Collingwood's Idea of History & Speculum Mentis

Divide by Zero

The Living Force
BrenXHkm said:
Divide By Zero said:
From archive.org, I'm able to save the encrypted borrowed book as a normal epub (ex:The Psychopathic God by Waite. I don't know if those borrowed books are public domain or not though.
After you mentioned it, I checked and there was that option, it gave me a URLLink.acsm archive which I couldn't open, until I downloaded a program called Adobe Digital Editions. Thanks :)
Yes, but once you are done reading- inside library you right click that book and hit return book- otherwise archive.org will think you are still reading it.

I can unencrypt it and return it without holding it on the site, which allows me to read it on my phone or tablet ebook reader.
But I'm not sure which books are public domain or not.
 

BrendaH

Jedi
Divide By Zero said:
BrenXHkm said:
Divide By Zero said:
From archive.org, I'm able to save the encrypted borrowed book as a normal epub (ex:The Psychopathic God by Waite. I don't know if those borrowed books are public domain or not though.
After you mentioned it, I checked and there was that option, it gave me a URLLink.acsm archive which I couldn't open, until I downloaded a program called Adobe Digital Editions. Thanks :)
Yes, but once you are done reading- inside library you right click that book and hit return book- otherwise archive.org will think you are still reading it.

I can unencrypt it and return it without holding it on the site, which allows me to read it on my phone or tablet ebook reader.
But I'm not sure which books are public domain or not.
Thank you for the information, that's good to know! I downloaded Inside the Criminal Mind and after unencrypting it I returned it and there seems to be no problem, I can read it on my phone perfectly. Are you using any specific reader? I have the one I mentioned above but it's kind of slow, it has a rating of 2,3 out of 5, so you can imagine what I'm talking about :D
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
I'm back to work on annotating the sessions after a long hiatus. I'll admit that not only was I physically unable to work, I was psychologically unable because 1997 was a year of tremendous transition in my life and, while there was joy, there was a LOT of suffering and chaos. I suppose, in a way, it was a microcosm of what the planet is experiencing now. Anyway, the first volume through May is published and now I'm working on the second volume. I think that the only way I was able to get my brain back in gear after two years of physical horror/pain was thanks to reading Collingwood and Engberg-Pedersen. I DO think it did something to my brain, something very beneficial.

But, that's not the real aim of this post; the aim is to share something curious I found in the email exchanges between me and Ark in late July of 1997. It was the day after the July 27, 1997 session and I'll include several emails so the context is evident. You will see that we were worrying about things 20 years ago that were actually slated (as the Cs clearly told us) to occur in the future. Like everybody, I was having a difficult time with the Cs revelations. But, in the midst of this, I had a dream and it is the dream that I think is important in the context of this thread; maybe there is a clue there?

We start off with Ark whose comments have two carets (>>) mine have one (>)
> > Have been reading early C sessions.
> > Making notes.
> > Thought need to read all and memorize and
> > think over and decide what to do with all
> > this. Doing is needed. But what kind of?
>
> I don't exactly know either, yet. All I can think to do at the
> moment is just continue to amass information, thinking that, at some
> point some piece will be added to the system that will cause it to do
> the "reorganizing" of my thinking for me.
[...]
> > So I was reading these C sessions again, the very first
> > ones, the first six of them. Have been thinking, have been
> > making some little computing - why is it so that a large
> > mass needs 18 years of time. How large is the mass?
>
> Well, I don't know. Perhaps you ought to make a list of questions as
> you come across these things...
>
> > My naive computing tells it can be 10 million tons. Can it
> > be so?
>
> Honey, I don't even have a CLUE!!! I can't even conceive of that much!
>
> > But WHY there is a relation between gravity wave and comet cluster?
> > WHY?
>
> Well, they said that there is not always. That it just happens to be
> that the "grand cycle" is coinciding with the comet cluster at THIS
> time, so it is cycles within cycles...
>
> > Yes, but what can we do NOW? TODAY?
>
> As they once answered this question this way: "Knowledge input on a
> continual basis..."

