4D STO principles

[Wandering Star]

It is simply an example to help understand selfish conscious sacrifice.

 

[Vajra91]

It is possible that conscious suffering is also something for STS progression in 3D.

To sacrifice oneself to achieve a selfish goal.

Hmm ok, I think I understand the concept you're talking about..

In the Work we understand conscious suffering as a struggle against one's mechanical nature, against selfishness and internal considering, and that's the path towards STO, towards BEing, right?

But, if a person entrenched in STS were to make temporary sacrifices, go against it's most basic, simple and mechanical nature, desires and reactions in order to obtain even more "power" eventually (as in your example, a marriage of convenience between a young self serving person and a powerful, older person they dislike), with very clear intent to serve the self, would that be a way to basically "move up the food chain"? If that could be considered a form of "conscious suffering", then that would make the concept a rather universal tool, a way to possibly progress on either path.

But I'm not sure that can be called conscious suffering, it seems to me like that has a very precise meaning. In this case one would not be struggling against internal considering and wishful thinking and towards objectivity, quite the opposite. Even the struggle against base mechanical reactions (in the example, physical and/or emotional repulsion) would only be surface level, it would still be a deliberate choice of non-BEing, a pursue of greater selfish desires using another as a tool. I think the concept of conscious suffering cannot be separated from the concept of true, deep sacrifice. What I'm sensing in a scenario like that is quite the opposite.

So to me that seems like a way to entrench oneself in STS, yes, but I don't think it can be called conscious suffering. Any similarities seem to me as only present on a surface level. OSIT/FWIW

 

[Seato]

just speculating, but living in a 3D STS reality doesn't mean that STO bits cease to exist, or manifest in our reality, I mean we have the C's a 6D STO manifestation. It may remain a self serving notion but choosing not to deceive because one chooses to do so, because one wants to, is different than doing so because one has to in order to get to STO candidacy.

This brings to mind a passage talking about the difficulty of self improvement in evil realms of the afterlife relative to Earth from ‘The Life Beyond the Veil’ by Rev. G. Vale Owen.

“For it is more difficult, because the influences around those in the darkness here are much more evil than the influences on earth, where good influences are ever mingling with the bad.”

By better understanding STS control and manipulation the more able we are to choose to be STO. Then we can begin to understand what actions may take us towards this goal. The more aware we become the more we empower ourselves to make decisions whilst a STS reality will forever try and limit our awareness so long as it can influence us.

I'm really not sure.. But thinking about it, one could argue that the reason conscious suffering is so necessary for us is because we are STS in an STS realm, which very much strives to limit our awareness, no?

I agree that the STS nature of our reality is a key factor in the suffering so often required to advance here.
Awareness can mitigate suffering to some degree but in a STS environment you will be attacked at any opportunity. The strength of most people under constant draining cannot last forever. To be able to stand against this and endure you may need to rely on the aide of others not only higher beings and selves but those on 3D such as through networking whereby people can come together and unify to share awareness, grow and support one another to form a structure than can hold its own against the STS influences. It appears that to struggle, against STS domination naturally facilitates the development of STO orientated behaviours and networks even if success is not guaranteed and motivation differs from true STO beings.

Stephen R. Covey in part of ‘The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People’ encourages a husband in a troubled relationship to work to love his wife. The husband though he desires to repair his relationship laments he does not feel love towards her. Covey encourages him to start by carrying out simple expressions of love to his wife in his everyday life and eventually in doing so he may come to love her once more.
In the same way we do not yet truly know how to think as STO beings, but we can understand partly how they would act in a given situation and by mimicking this behaviour one day our thinking may shift to match our actions.

 

[axj]

In the same way we do not yet truly know how to think as STO beings, but we can understand partly how they would act in a given situation and by mimicking this behaviour one day our thinking may shift to match our actions.

I think that rather than mimicking what we think of as STO behavior, what is necessary is to deprogram ourselves (mental beliefs, emotional healing, physical detox) and to establish a more conscious connection to the core of our being through regular meditation.

The more we live and act from that authentic place of who we really are at our core (instead living on autopilot and 'asleep' in dissociation), the more we naturally act in STO ways.

