A mountain of meat blocking my way back…?

[Tui]

Session 22 August 2011
Quote:

(L) … Now, you made a remark about the diet that is normal for the human being. And I know {name redacted} and a lot of people - not just {name redacted}, but a lot of people - have a problem with a diet that requires you to consume the flesh of other creatures. And I know that we've read what Lierre Keith has written about it, and it's a very moving statement about life and earth and so on and so forth. But I'd like to know if there's something a little more esoteric that we could understand about this? I mean, I don't understand why and how a person can achieve spiritual growth, which is what you seem to be implying throughout all of this stuff that we've been learning, from eating meat. How many other groups have taken a vegetarian pathway and said that this is... I mean, aside from the fact that we now know that agriculture and vegetables and the owning of the land is pure STS destruction... What about fruit? Well of course they didn't have fruit then. Like everybody, I'm having a little problem with this. So can you help me out here?

A: You know the saying: Only through the shedding of blood is there remission of sins?

Q: (L) Yes.

A: And what about: Take eat, this is my body?

Q: (L) Yes.

A: And: Take, drink, this is my blood?

Q: (L) Yes. (Burma) So it sounds like they're saying that there's a hidden thing in the whole resurrection or salvation by the blood thing. That agriculture is evil and we could return by going on an animal-based diet?

A: No not exactly. When humankind "fell" into gross matter, a way was needed to return. This way simply is a manifestation of the natural laws. Consciousness must "eat" also. This is a natural function of the life giving nature of the environment in balance. The Earth is the Great Mother who gives her body, literally, in the form of creatures with a certain level of consciousness for the sustenance of her children of the cosmos. This is the original meaning of those sayings.

Q: (L) So, eating flesh also means eating consciousness which accumulates, I'm assuming is what is being implied here, or what feeds our consciousness so that it grows in step with our bodies? Is that close?

A: Close enough.

Q: (Ailen) And when you eat veggies you're basically eating a much lower level of consciousness. (L) Not only that, but in a sense you're rejecting the gift and you're not feeding consciousness. And that means that all eating of meat should be a sacrament.

A: Yes

________________

The above quote makes the “spiritual growth” aspect of eating meat a little clearer.

Having been a lacto-vegetarian for the past nearly 37 years, the ketogenic diet based on a great quantity of fatty meat looms up like an insurmountable barrier to advancement.

However, as I do eat dairy products, I have started to add more butter and full cream, so at least that is a start. Eggs I only have when they are used in baked goods. I do eat a variety of nuts and seeds, and I eat more fruit than vegetables – I love the fresh taste of fruit. But it seems Laura’s question about the eating of fruit above, was not answered by the C’s.

At present I still feel that it will be difficult for me to eat meat again, as I really do not like the taste of it. Or perhaps I have been very strongly programmed by the idealistic flower children era when I was young, and so I now only think I do not like the taste of meat to justify not eating it.

What is quite worrying, however, is that the C’s state above: “When humankind ‘fell’ into gross matter, a way was needed to return”, which implies that only through the eating of meat will it be possible to return to our previous state of being, elsewhere, before we ‘fell’ here. I cannot cross into there because my consciousness did not develop enough here, which is only done through the eating of meat because it has a higher consciousness than vegetables and fruit.

If this is true… then how to cross my psychological block, becomes an important question. It will not help saying: “At first, try only a little square centimeter of meat.” Actually putting the tiniest sliver of meat into my mouth and then swallowing it without gagging…

I really do have a problem here.

Is there someone else who is struggling with these same difficulties, or who has successfully removed this block? – then I would really like to know that method.

 

[Konstantin]

Dear Ynna

When somebody hears for the first time this informations is a very big shock. Programs start to work and you have a mental blockage .
Yes, there are a lot of people who were in your situation.
For a start first read this important threads in this forum

Important threads for Diet and Health
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,14212.0.html

Read all topics in the link above

After you read all this material , you will find the meaning of the Cs transcripts that you have quoted.And i hope you will successfully remove your block.
Also very important is to read the book and thread with the same name
Vegetarian Myth
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,20771.0.html

The author of this book is former vegetarian who have the knowledge and strength to open her mind and see the reality

Just dont rush , and dont read with prejudice or any expectations. Just take is easy and read carefully every information.