>
> And, I am doing the best I can to do this!!!
>
> > Thinking a little bit about planets and cataclysms.
> > We know 3600y is the period. Suppose that is true. Then
> > when will it be? 2012? How is wave related to comets?
>
> There is more on that in a later session... in several of them, in
> fact... it all needs to be edited together...
>
> > Why? What can we do in order not to be food?
>
> I think that the idea is to be able to accumulate sufficient
> knowledge energy and "technique" to be able to "create" a different
> universe, to foil the plan of the Lizzies... to "pierce the spider,"
> or the "weaver of the web." Or, to weave a different web... I am
> not sure which analogy works best.
>
> There are some other thoughts I have about it sort of teasing at the
> back of my mind, but they are not in the realm of articulation yet...

That evening (my time) Frank came over and was rather excited about what was going on in the media. It seems that the Phoenix Lights sighting from March 13, 1997, was generating a lot of attention in the mainstream news.

> The Phoenix Lights was a mass UFO sighting which occurred in Phoenix, Arizona, and Sonora, Mexico...
>
> Lights of varying descriptions were reported by thousands of people between 19:30 and 22:30 MST, in a space of about 300 miles (480 km), from the Nevada line, through Phoenix, to the edge of Tucson.
>
> There were allegedly two distinct events involved in the incident: a triangular formation of lights seen to pass over the state, and a series of stationary lights seen in the Phoenix area. The United States Air Force later identified the second group of lights as flares dropped by A-10 Warthog aircraft that were on training exercises at the Barry Goldwater Range in southwest Arizona.
>
> Witnesses claim to have observed a huge V-shaped (several football field sized), coherently-moving dark UFO (stars would disappear behind the object and reappear as it passed by), producing no sound, and containing five spherical lights or possibly light-emitting engines. Fife Symington, the governor at the time, was one witness to this incident. As governor he ridiculed the idea of alien origin, but several years later he called the lights he saw "otherworldly" after admitting he saw a similar UFO. [...]
>
> There was minimal news coverage at the time of the incident. In Phoenix, a small number of local news outlets noted the event, but it received little attention beyond that. But on June 18, 1997, USA Today ran a front-page story that brought national attention to the case. This was followed by news coverage on the ABC and NBC television networks. The case quickly caught the popular imagination and has since become a staple of UFO-related documentary television, including specials produced by the History Channel and the Discovery Channel.[^68108]

What strikes me as curious today[^68166], as I am writing about this, is the fact that the Heaven's Gate Cult suicides occurred exactly 13 days later on 26 March 1997.

Anyway, back to the past: I wrote to Ark about this discussion with Frank:

> There was a news show on while I was talking to Frank and he
> turned it up so I could hear it and it was a VERY serious discussion
> of the sightings in Phoenix in March. They had scientific "experts"
> telling how it could NOT be anything simple and ordinary. Before, it
> was always the other way... they would tell all the reasons why it
> MUST have an ordinary explanation.
>
> Frank said that there are 4 to 5 shows about it on television every
> day now, and that yesterday there was a "scientific" discussion where
> one scientist opined that, from what we know about sociology and
> tribal behavior among species of animals, we cannot but surmise that
> any aliens that would make contact with us would be anything but
> aggressive and UNfriendly!
>
> Then, there was a German scientist who was urging that we find a way
> to protect our "art and knowledge and elite peoples..." or something
> like that.
>
> Another who was saying that contact with aliens was "inevitable," and
> then a tape recording of Admiral Inman, (secretly recorded) was
> played where he said that eventually the public would have to know.
>
> So, Frank says it is absolutely UNBELIEVABLE the amount of
> information - the saturation of the TV stations - with all of the
> alien stuff...
>
> So, I became rather terrified that you would not get here in time...
> But, anyway, I am trying to stay calm about it. We will certainly be
> following the subject next Saturday WITHOUT any interference.

