About David Icke & James Redfield
- Thread starter Argonaut
- Start date
Argonaut
Jedi Master
Re: About David Icke & James Redfield
I'm seeing now that my prior post was full of lies. The program triggered in me wasn't related to Icke at all. It was all about me and my own self-importance. Lots of resentment, hurt feelings, depression, and memories of past "rejections" have been coming up since E challenged my words about Icke "not grasping." "I" am feeling misunderstood and severely disliked. But I know it has nothing to do with what was said in this thread; it's a programmed reaction from my childhood. Whenever the circumstances align enough to resemble my childhood experiences, these emotions and reactions surface in me. But the alignment must have been perfect this time, because it hit me pretty hard. It's only happened to this degree on a few other occasions in my adult life. And never online, always in person.
I'm very glad that anart jumped in and agreed with E, otherwise I would've remained blinded by my self-importance. It took two members "ganging up" on me to kick my programs into overdrive and let me see that I was having a programmed reaction. And even then it took a while before I got to the root of it. It's pretty messed up that I saw my reaction as being about my views on Icke, rather than something that's been part of me for most of my life. My emotions are still reeling from this one small interaction. It's amazing how strongly one can be triggered in an online forum.
I'm seeing now that my prior post was full of lies. The program triggered in me wasn't related to Icke at all. It was all about me and my own self-importance. Lots of resentment, hurt feelings, depression, and memories of past "rejections" have been coming up since E challenged my words about Icke "not grasping." "I" am feeling misunderstood and severely disliked. But I know it has nothing to do with what was said in this thread; it's a programmed reaction from my childhood. Whenever the circumstances align enough to resemble my childhood experiences, these emotions and reactions surface in me. But the alignment must have been perfect this time, because it hit me pretty hard. It's only happened to this degree on a few other occasions in my adult life. And never online, always in person.
I'm very glad that anart jumped in and agreed with E, otherwise I would've remained blinded by my self-importance. It took two members "ganging up" on me to kick my programs into overdrive and let me see that I was having a programmed reaction. And even then it took a while before I got to the root of it. It's pretty messed up that I saw my reaction as being about my views on Icke, rather than something that's been part of me for most of my life. My emotions are still reeling from this one small interaction. It's amazing how strongly one can be triggered in an online forum.
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
Re: About David Icke & James Redfield
Just so you understand, Argonaurt, I did not 'jump in' and E and I did not 'gang up' on you. I simply stated that it was a good question, because I thought it was. I was having the same thoughts myself and would have asked the question, if E had not asked it first. It wasn't an indictment, it was merely a question - did you have a reason for thinking that, or were you missing the obvious for other reasons?
It was a simple, energetically neutral (meaning it wasn't an 'I told you so' or 'yeah!' - just a question) question. Your reaction is interesting and speaks to narcissistic wounding to the point where you feel what you write IS you - it's not, it's just 'what you write'.
You don't have to be perfect or always right to be accepted here - you are accepted. This very small thing seems to have sent you into a tailspin which is a classic symptom of narcissistic wounding and allowing the intellect to usurp the energy of the emotional center.
I assume you've already read all of the recommended psychology books, especially the 'big 5' - but if not, it is highly recommended.
Argonaut said:
Just so you understand, Argonaurt, I did not 'jump in' and E and I did not 'gang up' on you. I simply stated that it was a good question, because I thought it was. I was having the same thoughts myself and would have asked the question, if E had not asked it first. It wasn't an indictment, it was merely a question - did you have a reason for thinking that, or were you missing the obvious for other reasons?
It was a simple, energetically neutral (meaning it wasn't an 'I told you so' or 'yeah!' - just a question) question. Your reaction is interesting and speaks to narcissistic wounding to the point where you feel what you write IS you - it's not, it's just 'what you write'.
You don't have to be perfect or always right to be accepted here - you are accepted. This very small thing seems to have sent you into a tailspin which is a classic symptom of narcissistic wounding and allowing the intellect to usurp the energy of the emotional center.
I assume you've already read all of the recommended psychology books, especially the 'big 5' - but if not, it is highly recommended.
Argonaut
Jedi Master
Re: About David Icke & James Redfield
I missed the obvious for other reasons. I know that my perception of being "ganged up" on was wrong. But since "I" perceived it that way, certain programs were triggered and I had a strong emotional reaction. And that made it clear to me that E wasn't in the wrong - I was.
[quote author=anart]
Your reaction is interesting and speaks to narcissistic wounding to the point where you feel what you write IS you - it's not, it's just 'what you write'.
