A depressing (objective ?) vision of the after-life

Perhaps gaining some perspective and distance would be of some help and would alleviate depression. All this HEAVY stuff overwhelms one upon contact, but after some time knowledge settles within an individual and merges, widening one's understanding. From where does depression come? Can it be that it comes from fear? And, if from fear - then fear of what? Why should we fear the cycles of existence (3D only or 3D/5D), if we have been taking part in it for a long, long time (or in many many instances, to exclude this unfortunate illusion "time")?

Is there really ANYTHING we haven't done before? Is there any horror we haven't already been through? How many times have we died? How many times we've been killed? How many times have we suffered? And yet - WE ARE STILL HERE WE EXIST, no matter what, so what could possibly threaten us? How can anyone kill immortal being?

No matter how clever traps hyperdimensional lords conceive for us, we LIVE. And, we are learning. Help is on its way? Help is ALREADY here, in this world, in this very moment. We gather here, share our experiences and knowledge. We learn. This is no reason to grieve, it's a reason to rejoice! Learning is fun - let's not fear, let's move on.
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That pretty much nailed it for me. Bless all of you. :)
 
EQ I can really taste the salt on your stories....

Q: How did you pulverized magnet? To reduce it just to smaller pieces (using a hammer?), or to reduce it to dust (How?)?

Q: "and noticed that everyone with whom I interacted was affected by these without realizing it." -Why you were able to realize of this? Could you please elaborate a bit more on the how? Were you not able/interested to make concient of this to any other person?

Q: During the time of this episode, were you reading some other material than Necronomicon?
 
Cricket said:
Q: How did you pulverized magnet? To reduce it just to smaller pieces (using a hammer?), or to reduce it to dust (How?)?
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A: My friend had a small workshop in his apartment, being an artist. I used a grinding wheel, and placed the magnet against it as it rotated rapidly. The dust particles of the magnet clung to the metallic wheel and then I scraped them off. This resulted in a mine magnet powder.

Cricket said:
Q: "and noticed that everyone with whom I interacted was affected by these without realizing it." -Why you were able to realize of this? Could you please elaborate a bit more on the how? Were you not able/interested to make concient of this to any other person?
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A: Except for my friend who was my witness, and experiencing much of the same thing, anyone else would deny what was going on. The same occured with those other cases coming to my attention. The fact that they wanted to communicate what was happening to them, and nobody would believe them was what drove them to breakdown. I realized that trying to get anyone else to see things from my point of view was futile, and that acceptance saved me from alot of anguish so I could focus on other avenues of solution.

Why was I able to realize this? Because I (along with my friend) was the target. Some people can be directly possessed and interpret it as just how they feel and even deny that they are acting psychopathically, even though to an outside observer the irrationality of their behaviour would be obvious. On another level it seemed people were all conspiring against me. Specifically, it seemed reality split in two, an innocent and a guilty version superimposed on each other.

I knew myself to be thinking clearly and not hallucinating here. Yet, when some force tries to convince you you are crazy, sometimes the only way is to just DO something and validate yourself by the end of the doing. Until then you may have to just suspend belief even regarding your own sanity. Personally, I wasn't going to submit to the presentation unless I deteriorated so much that I couldn't admit otherwise. Until then, I would fight it in any way I could, even paradoxically as I did. And I did come out better for it.

So some can be possessed and in so doing have this irrational combination of what is possessing them and their surface personality that makes them seem normal even to themselves. And others are not so accepting of possession, and question what they feel to be an infiltration. Their will, then, must be broken down through isolation and despair. Basically the energies of hatred, despair and basic psychic attack (similar to a haunting, but far more calculating), are vibrated at you until you break. Then whatever potential you have is hijacked by used, as Realmhiker in another thread described through her dream, but in this case more directly.

While you are locked in your own mind in terror and confusion, others live your life potential in ways you never would. That is how they feed on others to enhance their power. So in these cases, the victim's reality is manipulated through others who act as conduits, and directly through psychic and sometimes physical stress.

Since I ignored what I considered to be futile responses, I focused on the problem in my radical way (meditating on a solution and being given one, in fact) before the symptoms became overwhelming, as they had in other cases coming to my attention.