I wish you all the best

 

[Miss.K]

Have you read The Vegetarian Myth Ynna?

For me it quite changed the way I saw the eating of meat. I still think factory farming is horror that should be avoided if possible at all.
But nature is a give and take, and every creature eats and are eaten.

We all end up going back to mother earth.

I think perhaps if you havent read it, it could be a good book to start with, as Lierre Keith definitely comes from the perspective of not wanting to kill and consume the flesh of another creature. But as she studied deeper she found that it is actually not possible, and that agriculture actually is responsible for the worst "animal genocide" ever...

 

[Moonbird]

Having been a lacto-vegetarian for the past nearly 37 years, the ketogenic diet based on a great quantity of fatty meat looms up like an insurmountable barrier to advancement.

Hi Ynna - I feel for you here.

However, as I do eat dairy products, I have started to add more butter and full cream, so at least that is a start. Eggs I only have when they are used in baked goods. I do eat a variety of nuts and seeds, and I eat more fruit than vegetables – I love the fresh taste of fruit. But it seems Laura’s question about the eating of fruit above, was not answered by the C’s.

Are you able to start eating eggs by themselves, say a scrambled egg cooked up in butter? And maybe cutting the amount of fresh fruit you eat in half?

Going slowly and taking small steps each day helped me with my transition to paleo/keto. Although I was never a vegetarian, it felt like a huge step for me in cutting out grains and dairy and sugar. Reading "Primal Body, Primal Mind" also was a big help to me.

Reading the threads and the book Konstantin suggested will help with the blocks you have.

My best to you.

 

[unkl brws]

Fwiw, I started slowly with two-three hard boiled eggs for breakfast and just that helped give me energy. I used to have cereal/grains in the morning and wondered why I didn't have any energy three hours later. I still haven't fully converted to keto but I keep going. You can listen to SOTT Talk Radio's interview with Lierre Keith along with reading the transcript - http://www.sott.net/article/279076-SOTT-Talk-Radio-Dissecting-the-Vegetarian-Myth-Interview-with-Lierre-Keith Hope this helps. :)

 

[loreta]

It will be good also to read the long and interesting and primordial thread about the paleo diet, and you will see that you are not the only one with this issue. I think it is important to read all the thread because in it you have an enormous mountain of information! :)

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,22916.0.html

The book that helped me to make the transition from vegetarianism to paleo was "Life without bread", so it would be good to read the book. And all the many articles in Sott.net about nutrition. All this that is vital information will help you to think about if it is right for you to continue with your diet or change it. Good luck. :)

 

[Thaigrr]

Hello Ynna

Lacto-vegetarianism was my diet for just over 40 years, based on nothing more than it "just felt right". A couple years ago my muscle soreness and arthritis came to a head. I was near retirement age and hadn't had a physical for a dozen or so years. I found an MD, former vegetarian, that espoused the Paleo diet and recommended animal fats, magnesium, turmeric and various other supplements for my ailments. I was aware of this forum at the time and knew of the dietary recommendations but felt I needed an MD to corroborate everything.

Long story short, I took the keto plunge and here 2 years later, muscle and arthritis issues better by 90%.

I had been a meat eater for the first 20 years of my life and the transition back was extremely easy, fortunately. I was dreading having to incorporate digestive aids, etc.

Hope this helps!

Just curious, have you been lacto-veg your entire life?

 

[Tui]

Dear Konstantin

Thank you for your reply.

I have recently started reading the Vegetarian Myth thread and some of the diet threads. Quite daunting, so many pages – I found that I could perhaps read one page and then clicking away, mentally exhausted, sleepy.