[/quote]
This sounds very possible. I do seem to identify deeply with things that I write. This may be because I feel so inhibited with face-to-face interactions, so writing is how I feel I can fully express myself. And when that is shown as "wrong" I react personally. I also agree that narcissistic wounding seems to fit.
[quote author=anart]
This very small thing seems to have sent you into a tailspin which is a classic symptom of narcissistic wounding and allowing the intellect to usurp the energy of the emotional center.
[/quote]
Yes, and the severity of my reaction - based on a few totally neutral words - shocked me. The emotions all came up and flooded my mind, and I wasn't sure what to do with them. I'm glad I didn't react by going on the offensive and lashing out, as I've done in the past. But those urges were there. I'd like to read more about the intellect usurping energy from the emotional center, because this sounds like it could explain a lot of my reactions and problems. Some friends have described me as seeming "emotionless" due to my lack of reaction to things. Could this be because my emotional center doesn't have enough energy available? I practically live in my head - no real social life, no leaving the house, just sitting alone like a hermit reading books and reading/writing online. So this could be a huge imbalance I need to look at.
[quote author=anart]
I assume you've already read all of the recommended psychology books, especially the 'big 5' - but if not, it is highly recommended.
[/quote]
I have read them, but I think I could benefit from re-reading. Keeping myself in mind this time.
[EDIT: Fixed a messed-up quote]
anart said:
I missed the obvious for other reasons. I know that my perception of being "ganged up" on was wrong. But since "I" perceived it that way, certain programs were triggered and I had a strong emotional reaction. And that made it clear to me that E wasn't in the wrong - I was.
[quote author=anart]
Your reaction is interesting and speaks to narcissistic wounding to the point where you feel what you write IS you - it's not, it's just 'what you write'.
[/quote]
This sounds very possible. I do seem to identify deeply with things that I write. This may be because I feel so inhibited with face-to-face interactions, so writing is how I feel I can fully express myself. And when that is shown as "wrong" I react personally. I also agree that narcissistic wounding seems to fit.
[quote author=anart]
This very small thing seems to have sent you into a tailspin which is a classic symptom of narcissistic wounding and allowing the intellect to usurp the energy of the emotional center.
[/quote]
Yes, and the severity of my reaction - based on a few totally neutral words - shocked me. The emotions all came up and flooded my mind, and I wasn't sure what to do with them. I'm glad I didn't react by going on the offensive and lashing out, as I've done in the past. But those urges were there. I'd like to read more about the intellect usurping energy from the emotional center, because this sounds like it could explain a lot of my reactions and problems. Some friends have described me as seeming "emotionless" due to my lack of reaction to things. Could this be because my emotional center doesn't have enough energy available? I practically live in my head - no real social life, no leaving the house, just sitting alone like a hermit reading books and reading/writing online. So this could be a huge imbalance I need to look at.
[quote author=anart]
I assume you've already read all of the recommended psychology books, especially the 'big 5' - but if not, it is highly recommended.
[/quote]
I have read them, but I think I could benefit from re-reading. Keeping myself in mind this time.
[EDIT: Fixed a messed-up quote]
shijing
The Living Force
Re: About David Icke & James Redfield
I think you just described my dream vacation (if all of this happens at a nice beach house, that is); having said that, the situation you describe here does seem a bit lopsided and like something you might want to explore. In a way, I'm kind of impressed that you've found a way to set things up in your life so that nothing forces you out of your house, but I also doubt its conducive to your emotional health or to practicing your social interaction (which I think we need to a certain extent in order to learn and grow). So it does suggest imbalance to some extent -- is this situation anything that you would want to talk about more (maybe on your other thread instead of this one)?
Argonaut said:
I think you just described my dream vacation (if all of this happens at a nice beach house, that is); having said that, the situation you describe here does seem a bit lopsided and like something you might want to explore. In a way, I'm kind of impressed that you've found a way to set things up in your life so that nothing forces you out of your house, but I also doubt its conducive to your emotional health or to practicing your social interaction (which I think we need to a certain extent in order to learn and grow). So it does suggest imbalance to some extent -- is this situation anything that you would want to talk about more (maybe on your other thread instead of this one)?
Re: About David Icke & James Redfield
I had to scratch my head about that one for a moment, but then I realised Americans sometimes pronounce his name as Ick-e!
... assuming you're American of course...
