3600 Year Cycle: Where's the evidence?

[axj]

A perplexity for me here, too, goes to the 20° as being a consequence of Venus, rather than one due to the comet cluster.

Yes, good find. The tilt was more likely caused by Venus I think due to its mass (almost same mass as Earth), whereas the comet cluster probably has a lower mass. The C's said that the largest comet there is about the size of dwarf planet Ceres (0.016% of Earth mass), so even dozens of such comets in the cluster would have a much lower overall mass than Venus. Though electromagnetic effects could also play a role.

In the October 1994 session you quoted above the C's seem to confirm that the comet cluster was here in 1588 BC, but that was before the phantom years were known to Laura. Still, it looks like Venus passed by close to Earth at least a few hundred years before the comet cluster.

 

[palestine]

Yes, good find. The tilt was more likely caused by Venus I think due to its mass (almost same mass as Earth), whereas the comet cluster probably has a lower mass. The C's said that the largest comet there is about the size of dwarf planet Ceres (0.016% of Earth mass), so even dozens of such comets in the cluster would have a much lower overall mass than Venus. Though electromagnetic effects could also play a role.

In the October 1994 session you quoted above the C's seem to confirm that the comet cluster was here in 1588 BC, but that was before the phantom years were known to Laura. Still, it looks like Venus passed by close to Earth at least a few hundred years before the comet cluster.

Thank you

I am yet, in regard of the 20° tilt, unable to think outside of a very basic idea - "a stick in midst of the planet and undergoing a 20° change". The rotation of the planet seems to play a role in term of consequence, and as the 20° tilt has been a slow process, it is hard to figure out a scenario. I am at a very basic train of thought, here, sorry.

I still come up with the idea that the modification of the axis has set itself at a location. Ultimately, this suggests that one area which was sub-tropical, becomes sup-tropical, and the opposite motion for the opposite side of the planet.

This in turns yields a lot of interrogations, one being if it would be possible to find this, in dendrochronology for instance. That would be unless the subtropical areas would be located midst of the ocean. Dendrochronology may be able to pinpoint trees who underwent acute symptoms of those tropical motions.

In addition, the introduction of seasons is a big one; again, dendrochronology may be of help, because trees would start to feature signs of seasons... The introduction of seasons seems to amount to the establishing of a cycle, a yet inexisting one prior. I cannot prevent myself from feeling teleological in this aspect, tempted to believe how "The Information Field" may have literally "introduced seasons" on the Planet. Another scenario would be that this was an artificially-induced STS modification.

A basic question that which comes to mind has to do with the poles & the ice; this will be a very simple chunk in this post, because I am discovering those matters right now, and I can only rely on my geographical courses, twenty years ago.

The question of why, after all, is there ice at the poles, came by. A first idea was that when there are no seasons, the planet would be kind of stable, with a mono-vertical axis. This would produce two basic configurations: hot in the middle, and cold at the poles. But this does not tell me why "it's cold at the extremities", and hot in the middle. My model may be wrong, then.

Any way. A 20° tilt introduced seasons. I understand that this may be due to earth spinning motion. Since there is an angle (instead of a mono vertical axis), when the planet spins, it has 100% wide consequences. It's like a spiraling motion has been introduced.

And so, you see, I as I can fathom that my perspective is foggy.. I remain wondering if the idea "before the tilt, two "iced" poles" is correct. The main cog in all of those thoughts has to deal with the fact that today, we got two iced poles. One basic idea tells me that wherever the axis is located, ice will start to accumulate at both extremities. I tell myself that with seasons + a 20° tilt, ice form at the poles. What is the situation, when it's vertical? Just willing to nail down the situation in term of ice, landmass distribution prior to the tilt. And, in addition, this would be a historical chunk that we could correlate with the situation "after YD" happened. In terms of pole, ice, etc distribution and motions. Well - just writing correct history for basic "things". Seems there is a "niche" here. A sort of mattering "hinge" between the YD and today.

So this is all very basic physic of geography and I am not clear with many concepts & principles.

I can still see some interesting points:

- texts older than 2500 BCE, telling about winter and summer, would be considered as "suspects"
- Ice cores, tree rings, etc - would start featuring a yet inexisting cycle, right after the tilt.

Would it be of interest than to know the duration, for the establishing of the 20° tilt? I assume that a skilled dendrochronologist would be able to nail this down.

