About David Icke & James Redfield

[vinny]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Wow, this is just looking more incriminating all the time. We've talked about whether Icke is a dupe or a liar, but it's starting to seem likely that he's simply being mind-controlled.

I tend to agree. It looks very much as if certain people have been injected into his life, in order to vector his thinking in a specific direction. And I've always thought that he comes across as someone easily vectorable.

[...]
Yes, it may make seeing through Icke easier for you. Many of us who found Icke first have had a lot of struggle "peeling away the layers" and seeing him as disinfo. We've had to override our desire to believe and trust in him - not his ideas necessarily, just in the integrity of the man himself. Which is also a healthy process, so either way can be good. :)

yes, unfortunately not everyone is so good at peeling away the layers, especially when working in isolation. It looks as though many people have been / are going to be stuck on the Icke thing. In the alternative scene I've spoken to quite a few people who, if you were to suggest that Icke is misleading, would give you the same blank "poor deluded you" stare that 'normal' people might give you if you bring up, say, "9/11 was an inside job".

 

[Joe]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

An intelligent former Secret Service agent should understand that telling the truth can have serious repercussions. Yet the only sensible conclusion for Shayler is "I must be the Messiah?" It seems like something was done to him when he met that "psychic." The fact that David Icke's path began with an identical psychic encounter is highly suspicious.

I think that, as a general rule, intelligence agents are not really very intelligent. They have the "books smarts" so to say, but as for emotional intelligence, it is often very limited. Intelligence agents are by definition the kind of people who are in awe of power and want some of it, or are very naive about the nature of big government and the way of the world in general. It is for these qualities that they are chosen to be agents in the first place. In short, they're pretty "wet behind the ears".

 

[Joe]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Only slightly off-topic, osit.

Here's something that may go some way towards explaining what might have happened.

A reader with an interesting tale to tell has contacted us regarding the above.

It seems he had some dealing with British Intelligence and learned that MI5 were working on a device that could synchronise with someone’s brainwaves to subtly alter them. The device could work over some distance and the end result would be to leave the targeted individual open to suggestion and change their behaviour.

Another good example of the "duuh" and naive factor when it comes to intel agents. Many of them know about such things but never consider that it may be being used on them to one degree or another. They are themselves involves in screwing people over under orders from their "higher ups" but never seem to consider that their higher ups would happily screw them over if and when needed. Wishful thinking abounds in intel agencies.

 

[Argonaut]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

The stuff about Brian Desborough is particularly interesting, as I have never really known anything about Icke's behind-the-scenes sources outside of Jordan Maxwell, whom I know he relies on for quite a bit of his symbology. I looked up Desborough's book just for fun, and it is interesting to go through the Table of Contents and the Index:

_http://www.amazon.com/They-Cast-Shadows-revisionist-technologies/dp/0595219578/ref=pd_sim_b_1

Jordan Maxwell was apparently a mentor of Icke, and has since accused Icke of plaigarizing him. However, Icke was just one of several that Maxwell accused. And after watching a couple of Maxwell's videos, I got the impression of a "poor me," bitter mentality regarding this issue. He talks as if he's the one working to uncover all this info and everyone else is just ripping him off. But I suppose if it's true the bitterness is understandable.

The Contents of Desborough's book do look interesting. I'm tempted to actually pick up a copy, just to see how it jibes with Icke's stuff.

Wow, this is just looking more incriminating all the time. We've talked about whether Icke is a dupe or a liar, but it's starting to seem likely that he's simply being mind-controlled.

I tend to agree. It looks very much as if certain people have been injected into his life, in order to vector his thinking in a specific direction. And I've always thought that he comes across as someone easily vectorable.

Same here, but for me it was just a vague impression until we really started digging. I just couldn't pinpoint WHY he seemed so vectorable. The discussion in this thread is really clarifying things.

It think that, as a general rule, intelligence agents are not really very intelligent. They have the "books smarts" so to say, but as for emotional intelligence, it is often very limited. Intelligence agents are by definition the kind of people who are in awe of power and want some of it, or are very naive about the nature of big government and the way of the world in general. It is for these qualities that they are chosen to be agents in the first place. In short, they're pretty "wet behind the ears".

That's a good point. The name says "intelligence," but in reality it's just another government-service job. Still, I would think agents would understand that they could get in serious trouble for leaking classified info. But maybe Shayler really wasn't too smart, or he didn't grasp the significance of what he was doing when he went public.