Guardian said:I've always found it deliciously ironic that his name is "Icke"E said:
I had to scratch my head about that one for a moment, but then I realised Americans sometimes pronounce his name as Ick-e!
... assuming you're American of course...
Biomiast
Jedi Master
Re: About David Icke & James Redfield
Hi anart,
I just wanted to say, your simple words also speak to my narcissistic wounding, and they are really powerful. I read recomended books and benefited a lot( and I was aware of my problem too), yet I haven't seen the situation like you described. Thank you. And thanks to Argonaut as well.
anart said:
Hi anart,
I just wanted to say, your simple words also speak to my narcissistic wounding, and they are really powerful. I read recomended books and benefited a lot( and I was aware of my problem too), yet I haven't seen the situation like you described. Thank you. And thanks to Argonaut as well.
Re: About David Icke & James Redfield
Argonaut, we are not solitary organisms. I don't know what happened to you that led to your current way of life, but I agree with Shijing in that it can't be good for your emotional well-being to have no social interaction, and yes, my question wasn't an attack. :)
Added: Part of being in 3D is learning to manoeuvre in 3D. Those pathological types are part of the package, can't side-step them unfortunately - wise as serpents, gentle as doves. ;)
Shijing said:
Argonaut, we are not solitary organisms. I don't know what happened to you that led to your current way of life, but I agree with Shijing in that it can't be good for your emotional well-being to have no social interaction, and yes, my question wasn't an attack. :)
Added: Part of being in 3D is learning to manoeuvre in 3D. Those pathological types are part of the package, can't side-step them unfortunately - wise as serpents, gentle as doves. ;)
Guardian
The Cosmic Force
Re: About David Icke & James Redfield
LOL, yup... and I guess the correct spelling would be "Icky" but with an American accent, especially a Southern American accent...it comes out sounding the same.
E said:I had to scratch my head about that one for a moment, but then I realised Americans sometimes pronounce his name as Ick-e!
LOL, yup... and I guess the correct spelling would be "Icky" but with an American accent, especially a Southern American accent...it comes out sounding the same.
durabone
Jedi Council Member
Re: About David Icke & James Redfield
Ok, I'm back and thank you Argonaut.
Thanks, and the benefits are becoming very clear. It was the remembering Woody (my cat) thing that set me spinning. But I wrote eight pages about it over the weekend. I'll post soon. I also wrote this:
----
Spent some time thinking about the bounds of this Icke phenomenon, and I had perhaps
a little help in the form of an old rag of a magazine that I found on a train. It has
an article entitled "2012 A Time Odyssey" in it, that can viewed here:
_http://www.psychicreadermagazine.com/ (Click for the September/October issue)
This author places her arguments with emotional content, much like Icke, but the writing is less cluttered with cross-themes, as it is more singularly focussed.
My point in bringing this all up, is that something has occurred in my mind that has happened in many minds before mine. You are about to see another person go down the long lane of realizing just how damaging a self-serving, deceptive, needy being can be. And I have been down it so many times before. Only with different eyes this time. Apologies for the clutter :)
First let me propose that if I were to call an unproveable idea 'truth', say that 2012 will be the end of time, and hurl myself outwards and transmit it to others who resonate with my emotional energy, that I have in fact constructed a "Graven Image." I'm guessing that a fairly strong argument can be made that this is indeed what that particular Commandment of Moses means.
I get the impression of a little sprocket, or a little emotional yoke made of LEGO blocks that spans across certain themes and points of pain without actually having its own ground attach point. Lots of theme, little in the way of detail. Like an implant!
That said, I know of several people who respond to these types of articles with emotional conviction. When they vent about it, they are at full-force, at full-belief. They have had the experience of a light going off at the possibility of a new revelation. Ecclesiastes claims this to be vanity and nothing more. Those old writers may have been on to something.
But more prominently, lets review the idea of royalty of old crushing their vassal with taxes and burning their books, and draining their water supplies, and putting fluoride in it. The end goal of such activity may be to simply push people down on Maslo's Hierarchy of needs while you lift yourself up.
Maybe. But how many times have we read evidence of the rich and powerful calling us all boobs? How many times have we read that they need laborers to work in their factories, so it's not a good idea to educate everyone? And how many clubs have we heard of (eg. Albert Pike & the masons), who claim to have the real & sublime knowledge that is too good for the rest of us?
I believe now, though I already did, that the goal of destroying the educational system may be far more peverse than it appears. My thoughts: My friends who respond to this type of stimuli are definitely disturbed by the stimulus. My friend who has an advanced degree in Political Science however, reads articles like the one above with tenacity, hunting the veracity of every contained utterance written therein.