After battling on like this for a couple of months, I thought that I would post my problem and perhaps someone will give me a summary of excellent advice contained in all those posts.

This morning, I randomly clicked a Session to read. It was the 20 August 2011 one quoted above. That piece really shed some light on the vegetarian/meat eating question.

Then I randomly picked another Session to read, it was 5 October 2001. The message I found in this Session is again something I need to realise at present: It tells about Ark who in those days often felt sleepy while researching. The Cs gave the reasons why and encouraged him, saying one should keep on pushing, to not give up and give in to sleepiness – exactly what I am experiencing now with the diet question, getting drowsy before even finishing a single page of the posts on the ketogenic diet and vegetarianism (and there are hundreds of pages full of these posts still to read), finding it too difficult to try and discover the answer/s.

But, “Push!” say the Cs:



Session 5 October 2001, with Laura and Ark:

Q: (A) This is an ordinary question about my state of affairs, about this sleepiness, because once in a while it becomes very strong. There are probably many ingredients for this, yet I would like to know which has the most importance. What about this sleepiness when it's time to do research?

A: "Coil failure."

Q: (A) What coil? Coil failure? Do I have a coil in my brain?

A: Hypothalamus.
{Sitting beneath the cerebral hemispheres are the thalamus and hypothalamus. The thalamus is a relay center between the periphery and the cortex. It receives sensory information from virtually every region of the body, filters all of the information, and then relays the filtered portion to the cerebral cortex. The hypothalamus functions much like the thalamus, but mediates its actions by controlling the release of hormones by the pituitary gland. Its major functions include regulation of body temperature, adjusting heart and respiratory rates, and stimulation and inhibition of eating and drinking.}

Q: What kind of failure?

A: Energy surge causes short circuit.

Q: (A) But this phenomenon sometimes was going on for weeks or months.

A: Yes.

Q: (A) Why is it certain activities keep me awake, and certain others make me sleep?

A: Failure has a genetic basis. {Pause} Push against.

Q: (L) What does pushing against this tendency accomplish?

A: Unlocks DNA.

Q: (L) Anything specific that would be beneficial other than just pushing against it?

A: Aging stumps the brain that is unused.

Q: (L) In other words use it or lose it. (A) But I had exactly the same phenomenon like twenty years ago. Is there anything else that will help, other than pushing against it and forcing it to unlock DNA?

A: Not really you must overcome some things on your own steam.

Q: (L) What will be the benefits once he pushes past this?

A: Faculties jacked up a big step higher.

Q: (L) How long will it last if he struggles with it whenever he needs to sleep? This is my idea but – just struggling against it. That's the only way I can describe it.

A: Yes.

Q: (L) I don't think it does any good to walk away from it. If you have to lie down, then struggle while lying down. Take a book with you and battle the sleepiness. If you fall asleep, keep the book handy and the instant you wake up, go back to it. (A) Alright, that confirms what I know …

______________

Then after posting, Konstantin answered: “Read all topics in the link above … read all this material … don’t rush … read carefully every information … then you will understand…”

Thus, no summary. Study it all carefully to understand.

Thank you, Konstantin! All is lessons, as it is often repeated here. I will study it all, taking it slow. And I will push against the drowsiness my predator sprinkles over me, probably to keep me from discovering greater truths.

 

[Solie123]

When somebody hears for the first time this informations is a very big shock. Programs start to work and you have a mental blockage .
Yes, there are a lot of people who were in your situation.

I agree with konstantin on this, but that's the wonderful thing about the work - when you start seeing the symptoms of you're programming it gives you a little more insight on where to you need to be doing your work. Of course this is only the tip of the iceberg, and working through this is going to mean finding where all of this is coming from, and then find a way to releasing your self from the programs.

For me, what helped me with this dilemma was for one is, realizing life is what it IS. Death is going to happen no matter how much we try to fight it, it's the only thing that is certain: that being said, if we as humans feel so inclined to sanctify 'life', than we must sanctify death as well. It's all about balance.