 

[Argonaut]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Wow, this is just looking more incriminating all the time. We've talked about whether Icke is a dupe or a liar, but it's starting to seem likely that he's simply being mind-controlled.

From observing the man and listening to his words, this for me is the most likely explanation. His head was messed with, either from "on high" or by agents of a more mundane nature.

I was going back through the thread and I noticed this (Reply # 130) - It looks like my post and bedower's response to it somehow got merged. It's the content of bedower's post, but with the quote from me attributed to him, and the post itself attributed to me. It also says that it was edited by Perceval. Very strange.

 

[Azur]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

But maybe Shayler really wasn't too smart, or he didn't grasp the significance of what he was doing when he went public.

And that is precisely what, e.g his lack of judgment, that made him a good candidate as a useful idiot.

It goes both ways: the handlers evaluate the risks of the candidate "going south" against the short term viability of success with the candidate in fulfilling whatever it is they have going at the time.

 

[Joe]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Here's a relevant last paragraph from a recent guardian article on the leaked climate change scientists emails that's in the news right now

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/20/climate-sceptics-hackers-leaked-emails

A spokesman for Greenpeace said: "If you looked through any organisation's emails from the last 10 years you'd find something that would raise a few eyebrows. Contrary to what the sceptics claim, the Royal Society, the US National Academy of Sciences, Nasa and the world's leading atmospheric scientists are not the agents of a clandestine global movement against the truth. This stuff might drive some web traffic, but so does David Icke."

 

[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Well, I had to see someone in Bloemfontein yesterday, so I had lots of driving time to exercise my mind on this Icke business (1000km to be exact!).

Now if we assume Icke is either knowingly or unknowingly a disinformation agent, what *exactly* is the greatest danger his message holds? Or is his greatest danger that he draws such a large audience and withholds or confuses the *really essential* stuff, essentially channelling them away from the truth, or channelling them towards half truths and confusion.

I’m just going to give my personal developing hypothesis on this, however flawed it may be.

a seemingly intelligent man does not seem to consider or address the fact that his books are WIDELY available throughout the high street shops in the UK.

Or in South Africa for that matter, can’t speak for elsewhere. He has bulldozed the world with his ‘reptilian agenda’, and since that is ‘the’ thing he’s predominantly associated with, since there are scores of others dedicated to 911, Bilderbergs, Zionism, illuminati, New World Order etc. etc., I’m going to focus on his reptilian thing since that is what differentiates him from the rest in the public’s eye (or in fact how he damages all these other conspiracies with his erroneous ‘reptilian’ hypothesis). It is not my understanding that only Icke’s genetic ‘bloodline’ *exclusively* are (according to him) susceptible to the reptilian influence or in cahoots with the reptiles. I’m using the word 'reptiles' here cause it’s Icke’s terminology, but essentially I’m talking about 4D (and whatever shape or form that might take). I think anyone who wields power in our world today, can be targeted by 4D (definitely not because of a certain genetic configuration, as Icke claims - bloodline).

I seriously doubt if many Icke followers are engaged in ‘knowing thyself’, which for me forms the core of our current situation – who and what we are and our role in all of this. This is because Icke (like so many others in fact as well), is pushing the ‘us vs. them’ message. He keeps talking about ‘the bigger picture, the bigger picture’, but he himself doesn’t 'see' the bigger picture (purposely or not we cannot know for sure). This is what I meant earlier on in the threat about leaving his followers powerless. He provides all the theatrics, and them leaves them hanging. He doesn’t perceive it as ‘the two faces of God’, he has a childlike approach to it, fuelled by emotion, and relayed as ‘good and bad’. We are good, they are bad. Don’t look at yourself, you’re good, it’s ‘them’. They’re bad. This is obviously in part what you were referring to, Perceval.

He is the worst spokesperson for esoterica and the current global control system that we could ever have not hoped for.

Now since this ‘war’ is not a war of the flesh (this sounds a bit Biblical, and is not my intention), the fact that Icke so strongly endorses the gun-toting Jones these days is also reason for concern, and it evidences his lack of insight (again, let’s ignore for now if it’s intentional – by design – or if he’s controlled or influenced by someone or something - unconscious). Also, his endorsement of Jones makes him a hypocrite, because he keeps saying “human race, get off your knees”.

Anyway to get back to his reptilian ‘bubble bubble toil and trouble’…

Apart from Icke bulldozing the scene at present with his version of the story, what other reptilian ‘accounts’ were/are there in modern times (past century)? From my book The Element Encyclopedia of Secret Societies. This book includes any group of people with a certain belief system (past and present) as well, UFO community etc etc. So the words ‘Secret Society’ in the title is not very apt.