° Perhaps a bit less impacting - still an idea: the Venus interaction, that which triggered the tilt, may be reflected in the same manner than the three minimums that you skillfully explained / summed up:

Session 1 November 2025

Another confirmation is that the Spoerer Minimum (1420-1570) and Dalton Minimum (1790-1820), which came before and after the Maunder Minimum (1645-1715), can be explained with the entry and exit of the brown dwarf into and out of the heliosphere of the Sun:

Solar Minima Timeline and Brown Dwarf Passage

Heliosphere Shape:

The Sun's heliosphere is not a sphere. It is a teardrop shape due to the Sun's motion through the galaxy.
The Nose (short side, ~120 AU) points toward the constellation Hercules.
The Tail (long side, >350 AU) stretches out in the opposite direction.
The Flanks (sides) are at intermediate distances.

Historical Solar Minima:

Spoerer Minimum (midpoint c. 1505 CE) - HELIOSPHERE ENTRY
Entry: The brown dwarf entered from the direction of Cygnus (on the tailward flank).
Distance: It crossed the heliopause at approximately 187 AU.

Maunder Minimum (midpoint c. 1678 CE) - CLOSEST APPROACH
Location: The brown dwarf reached its perihelion at approximately 40 AU near the constellations Gemini/Orion.
This was the period of deepest solar inactivity.

Dalton Minimum (midpoint c. 1805 CE) - HELIOSPHERE EXIT
Exit: The brown dwarf exited toward the direction of Auriga (on the noseward flank).
Distance: It crossed the heliopause at approximately 156 AU.

Conclusion:
The proposed flyby created a ~300-year transit through the heliosphere. The timing of its entry (187 AU), closest approach (40 AU), and exit (156 AU) aligns precisely with the three historically observed periods of suppressed solar activity, providing a potential unified explanation for these events.

So, the above shows that the sun's companion interacted with earth, during this period, and that we may clearly define three moments: approaching (gravity effect), during (gravity effect), and leaving ("").

My idea was that the Venus close encounter with earth may be reflected like the above - some "bowls" (approaching - during - leaving).

If the comet cluster attracted Venus, the chronological sequence would be "comet cluster gravitational effect", then "Venus gravitational effect", with a sort of buffer in-between - the blend of both gravitational effects. (I was pondering if it would be possible to isolate Venus gravitational effect, as clearly as the three minimas). But I cannot qualify the heavyness of the gravitational effect of the comet cluster. SO this is just a very hypothetical idea.

° In addition, I am wondering what the implications are, with the introduction of seasons, with the sun. How this would be reflected, the study of sun spots, all the bowls and the sun cycles, in tree rings for example.

An idea would be that if seasons "started", overall... Bold cycles may be appearing on all the various markers, at some point. The idea is that this is something that could be identified. The hypothesis is that the data series would show this. I am not sure. This would manifest via the appearance of a new cycle, in tree rings and else, at some point.

Located completely outside of the expected range of course?

"Unfortunately", the 20° degree shift seems to have been expanding on some time, but would it still possible to spectate it? I mean: no seasons > seasons, in tree rings, would certainly show a stable flat curve, and then the appearance of curves.

This could help in terms of datation discrepancies for all the data series (ice cores, etc).

---

Small general conclusion:

Most world views believe that civilization factors are "X", "Y", "Z", while we see, here, that a big set of many many motions are not well-known or studied. The main variables are not the ones we would think of, then. It's not simply "the economy", or "oil".

A lukewarm idea is that we would need to factor "cosmic events" a bit more.

A hotter one is that "cosmic motions" are the main "conditioner" for all to happen.

Pierre skillfully highlighted the existence of "The Information Field", a "consciousness" deciding & "decreeting" evolutionary steps for the Planet. "Intelligent design". The principles that those motions are not bound to a mechanical conscious-less origin.

So: we did not know about those events - and here you are, there is already an additional intellectual layer to study!

 

[seek10]

@seek10 Yes it would be nice to know more about the principles of the anthropocosmic connection!

If you haven't read Pierre's book, you may want to read.

Since the axial tilt changed by 20 degrees around 2300 BC according to the C's, this would have been when the last visit of the 3600 years large comet cluster actually happened if the 470 added phantom years are taken into account.

The "before" would have been indeed quite different on Earth, as there would have been basically no seasons anywhere. The current tilt is 23 degrees, so minus 20 degrees means there was almost no tilt before the "Exodus cataclysm" about 3600 years ago.

All the data points around this period ( 3500 BCE - 2000 BCE) can't be explained by 3600 year cycle asteroids alone. There are bigger players during this time. From cosmology chart

Most important player is Venus. Venus is almost as big as the Earth. Imagine the consequences of comet of 7000 miles size settling between 2 planets.