 

[Ricardo]

Not only meditation ( important though it is ) , positive " shocks " in general , could be music , prayer , poetry ... anything that helps the moving center align to a more properly positively balanced disposition , gravity binds everything "after all " ( imo /blah ) , re meditation , early 2024 started trying out mudras , did stop back then early on , but even what little i did was enough to know there's more there to learn ( ie) ,

 

[Fluffy]

Not only meditation ( important though it is ) , positive " shocks " in general , could be music , prayer , poetry ... anything that helps the moving center align to a more properly positively balanced disposition , gravity binds everything "after all " ( imo /blah ) , re meditation , early 2024 started trying out mudras , did stop back then early on , but even what little i did was enough to know there's more there to learn ( ie) ,

I will add that empathy and compassion have a crucial role of moving someone more towards an STO alignment. Willingly spending time in contemplation about why someone else is doing something, what they might be feeling and experiencing, how that affects their life, the people around them and their progression as a spiritual being. To do that we need knowledge and awareness which in either orientation STS or STO will eventually move one into higher states of being, though failing in STS is the desire to care and feel pain for another when considering how this or that will affect them.

 

[Menna]

Hmm ok, I think I understand the concept you're talking about..

In the Work we understand conscious suffering as a struggle against one's mechanical nature, against selfishness and internal considering, and that's the path towards STO, towards BEing, right?

But, if a person entrenched in STS were to make temporary sacrifices, go against it's most basic, simple and mechanical nature, desires and reactions in order to obtain even more "power" eventually (as in your example, a marriage of convenience between a young self serving person and a powerful, older person they dislike), with very clear intent to serve the self, would that be a way to basically "move up the food chain"? If that could be considered a form of "conscious suffering", then that would make the concept a rather universal tool, a way to possibly progress on either path.

But I'm not sure that can be called conscious suffering, it seems to me like that has a very precise meaning. In this case one would not be struggling against internal considering and wishful thinking and towards objectivity, quite the opposite. Even the struggle against base mechanical reactions (in the example, physical and/or emotional repulsion) would only be surface level, it would still be a deliberate choice of non-BEing, a pursue of greater selfish desires using another as a tool. I think the concept of conscious suffering cannot be separated from the concept of true, deep sacrifice. What I'm sensing in a scenario like that is quite the opposite.

So to me that seems like a way to entrench oneself in STS, yes, but I don't think it can be called conscious suffering. Any similarities seem to me as only present on a surface level. OSIT/FWIW

In The Work the “activities” or “practices” are what they are tools to gain knowledge/wisdom the individual human each have their own aim or a goal… If the goal is to gain power to lean more toward STS then that is the individual free will choice.

The practice and procedures of The Work remain the same how the knowledge/power gained during these practices are used is up to the individual.

If you learn Karate to get into fights and cause harm well Karate is still Karate just like The Work is The Work… The goal or aim or how it is used is on the individual

 

[Menna]

This brings to mind a passage talking about the difficulty of self improvement in evil realms of the afterlife relative to Earth from ‘The Life Beyond the Veil’ by Rev. G. Vale Owen.


By better understanding STS control and manipulation the more able we are to choose to be STO. Then we can begin to understand what actions may take us towards this goal. The more aware we become the more we empower ourselves to make decisions whilst a STS reality will forever try and limit our awareness so long as it can influence us.


I agree that the STS nature of our reality is a key factor in the suffering so often required to advance here.
Awareness can mitigate suffering to some degree but in a STS environment you will be attacked at any opportunity. The strength of most people under constant draining cannot last forever. To be able to stand against this and endure you may need to rely on the aide of others not only higher beings and selves but those on 3D such as through networking whereby people can come together and unify to share awareness, grow and support one another to form a structure than can hold its own against the STS influences. It appears that to struggle, against STS domination naturally facilitates the development of STO orientated behaviours and networks even if success is not guaranteed and motivation differs from true STO beings.

Stephen R. Covey in part of ‘The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People’ encourages a husband in a troubled relationship to work to love his wife. The husband though he desires to repair his relationship laments he does not feel love towards her. Covey encourages him to start by carrying out simple expressions of love to his wife in his everyday life and eventually in doing so he may come to love her once more.
In the same way we do not yet truly know how to think as STO beings, but we can understand partly how they would act in a given situation and by mimicking this behaviour one day our thinking may shift to match our actions.