A little later I wrote:

> Well, I am a little more settled, but I have to admit that my stomach
> is churning and I feel almost in a state of panic.
>
> And, on top of everything, Percy escaped by digging his way out under
> the front of the house, went out and a car hit him. Thankfully, it
> was not going fast and he was just struck sort of a sideways blow. I
> think he must have run into the car from the way {my son} described it.
> He was after a cat. He is in the kitchen and he seems to be alright,
> but it was VERY upsetting. All I need right now is to have to pay a
> vet bill to have the dog mended!!! I can't even afford to have one
> of the kids mended if it was necessary. So, that's it. When Percy
> goes, no more dogs that we can't afford to keep!
>
> So, I feel like pacing the floor and wringing my hands just now, but
> I will be better after a bit. I will take a melatonin and settle
> down to read myself to sleep.
>
> Which reminds me, I have a little clip-on lamp that I mounted on the
> headboard of the bed for reading and it really helps a lot. And, it
> is handy to have it right there to turn out when one is ready to go
> to sleep. No getting up to reach the lamps! You will like it... if
> we ever get to use it... and aren't invaded by aliens first and
> carried off to concentration camps or something!
>
> I am okay.
> I just sometimes get a little crazy because all I ever really wanted
> was to have a nice, happy life with my ONE, and my children, and make
> jelly and garden a little and be kissed at night and enjoy music and
> art and books... and kiss the ones I love and feed them and give them
> love and support and make everything nice and pleasant and peaceful
> and happy....
>
> Of course, I had this funny little glitch in my personality that made
> me want to KNOW everything... and made me dissatisfied with anything
> less than what was true...
>
> So I feel like Pandora who has opened the box that can never be shut
> again...
>
> But, I guess no pain, no gain.... without all of that, there would
> not be YOU, and that is worth ANYTHING and EVERYTHING.
>
> So, it will be fine, as you say... but how much I wish I could wake
> up the world to what is happening... but they simply don't want to
> know. Even Terry and Jan still think it is all still sort of a funny
> game.
>
> I will go to bed now so that you can get to work. I know that there
> is a LOT you have to do, and you also need to be alert at ALL times
> for any and all unexpected things...
>
> And when I wake up, hopefully I will be in a frame of mind where I
> can type and get some things done. It is not the time to baby myself
> just now. There is too much to do.
>
> So, I will get in the bed, and try to read until the melatonin
> works...

I went to bed but not long after I was up again for awhile because my son was having an asthma attack. It was probably a combination of the upset of the dog's accident and the dog's presence itself. I think it is most interesting that in the session we just had the previous night, the Cs had specifically signaled about the dog and my son's asthma and I had just commented about not being able to afford to take any of the kids to the doctor. After I had things under control, I sent a quick message to Ark and went back to bed:

> I have been up with {my son} who was having a rather serious asthma
> attack. He kept saying he was fine and didn't need anything, but I
> could hear him coughing and struggling to breathe, so I got up and
> took care of things. He is better, and ought to be able
> to get some sleep, poor baby.
>
> Now, I am going back to bed. I can hardly hold my eyes open!

The following morning, I responded to an account of Ark's doings while I was sleeping:

> It is so funny for you to be doing so many things while I sleep. I
> know that we are rather used to it, but it still feels funny to be so
> out of sync with our time.
{...}
> I am still trying to remember this strange dream I had and can't get
> it back. I remember one part where I was getting messages from you
> and they were on slips of paper, delivered by a third party. Then,
> there was something about books and knowledge and that it DID
> something in a certain way if the books were stacked on the shelves
> just so.
But, I can't remember. Well, maybe it will come back to me
> later. It rather seems like it was a sort of cosmic shield.
What interested me today was my perception that the books had to be "stacked on the shelves just so" and that this was some sort of "cosmic shield."

I think that books, obviously, represent knowledge, and the shelves may represent the architecture of the brain/mind: how that knowledge is assimilated and organized and CONNECTED when the books are stacked "just so" OR each book could represent a different person in a network and how they are connected, or "stacked on the shelf just so.". My impression was that this "organization of knowledge" was a Cosmic Shield.

Anyway, this struck me as another of those strange coincidences when what I am working on from 20 years ago has apparently direct relevance to the present.
 

Anthony

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
genero81 said:
Yes, thank you for that luc. I would say you found the essential elements in Collingwood's defense of his own arguments.