• The horror it produces when it comes nearer to the earth while having humungous tail of burning gases and worse, particularly when it is trying to settle down in the orbit. Emanuel Velikovsky wrote about convulsions of the earth in 'Worlds in Collision' when earth interact with Venus's tail and other gravity related phenomenon. There are some descriptions in the Mike Bailie's The Celtic Gods: Comets in Irish Mythology too.
• According to C's , 3218 BCE, its 1st Venus interaction and 2676 BCE last interaction ( 542 years between).
  • i.e. it can easily knock ( at best gently push) the planet's orbits.
  • C's validated Velikovsky's hypothesis that Venus made 52 years period around that time. C's also said it made

Q: (L) Was Velikovsky correct when he said Venus was on a 52 year orbit during a certain period in our history?

A: Close.

Q: (L) How many passes did Venus make through the solar system before it was precipitated into a regular planetary orbit?

A: 7

session-28-december-2019

(Pierre) When Venus was a comet in the solar system thousands of years ago, was the orbital period of Venus constant?

A: Became so gradually.

Q: (Pierre) Okay, that's what I suspected. So my next question is: Remember there were five passes of the cometary Venus near Earth. How many years ago each of these five passes occurred?

A: You can work that out! No shortcuts! Ask Laura!

5*52 = 260 years not 542 . So Not all 5 iterations are of same 52 years and it makes sense as one can't put sudden break.

We have asteroid belt next to Mars. any new object tries settle will push of planets of earth and Mars, that can easily loosen some asteroid belt object. and then we have Giant comet disintegrated pieces orbiting. So much mix up of these objects going on during that times it is very difficult to know what caused what.

Mandelker hypothesized 2300 BCE events are due to Giant comet debris. C's said Venus is Stalinized from history by Greeks ( most probably migrants from north) and probably before Rome was built. What about others around the world?
- Russians are later development from 700 AD , Native Americans in Americas are wiped out, Chinese are into Confucius and Buddhism.

Venus in Hinduism

I wondered whether I can get insight of Venus of that time into in Hinduism while placing C's data points as 'Source of Truth'. Planet Venus is called Sukra in Hinduism and it is part of planet's list. How and When did it became part of Planet list

• C's mentioned in the last session that Ramayan is written around 9000 BCE. It supposed to have been attributed to Valmiki and he has other writings . I have bought set of books called 'Yoga Vasistha by Valmiki' long time back, but never bothered to read it. While scrolling through The word Sukra in Table of contents picked my curiosity. The descriptions are similar to Vishnu in Rigveda ( YD period) though in mythical format. i.e. some Indian groups used word Sukra and Vedic group used 'Vishnu' for cometary Venus. There is Lot of overlap of characters between them. True, most of them religiously replicated over long time.
• Then came Venus settling period and it became most important object around 3000 BCE and responsible for lot of destructions 2300 BCE, exodus and so on. Velikovsky wrote extensively about it.

Currently Vishnu is represented as deity sleeping on curls of snake tail on the the infinite milk ocean. Though there are infinite variations of artistic representation, the most common feature is that. Here is a Link. ( ocean of milk diffused gases in the the cosmos, curling tail bed as venus orbital travel with fumes of tail still visible , shock and awe it produces, that close approach can produces earthquakes and so on) i.e. influencers of the time ( priests, writers, Rishis') has no option except to make Vishu important for general acceptance. They have to write new corpus as Puranas incorporating previous literature, Organize it on dominant Trinity (Vishnu, Siva) Puranas etc.

This will explain few things like Why Vishnu suddenly became important, how all the previous observations became his incarnations (including 50 KYA Rama) and Why Hinduism has so many deities.

• India a not uniform land mass or set of groups or tribes, but there is underlying belief system like a thread. How did they accomplish it ?
  • If one has to be 'inclusive' for acceptance, they have to incorporate every body's belief systems allowing them to do what they are doing, but create a overarching frame work. That is done to trinity format ( Vishnu ( preserver), Siva (destroyer) and Brahma ( creator) ). Brahma plays so less role in the Puranic schemes that was created after cometary Venus(aka Vishnu) settled down.

20 degrees tilt slowly.

If it is a single comet hitting planet earth, it could be like 7 degrees tilt like in Younger dryas( 10.9K BCE event). But the 20 degrees tilt around 2200 BCE is slowly changing one . There is some force that acted consistently for a period to make this happen. There is a data point from Vedveer Arya's chronology puzzled me. He says Puranas were written when the North pole is moving along constellation Draco. What if that force is Venus settling and it has impact of planetary tilt during that time?

session-26-july-1997

Q: Why was astrology absent from the myths of ancient Greece?

A: Not absent, "Stalinized."

Q: What does that mean?

A: Soviets removed Stalin from the history books when he fell from popularity. So, Greeks, Astrology... "Stalinized"...

Q: Why?

A: Deadly secrets would be revealed.

Q: Revealed to whom?

A: You.

Q: If we could find the pieces and put them together, they would show us the drama and the connection between 3rd and 4th density?