Who are the soldiers who we can rile to point their guns and pull the trigger where told to without thinking? Who are the religious zealots who will blindly follow another's judgement and kill a whole race of people? Who are the citizens of our country or any country who put a man like W into power and watch him financially break the back of our country and then blame it on Obama because Republican leadership wants to paint a different picture?
I am arguing that a principal means used by the few to get what they want is to manipulate us on this level. And as implied above, clever tyrannts always try and cover the bases with their own agents and themes. READ THAT: If everyone were armed like my buddy with the critical thinking skills that he learned from his PolySci degree, war would be much more difficult to sell. And that says it all. Duh.
To David Icke: Your books are published by "Bridge of Love" and you describe "Infinite Love." Please think carefully just how big of a weapon you are brandishing, and go out there and cross that Bridge of Love! Many here in America we call "asleep," actually agreed to a covenant, a division of labor. They trusted that the media and their elected officials would guard their backs, and that our system of checks and balances and a George Washington who "could not tell a lie" formed a sacrosanct deal that all would benefit from. They turned their backs on the tyrannts and greed and became writers, parents, musicians, biologists, and doctors. They took mortgages at great ripoff because they trusted.
I am pleading with you David to hear me clearly. A whole bunch of people have got caught with their pants down, and need time and help to stand up and see through the BS. They may be acting like sheep but they are not. Is your goal to put a dent in that or what? You have in fact screwed them, sir. What could be the very powerful message of heirarchical organization, manipulation, manipulative megalomaniacs, etc. like I originally heard that woke me up, is now soggy with your Reptilian theory which you present as an open and shut case. This is a clear indication to me that you are only thinking of you, and not who you are passing the information to. SHAME ON YOU!!
I am pleading with you to re-structure your format back to the basics, circa "And the Truth Shall Set You Free," and present the reptilian thing as allegory & metaphor and use it as humor to lighten the mood. The whole idea is much more powerful that way. It is a very effective tool for showing how deep the darkness could be, and I beg you to use it as such, and DROP the approach that now makes it the central tenet of your work - weakening the real message.
If you simply look at who is around you, and how important you can be to them, is that not reason enough to sit down with them and understand how to meter your message across in such a way that it is more effective? You would personally reap rewards far greater doing this than you ever will standing up there in the spotlight. PLEASE: THINK about what you are doing.
(And if you are a complict participant in causing cognitive dissonance, go into a closet and suck eggs!)
Ok, I'm back and thank you Argonaut.
Thanks, and the benefits are becoming very clear. It was the remembering Woody (my cat) thing that set me spinning. But I wrote eight pages about it over the weekend. I'll post soon. I also wrote this:
----
Spent some time thinking about the bounds of this Icke phenomenon, and I had perhaps
a little help in the form of an old rag of a magazine that I found on a train. It has
an article entitled "2012 A Time Odyssey" in it, that can viewed here:
_http://www.psychicreadermagazine.com/ (Click for the September/October issue)
This author places her arguments with emotional content, much like Icke, but the writing is less cluttered with cross-themes, as it is more singularly focussed.
My point in bringing this all up, is that something has occurred in my mind that has happened in many minds before mine. You are about to see another person go down the long lane of realizing just how damaging a self-serving, deceptive, needy being can be. And I have been down it so many times before. Only with different eyes this time. Apologies for the clutter :)
First let me propose that if I were to call an unproveable idea 'truth', say that 2012 will be the end of time, and hurl myself outwards and transmit it to others who resonate with my emotional energy, that I have in fact constructed a "Graven Image." I'm guessing that a fairly strong argument can be made that this is indeed what that particular Commandment of Moses means.
I get the impression of a little sprocket, or a little emotional yoke made of LEGO blocks that spans across certain themes and points of pain without actually having its own ground attach point. Lots of theme, little in the way of detail. Like an implant!
That said, I know of several people who respond to these types of articles with emotional conviction. When they vent about it, they are at full-force, at full-belief. They have had the experience of a light going off at the possibility of a new revelation. Ecclesiastes claims this to be vanity and nothing more. Those old writers may have been on to something.
But more prominently, lets review the idea of royalty of old crushing their vassal with taxes and burning their books, and draining their water supplies, and putting fluoride in it. The end goal of such activity may be to simply push people down on Maslo's Hierarchy of needs while you lift yourself up.