I just finished the fourth book on the reading list; Gurdjieff and Hypnosis. Holy sh*t! That was a roller coaster ride! Tamdgidi did a fantastic job! I had to slow down a little on reading and give some time to digest the first four books. They all contained heavy duty information or intense perspectives or both. It was a little unsettling at times. I wanted to say I felt a little confused on where all of it was going, but I think disoriented (temporarily) is a better term. As far as G goes, I would say he believed that people were essentially lost to the possibility of overcoming the mass hypnosis of the "herd mentality" and so he probably figured since they had no real chance of fulfilling their true reason for being, he justified in his own mind that he could use them for his purposes which would ultimately be for their own good or the good of the human race. As the saying goes; "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." In the conclusion Tamgdgidi writes: "In the absence of an all round self-knowledge and "self-mastery" over all forms of hypnotic influence, including that exerted by the well intentioned "archangel" or teacher, the subconscious mind remains only an automated process devoid of flexibility to respond to the ever changing conditions of teaching and life" Which I believe explains pretty well why the G groups are barren. Life is a continual learning experience based on circumstances as they unfold. The mysteriousness of G was consciously intended creation of his writing. I immediately thought of Castaneda as well.

So now we know. I made a start on the second Raine book but I just purchased Samenow's book and I think I will go ahead and read it for a change in perspective if that's alright.
And contrast that with this forum, where there is emphasis on free will, knowledge, awareness etc. The difference lies in the cosmology, in terms of Gurdjieff it's materialism, as Tamdgidi shows, and it terms of the forum it's the C's and further research.
 

Altair

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Laura said:
Samenow and Ressler don't give a hoot about the mechanics of the brain in technical terms; they are interested in its output. They don't even care about emotions; they are only concerned with thinking processes. As they point out, it is thoughts that trigger emotions and many - if not most - people operate with serious thinking errors. In many cases, these thinking errors grow and develop over time. That's the scary part.

These "thinking errors", from our perspective, are pretty much just "wishful thinking" and serious dissociating into fantasy. On this, "The Myth of the Out of Character Crime" is the clearest exposition. He uses his notes from interviews to illustrate actual case histories.

There is the same thread of "thinking errors" highlighted in Ressler's book about FBI profiling. In this book, the crimes are a LOT worse than the ones that Samenow writes about. But the same basic cause is highlighted: wishful thinking and dissociation, i.e. thinking errors; the person comes to prefer or believe their fantasies over reality.
It's indeed scary. I was thinking today that if 4D STS are so prone to wishful thinking (as C's constantly repeated) and it appears to be their weakest spot then how much influence it can exert on us humans and how important its counteraction may be if we want to align ourselves with 3D/4D STO?
 

Corvus

Jedi Council Member
Altair,
I think they are under more influence by it, because they are 4D, even if we are sts here, it is not full range and so extreme and some are going more in another direction. They are there by their willing choice which gives it much more strength. But still how much messed up and self absorbed you have to be to think reality conforms to you, it is something beyond my comprehension, like deciding to abolish your reason and become complete chemical junky. It makes you think from where that ideology you create your own reality by thinking it comes from.

Laura,
thanks for your offered help, I am on Collingwood still, and it is more a matter of time, still have to get also to EE after longer lacking in this area and being more aware in everyday life, but latley I am emotional and fed up with most of things and speak my mind- among family, on the job, because I was mostly silent in my life and see that it gets you not realy far away, most take it as a weakness to be used, and speaking the truth even in the face of adversity gives me peace and freedom. The alternative is purposless.
 

stellar

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Altair said:
Laura said:
Samenow and Ressler don't give a hoot about the mechanics of the brain in technical terms; they are interested in its output. They don't even care about emotions; they are only concerned with thinking processes. As they point out, it is thoughts that trigger emotions and many - if not most - people operate with serious thinking errors. In many cases, these thinking errors grow and develop over time. That's the scary part.

These "thinking errors", from our perspective, are pretty much just "wishful thinking" and serious dissociating into fantasy. On this, "The Myth of the Out of Character Crime" is the clearest exposition. He uses his notes from interviews to illustrate actual case histories.