Reptilians

One of the features of the 1980s UFO scene was a series of attempts to categorize the entities reported by people who had encountered UFO occupants. These efforts foundered on the sheer variety of reported space beings, but managed to turn up a handful of common types. The so-called “grays”, large-headed dwarfs with gray or brown skin, spindly limbs, and black featureless eyes were the most widely publicized variety of UFO pilot, but another variety consisted of lizard-like aliens with scaled skin and yellow eyes. These “reptilians” soon became a recognized type in the UFO research circles. See unidentified flying objects (UFOs).

The reptilians, like so much of the UFO phenomenon, showed remarkable parallels to the science fiction of previous decades – lizard-men from other planets were a staple of the pulp science fiction magazines – and to traditions on the fringes of the occult community. The Hefferlin manuscript, a purportedly factual document circulating in American occult circles since the 1940s, claimed that evil reptile-men from Venus invaded the earth in the distant past to do battle with benevolent humanoid Martians for control of Rainbow City, a metropolis hidden beneath the Antarctic ice cap. Despite obvious borrowings from science fiction-horror writer H.P. Lovecraft’s Cthulhu mythos, (my note: Credo Mutwa also calls it something sounding like ‘Cthulhu’, or more like Citahuru or something) the Hefferlin manuscript and an assortment of writings based on it helped popularize the idea of sinister alien reptiles and blend it with the experiences of UFO contactees. See Rainbow City.

A crucial role in this process of synthesis was played by an American science fiction television production (two mini-series and a short-lived weekly series) of the early 1980s. Titled V, these shows pitted humanity against an invasion of shape-shifting reptiles (my note: important, since it's identical to Icke's story, and its again very 'physical' and it might evidence that Icke is indeed a 'spokesperson' for the 'wrong side', those in control of mainstream media, and it's maybe no coincidence that Icke himself was also 'in' the mainstream media - BBC no less. So maybe the V-series was Icke's convenient and planned forerunner) from outer space. The aliens used advanced technology and mind-control methods to manipulate humans and take over the earth’s political and economic systems. Just as the cinema Satanism of the 1960s’ horror movie Rosemary’s Baby was copied in the first wave of Satanic ritual abuse claims in the late 1970s, most of Vs themes appeared in detail in the alien reptile mythologies of the next decade. (My note: All these "mythologies" started by Icke).

By the 1990s, UFO contactees and abtuctees had woven the “grays”, “Nordics”, reptilians , and other widely reported types of UFO occupants into their narratives of alien contact. The reptilians, many contactees claimed, came from solar systems in the constellation Draco. Where the Nordics were generally portrayed in a positive light, and the grays tended to range between positive and neutral, the reptilians came in for mostly negative portrayals, playing essentially the same role they had in the V storyline. It was in this form that they entered the writings of David Icke, whose attempt to create a universal synthesis of all rejected knowledge gave a central role to the reptilians. See rejected knowledge.

Icke’s reptilians are the evil aliens of the V series projected onto a sprawling mythology of class warfare. According to Icke, the reptilians are the secret masters of the world, a race of aliens from Draco who cross-bred with human beings (my note: keeping it physical) millennia ago to produce hybrid bloodlines that run the world on the surface, while others of pure reptile blood lurk in the caverns far below. The crossbreeds, who can shape-shift from human to reptile form, include all past and present royal families of Britain, all other European royal houses, and everyone of the presidents of the United States, from George Washington to George W. Bush. It is no exaggeration to say that in Icke’s view every person who has ever held political, religious, or economic influence at any point in human history is a reptilian crossbreed.

While Icke insists that there are good reptilians elsewhere in the universe, he paints the ones we have here on earth in uniformly unflattering colors. As the rulers of the planet, they are personally responsible for all the evil, ignorance, and suffering on earth, manipulating humanity through a network of secret societies to cause war, poverty, and other social ills. The Knights Templar, the Illuminati, and most of the other bêtes noires of contemporary conspiracy theory are simply fronts for the vast reptilian conspiracy, and the establishment of the New World Order is their central goal. If this were not enough, they also passionately enjoy drinking human blood. To be fair to the reptilian crossbreeds, Icke admits that their nefarious deeds are not entirely their fault, as most of them are possessed by lizard-demons from the lower fourth dimension. See Illuminati; Knights Templar; New World Order.