A: You would have to use the original astrology, before cosmic changes of a planetary nature; there was no Venus, for one example, and earth was oriented differently axially speaking.

I am not sure what those deadly secrets are and their connection to 3D/4D connection is. I suspect it is related to cometary destructions some thing like that ( thus making fakery of religious texts, thus undermining their control over populace) instead of some fancy technology.

How did the evolution of Hinduism is different from monotheist religions and who is running the show?
We know who is running the show. The whole spread of monotheism is linked to Alexander the Great.
session-24-june-2023

(seek10) Is it true that UFOs (great flying silvery shining shields) influenced Alexander the Great's world conquest? The siege of Tyre and his decision to not invade India?

A: Yes, Alexander was manipulated.

It is the Alexander the Great that laid the plumbing work through his conquests for the spread of the later day religions in the ME and Western hemisphere. Greek Myths are more like Hindu Myths. Why some body wants to get rid of Greek myths and replace it with monotheism? It is not the case with Hinduism? Why? Probably those are related to specific set of people and Northern hemisphere tend to get hit by comets most seriously?

Chronologically as we know from C's w.r.t 'Venus':

Monotheisms:
78K BCE Venus entry -> Atlantis -> YD ( 19 million of 6 billion survived, migrations)-> Zoroastrianism -> used by Akhenaten for creating monotheism ( 1600 BCE) -> 1100 BCE northern people migration to Greek (they still believed old Zeus and Titans etc.) -> Stalinization of Venus -> Rome Creation ( 600 BCE) -> Alexander the great conquests -> Alexandria library destruction and creation of early monotheism texts -> Caesar -> 540 AD black death and dark ages (until 1300 AD) -> monotheisms after 540 AD. Before that it is dubbed as paganism.

Hinduism:

78K BCE Venus entry -> Atlantis (Rama 50K YA) -> Younger Dryas (Rigveda writings Vishnu as comet Venus) -> Valmiki (Ramayana) 9000 BCE, Sukra as comet Venus in his writings -> Y-chromosomal bottle neck -> Aryan Invasion ( 6249 BCE, collection and grouping of Vedic bits and pieces, analysis in the form of Brahmana/Aranyaka's/Upanishads etc.) -> 3000 BCE (Venus settling period and its events) -> Puranic writings ( Cometary Venus became God Vishnu, Sukra became just a planet) -> Buddhism ( up to 180 AD) -> 540 AD Hinduism got upper hand over Buddhism -> Others from 1200 AD (Muslims and Christians, couldn't make too much conversion of the locals mainly due to specific economic reasons)

Crux of what I am trying to say is - Venus played major role during 3rd Millennium BCE and this tilt may also be related to that. Not all can be explained by 3600 year periodic comets.

 

[palestine]

I am not sure what those deadly secrets are and their connection to 3D/4D connection is. I suspect it is related to cometary destructions some thing like that ( thus making fakery of religious texts, thus undermining their control over populace) instead of some fancy technology.

To me, the fact that there were no "seasons" before is subversive enough! But your ideas in term of monotheism makes sense. Well - this would account for the establishing of a control system based on monotheism. I recall that it was at this time that lizards made an appearance, too (2300 it seems - I need to look back at the sessions). But - is this subversive enough...? AKA "deadly secret"? I am not sure. Well - in terms of manipulation of the masses, it surely is.

It's funny, I was picturing the subversion of the masses, with monotheist God, at 1000 AD, after the Crusades... So it was during Alexander the Great that monotheism was introduced.

I think that we have a couple of elements to gather and to think what could be, more or less, the direction, for "the deadly secret". At a first glance, if it's not about monotheism, it may have to deal with "time", "different time" - things like that. I have zero idea, of course, and this is why I hint at "seasons".

I was thinking that no-seasons + an axis tilt of 20° would feature a completely different world, before. Maybe, it was a world with more "things", principles, possibilities, etc? Giants... Well, on that note, we may take "deadly secret" at a first degree: "there was a deadly thing operating out there, before"

I am sorry that I am not that "scientific" on those matters so the result is me suggesting ideas. I try to stick around the variables at hand so as not to suggest off track ideas.

Why not something that could take in consideration both "seasons" + monotheism? What would it be? Can only be a general "thing".

Why some body wants to get rid of Greek myths and replace it with monotheism?

It seems to me that Laura been covering this exact moment in time/history. I recall an article ("The cosmic context of Greek philosophers") but it wasn't in part.I if I remember well. At the time, I had zero idea as to what she was speaking about so the article tilted but the content did not meet anything in my mind. Now, I can remember that she was clearly picturing that a shift between "old way of looking at cosmic events" - and a new framework - occurred. Comets became "Gods" (or the opposite, I cannot remember exactly), etc.