There is the same thread of "thinking errors" highlighted in Ressler's book about FBI profiling. In this book, the crimes are a LOT worse than the ones that Samenow writes about. But the same basic cause is highlighted: wishful thinking and dissociation, i.e. thinking errors; the person comes to prefer or believe their fantasies over reality.
It's indeed scary. I was thinking today that if 4D STS are so prone to wishful thinking (as C's constantly repeated) and it appears to be their weakest spot then how much influence it can exert on us humans and how important its counteraction may be if we want to align ourselves with 3D/4D STO?
Upon reading the above brought to mind the July 19 '95 session on what causes individuals to commit crimes. One answer the C's gave was the alteration of blood, body and brain chemistry through the use of ultra-high frequency sound waves. Well, today that seems to be everywhere. The world has gone nuts. And when they specifically mention the black race having a higher level of a hormone secreted by the pituitary gland, which I understood as an adaptation of living in a jungle, so to say, and the survival mode thinking, already that tells me that we are far from and even playing field.

As the 4D knowledge is way above ours in technology, it would be easy to locate and manipulate the pertinent chemicals in the different races to behave a certain way. Then there is the centuries of inter breading and the amount of knowledge they would have on that and its combinations is mind boggling. It does not surprise me that there are so many theories and conclusion, even tentative, about the reasons for 'thinking errors'.

I mean our whole diet regimen including supplements, detox etc. and constant input of knowledge of the truth (obfuscated as it sometimes can be) still leaves us with a helluva lot of work to do on just tuning our machines to basically just make it from day to day. If it weren't for networking we would be screwed if left to our own devices and even then there are constant attacks. Even among participants I constantly see some who just don't seem to be able to grok what may be considered basic need-to-know information and though some do try, it's as if they just can't seem to get past a certain barrier in the brain.

Is it chemical, entrained behaviour/beliefs, genetic (again leads me back to chemical), environmental intellect, or likely a combination that is the cause. We are talking billions of people and the odds do not look like they favour the survival of very many.

Now, as we/Earth transitions to 4D, supposedly we become enabled with the same capabilities mentally, physically, whatever, and we strive toward the greatest possible expression of STO by choice, it is apparently possible to be completely cognisant of all existence according to the C's in the 5 Aug session. Does that mean that STS is still not able to recognise 'wishful thinking' even though they are 'fully cognisant' of the power of thought at that point? So what is the cause of disconnect? What, if any chemicals are influencing their thought patterns at the 4D level?

The C's also say that orientation, STS/STO, has to do with vibrational frequency, the emotional pathway and nothing to do with one's ability to conceive complicated issues and intricate answers. Now, if thoughts create emotions then it stands to reason that specific chemicals which affect the (neurons) thoughts would have to enter the physical body in some way OR the actual energy vibration of the body affects the present chemicals to transform/transmute and feed the new cocktail of chemicals back to affect the thoughts. Then that leads me to possible mutation in the form of reactivating 'junk' DNA her in 3D and which strand ends up creating what new expression mentally and physically, but I'll stop here because....too many pages in the mind screen makes for slightly overwhelmed Stella :lol: My 2 bits FWIW
 

nature

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
I've just began IoH.
This part caught my attention, from P 98
In spite of his exaggerations, Kant has made a great contribution to historical thought. At the end of his essay he outlines a programme for a kind of historical inquiry which, he says, has not yet been undertaken, and, he modestly adds, could not be undertaken by one so little learned in history as himself: a universal history which shall show how the human race has gradually become more and more rational, and therefore more and more free: a history of the self-development of the spirit of man. Such a task, he says, will need two qualifications: historical learning and a philosophical head. Mere scholarship will not do it, and mere philosophy will not do it; the two must be combined into a new form of thought owing something to both of them. Similarly, Vico, at the beginning of the century, demanded what he described as a union of philology and philosophy, a scholarly attention to detail and a philosophical attention to principles. I think we may say that in the next hundred years a serious and sustained attempt was made, certainly not always successful, to carry out Kant’s programme, and to consider history as the process by which the spirit of man has come to the fuller and fuller development of its original potentialities
Why a human can't do both tasks? It reminds me of the brain's splitting (corpus callosum) and leads me to 2 questions:
- Is an under-development of this corpus is one of the reasons why we don't have a mosaic view? (other reason can be the underdevelopment of our prefrontal area).