I hope you understand the point i'm trying to make here.

And by all means, I absolutely bet it extremely tough jumping from not having meat for the last 37 years, and than suddenly start eating it again. Its a extremely particular taste and texture, but try not to force yourself too much, cause if you do, you might grow to hate it even more. Instead, experiment! Try maybe ground beef hidden in a mix of vegetables and go from there. Try different meat and different methods of cooking them, and you might find that maybe just maybe you really like duck or something! ;D

 

[Tui]

Miss.K. Quote:

"Have you read The Vegetarian Myth Ynna?

For me it quite changed the way I saw the eating of meat. I still think factory farming is horror that should be avoided if possible at all.
But nature is a give and take, and every creature eats and are eaten.

We all end up going back to mother earth.

I think perhaps if you havent read it, it could be a good book to start with, as Lierre Keith definitely comes from the perspective of not wanting to kill and consume the flesh of another creature. But as she studied deeper she found that it is actually not possible, and that agriculture actually is responsible for the worst "animal genocide" ever..."

___________


I have not yet read The Vegetarian Myth, Miss.K – as Konstantin also recommends, and I will see if it is available in Kindle format.

You are right, of course – looking at the whole matter objectively, “nature is about give and take, and every creature eats and are eaten … and we all end up going back to mother earth.” I must just find a way of accepting “to kill and consume the flesh of another creature”, as you put it, and to apply what seems to be the better life style as far as diet is concerned.

Thank you for helping me cross this “mountain” of mine, Miss.K.

 

[Solie123]

Dear Konstantin

Thank you for your reply.

I have recently started reading the Vegetarian Myth thread and some of the diet threads. Quite daunting, so many pages – I found that I could perhaps read one page and then clicking away, mentally exhausted, sleepy.

After battling on like this for a couple of months, I thought that I would post my problem and perhaps someone will give me a summary of excellent advice contained in all those posts.

This morning, I randomly clicked a Session to read. It was the 20 August 2011 one quoted above. That piece really shed some light on the vegetarian/meat eating question.

Then I randomly picked another Session to read, it was 5 October 2001. The message I found in this Session is again something I need to realise at present: It tells about Ark who in those days often felt sleepy while researching. The Cs gave the reasons why and encouraged him, saying one should keep on pushing, to not give up and give in to sleepiness – exactly what I am experiencing now with the diet question, getting drowsy before even finishing a single page of the posts on the ketogenic diet and vegetarianism (and there are hundreds of pages full of these posts still to read), finding it too difficult to try and discover the answer/s.

But, “Push!” say the Cs:



Session 5 October 2001, with Laura and Ark:

Q: (A) This is an ordinary question about my state of affairs, about this sleepiness, because once in a while it becomes very strong. There are probably many ingredients for this, yet I would like to know which has the most importance. What about this sleepiness when it's time to do research?

A: "Coil failure."

Q: (A) What coil? Coil failure? Do I have a coil in my brain?

A: Hypothalamus.
{Sitting beneath the cerebral hemispheres are the thalamus and hypothalamus. The thalamus is a relay center between the periphery and the cortex. It receives sensory information from virtually every region of the body, filters all of the information, and then relays the filtered portion to the cerebral cortex. The hypothalamus functions much like the thalamus, but mediates its actions by controlling the release of hormones by the pituitary gland. Its major functions include regulation of body temperature, adjusting heart and respiratory rates, and stimulation and inhibition of eating and drinking.}

Q: What kind of failure?

A: Energy surge causes short circuit.

Q: (A) But this phenomenon sometimes was going on for weeks or months.

A: Yes.

Q: (A) Why is it certain activities keep me awake, and certain others make me sleep?

A: Failure has a genetic basis. {Pause} Push against.

Q: (L) What does pushing against this tendency accomplish?

A: Unlocks DNA.

Q: (L) Anything specific that would be beneficial other than just pushing against it?