Maybe. But how many times have we read evidence of the rich and powerful calling us all boobs? How many times have we read that they need laborers to work in their factories, so it's not a good idea to educate everyone? And how many clubs have we heard of (eg. Albert Pike & the masons), who claim to have the real & sublime knowledge that is too good for the rest of us?
I believe now, though I already did, that the goal of destroying the educational system may be far more peverse than it appears. My thoughts: My friends who respond to this type of stimuli are definitely disturbed by the stimulus. My friend who has an advanced degree in Political Science however, reads articles like the one above with tenacity, hunting the veracity of every contained utterance written therein.
Who are the soldiers who we can rile to point their guns and pull the trigger where told to without thinking? Who are the religious zealots who will blindly follow another's judgement and kill a whole race of people? Who are the citizens of our country or any country who put a man like W into power and watch him financially break the back of our country and then blame it on Obama because Republican leadership wants to paint a different picture?
I am arguing that a principal means used by the few to get what they want is to manipulate us on this level. And as implied above, clever tyrannts always try and cover the bases with their own agents and themes. READ THAT: If everyone were armed like my buddy with the critical thinking skills that he learned from his PolySci degree, war would be much more difficult to sell. And that says it all. Duh.
To David Icke: Your books are published by "Bridge of Love" and you describe "Infinite Love." Please think carefully just how big of a weapon you are brandishing, and go out there and cross that Bridge of Love! Many here in America we call "asleep," actually agreed to a covenant, a division of labor. They trusted that the media and their elected officials would guard their backs, and that our system of checks and balances and a George Washington who "could not tell a lie" formed a sacrosanct deal that all would benefit from. They turned their backs on the tyrannts and greed and became writers, parents, musicians, biologists, and doctors. They took mortgages at great ripoff because they trusted.
I am pleading with you David to hear me clearly. A whole bunch of people have got caught with their pants down, and need time and help to stand up and see through the BS. They may be acting like sheep but they are not. Is your goal to put a dent in that or what? You have in fact screwed them, sir. What could be the very powerful message of heirarchical organization, manipulation, manipulative megalomaniacs, etc. like I originally heard that woke me up, is now soggy with your Reptilian theory which you present as an open and shut case. This is a clear indication to me that you are only thinking of you, and not who you are passing the information to. SHAME ON YOU!!
I am pleading with you to re-structure your format back to the basics, circa "And the Truth Shall Set You Free," and present the reptilian thing as allegory & metaphor and use it as humor to lighten the mood. The whole idea is much more powerful that way. It is a very effective tool for showing how deep the darkness could be, and I beg you to use it as such, and DROP the approach that now makes it the central tenet of your work - weakening the real message.
If you simply look at who is around you, and how important you can be to them, is that not reason enough to sit down with them and understand how to meter your message across in such a way that it is more effective? You would personally reap rewards far greater doing this than you ever will standing up there in the spotlight. PLEASE: THINK about what you are doing.
(And if you are a complict participant in causing cognitive dissonance, go into a closet and suck eggs!)
Argonaut
Jedi Master
Re: About David Icke & James Redfield
I don't know what happened either, but I may be starting to figure it out. I've always known there were traumas related to my upbringing, but I didn't realize the depths of it.
I'm glad you're back. I look forward to your post. :)
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
I also wrote this:
[/quote]
I'll respond to this more tomorrow. Right now I need to get some sleep.
E said:
I don't know what happened either, but I may be starting to figure it out. I've always known there were traumas related to my upbringing, but I didn't realize the depths of it.
I'm glad you're back. I look forward to your post. :)
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
I also wrote this:
[/quote]
I'll respond to this more tomorrow. Right now I need to get some sleep.
Mountain Crown
The Living Force
Re: About David Icke & James Redfield
Argonaut,
How much of your thinking here has taken into account that 4D STS has the ability to install thoughts and then create circumstances tailored to validate them?
Argonaut,
How much of your thinking here has taken into account that 4D STS has the ability to install thoughts and then create circumstances tailored to validate them?
Argonaut
Jedi Master
Re: About David Icke & James Redfield
The first scenario could involve Icke being manipulated by humans, 4D STS, or (most likely) a combination. I think that all of Icke's meaningful coincidences, fulfilled predictions, and high strangeness may have actually happened. And if so, 4D STS interference is the only explanation that fits. The second scenario doesn't rely on this so much, but still allows for it. "Mundane" circumstances can be engineered by 4D STS as well. I think that they've been involved in shaping Icke's thoughts and life, no matter what Icke personally thinks he's doing. The overall package is just too perfect and insidious to be a purely human disinfo campaign, osit.