(my note: Okay, so firstly, Icke definitely paints a physical picture in a way, with them lurking in underground caverns and what not and the 'human' shape-shifting. Secondly, he ignores the two different polarities, STS/STO (that’s if he is even aware of it). The bit that their deeds are not entirely their fault!!! – instead of their natural polarity and existential nature and necessity to eat, evidences Icke’s black and white thinking, and almost childlike approach – ‘good’ and ‘bad’ (subjective).

This extraordinarily colorful mythology has found an eager audience in counterculture circles throughout the Western world, and has been incorporated into the theories of several other popular conspiracy theorists. As an ideology of class conflict, which is its primary thrust, it has few equals. Not even the most extreme forms of Marxism ever accused members of the industrial world’s political and economic elites of being shape-shifting extraterrestrial monsters who thirst for human blood. The evidence Icke presents is thin even by conspiracy theory standards – his claim that US president George Bush Sr. is a reptilian crossbreed, for example, depends on the testimony of one person who claimed under hypnosis to have been used as a robotic sex slave by most of the world’s political leaders, and on Icke’s own unsupported claim that he knows other people who saw Bush shape-shift into reptile form – but this has not prevented his books from being taken as gospel on the far ends of the political and cultural spectrum throughout Europe and America. Further reading: Icke 1995, Icke 1999, Icke 2001)

Okay so since Icke doesn’t believe in channelling, as someone else in the thread mentioned (I didn’t know this about him), we can at least get an idea where he gets his ideas from, apart from possible ‘other influences’, if you know what I mean. The fact that he doesn’t believe in channelling is also cause for concern, considering that certain information can only reach humans through channelling (so him refuting channelling, also doesn’t bode well for him, and possibly also indicates a higher nefarious influence). Again, let’s ignore for now whether it’s conscious or unconscious.

Let me just put the above references in here as well, so we can get as much origins of ‘reptilian’ folklore as possible here – mainstream at least, and which might have shaped Icke’s ideas (at least in part). Now this is just to see where else ‘reptile’ claims have surfaced before Icke in recent times.

Rainbow City

At the extreme end of the contemporary alternative-realities spectrum is the claim that an ancient Martian city, made of multicolored plastic blocks, lies hidden somewhere beneath the icy wastes of Antarctica. Rainbow City, as this metropolis is called, is one part of a vast network of underground Martian cities established two and a half million years ago. The other cities have long since been abandoned, but Rainbow City remains inhabited by descendants of the original Martian colonists. Warm springs on all sides keep out the Antarctic cold, and ice walls 10,000 feet tall guard it from intruders – not merely humans, but also savage lizard beings from Venus, the age-old enemies of the Martians. See Antarctica; extraterrestrials; Reptilians (my note: already covered above); underground realms (my note: Can’t help to think of Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus here!

These claims first surfaced in the American occult community in the 1940s in a document called the Hefferlin Manuscript, supposedly written by William and Gladys Hefferlin after their first contact with Rani Khatani, one of the “Ancient Three” who govern the Martian refuge. Rumors claim that the Hefferlins, shortly after putting their manuscript into circulation, moved to Rainbow City and are living there now, freed from old age and death by advanced Martian medical science. The tale is colorful enough that it seems almost a shame to point out that no single scrap of evidence supports these fancies. Further reading: Kafton-Minkel 1989.

Okaaaayy….can someone please take me out of my misery here.

Anyway, I don’t see any reptilians mentioned in the other references above at a quick glance, so that’s it for the moment.

So Icke is basically ignoring the ‘bigger picture’, a phrase he loves to use. He’s not acknowledging Gurdjieff as far as I can tell (something unforgivable given that he’s been doing this for 20 years now), and he’s also ignoring psychopathology. So I’m not exactly sure what his followers think when they encounter pathology in their personal lives, since according to Icke only the elites are bad, bad, bad, and the rest are all good – roughly speaking. Something tells me if someone like Icke had to formulate an opinion on psychopathology, that he would again make it a bad/good thing, instead of 'it is what it is'. Or he would put such a spin on it, that the vast majority again wouldn't be able make heads or tails of the concept, and he would most likely weave shape-shifting reptilians and vampirism into it. I think I would also hate to see what he does with the OP hypothesis...

He confuses the concept of the ‘reptilian brain’ and that we all have it, completely with the Illuminati and their supposed reptilian genetics. He says ‘the reptilian brain’ evidences ‘only their’ behaviour, but for some reason leaves the rest of humanity out in this ‘observation’ of his.

This is in Alice in Wonderland, p. 472, that he does that.

