesting.

I read "Idea of History" in my mother language (Spanish) and I actually didn't like the translation. After reading some of the quotes in English in this thread, I realized that it is much more clearer in the original language.

I almost finished IOH, just a 20-30 pages left. I really liked the second part of the book.
I have one strange feeling inside me that although I understand most of the book I can't really clearly and precisely express it with words. It is there, inside me and I know what he means in the book but it is very difficult to me to express it with words.
The feeling is like all that text that I read from the book is still trying to " find its place" in my mind. Very interesting feeling.
Maybe it is because i read it in English and not in my native language.
Or maybe it will all settle down when I will continue with the speculum Mentis and the rest of recommended books.

Konstantin said:

I almost finished IOH, just a 20-30 pages left. I really liked the second part of the book.
I have one strange feeling inside me that although I understand most of the book I can't really clearly and precisely express it with words. It is there, inside me and I know what he means in the book but it is very difficult to me to express it with words.
The feeling is like all that text that I read from the book is still trying to " find its place" in my mind. Very interesting feeling.
Maybe it is because i read it in English and not in my native language.
Or maybe it will all settle down when I will continue with the speculum Mentis and the rest of recommended books.

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I had the same feeling too when finishing IoH; the last part of IoH was put together from Collingwood's unpublished papers after he died so it is a bit unfinished. Yes, the blank spots will be filled in by Speculum Mentis. So, not to worry!!!

Konstantin said:

The feeling is like all that text that I read from the book is still trying to " find its place" in my mind. Very interesting feeling.
Maybe it is because i read it in English and not in my native language.
Or maybe it will all settle down when I will continue with the speculum Mentis and the rest of recommended books.

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I can relate to that feeling. It's like IoH is only one piece of the puzzle. And although we already have other pieces too, the new emerging image may become visible after we will catch up with the rest of the reading. Perhaps only then we will be able to have the true "Aha!" moment, and the information from the book will finally find its place in our mind. :) Mosaic consciousness and all that.

But it does feel like something significant is happening!

Gaby said:

I read "Idea of History" in my mother language (Spanish) and I actually didn't like the translation. After reading some of the quotes in English in this thread, I realized that it is much more clearer in the original language.

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Yes, I also started reading it in Russian, but now find it more approachable in English.