A: Aging stumps the brain that is unused.

Q: (L) In other words use it or lose it. (A) But I had exactly the same phenomenon like twenty years ago. Is there anything else that will help, other than pushing against it and forcing it to unlock DNA?

A: Not really you must overcome some things on your own steam.

Q: (L) What will be the benefits once he pushes past this?

A: Faculties jacked up a big step higher.

Q: (L) How long will it last if he struggles with it whenever he needs to sleep? This is my idea but – just struggling against it. That's the only way I can describe it.

A: Yes.

Q: (L) I don't think it does any good to walk away from it. If you have to lie down, then struggle while lying down. Take a book with you and battle the sleepiness. If you fall asleep, keep the book handy and the instant you wake up, go back to it. (A) Alright, that confirms what I know …

______________

Then after posting, Konstantin answered: “Read all topics in the link above … read all this material … don’t rush … read carefully every information … then you will understand…”

Thus, no summary. Study it all carefully to understand.

Thank you, Konstantin! All is lessons, as it is often repeated here. I will study it all, taking it slow. And I will push against the drowsiness my predator sprinkles over me, probably to keep me from discovering greater truths.

This is so excellent!! You're on the right path! Lately I've been struggling with the same problem. One thing I like to keep in mind is that you choose your suffering, as there will always be suffering.

 

[Tui]

Moonbird quote:

“Are you able to start eating eggs by themselves, say a scrambled egg cooked up in butter? And maybe cutting the amount of fresh fruit you eat in half?

Going slowly and taking small steps each day helped me with my transition to paleo/keto. Although I was never a vegetarian, it felt like a huge step for me in cutting out grains and dairy and sugar. Reading "Primal Body, Primal Mind" also was a big help to me.

Reading the threads and the book Konstantin suggested will help with the blocks you have.”

_________________

Moonbird, I used to quite like scrambled eggs before becoming a vegetarian so many moons ago. Perhaps I should mix some scrambled eggs with lots of mushrooms, onions, garlic and spinach fried in butter. I’m not sure about the mushrooms, onions and garlic, though, if I should let go of them also. I think they are nightshade vegetables. But just to carry me over the hump…

I have not yet read enough posts to know why I should cut the amount of fresh fruit. The sugars, perhaps? I do not have a very sweet tooth, apart from adoring fruit. I have never taken sugar in my tea or coffee, and very seldom eat cake or candy, although I do like a nice dessert at times. I prefer salty foods (oh dear).

I will certainly read “Primal Body, Primal Mind”.

Thank you for your advice, Moonbird.

 

[Tui]

Quote Solie123:

“I agree with konstantin on this, but that's the wonderful thing about the work – when you start seeing the symptoms of you're programming it gives you a little more insight on where to you need to be doing your work. Of course this is only the tip of the iceberg, and working through this is going to mean finding where all of this is coming from, and then find a way to releasing your self from the programs.

For me, what helped me with this dilemma was for one is, realizing life is what it IS. Death is going to happen no matter how much we try to fight it, it's the only thing that is certain: that being said, if we as humans feel so inclined to sanctify 'life', than we must sanctify death as well. It's all about balance.

I hope you understand the point i'm trying to make here.

And by all means, I absolutely bet it extremely tough jumping from not having meat for the last 37 years, and than suddenly start eating it again. Its a extremely particular taste and texture, but try not to force yourself too much, cause if you do, you might grow to hate it even more. Instead, experiment! Try maybe ground beef hidden in a mix of vegetables and go from there. Try different meat and different methods of cooking them, and you might find that maybe just maybe you really like duck or something!”

_______________

Solie123, indeed, balance is very important. Extremes are to be avoided.