Lastly, since we know (from the Cs) that, Gurdjieff (know thyself), the breathing, and possibly the dancing are the 3 best ‘tools’ at our disposal at this time, and Icke makes no mention of any of these, it is very sad that he has such a large following (together with his cronies in the ‘business’).

I just did this quickly, so hope it makes any sense, I’m sure I could have formulated it a little better. I can actually really pull his spiritual ‘take’ on things apart if I want (after familiarizing myself with it a little better), but that just seems to me like time that could be much better spent on something more constructive.

EDIT: If they could somehow foresee the channelled info that would come through in future, then Icke can definitely be perceived as a tool who derailed and confused all the essential concepts that would come through (essentially 4D concepts), and his bait that he uses to hook an audience, is his 'accurate' meat and potatoes, as Jones would call it.

2ND EDIT: Another thing to consider, is where does a seemingly 'ordinary guy' get the funds from to get his books in such volumes on all the shelves in bookstores...and where does a seemingly 'ordinary guy' get the funds from to visit 40 countries, with a household and kids to support.

 

[anart]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

I just did this quickly, so hope it makes any sense, I’m sure I could have formulated it a little better.

I think it makes good sense - quite a productive 1000km drive!

 

[aragorn]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

When we want a person to be sincere because of pieces of truth they espouse, we lose the ability to See the reality of the situation - Critical Correction comes into play and the blanks get filled in with 'he's sincere' , 'he's well-meaning' 'his heart is in the right place', 'he believes what he's saying' - all the while missing the crux that if we can see the problems then why can't they? Are we that amazingly perceptive? No - not really.

Never - ever - underestimate the level of control over information on this planet and the fact that pieces of truth cannot discount reams of disinformation.

The battle for the human mind is fully controlled and relentless and if you really think that Icke isn't serving a very specific purpose (and that he doesn't know that - on one level or another) then you've really - really - got to take those goggles off and realize that any flinching away from the Truth, any partial revealing, any 'almost correct' espousing of information is not only a disservice to humanity, it is by design to keep us in our place - and it works.

Well said! I've noticed a peculiar form of this "filling in the blanks" when I've a couple of times in my life tried to sell or buy a used car. If I'm selling, I'll gladly agree and even point out new flaws and scratches of my car. If I'm buying, I'll gladly agree and point out new fantastic details in the car! :D

Looking at Icke's bibliography, I'm not impressed. He really hasn't done any work of his own.

This was ultimately what broke the spell for me. I started noticing that he only quoted work and writings of others and many times without giving them credit. I remember him saying about this reptilian thing something like: "Well, there just was so many individuals coming to me telling about these experiences that I just had to incorporate this reptilian theory into my work." Just like that - without proper research! And if you watch one of these lectures he gives - the only "evidence" he presents is a nice slide show of images or drawings that fits into the theme he is talking about.

While Icke insists that there are good reptilians elsewhere in the universe, he paints the ones we have here on earth in uniformly unflattering colors. As the rulers of the planet, they are personally responsible for all the evil, ignorance, and suffering on earth, manipulating humanity through a network of secret societies to cause war, poverty, and other social ills. The Knights Templar, the Illuminati, and most of the other bêtes noires of contemporary conspiracy theory are simply fronts for the vast reptilian conspiracy, and the establishment of the New World Order is their central goal.

Nice deductions E. The line in red and bold really caught my eye, this could be the main reasons why "they" want to propagate this, I think.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

We were talking this over here and came to the following conclusions. Icke is pretty good at describing "limits of perception". He makes the observation that we are hypnotized by the media to see only a small, false take on reality. Electrochemical means are also used to this effect (i.e. in foods, atmosphere). The problem is that his solutions is basically the following: "We need to expand our awareness. Once we are aware of what's going on, "they" can't control us any longer." The main ingredient missing from this enlightenment recipe is that of conscience. Expanding awareness means nothing without development of Being. As pointed out, hi doesn't talk about polarity. And importantly, awareness can be expanded along both STS and STO paths. Any "truth" that leaves out this knowledge can be co-opted by STS. The whole "conspiracy" can be revealed and even this can be used by 4D STS as a means to solidify their control via the revolution and chaos that could be effected. Alex Jones has the violent revolution angle covered, and it seems Icke has the STS "enlightenment" angle covered...