Cricket said:
Q: During the time of this episode, were you reading some other material than Necronomicon?
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A:All I could do was read and meditate, so yes I read a lot about ancient history, shamanic traditions, the occult, Taoist yoga and the meridian systems of the body, etc. In addition, I still kept running into self-proclaimed magicians, occultists, new age healers etc, who I saw were eyeing me as if waiting for me to die at any moment (some where even surprised to see me still up and about and speaking rationally, and kept asking about my health or if I was having strange experiences lately). I played dumb because I did not want to give them references to guage my experience. Instead I asked them questions, and kept my will focused.
 
I wish to thank EsoQuest and j0da for their answers to my inquiries and let you know my resolve has been strengthened exponentially as a result. The "Work" is the MOST important thing in all our lives right now and to help others in their quest when and where we can brings us that much more into resonance with STO.
 
EsoQuest, thank you very much for your stories and answers and insigths you have been provoding. I add my thanks to you and j0da to what tschai writes, but i include him too.
You have been crarifying and explaining things with such a resonance, the message reaches and sinks deep here...
 
Well, as has been mentioned, according to the C's, the 'journey' from 3D to 5D occurs through an incorruptable conduit - nothing and no one can interfere, so there is no danger of being "caught by a group" or 'becoming moon food right after you expire". Apparently, it is the actual living of life that provides 'food for the moon' - not something that might occur to you as you move from this density to 5th density.

As far as this concept is concerned...
MaskedAvatar said:
You do realize that if you follow the espoused beliefs and teachings of G. to the letter, including his cosmology and your place on the ray of creation as a homo sapiens, that you are working on your being to conserve energy so that you don't tend to become moon-food right after you expire?
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I think it is important to remember to take G's teachings as information to be considered, tested, analyzed and developed, but 'following beliefs to the letter' is not really the best way to go about things, as far as developing one's own perspicacity is concerned. The information generously provided by the esteemed Mr. Gurdjieff is extremely valuable as a tool for awakening and learning to develop one's own potential, but the idea of following what we understand of it now 'to the letter' would probably frustrate him to no end. The point is to develop one's own mind - and all that entails - and a dogmatic interpretation works directly against that goal. As in all things, the devil is indeed in the details, and an open minded questioning of all that you encounter is paramount to gaining the kind of knowledge that may lift you above the level of automatic food. As far as the instant in which we travel from 3D to 5D, it seems as if that is the very least of our worries, because in that transition, according to the information the C's have provided, we are secure.
 
* 'following beliefs to the letter' is not really the best way to go about things, as far as developing one's own perspicacity is concerned. *

Exactly. At some point in time in any human pursuit, the paved road will end and perspicacity will suddenly give way to a primordial "mumbo jumbo" soup.
 
MaskedAvatar said:
Exactly. At some point in time in any human pursuit, the paved road will end and perspicacity will suddenly give way to a primordial "mumbo jumbo" soup.
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Not necessarily. The difficulty with examing any material such as Gurdjieff's is that he had to invent terminology to describe something that was not really part of normal discourse at the time. "Food for the moon," as Anart points out, is very likely a metaphor for the idea that 4 D critters may very well "feed" on the energy of suffering. Then, of course, there is the idea that following the STS pathway leads to contraction and self-recoil which can result, ultimately, in "regeneration as primal matter." Both of these concepts can be derived from "food for the moon."

C's said:
Q: We have recently been working with some material from Boris Mouravieff. We can see many relationships. I would like to ask about some of his political views, his ideas about creating some elite corps to help the world graduate to what he calls the cycle of the Holy Spirit. How accurate are those views of Mouravieff?