Your hand opens and closes, opens and closes. If it were always a fist or always stretched open, you would be paralysed. Your deepest presence is in every small contracting and expanding, the two as beautifully balanced and coordinated as birds' wings. ― Rumi, The Essential Rumi

Solie123, I think I know where the programming came from: I got initiated and followed an Eastern spiritual method with its strict dietary rules - which I liked from the start, easily becoming a vegetarian - from age 33 and stayed with it faithfully for about 22 years before letting go of it. It was easy to let go, however, because I became convinced that the exhausting method of meditation was not delivering and that I should no longer waste time with it. But I stayed a vegetarian quite happily, as I liked the diet – and I have been a very healthy person while being a vegetarian - although I now realise that problems could have quietly accumulated and could surface in the near future. I haven’t been to a doctor for years and years, and take no medication of any kind whatsoever (I’m 69).

I like your idea of trying ground beef “hidden” in a mix of vegetables. When I’m ready to start with meat again, this will be the way I’ll go, thank you.

And yes, perhaps I will end up liking chicken (not duck)… Before becoming a vegetarian, even as a child, I preferred meat that is very well done – preferable grilled until nearly bone dry, I could not eat even the very best of tender filet steaks unless it was grilled dry, and I only ate the dryish white meat of the breast of a chicken, and the dry white meat of crayfish. I don’t know how I was programmed even as a child to eat meat this way – my family had their meat tender, not overcooked at all. So that is still a mystery to be solved.

 

[Tui]

Quote Thaigrr:

Hello Ynna

Lacto-vegetarianism was my diet for just over 40 years, based on nothing more than it "just felt right". A couple years ago my muscle soreness and arthritis came to a head. I was near retirement age and hadn't had a physical for a dozen or so years. I found an MD, former vegetarian, that espoused the Paleo diet and recommended animal fats, magnesium, turmeric and various other supplements for my ailments. I was aware of this forum at the time and knew of the dietary recommendations but felt I needed an MD to corroborate everything.

Long story short, I took the keto plunge and here 2 years later, muscle and arthritis issues better by 90%.

I had been a meat eater for the first 20 years of my life and the transition back was extremely easy, fortunately. I was dreading having to incorporate digestive aids, etc.

Hope this helps!

Just curious, have you been lacto-veg your entire life?

__________

Hello Thaigrr

It is good to meet a fellow lacto-vegetarian who had successfully made the transition to the ketogenic diet, and to know that it cleared up your muscle and arthritis issues 90% within two years. I better get my head right about changing diets, I would not like to end up with those health issues. Thank you for the warning.

As I explained in a previous post, I became a vegetarian at the age of 33, but before that I only ate meat that was cooked very dry, grilled to cinders, just about.

My transition back to eating meat again will not be so smooth as yours, unfortunately – my head having been messed with by a guru’s “wisdom?” for more than two decades, for instance the serious karmic debt I will have to repay in my next lives, as even purchasing meat is as serious a crime as if I wielded the knife to kill the animal myself. One has thus to get over being considered a “murderer” when eating meat.

 

[Moonbird]

Moonbird, I used to quite like scrambled eggs before becoming a vegetarian so many moons ago. Perhaps I should mix some scrambled eggs with lots of mushrooms, onions, garlic and spinach fried in butter. I’m not sure about the mushrooms, onions and garlic, though, if I should let go of them also. I think they are nightshade vegetables. But just to carry me over the hump…

Sounds like a good idea in order to get you going with eating eggs. Also maybe mixing in a small amount of diced ham with the egg for a nice omelet? (I used to love portabella mushrooms but have eliminated them and I must say I don't even miss them now.)

I have not yet read enough posts to know why I should cut the amount of fresh fruit. The sugars, perhaps? I do not have a very sweet tooth, apart from adoring fruit. I have never taken sugar in my tea or coffee, and very seldom eat cake or candy, although I do like a nice dessert at times. I prefer salty foods (oh dear).

From my understanding, fruit is all sugar. Cutting the amount you eat in half was meant as a way for you to take a small step towards being able to eliminate it completely. I used to love fruit too, and once I learned that it really wasn't good for me because of all the sugars, I started slowly cutting my consumption down. Like the mushrooms, I now do not miss fruit.