 

[Argonaut]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

I seriously doubt if many Icke followers are engaged in ‘knowing thyself’, which for me forms the core of our current situation – who and what we are and our role in all of this. This is because Icke (like so many others in fact as well), is pushing the ‘us vs. them’ message. He keeps talking about ‘the bigger picture, the bigger picture’, but he himself doesn’t 'see' the bigger picture (purposely or not we cannot know for sure). This is what I meant earlier on in the threat about leaving his followers powerless. He provides all the theatrics, and them leaves them hanging. He doesn’t perceive it as ‘the two faces of God’, he has a childlike approach to it, fuelled by emotion, and relayed as ‘good and bad’. We are good, they are bad. Don’t look at yourself, you’re good, it’s ‘them’. They’re bad. This is obviously in part what you were referring to, Perceval.

He is the worst spokesperson for esoterica and the current global control system that we could ever have not hoped for.

Exactly. As Rixon Stuart stated, "it’s in the sphere of genuine spiritual knowledge that Icke is most noticeably lacking. Indeed in terms of spiritual development Icke is almost infantile." The funny thing is, Icke goes off about the reptiles being "bad," but then says that in the end there IS NO BAD - that both humanity and the reptiles are just "actors in the play." And once the play is over we'll all live happily ever after. So he does this sort of crazy switch from cartoonish "us vs. them" to New Agey "all is love and light." The contrast almost makes my brain ache. It's like he has two totally separate philosophies about life, and the two never touch. They just sit there in his mind, side-by-side. The one constant, as you said, is that he claims there's nothing wrong with US at all. To Icke, "waking up" simply means accepting that "we're all One." That's a HUGE difference between Icke's philosophy and Laura's - For Laura the principles of reality permeate ALL of reality, including the dynamics down here in 3D. For Icke that's just not the case - he sees it as "good vs. evil" down here, but pretty much all "good" beyond that.

[quote author=E]

Apart from Icke bulldozing the scene at present with his version of the story, what other reptilian ‘accounts’ were/are there in modern times (past century)? From my book The Element Encyclopedia of Secret Societies. This book includes any group of people with a certain belief system (past and present) as well, UFO community etc etc. So the words ‘Secret Society’ in the title is not very apt.

[/quote]

The info from that book is very enlightening; thanks! It shows that maybe the PTB were planning something by acclimating the public to the concept of "reptilians." And then Icke came along. He became a sportscaster, putting him in the public eye... and then could've been hand-picked by the PTB, based on fitting a certain psychological profile. Or was he chosen from childhood? Are there any accounts of Icke's childhood anywhere?

I like how the book shows a clear evolution of the reptilian concept, leading up to Icke combining it all into one big "super-theory." It makes it look painfully obvious where Icke's ideas came from. Of course, the authors might laugh if you suggested that genuine 4D Lizzies could be behind the disinfo campaign; they'd lump you right in with Icke. Which means the campaign has worked.
[/quote]


[quote author=E]

Okay so since Icke doesn’t believe in channelling, as someone else in the thread mentioned (I didn’t know this about him), we can at least get an idea where he gets his ideas from, apart from possible ‘other influences’, if you know what I mean. The fact that he doesn’t believe in channelling is also cause for concern, considering that certain information can only reach humans through channelling (so him refuting channelling, also doesn’t bode well for him, and possibly also indicates a higher nefarious influence).

[/quote]

Indeed it does. I remember reading something (on the Cass site maybe?) which said that if someone claims that ALL channeling is disinfo, it strongly points to that person being disinfo themselves. Because no honest truth-seeker would make such an absolute statement, only someone with an agenda. And considering how Icke himself had a drug-induced revelation from a "disembodied voice" - which he trusted without question - WHY would he flatly demonize channeling? Drug-induced visions are highly unreliable and you're at the mercy of the experience. Channeling can be performed scientifically, the signal can be tuned, and the veracity of the source can be tested. Yet Icke trusts the first and condemns the second? Something stinks here. Icke has also claimed that the builders of Stonehenge may have worshiped the reptilians. Based on what Laura's learned, this is a complete 180-degree perversion of fact. Icke has also demonized Sufism. In Icke's world, nearly EVERY spiritual endeavor in man's history was evil and in service to the reptiles (Shamanism seems to be the one exception). This blanket condemnation seems to have been reinforced by Arizona Wilder. From the Ivan Fraser article:

More revealing, however, about AW’s ‘evidence’ was that she demonised the ancient archetypes and occult images throughout. Osiris, Isis, Druids, even Harvest Festival. My own research tells me that there is a very positive side to these things. In fact these things are exactly what the Bible was written to obscure. AW’s testimony was overtly Judeo-Christian in its level of gross and blanket demonisation of the occult. Something which I had warned David about doing when I read his draft. Something which he promised to amend for the final version.