A: Mouravieff, like many who have protected and passed on the "tradition" are merely carriers and not interpreters of the capacity of a Master. The True Master understands the nature of the "worlds" in terms of real, Hyperdimensional Interpenetration. Thus Mouraveiff and others misunderstand and misinterpret, thinking in 3rd density Hierarchical terms which simply do not apply.
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Mouravieff did not grok this, but I think that Gurdjieff did. However, he was constrained by the understanding of people in general in the time in which he lived not to mention the available concepts.
 
regarding the original thread has anyone read 'Shopping For Spirit'? See

http://www.equilibra.uk.com/shop1.shtml

This theory speaks of the Astral Lords and their reincarnation system which keeps people in chains. David Icke's latest book "Infinite Love is the only Truth"... also says the same thing about where we go after death, to another illuminati controlled delusion. Perhaps this book is where it all comes from, yet the writer of Shopping for Spirit, Steve Gamble, appears to be passing it off as his own theory.

This is another group that I believe is cointelpro based, or may be simply jumping on a bandwaggon Equilbra owner writer Steve Gamble is another example of a would be guru who cannot take any constructive critcism. A waste of my time reading it all, the masses of contradictions.

See http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=1343

for another person group of this ilk.
 
As regards to the subject of this thread, I don't know if it's mumbo jumbo but it's quite pessimistic. And the author himself admits that the entities who gave him such information, and who called themselves "the Invisible College", don't know what there's beyond the astral plane, or even if there's something :/
What is probably true though is the fact that a lot of dead people are caught in the astral plane, in egregors and thought-forms, so if there's really a conduit we can take after death and which ensures we are secure, maybe some people just don't see it cause they're blinded by their beliefs, or they just don't want to reincarnate and deliberately don't take the conduit. If everybody went to 5D after death there wouldn't be so many people hanging in the astral plane. Those who take the conduit might be people who are mature enough spiritually to contemplate their last life objectivally and decide what to do next.
 
Prayers for Rain, nice thread! I am interested in this Invisible College - a channeled reading provided by Kyle Griffith in "War in Heaven".

However, this thread had its own spiraling into oblivion around post #10, so let's bring it back! In other words... BUMP!


The Invisible College said:
"Q. Please summarize what you want me to tell people that will increase their chances for survival.

A. Everyone who understands and accepts the basic information in this book should make a conscious effort to develop his or her psychic powers during life. It's a basic survival skill that every human being needs to know, and the rudiments of it are not that hard to learn. The majority of occult and New Age groups are capable of teaching a person enough basic psychic skills to attract the attention of friendly spirits on the astral plane after death. If such a group isn't available, people can learn such skills by working with almost anyone who already possesses them, just using trial and error. However, we want to make it clear that the process requires real effort, applied regularly over several years.

We also have another word of caution for people who have accepted the information in WAR IN HEAVEN as true, but are not serious occultists with highly developed psychic powers. They should read accounts of point-of-death experiences and learn to recognize the common tricks that the Theocrats use to enslave the unwary after death.

Q. Yes. I've read all those stories about the dying person being met by spirits who claim to be deceased relatives or friends, deities or messengers of deities, there to welcome him or her to the afterlife. I suspect that many people who believe the breakthrough information while living may suddenly forget it when confronted after death with the "shade of their beloved mother, come to welcome them to heaven." In other words, "Seeing is believing." A direct emotional confrontation of this type might have more weight than any rational, intellectual knowledge received during life, especially to a soul who has just undergone the trauma of dying.

A. That is an accurate and vivid description. We still lose people that way every day, in spite of our best efforts.

Q. What can people do to avoid such deceptions?

A. The only sure defense is to achieve a certain degree of psychic development. The Theocrats are able to practice such tricks only if the psychic senses of the deceased person are being activated from outside by the Theocrats' telepathic transmissions. If the person's soul is actively perceiving the astral environment with its own telepathic and clairvoyant powers, it can usually perceive the true nature of the spirits forming the "greeting party." This is difficult to put into English, so let's just say they "look phony" or "have bad vibes." The closest we can come to an actual description is that some of the psychic control mechanisms that the Theocrats use to enslave other spirits on the astral plane become perceptible to anyone who psychically "reads" them actively, instead of being communicated with while remaining passive.

Q. This is one of the elements of the breakthrough information that will frighten certain readers, especially when they realize that many of their deceased relatives and friends may be slaves in Theocratic bands right now. Suppose such a person does meet his or her dead mother or some other loved one on the astral plane?