One thing that's so sad about Icke's case: His mindset was so messed up that he almost interpreted his life accurately. He actually stated that he had given up his free will, that "other forces" had been manipulating him, etc. But he chose to see all of that as positive. Near the end of the autobiography, Icke wonders if he may qualify as an "angel":
As Ark might say, Icke "isn't even wrong" here about the nature of his circumstances, assuming his account is true. He just completely reverses the significance of it all. The Icke of today doesn't seem too comfortable with the things he said back then, because he's clearly been trying to bury it. He doesn't want people to look at it. So Icke's current mind might understand, at some level, that his past interpretations "give the game away" to those who pay attention. Now that he's more closely aligned with 4D STS, his goals may also be more closely aligned with theirs. He's possibly becoming like them, willing to manipulate and deceive his readers for the sake of his mission. Who knows what lies he tells himself to justify this, but it's very possible that 4D STS has co-opted much of his thinking process at this point.
Jerry said:
The first scenario could involve Icke being manipulated by humans, 4D STS, or (most likely) a combination. I think that all of Icke's meaningful coincidences, fulfilled predictions, and high strangeness may have actually happened. And if so, 4D STS interference is the only explanation that fits. The second scenario doesn't rely on this so much, but still allows for it. "Mundane" circumstances can be engineered by 4D STS as well. I think that they've been involved in shaping Icke's thoughts and life, no matter what Icke personally thinks he's doing. The overall package is just too perfect and insidious to be a purely human disinfo campaign, osit.
One thing that's so sad about Icke's case: His mindset was so messed up that he almost interpreted his life accurately. He actually stated that he had given up his free will, that "other forces" had been manipulating him, etc. But he chose to see all of that as positive. Near the end of the autobiography, Icke wonders if he may qualify as an "angel":
David Icke said:
As Ark might say, Icke "isn't even wrong" here about the nature of his circumstances, assuming his account is true. He just completely reverses the significance of it all. The Icke of today doesn't seem too comfortable with the things he said back then, because he's clearly been trying to bury it. He doesn't want people to look at it. So Icke's current mind might understand, at some level, that his past interpretations "give the game away" to those who pay attention. Now that he's more closely aligned with 4D STS, his goals may also be more closely aligned with theirs. He's possibly becoming like them, willing to manipulate and deceive his readers for the sake of his mission. Who knows what lies he tells himself to justify this, but it's very possible that 4D STS has co-opted much of his thinking process at this point.
Argonaut
Jedi Master
Re: About David Icke & James Redfield
I agree, that article does have a similar feel to Icke's writings. Especially his early stuff.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
My point in bringing this all up, is that something has occurred in my mind that has happened in many minds before mine. You are about to see another person go down the long lane of realizing just how damaging a self-serving, deceptive, needy being can be. And I have been down it so many times before. Only with different eyes this time. Apologies for the clutter :)
[/quote]
It looks like you've had a real epiphany. I know what you mean about going down the same road many times, yet doing so "with different eyes this time." That's been happening to me a lot lately too. Oh, and there's no need to apologize for clutter. If it's there, it's there. The important thing is that you're learning to look for it, and in this forum we're glad to "mirror" and help you do that. :) And fwiw, I noticed very little clutter in what you wrote here.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
First let me propose that if I were to call an unproveable idea 'truth', say that 2012 will be the end of time, and hurl myself outwards and transmit it to others who resonate with my emotional energy, that I have in fact constructed a "Graven Image."
[/quote]
That sounds possible, in the sense that a meme can take on a life of its own once it's exposed to enough "like minds."
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
I'm guessing that a fairly strong argument can be made that this is indeed what that particular Commandment of Moses means.
[/quote]
Possibly, I don't know.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
I get the impression of a little sprocket, or a little emotional yoke made of LEGO blocks that spans across certain themes and points of pain without actually having its own ground attach point. Lots of theme, little in the way of detail. Like an implant!
[/quote]
This is the closest you came to clutter in your post, because it's a mixed metaphor and hard to follow (sprocket? LEGO blocks? implant?). I think I still get your essential meaning - but that's because "lots of theme, little in the way of detail" says it very well. So you do have the ability to write clearly and consisely, because you did! :) But you padded it with all those unneccesary "extras." And that obscured your point somewhat. I'm guessing the symbols you use create a strong image in your mind, so you feel that conveying them to us is helpful. And using symbolism/metaphor CAN be helpful. But when we use such terms, they generally have an understood meaning for all of us ("sacred cow," "sleep," "machine," etc). Since you like to express your thoughts using metaphor, maybe this is something you can examine - what metaphors/symbols have meaning for you personally, but may not be understood by others? Are there other, more universal, symbols you can substitute to express the same ideas?