- Our corpus callosum is less developped than the successfull psychopaths', making us less succesfull in certain domains, fields, then disadvantaged compared to them. Ex: they are keen on calculating, planning, observing details, etc. Is there a means to develop our corpus callosum (increasing neurons synapses towards the other hemisphere, and neurotransmitters flow?
I'm looking forward to reading other books recommended (on brain anatomy), maybe I'll have a clue?
 

monotonic

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
In the chapter on Toynbee, Collingwood shows that a positivistic conception of history leads to the attitude that history is dead, because it treats the differentia of history the same way you would treat physical objects - as having solid boundaries so that something can only be part of one object or totally separate from it. This strips the historical narrative of process - where one thing becomes another by incorporating elements of another thing and rejecting other elements. In this view the present cannot be perceived as what proceeds from the past and so seems isolated from it the same way you would seem isolated from a fire in the distance. However if the fire comes closer and burns down your house, you cannot argue that the fire was isolated. It was isolated physically at first, but to historical thought the reality of it's connection to you through the process of combustion is no less real than it's physical isolation at the beginning of the process.
 

biala84

Jedi
FOTCM Member
Me i'm reading Colingwood and i like it, because it's opening the view, but i'm not saying that is not a bit difficult. I think the idea of that book is to understand that the people who create pressupositional of age sometimes without knowing they inerprete wrong a facts of history and that bring them to missunderstood and maybe give wrong example to the future generations if the person who create a history mix a history with religion or politic. When i was in the school i never wanted to learn a history, because i felt something maybe is wrong and now when i'm reading this book i think it was good, because i could belive in desinformation without knowing that. In the school they give us a wrong example of history because they don't care about how they people lived and what was their real problems in that times and if the person who create a history cannot understand the point of view or knowing how that person was thinking who was create a history it means they cannot also make a real history. Also what i like in that book is that a writer showing Us how some of them(who create a history) thay have a bad interrest to create a history for example to manipulate a human mind..
 

Laura

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Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
nature said:
I've just began IoH.
This part caught my attention, from P 98
<snip>

Why a human can't do both tasks? It reminds me of the brain's splitting (corpus callosum) and leads me to 2 questions:
- Is an under-development of this corpus is one of the reasons why we don't have a mosaic view? (other reason can be the underdevelopment of our prefrontal area).

- Our corpus callosum is less developped than the successfull psychopaths', making us less succesfull in certain domains, fields, then disadvantaged compared to them. Ex: they are keen on calculating, planning, observing details, etc. Is there a means to develop our corpus callosum (increasing neurons synapses towards the other hemisphere, and neurotransmitters flow?
I'm looking forward to reading other books recommended (on brain anatomy), maybe I'll have a clue?
Yes, the other books discuss this issue of the corpus callosum - can't recall if it is Raine or Fallon - I think it may be Fallon who goes into it specifically. Apparently, you don't want a thicker CC.
 

nature

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
:)

After reading these 100 pages of IoH, the idea that comes to me is: our individual evolution is similar to human's history.
- individual: Our discover of life (baby), social interactions (childhood), experiences, our errors, then our health problems and aging (elderly), with remords or dramas left behind us. All this marked by predator's mind (or wetiko virus) which drove our thinkings and deeds. And at the end of our life, this feeling we haven't lived fully, we have been driven by bad acts and missed something important.

- collective, history: good intentions at the begining of communities, then vices when communities grew, influenced too by predator's mind, with the result we know i.e. horrible and endless wars.

The only means to get away such bad situation: getting rid of our predator's mind, our programs, etc. On an individual level: the work, diet, developing our brain, etc.
On a collective, world level: that people realize the terror of the situation, networking, informing via internet, not feeding the elites, etc.
 

trytofly

Jedi
I ordered the only book of Ressler in French to my knowledge.
I just received it. I did not think so when I bought it, but to my surprise this is the translation of "Whoever Fights Monsters". :D

For those who are interested :

https://www.amazon.fr/Chasseur-tueurs-Robert-Ressler/dp/2258036399/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1512067319&sr=1-2&keywords=ressler

or

http://www.priceminister.com/offer/buy/904323/Ressler-Robert-Chasseurs-De-Tueurs-Livre.html
 
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