So, at least, we do have several elements: added to the shift towards monotheism, there is an apparition of lizards (which would accredit for an activity of some sort), and, too, the introduction of a new set of ideas. Overall, this time has been a shift towards a new intellectual framework.

What we could study would be than to understand how they managed to install the new framework. Normal people won't accept a "version 2.0 of how things run" like that. So, mass genocide, or else.

I see that Laura, after decades of efforts, has been reaching that exact moment in time. How odd. If there was nothing there, her "reality" wouldn't have led her there. I would think that she has been digging a whole lot, and that the results of her findings can be seen in the article above-mentioned (all the serie). It could be that the "deadly secret" remains to be found! That's because, as I said, well, yes, monotheism for all is quite bad, but there could be something really "deadly" / transcending to find out.

Hmm while thinking of this... You know, it was approx. at that time that Pierre left the study of plain comet dating & things, to head for "The Information Field". I suspect the key (the deadly secret) to be found in those waters. It could be about the UFT. But - it isn't that "deadly" strictly speaking... It would be "gravitationally nuts" - but not "deadly".

---

Thank you @seek10 for your post that has many interesting ideas in it! I am afraid that I cannot "throw the ball" back in terms of all the Indian cosmology, because it appears to be a very rich domain for exploration.

All of this is interesting. It looks like an unknown period in time, and that while we have been focusing on the YD, finding much and much - game-changing events ("Mars"-"Floods")... There exists a small period, susceptible of even greater wonders! I find this nice.

 

[palestine]

If I refer to the book "Women who run with the wolves", written by Clarrissa PINKOLA-ESTES, it is made an explicit mention of the cycle of "death-life-death" (or "life-death-life").

La Loba (also named La Lloroña, Coatlicue, Amaterasu among many nice names) is the boss in charge of the cycle. The cycle manifests via the seasons. At Fall, leaves die, to then be reborn in Spring. Death-Life cycle.

And so, I was thinking that if there were no seasons - how would La Loba have organized things down there, in terms of "selection"?

Seems organics (and humans too) require a "rythm".

 

[palestine]

For the sake of exhaustivity, here are the articles that I referred to:

The Cosmic Context of Greek Philosophy, Part One

Most of what is included in this post is directly from the book, Comet and the Horns of Moses, though selected and edited for brevity. I intend my main focus to be on the philosophers but I find that what I have written on that topic would be...

www.sott.net

The Cosmic Context of Greek Philosophy, Part Two

I know I said in the previous post that I would get right to the discussion of philosophers and philosophy in this post, but as I review my 400 page text, I realize that a few other things should be covered first. It will become clear why it is...

www.sott.net

The Cosmic Context of Greek Philosophy, Part Three

Following the previous post, I am going to include here a little table that lists the dates of the various cosmic catastrophes on Earth based on the four main sources discussed. There are other scientists who research and write on this topic that...

www.sott.net

The Cosmic Context of Greek Philosophy, Part Four

Before getting onto Homer and Hesiod and then to the philosophers, I'm going to include a couple of interesting individuals, similar to Orpheus, who can't be dated because of the legendary accretions surrounding them. There really isn't much to...

www.sott.net

The Cosmic Context of Greek Philosophy. Part Five

Source The Agenda of the Milesian School In 1997, William Mullen, Professor of Classical Studies at Bard College, gave a conference talk entitled: Natural Catastrophes during Bronze Age Civilisation in which he outlined what he saw as the Agenda...

www.sott.net

 

[Gaby]

For the sake of exhaustivity, here are the articles that I referred to:

That is in part taken from Laura's "Horns of Moses" book. Here are parts 6 to 12th. Or just read Horns of Moses.

Part 6

The Cosmic Context of Greek Philosophy: Part Six

Arkadiusz Jadczyk

ark-jadczyk.blogspot.com

Part 7

The Cosmic Context of Greek Philosophy: Part Seven

Arkadiusz Jadczyk

ark-jadczyk.blogspot.com

Part 8

The Cosmic Context of Greek Philosophy: Part Eight

Arkadiusz Jadczyk

ark-jadczyk.blogspot.com

Part 9

The Cosmic Context of Greek Philosophy: Part Nine

Arkadiusz Jadczyk

ark-jadczyk.blogspot.com

Part 10

The Cosmic Context of Greek Philosophy: Part Ten

Arkadiusz Jadczyk

ark-jadczyk.blogspot.com

Part 11

The Cosmic Context of Greek Philosophy: Part Eleven

Arkadiusz Jadczyk

ark-jadczyk.blogspot.com

 

[axj]

In addition, the introduction of seasons is a big one; again, dendrochronology may be of help, because trees would start to feature signs of seasons

Looking into dendochronology is a very good idea regarding possible evidence for the absence of seasons before the 3rd millenium BC.