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
That said, I know of several people who respond to these types of articles with emotional conviction. When they vent about it, they are at full-force, at full-belief. They have had the experience of a light going off at the possibility of a new revelation. Ecclesiastes claims this to be vanity and nothing more. Those old writers may have been on to something.
[/quote]
I think they were on to something. As Mdme de Salzmann said:
All is indeed vanity for those who are asleep. Yet people fall in love with their lies, their self-comforting illusions. So they can read something that "feels right" and just run with it, forming a belief based on nothing at all.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
But more prominently, lets review the idea of royalty of old crushing their vassal with taxes and burning their books, and draining their water supplies, and putting fluoride in it. The end goal of such activity may be to simply push people down on Maslo's Hierarchy of needs while you lift yourself up.
[/quote]
Definitely. If people's minds are kept at the bottom - focused on basic bodily needs - they have no drive or energy for seeking the truth.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
Maybe. But how many times have we read evidence of the rich and powerful calling us all boobs? How many times have we read that they need laborers to work in their factories, so it's not a good idea to educate everyone? And how many clubs have we heard of (eg. Albert Pike & the masons), who claim to have the real & sublime knowledge that is too good for the rest of us?
[/quote]
Constantly. The term "elite" accurately describes how they view themselves compared to us. But they're only "elite" because they've chosen to put the rest of society in the dark. It's not a natural order, like they claim to believe.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
I believe now, though I already did, that the goal of destroying the educational system may be far more peverse than it appears. My thoughts: My friends who respond to this type of stimuli are definitely disturbed by the stimulus. My friend who has an advanced degree in Political Science however, reads articles like the one above with tenacity, hunting the veracity of every contained utterance written therein.
[/quote]
If one is trained to think critically, it's easier to see through the lies. So yes, the dumbing down of education is deliberate. As for your Political Scientist friend, it sounds like he/she has learned to critically examine things. Of course, even people like this can have biases, sacred cows, and programs, and they're still asleep. But at least they have the right mental "equipment" to some degree, so certain programming won't "take" like it does with others.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
Who are the soldiers who we can rile to point their guns and pull the trigger where told to without thinking? Who are the religious zealots who will blindly follow another's judgement and kill a whole race of people? Who are the citizens of our country or any country who put a man like W into power and watch him financially break the back of our country and then blame it on Obama because Republican leadership wants to paint a different picture?
[/quote]
They are machines in a deep state of sleep. This is natural. What seems unnatural is how the PTB have installed certain programming in people. But in the end, even this is natural in an STS world full of machines.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
I am arguing that a principal means used by the few to get what they want is to manipulate us on this level. And as implied above, clever tyrannts always try and cover the bases with their own agents and themes. READ THAT: If everyone were armed like my buddy with the critical thinking skills that he learned from his PolySci degree, war would be much more difficult to sell. And that says it all. Duh.
[/quote]
Exactly.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
To David Icke: [...]
[/quote]
I think your message to Icke would have little to no effect. I feel for you, though, because I've interally pleaded in much the same way while studying him. Also, his disinfo goes far deeper than the Reptilian thing. He added that later (along with the conspiracy angle), but it was like "the icing on the cake." The essence of his disinfo was already there. If anything, the new stuff serves to hide the New Age disinfo more effectively. Because it was pretty blatant in his earlier writings. Plus now he can pretend to be a researcher, rather than just a glorified New Age guru. It adds credibility.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
If you simply look at who is around you, and how important you can be to them, is that not reason enough to sit down with them and understand how to meter your message across in such a way that it is more effective? You would personally reap rewards far greater doing this than you ever will standing up there in the spotlight. PLEASE: THINK about what you are doing.
[/quote]
The thing is, Icke is probably incapable of seeing a reason to alter his approach. We and David Icke are using completely different dictionaries. External considering and strategic enclosure don't even exist in the one he's reading from. "Speak your truth, and to hell with the consequences" is his motto, or at least the motto he wants his readers to absorb.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
(And if you are a complict participant in causing cognitive dissonance, go into a closet and suck eggs!)