A. The important rule is: KEEP YOUR DISTANCE. DON'T LET ANY OTHER SPIRIT "TOUCH" YOU AS LONG AS YOU REMAIN ON THE ASTRAL PLANE. Free Spirits rare1y communicate telepathically. [This may refer to encounters shortly after death.] They don't approach other spirits closely, even when they assist them in reincarnating, but instead "talk them through" the process. Remember: "TALK, BUT DON'T "TOUCH."

Q. I've never seen this written down before, but it becomes obvious when pointed out. You explained earlier that the Theocrats enslave weaker souls by literally attaching themselves to them, allowing energies to flow directly as they do within human nerve tissue; but I didn't realize the full significance of this until right now.

A. Yes, it's information that can literally "save your soul." Unfortunately, it's as difficult to communicate warnings like this to Earth people as it is for parents to warn their children about child molesters. It's not hard to tell them, "Don't get into cars with strangers or accept presents from anyone you don't know," but much harder to deal with the fact that a large number of molestation cases involve close friends or family members. All we can do is repeat that it is a universal custom among non-Theocratic spirits to always keep their distance from one another. It's sad that we have to do this, but the Theocrats give us no choice.

The most important thing about this is that it requires psychic skill, not just intellectual knowledge. The more conscious control that people develop over their psychic senses and powers during this life, the better chance they have of surviving on the astral plane after death long enough to reincarnate. Disembodied spirits see by clairvoyance, communicate by telepathy, and move by telekinesis. If you don't have conscious control over these psychic powers, you may be blind, dumb, and paralyzed after death. If you're lucky, you'll discover after you reach the astral plane that your soul contains residual memories from a previous life that give you access to these powers; but it's best not to bet the life of your mortal soul on it. Learning psychic skills is a lot of work, but we strongly recommend it to everyone who makes the breakthrough.

Possessing intellectual knowledge about the nature of spiritual reality is not as essential to survival after death as having basic psychic skills; but we still recommend that you learn as much about the subject as possible, from this book and all other available sources. The more you study the facts about Theocracy, the Invisible War, and spiritual cosmology, the higher the probability that you will remember some of this information when you need it most.

The time of greatest danger on the astral plane is immediately after death, when the astral soul is still traumatized by the shock of separating from the somatic soul. Theocratic propaganda has created the myth that some deaths are "easy" and "natural," and that only sudden or violent deaths are traumatic. In reality, the snapping of the silver cord is as big a shock to the astral soul as the loss of a leg is to the body. It's true that some deaths are more traumatic than others, but none are ever "easy."

On the other hand, the worst thing people can do when they die is to refuse to admit they are dead. There's a universal myth that people can prevent death if their will to live is strong enough, so they fight the process with all their strength and courage. Our advice to people who feel they might be dying is to remain as calm as they can, concentrating all their attention on remaining conscious and alert, not on fighting to remain alive. You'll lose nothing by doing this, because in most cases there is absolutely nothing you can do by an act of conscious will to stop the physical process of death if you are indeed dying. However, vigorously fighting against the death process significantly increases the post-death trauma. to the soul, rendering it more vulnerable during the first few crucial hours on the astral plane. Q. In a number of point-of-death experience accounts, the dying person refused to touch or embrace the spirits he or she encountered, usually because of some vague feeling that it "just wasn't right" to do so. However, in other accounts, there is close contact but it has a negative effect: a painful energy exchange, often compared to an electric shock, occurs, and the person on the point of death has the sense of "returning to the body." In still other cases, the greeting spirits themselves refuse close contact and say, "Go back, your time has not yet come." How do you explain all this to make it evidence to support the concepts you're describing?

A. The important thing to remember when reading an account of a point-of-death experience is that the person relating it was never actually dead in the first place. Definitions of physical death are imprecise, but not the definition of death as perceived by spirits: detachment of the silver cord from the somatic soul. Once this happens, death is irreversible; the astral soul cannot reattach itself.

The people who have point-of-death experiences are simply close to the point where the astral soul detaches from the somatic soul, close enough to attract the attention of other spirits who get ready to receive them into the astral plane. The same physical trauma that brings the person close to death also produces a state of consciousness in which the physical mind is extremely passive and the astral mind is awake and active, allowing easy psychic communication with spirits. We should point out that only "old souls," those at a high stage of spiritual development, have such experiences.