But of course, that was before he met AW. And as a consequence of her testimony, it seems, David decided not to balance out his demonisation, but instead increased it. If I was going to set David up to make that mistake, that’s exactly how I would have done it!

So yes, Icke's being very childish and simplistic. Channeling, and anything else considered mystical, "occult," or esoteric - probably even Gurdjieff - is condemned by him as "disinfo" or worse. Icke even condemns the New Age movement, which is funny, since his view of reality is lifted directly from it.


[quote author=E]

So Icke is basically ignoring the ‘bigger picture’, a phrase he loves to use. He’s not acknowledging Gurdjieff as far as I can tell (something unforgivable given that he’s been doing this for 20 years now), and he’s also ignoring psychopathology. So I’m not exactly sure what his followers think when they encounter pathology in their personal lives, since according to Icke only the elites are bad, bad, bad, and the rest are all good – roughly speaking. Something tells me if someone like Icke had to formulate an opinion on psychopathology, that he would again make it a bad/good thing, instead of 'it is what it is'. Or he would put such a spin on it, that the vast majority again wouldn't be able make heads or tails of the concept, and he would most likely weave shape-shifting reptilians and vampirism into it. I think I would also hate to see what he does with the OP hypothesis...
[/quote]

Icke has mentioned "bad guys" (i.e. shape-shifters) outside of the elite, but more as isolated incidents than a fact of existence. If he became familiar with psychopathy he'd surely put a spin on it. I can easily see him claiming they're all part of the royal "bloodlines" or something. I can't even guess what he'd say about OP's. I bet it would be a doozy, though.

Oh - A friend of mine actually knows Neil Hague, the artist who did those cool psychadelic-type paintings in many of Icke's books. This friend also happens to be familiar with Laura and the C's, and he has recently introduced Neil to the Cass & SotT sites (which Neil had never heard of). He had an interesting conversation with Neil about the Cass perspective on things. Neil told my friend that he would relay some of this to David Icke, including the sites so Icke could check them out. I thought this was a great idea at the time (a few months ago), but now I'm not so sure. Knowing what I know now, I feel a bit strange thinking that David Icke may be browsing around SotT and the Cass website! Or maybe even this forum. I mean, who knows what that could lead to?

[quote author=E]

I just did this quickly, so hope it makes any sense, I’m sure I could have formulated it a little better. I can actually really pull his spiritual ‘take’ on things apart if I want (after familiarizing myself with it a little better), but that just seems to me like time that could be much better spent on something more constructive.

[/quote]

The stuff you posted here is excellent. I see possible value in deconstructing his spiritual ideas, but it also sounds very time-consuming and energy intensive. So there probably are better things to be doing. :)

[quote author=E]

2ND EDIT: Another thing to consider, is where does a seemingly 'ordinary guy' get the funds from to get his books in such volumes on all the shelves in bookstores...and where does a seemingly 'ordinary guy' get the funds from to visit 40 countries, with a household and kids to support.
[/quote]

That's a pretty good question... At this point in his life I could see the money coming from his fans' donations/book purchases, at least some of it. But you're right, Icke seems to have all the funds he needs at his disposal. Maybe his books just sell THAT well? I suppose the organizations he speaks at may pay some travel expenses. I dunno, maybe it's something that can be researched. Doesn't Icke himself say "follow the money" to learn what's going on? :)

 

[Argonaut]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

We were talking this over here and came to the following conclusions. Icke is pretty good at describing "limits of perception". He makes the observation that we are hypnotized by the media to see only a small, false take on reality. Electrochemical means are also used to this effect (i.e. in foods, atmosphere). The problem is that his solutions is basically the following: "We need to expand our awareness. Once we are aware of what's going on, "they" can't control us any longer." The main ingredient missing from this enlightenment recipe is that of conscience. Expanding awareness means nothing without development of Being. As pointed out, hi doesn't talk about polarity. And importantly, awareness can be expanded along both STS and STO paths. Any "truth" that leaves out this knowledge can be co-opted by STS. The whole "conspiracy" can be revealed and even this can be used by 4D STS as a means to solidify their control via the revolution and chaos that could be effected. Alex Jones has the violent revolution angle covered, and it seems Icke has the STS "enlightenment" angle covered...

Very good point! This never even occured to me, but now it seems so obvious (that's been happening a lot on this thread, though). In light of all this, it's funny how Icke talks about "infinite Love" being the ultimate reality. It's all so insidious. I'm actually getting a funny feeling inside right now, because what you say here "clicks" so well as Icke's true "mission." It makes total sense, and the implications are huge.