We don’t know what a 4th grader knows and we won’t until we complete 4th grade but while we are in 3rd grade to get to 4th grade we must learn todays lesson and then the next and the next and gain wisdom and maturity during the process NOT try and ACT like a 4th grader just complete the work infront of us as this reality puts things infront of us to learn and become… not to mimic or act

 

[Seato]

I think that deprogramming oneself and seeking to increase our connection with our higher self would fall under the behavior of those seeking service to others. If we commit to serving others we have a responsibility to fight against the negative forces that seek to restrain and diminish our capacity to do so.
As 3D beings our actions will always be driven more from self serving than serving others. But that does not mean we should not commit to trying to be of service to others and help ourselves be in a position to do so.

We don’t know what a 4th grader knows and we won’t until we complete 4th grade but while we are in 3rd grade to get to 4th grade we must learn todays lesson and then the next and the next and gain wisdom and maturity during the process NOT try and ACT like a 4th grader just complete the work infront of us as this reality puts things infront of us to learn and become… not to mimic or act

I apologise if I have been unclear in my phrasing. By 'given situation' I meant what a STO being would do in our situation in 3D. Not trying to imagine ourselves as 4D STO seeding the 3rd density universe or any other of their activities.
I suppose even this is a contradiction since if we did exactly this in thought and action we might poof straight to 4D. But I meant it in the sense of how people of ask themselves “what would Jesus do?” or perhaps more aptly “what would Caesar do?”. Or maybe what does your higher self, center guide you to do? If you nurture your connection to the divine through meditation and the like. Since the process of development in this situation would be by working and increasingly being in accordance with your true self and nature.

A: No. It is like this: After you have completed all your lessons in "third grade," where do you go?

Q: (L) So, it is a question of...

A: Answer, please.

Q: (L) You go to fourth grade.

A: Okay, now, do you have to already be in 4th grade in order to be allowed to go there? Answer.

Q: (L) No. But you have to know all the 3rd density things...

A: Yes. More apropos: you have to have learned all of the lessons.

Q: (L) What kind of lessons are we talking about here?

A: Karmic and simple understandings.

Dwelling too much on 4D STO principles perhaps isn’t necessary for our life lessons around karmic and simple understandings. But acting in accordance with 4D STO principles such as networking and mental blocking can assist our development and understanding.

A: Always "Network". Networking is 4th Density STO concept seeping into 3rd density with upcoming realm border crossing.

Q: (DM) Networking is the way to get things done from 3rd level into 4th level?

A: Coming from 4th level into 3rd because of influence of wave.

It sounds here a bit like a window of opportunity where such concepts may partly manifest in 3D. This brings to mind Gurdjieff’s Fourth way that comes and goes, existing for the needs of the work.

 

[Menna]

I think that deprogramming oneself and seeking to increase our connection with our higher self would fall under the behavior of those seeking service to others. If we commit to serving others we have a responsibility to fight against the negative forces that seek to restrain and diminish our capacity to do so.
As 3D beings our actions will always be driven more from self serving than serving others. But that does not mean we should not commit to trying to be of service to others and help ourselves be in a position to do so.

I apologise if I have been unclear in my phrasing. By 'given situation' I meant what a STO being would do in our situation in 3D. Not trying to imagine ourselves as 4D STO seeding the 3rd density universe or any other of their activities.
I suppose even this is a contradiction since if we did exactly this in thought and action we might poof straight to 4D. But I meant it in the sense of how people of ask themselves “what would Jesus do?” or perhaps more aptly “what would Caesar do?”. Or maybe what does your higher self, center guide you to do? If you nurture your connection to the divine through meditation and the like. Since the process of development in this situation would be by working and increasingly being in accordance with your true self and nature.

Dwelling too much on 4D STO principles perhaps isn’t necessary for our life lessons around karmic and simple understandings. But acting in accordance with 4D STO principles such as networking and mental blocking can assist our development and understanding.

It sounds here a bit like a window of opportunity where such concepts may partly manifest in 3D. This brings to mind Gurdjieff’s Fourth way that comes and goes, existing for the needs of the work.