I asked Deepseek and it also brought up evidence from ice cores, coral reefs, lake sediment layers, as well as an apparent lack of solstice related constructions or seasonal rituals before then:

Conventional paleoclimate models assume that Earth’s axial tilt and orbital precession have driven predictable seasonality throughout the Holocene. However, an alternative interpretation of high-resolution proxy records suggests that pronounced global seasons may be a relatively recent phenomenon, emerging abruptly near 2600 BC (~4.5 ka BP).

1. Ice Core Seasonal Amplitude Reduction​

Observation: In Greenland ice cores (GRIP, GISP2, NGRIP), the amplitude of the annual δ¹⁸O cycle is reduced in the early to mid-Holocene (~11,700–~4,000 years BP), with lowest amplitudes around 8,000–5,000 BP.

Interpretation under your theory:
This could be evidence not just of reduced seasonality at the site, but of a global lack of pronounced seasons. If Earth’s axial tilt were near zero (or much smaller), the seasonal temperature contrast would diminish globally. Greenland’s ice layers would still form (due to snowfall variations), but the isotopic difference between “summer” and “winter” would be minimal — matching the observed low amplitude before ~2600 BC.

Supporting study:
Dansgaard, W., et al. (1993) “Evidence for general instability of past climate from a 250-kyr ice-core record.” Nature — shows Holocene δ¹⁸O amplitude lower than in glacial periods and late Holocene.

---

2. Tree-Ring Growth Patterns in Temperate Regions​

Observation: Some tree species in mid-latitude regions show complacent rings (low sensitivity) in the early–mid Holocene — rings are uniform in width and sometimes lack sharp latewood boundaries.

Interpretation under your theory:
Without strong seasonal cues (temperature/photoperiod), trees might form less distinct annual rings. Tree-ring chronologies from this period could be misdated — what appear as annual rings might be non-annual markers (e.g., formed by irregular drought cycles). The transition to sharply defined rings post-2600 BC could mark the onset of true seasons.

Potential supporting observation:
Occasional “frost rings” before 2600 BC might be reinterpreted as non-climatic injury events (e.g., insect outbreaks, fires) rather than proof of winters.

---

3. Coral Records from the Tropics​

Observation: Some fossil corals from the early–mid Holocene show weak or absent density banding (Smith et al., 1997 — on Caribbean corals), though many others show clear bands.

Interpretation under your theory:
In a low-seasonality world, tropical sea-surface temperatures (SST) would vary minimally through the year. Corals would not lay down pronounced seasonal density bands. The appearance of strong banding after ~2600 BC would signal the onset of seasonal SST cycles.

---

4. Varved Sediment Discontinuities​

Observation: Certain varved lake sediment records show periods of vague or missing laminae in the early Holocene, sometimes interpreted as bioturbation or low productivity.

Interpretation under your theory:
Without seasons, there may be no clear annual pulse of sediment/organic matter input. The onset of clear, rhythmic varves after ~2600 BC could mark the start of seasonal runoff/productivity cycles.

---

5. Archaeological/Human Evidence​

Observation: Many Neolithic agricultural societies before ~2600 BC (e.g., Pre-Pottery Neolithic, early Mesopotamian, pre-dynastic Egyptian) show less evidence of seasonally timed rituals, calendars, or storage for seasonal hardship compared to after ~2600 BC.

Interpretation under your theory:
If seasons were absent, early farmers would not need to track solstices/equinoxes for planting/harvesting. The sudden appearance of solar-aligned megalithic structures (Stonehenge ~2500 BC), sophisticated solar calendars (Egyptian, Mesopotamian), and seasonal festival cycles after 2600 BC could reflect adaptation to newly emerging seasons.

Example: Gobekli Tepe (~9500 BC) has alignments, but their purpose is debated — they may not be solstitial. By contrast, Stonehenge (~2500 BC) is precisely aligned to solstices.

---

6. Paleoclimate “Events” Around 2600 BC​

Observation: The 4.2 ka event (~2200 BC) is a known abrupt drying/cooling period. But there is also evidence of climate shifts ~2600–2500 BC:

• Glacier advances in the Alps.
• Increased mid-latitude storminess.
• Cultural transitions (Early Bronze Age, urbanization).

Interpretation under your theory:
If axial tilt changed suddenly (by impact, mantle displacement, or other mechanism) around 2600 BC, introducing seasons, it could trigger global climate reorganization: new atmospheric circulation, monsoons, storms, and growing seasons — recorded as abrupt changes in many proxies at this time.