 

[Voyageur]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

E said;

He doesn’t perceive it as ‘the two faces of God’, he has a childlike approach to it, fuelled by emotion, and relayed as ‘good and bad’. We are good, they are bad. Don’t look at yourself, you’re good, it’s ‘them’. They’re bad. This is obviously in part what you were referring to, Perceval.

Thanks E, good thinking while driving! Will need to ponder your hypothesis further and the replies; much gets written here in a day – however in this quote you made reference to ‘”…childlike approach…”, which appeared amusing because the other day, popped David’s name into an anagram generator that was offered as a link in another post and the following appeared.

'David Icke'
anagrams to
'Kid advice.'

Apt perhaps?

 

[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

"it’s in the sphere of genuine spiritual knowledge that Icke is most noticeably lacking. Indeed in terms of spiritual development Icke is almost infantile." The funny thing is, Icke goes off about the reptiles being "bad," but then says that in the end there IS NO BAD

His work is littered with these kind of disparities and contradictions.

So he does this sort of crazy switch from cartoonish "us vs. them" to New Agey "all is love and light."

Exactly.

The contrast almost makes my brain ache. It's like he has two totally separate philosophies about life, and the two never touch. They just sit there in his mind, side-by-side. The one constant, as you said, is that he claims there's nothing wrong with US at all. To Icke, "waking up" simply means accepting that "we're all One."

I’m sure a healthy portion of his followers suffer from cognitive dissonance trying marry all these concepts.

It shows that maybe the PTB were planning something by acclimating the public to the concept of "reptilians." And then Icke came along. He became a sportscaster, putting him in the public eye... and then could've been hand-picked by the PTB, based on fitting a certain psychological profile. Or was he chosen from childhood? Are there any accounts of Icke's childhood anywhere?

Yeah, I never quite thought of Icke dovetailing the V-series, but it certainly looks like that, doesn’t it?

I like how the book shows a clear evolution of the reptilian concept, leading up to Icke combining it all into one big "super-theory." It makes it look painfully obvious where Icke's ideas came from. Of course, the authors might laugh if you suggested that genuine 4D Lizzies could be behind the disinfo campaign; they'd lump you right in with Icke. Which means the campaign has worked.

Yup, that’s the damage been done.

Indeed it does. I remember reading something (on the Cass site maybe?) which said that if someone claims that ALL channeling is disinfo, it strongly points to that person being disinfo themselves. Because no honest truth-seeker would make such an absolute statement, only someone with an agenda. And considering how Icke himself had a drug-induced revelation from a "disembodied voice" - which he trusted without question - WHY would he flatly demonize channeling? Drug-induced visions are highly unreliable and you're at the mercy of the experience. Channeling can be performed scientifically, the signal can be tuned, and the veracity of the source can be tested. Yet Icke trusts the first and condemns the second? Something stinks here.

Well, there’s that, but then he contradicts himself again by including Barbara Marciniak in one of his bibliographies. All these contradictions…

Icke has mentioned "bad guys" (i.e. shape-shifters) outside of the elite, but more as isolated incidents than a fact of existence. If he became familiar with psychopathy he'd surely put a spin on it. I can easily see him claiming they're all part of the royal "bloodlines" or something. I can't even guess what he'd say about OP's. I bet it would be a doozy, though.

In fact, at this point in time, ‘doozy’ is a bit of a euphemism! A few other words come to mind!

Neil told my friend that he would relay some of this to David Icke, including the sites so Icke could check them out. I thought this was a great idea at the time (a few months ago), but now I'm not so sure. Knowing what I know now, I feel a bit strange thinking that David Icke may be browsing around SotT and the Cass website! Or maybe even this forum. I mean, who knows what that could lead to?

Oh don’t you worry! Mr. Icke is well aware of SOTT, since I initially linked to SOTT via his website, and this was in 2006! At least he served a good purpose in my life!

The main ingredient missing from this enlightenment recipe is that of conscience. Expanding awareness means nothing without development of Being. As pointed out, hi doesn't talk about polarity. And importantly, awareness can be expanded along both STS and STO paths. Any "truth" that leaves out this knowledge can be co-opted by STS. The whole "conspiracy" can be revealed and even this can be used by 4D STS as a means to solidify their control via the revolution and chaos that could be effected. Alex Jones has the violent revolution angle covered, and it seems Icke has the STS "enlightenment" angle covered...

Pretty much!

'David Icke'
anagrams to
'Kid advice.'