I understand what you are saying as far as trying to IMAGINE what a STO being would do but again you get there one lesson at a time

 

[genero81]

"To bear in mind constantly that all of this has happed before. And will happen again- the same plot from beginning to end, the identical staging. Produce them in your mind, as you know them from experience or from history: the court of Hadrian, of Antoninus. The courts of Philip, Alexander, Croesus. All just the same. Only the people different." Marcus Aurelius

That passage really stood out for me. It seems to me perspective is key. And true knowledge and awareness is essential to proper perspective. Who you are, and what you see are intertwined. We must first become aware of the futility of our STS-ness. Only then will the other path begin to emerge as a path that calls to us. OSIT

 

[Vajra91]

In The Work the “activities” or “practices” are what they are tools to gain knowledge/wisdom the individual human each have their own aim or a goal… If the goal is to gain power to lean more toward STS then that is the individual free will choice.

The practice and procedures of The Work remain the same how the knowledge/power gained during these practices are used is up to the individual.

If you learn Karate to get into fights and cause harm well Karate is still Karate just like The Work is The Work… The goal or aim or how it is used is on the individual

Insofar as The Work being a tool for Crystallization, for creating something permanent, gaining the knoledge to start making an actual choice, one way or another, sure, I can understand that, in theory.

I guess I'm finding it difficult to really understand, to internalize, how something rooted in the search for objectivity and truth like the work and conscious suffering could be used as a tool to grow in service to the self, as it feels to me like it would naturally lead towards the opposite end of the spectrum, since STS is rooted in subjectivity and wishful thinking. But it may very well be a lack of awareness on my part

 

[Menna]

Insofar as The Work being a tool for Crystallization, for creating something permanent, gaining the knoledge to start making an actual choice, one way or another, sure, I can understand that, in theory.

I guess I'm finding it difficult to really understand, to internalize, how something rooted in the search for objectivity and truth like the work and conscious suffering could be used as a tool to grow in service to the self, as it feels to me like it would naturally lead towards the opposite end of the spectrum, since STS is rooted in subjectivity and wishful thinking. But it may very well be a lack of awareness on my part

It’s not a lack of awareness per se it’s a lack of experience mixed with process/reality which equals Wisdom/awareness. A few points below;

1) A person could have the best tool and use it but it’s that persons skill/decision making/will/intent… that dictates the results

2) The Work and crystallization/perminant is not the work by itself it’s the result of the work just like the diploma is not the university it’s a result of Work over 4 or whatever amount of years what you do inbetween day 1 and each day to graduation is up to you.

3) As you learn about yourself and reality you can relate to others and how others feel and think in certain life situations thus you can use this information about humans and life in any way you choose along your way to permanency you can abuse, manipulate, confuse another or the opposite.

4) The Work takes years and years to get a graspe of and even longer to “accomplish” during these decades somone in the work could develop different wants, passions and certain things can happen to the body and mind that changes a person thus the person that started the work with a certain intent changes during The Work

5) In my experience there is a tipping point where you understand STS is just not worth it and there is no going back. For examples the Government/CIA studied consciousness and researched it as its people got to know and evolved it’s consciousness they become of little use to the Government/CIA because they no longer wanted or were capable of certain negativity/STS

 

[Cordillera]

I saw this talk by Chilean philosopher Gastón Soublette on "Modern Spirituality from a Christian Perspective." In this talk, he speaks of the New Testament Beatitudes as the "Kingdom Code," as opposed to the Ten Commandments, which he calls the "Covenant Code."

By calling the Beatitudes the "Kingdom Code," I linked to this thread on the principles of 4D STO, because the Kingdom of Heaven can be interpreted as the 4D STO reality.

Gastón Soublette also suggests that the Beatitudes can be read in parallel with the Ten Commandments.

I hope you have a chance to listen to the talk (or read the translation). This man possesses great spiritual depth.

So, I would like to suggest adding the Beatitudes to the 4D SAD principles, which can be perfectly applied by 3D SAD candidates:

3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4 "Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

5 "Blessed are the humble, for they shall inherit the earth.

6 "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

7 "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

8 "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God.

10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 "Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you for My sake.