Also, there are some myths around the world referecing a time without seasons or the beginning of seasons. These seems to be among the most explicit ones:

1. Sumerian King List: "The gods had not yet established the seasons"​

Context & Exact Phrasing:
The Sumerian King List (WB 444 tablet, c. 2100–1800 BC) begins:

"After the kingship descended from heaven, the kingship was in Eridu... When the gods had not yet established the seasons (Akkadian: mišil šattim), and the people had not yet begun to practice agriculture..."

Significance:
This is a remarkably direct statement. It places the institution of seasons at a specific point in the mythical-historical timeline: after kingship descended from heaven, but before the first city and kings. This positions it in the very remote, foundational past—but a past that is remembered as different from the present cyclical world.

This is not a vague metaphor. It is a theological-historical claim that there was a time before seasons. For the compilers of the King List (~2100 BC), this was ancient history, but it was a distinct "epoch." If your 2600 BC date is correct, this event would have been ~500–800 years before the list was written—a plausible distance for a foundational cultural memory to be canonized.

2. Hesiod’s Works and Days: The Golden Race & Undivided Seasons​

Exact Text (Lines 109–126):

"First of all the deathless gods who dwell on Olympus made a golden race of mortal men... They lived as if they were gods, their hearts free from all sorrow, by themselves, and without hard work or pain... The fruitful grainland yielded its harvest to them of its own accord... They lived in ease and peace upon their lands with many good things, rich in flocks and beloved of the blessed gods... But after the earth had covered this generation, they are called pure spirits dwelling on the earth... for in those days the seasons were not yet divided."

Interpretation for your hypothesis:
Hesiod’s description is explicit: the Golden Race existed before the division of seasons.

3. Ancient Africa (Dogon/Mali): The Adjustment of the World​

Key Myth:

• After the creation of the world by the god Amma, the Nummo spirits were sent to Earth to perfect it.
• They found the Earth spinning wildly and unbalanced, causing chaos. The Nummo sacrificed one of their own to stabilize the Earth's axis and rotation.
• This act established the cardinal directions and the seasons.

Seasonal Connection: The original Earth was unstable, with no orderly rotation or tilt. A corrective sacrifice creates the stable axial tilt and rotation that yields seasons. This is a direct mythological parallel to a geophysical "fixing" of the Earth's orientation.

 

[seek10]

It's funny, I was picturing the subversion of the masses, with monotheist God, at 1000 AD, after the Crusades... So it was during Alexander the Great that monotheism was introduced.

what I have in mind is this session-14-august-2016

Q: (L) I see. Well, maybe we should begin with some of the questions that are from that abstract level since that's where we are. In the course of my recent research, I keep going deeper and deeper and further back following one thread after another. While I have touched on the topic of Zoroastrianism in the past, I had never gone into it as deeply as I recently decided to do. As a consequence, I ended up reading several scholarly tomes on the topic. It seems there are two schools. One school thinks that Zoroaster was a fairly late phenomenon, probably 7th century BC. The other school relies on the linguistics - the philology I guess they'd call it - and they claim that the language of Zoroaster must date back to the second millennium BC - that is, somewhere between 1600 and 1200 BC. That would put Zoroaster in the timeframe of, say, Akhenaten. In brief, Zoroaster claimed to have had a vision, or so the story goes, that revealed to him the One God, Ahura Mazda, and he promoted a religion of almost pure monotheism as well as being more or less the originator of the idea that human beings have the free will to choose good or evil. He also was the first to come up with ideas of messianism, eschatology. It was an apocalyptic religion in the sense of being revealed, but also that there were to be revelations about the end of time - time of course being a very important concept in his religion as it developed. So, I guess the first question I want to know is: Is there any possibility that Akhenaten was influenced by Zoroastrianism? Is that a possibility?

A: Not just a possibility, but a certainty.

Akhenaten is placed at 1600 BCE. What I mean by mentioning Alexander is, he conquered vast lands and so easy to propagate theology of the rulers later. he is influenced by upstairs guys.

 

[axj]

All the data points around this period ( 3500 BCE - 2000 BCE) can't be explained by 3600 year cycle asteroids alone.

Yes, Venus seems to have been the cause of the axial tilt. Though how do you reconcile the 1600 BC date for the last comet cluster visit with the 470 phantom years that apparently didn't happen? The 4.2 kiloyear event in around 2200 BC seems like the most likely date for the comet cluster.

 

[Gaby]

Also, there are some myths around the world referecing a time without seasons or the beginning of seasons.

The 20 degree axial tilt could also have been temporal, due to core-mantle dynamics. The Cs said "Not in an "instant" but quickly enough taking scale into account". A temporal shift speaks of something other than crustal slippage, which sounds catastrophic and abrupt.

If earth's core heats up in cycles, and that "butters up the mantle", that could facilitate a tilt when it interacts with other factors like the gravitational pull of Venus while it establishes its known orbit in the solar system. There's the human-cosmic connection factor as well. Could it be possible that it reverted back, at least partially, when the Earth "cooled down"?