This is why such people sometimes recoil from contact with the spirits: their psychic perception is keen enough to spot that something is wrong. However, even if this doesn't happen, close contact with the other spirits still cannot result in Theocratic enslavement. The soul of the dying person remains attached to the body and continues to receive energy from it through the silver cord. It is this energy that produces the electric shock effect if contact does occur. Of course, most Theocrats are knowledgeable enough to refuse such contact themselves, to avoid the shock. However, Theocrats vary in knowledge, so both kinds of point-of-death experience occur."
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So, although the C's mention that the transition from 3rd density to 5th Density/Contemplative plane is untamperable, it may be the case that, like the C's have said before, beings with devious intentions, belonging to a spiritual heirarchy, may pose as characters/beings/manifestations of which the perceiver has strong emotional ties. In asking for contact/acknowledgement, the perceiver would be exercising his free will in the pursuit of "making a connection" while really allowing the capture of and entrapment of its soul. I distinctly remember the C's warning that 4D STS would like to ensure the enslavement of souls as they transition to 4D, so could this be a tool in their agenda?

BTW, thanks kid mongo for the exerpt, if you're on this forum...
 
Prayersforrain said:
And the author himself admits that the entities who gave him such information, and who called themselves "the Invisible College", don't know what there's beyond the astral plane, or even if there's something hmm
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This would indicate that this source is limited to the 'astral plane' - in other words, it is very likely a 'dead dude' - and, as Edgar Casey said, "a dead Presbyterian is a dead Presbyterian".

CEdicon said:
So, although the C's mention that the transition from 3rd density to 5th Density/Contemplative plane is untamperable, it may be the case that, like the C's have said before, beings with devious intentions, belonging to a spiritual heirarchy, may pose as characters/beings/manifestations of which the perceiver has strong emotional ties
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You appear to be mixing a few definitions here. The C's do suggest the the conduit from 3D to 5D cannot be tampered with - and if this is true, then the interference you are suggesting would not be possible - a inpenetrable conduit is just that. As I mentioned in a preceding post...

anart said:
Well, as has been mentioned, according to the C's, the 'journey' from 3D to 5D occurs through an incorruptable conduit - nothing and no one can interfere, so there is no danger of being "caught by a group" or 'becoming moon food right after you expire". Apparently, it is the actual living of life that provides 'food for the moon' - not something that might occur to you as you move from this density to 5th density.
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Judging from the information in this thread, I have to agree with Cyre that it is

Cyre said:
Sounds like mumbo jumbo. While it is important to work on the psychic being one should do it to gain knowledge of the self and not out of fear of some potential threat in the afterlife.
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anart said:
and, as Edgar Casey said, "a dead Presbyterian is a dead Presbyterian".
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I cannot disagree with that statement. Obviously this material has more value for the living, and may not exactly apply for the after-death experience. In my eyes, it reads as more shock material for those who have cemented themselves in with false notions of the after-life experience.

Upon reading the "talk, but do not touch" philosophy, I was confused. I understand that you can not take 3D thinking and expect it to apply to all experiences in higher densities. So if the conventions of physicality, such as touching or physical contact, do not actually apply to higher density levels, that wouldn't surprise me.

If contact at higher density levels constitutes an exchange of energy from one astral body to another, that would not surprise me either.

However, like other members on this forum, I do not often question the accuracy of the C's material, so I will humbly admit that I believe the 5D-via-3D conduit is incorruptable. Personally, though, I won't brush off this material as mumbo jumbo... I put a lot of stock in the validity of channeled material, C's, Cayce, etc. so while this material may have some faulty concepts, there is most likely a glint of honesty in this material's intentions.
 
I think that when you die, and if there happens to be an afterlife, you should apply the same discernment as you do in your life right now. I don't think psychic powers are necessary to be safe from manipulation - I think what the C's said may apply - "Traps don't exist [...]. Free will could not be abridged if you had not obliged".
 
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