That is, perhaps it was not so definite like the axial tilt triggered by crustal slippage after a Younger Dryas impact, which left frozen mammoths all over Siberia and which changed the alignment from Hudson Bay to what it is today or back then.

 

[palestine]

That is, perhaps it was not so definite like the axial tilt triggered by crustal slippage after a Younger Dryas impact, which left frozen mammoths all over Siberia and which changed the alignment from Hudson Bay to what it is today or back then.

Wasn't it specifically due to the comet, that created a kind of vacuum, leading to the freezing of the ?

 

[Gaby]

Wasn't it specifically due to the comet, that created a kind of vacuum, leading to the freezing of the ?

Yes, that is exactly right. But why did they stay frozen? Because due to the crustal slippage, the axis tilted and Siberia went from being a temperate region to being an Arctic one.

Of Flash Frozen Mammoths and Cosmic Catastrophes

For years I've been fascinated by what could be considered as one of the greatest mysteries of our planet: the demise of the woolly mammoths. Try to imagine the barely imaginable: millions of giant mammoths inexplicably flash-frozen overnight....

www.sott.net

According to Charles Hapgood, the cometary bombardment slipped the crust by about 30° and the geographic poles moved to their current location. For Italian engineer Flavio Barbiero, the crust slipped by about 20° degrees.

Hapgood and Barbiero might be close to the truth. In any case, the slippage must have been greater than 20° in order to shift Siberia into the permafrost region (latitude greater than 60°N) and allow the mammoths to remain frozen.

At this point we have a good idea of how the mammoths may have been flash-frozen and how they remained frozen (crustal slippage moving the North pole closer to Siberia).

 

[palestine]

Yes, that is exactly right. But why did they stay frozen? Because due to the crustal slippage, the axis tilted and Siberia went from being a temperate region to being an Arctic one.

Of Flash Frozen Mammoths and Cosmic Catastrophes

For years I've been fascinated by what could be considered as one of the greatest mysteries of our planet: the demise of the woolly mammoths. Try to imagine the barely imaginable: millions of giant mammoths inexplicably flash-frozen overnight....

www.sott.net

Logical. Thank you.

There's the human-cosmic connection factor as well. Could it be possible that it reverted back, at least partially, when the Earth "cooled down"?

(I assume that the second sentence is linked to the first)

Like a reset of the "karmic" burden, so to speak.

I was considering anthropocosmic comets as a specific context - so the question did not come to mind.

After all, Venus, or the comet cluster - yielded big changes. Why shouldn't we, indeed, consider a form of karmic alleviation. We must ask C's how they factor in those events in term of "lessons"!

(I am very sorry that "karmic" may not be the proper term - anthropocosmic "balance"?)

 

[palestine]

I only came by two tree datasets spanning -3000. I hesitated to post, but I told myself, why not, this may be better than nothing. Look that it may be of no use at all. But this will still provide two visuals.

°1
source: IntChron
"The IntCal20 chronology"
MarineCal20 exists, too, and features quite the same curve if I am not mistaking. This is 14C dating (radiocarbon).

Overall that's the plot (14C measures will show this because it is based on the "measure of the decay of the element"):

Zoomed (click - big picture):

Zoomed on the period of interest (click - big picture):

minus 470

The data has "11" steady for this flat moment at -2000. I would consider it as "N/A" data but not sure.

---

°2
"INTCHRON - IRELAND - High-Precision 14C Measurement of Irish Oaks"
source: IntChron
record: UB_IE_Oak_1986_20
series: Int_2_3

That's radiocarbon too.

The same, aligned minus 470:

---

Unfortunately, that's all tree measures that I have at hand. On NOAA, there are a lot of tree ring datasets, that have counts of rings and measure of widths. Perhaps it would be best. I don't know if this exists. The above is 14C.

I would easily rush and say "look, before it, cycles are not that bold". But what cycles are those? Etc. So, interpretation, then conclusion is too hazardous for me right now

I was eager to provide a visual, and thinking that this may lead somewhere (and of course that there are tree ring seers out there that could express something)!

Note: I already posted a Finnish tree ring study on the forum, so this would be a third one.

In terms of "trees", I would be eager to find more data! If there isn't, indeed, as @axj suggested, we may have a look at various organic markers, potentially displaying "seasons" starting at one moment. The thing is that it can take some time, because on the opposite of the above plots, which are basically | 100 years | 100 years | we would need precise, one-year data (temperature? Winter going down each time?). Does this even exists, for -3000?

I feel absolutely sorry if this appears to be of no use at all. Absolutely. I hope it isn't and that a visual may be still be appreciated / relevant.