[/quote]
My sentiments exactly!
nut'n purrsnl said:
I agree, that article does have a similar feel to Icke's writings. Especially his early stuff.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
My point in bringing this all up, is that something has occurred in my mind that has happened in many minds before mine. You are about to see another person go down the long lane of realizing just how damaging a self-serving, deceptive, needy being can be. And I have been down it so many times before. Only with different eyes this time. Apologies for the clutter :)
[/quote]
It looks like you've had a real epiphany. I know what you mean about going down the same road many times, yet doing so "with different eyes this time." That's been happening to me a lot lately too. Oh, and there's no need to apologize for clutter. If it's there, it's there. The important thing is that you're learning to look for it, and in this forum we're glad to "mirror" and help you do that. :) And fwiw, I noticed very little clutter in what you wrote here.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
First let me propose that if I were to call an unproveable idea 'truth', say that 2012 will be the end of time, and hurl myself outwards and transmit it to others who resonate with my emotional energy, that I have in fact constructed a "Graven Image."
[/quote]
That sounds possible, in the sense that a meme can take on a life of its own once it's exposed to enough "like minds."
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
I'm guessing that a fairly strong argument can be made that this is indeed what that particular Commandment of Moses means.
[/quote]
Possibly, I don't know.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
I get the impression of a little sprocket, or a little emotional yoke made of LEGO blocks that spans across certain themes and points of pain without actually having its own ground attach point. Lots of theme, little in the way of detail. Like an implant!
[/quote]
This is the closest you came to clutter in your post, because it's a mixed metaphor and hard to follow (sprocket? LEGO blocks? implant?). I think I still get your essential meaning - but that's because "lots of theme, little in the way of detail" says it very well. So you do have the ability to write clearly and consisely, because you did! :) But you padded it with all those unneccesary "extras." And that obscured your point somewhat. I'm guessing the symbols you use create a strong image in your mind, so you feel that conveying them to us is helpful. And using symbolism/metaphor CAN be helpful. But when we use such terms, they generally have an understood meaning for all of us ("sacred cow," "sleep," "machine," etc). Since you like to express your thoughts using metaphor, maybe this is something you can examine - what metaphors/symbols have meaning for you personally, but may not be understood by others? Are there other, more universal, symbols you can substitute to express the same ideas?
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
That said, I know of several people who respond to these types of articles with emotional conviction. When they vent about it, they are at full-force, at full-belief. They have had the experience of a light going off at the possibility of a new revelation. Ecclesiastes claims this to be vanity and nothing more. Those old writers may have been on to something.
[/quote]
I think they were on to something. As Mdme de Salzmann said:
All is indeed vanity for those who are asleep. Yet people fall in love with their lies, their self-comforting illusions. So they can read something that "feels right" and just run with it, forming a belief based on nothing at all.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
But more prominently, lets review the idea of royalty of old crushing their vassal with taxes and burning their books, and draining their water supplies, and putting fluoride in it. The end goal of such activity may be to simply push people down on Maslo's Hierarchy of needs while you lift yourself up.
[/quote]
Definitely. If people's minds are kept at the bottom - focused on basic bodily needs - they have no drive or energy for seeking the truth.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
Maybe. But how many times have we read evidence of the rich and powerful calling us all boobs? How many times have we read that they need laborers to work in their factories, so it's not a good idea to educate everyone? And how many clubs have we heard of (eg. Albert Pike & the masons), who claim to have the real & sublime knowledge that is too good for the rest of us?
[/quote]
Constantly. The term "elite" accurately describes how they view themselves compared to us. But they're only "elite" because they've chosen to put the rest of society in the dark. It's not a natural order, like they claim to believe.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
I believe now, though I already did, that the goal of destroying the educational system may be far more peverse than it appears. My thoughts: My friends who respond to this type of stimuli are definitely disturbed by the stimulus. My friend who has an advanced degree in Political Science however, reads articles like the one above with tenacity, hunting the veracity of every contained utterance written therein.
[/quote]
If one is trained to think critically, it's easier to see through the lies. So yes, the dumbing down of education is deliberate. As for your Political Scientist friend, it sounds like he/she has learned to critically examine things. Of course, even people like this can have biases, sacred cows, and programs, and they're still asleep. But at least they have the right mental "equipment" to some degree, so certain programming won't "take" like it does with others.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
Who are the soldiers who we can rile to point their guns and pull the trigger where told to without thinking? Who are the religious zealots who will blindly follow another's judgement and kill a whole race of people? Who are the citizens of our country or any country who put a man like W into power and watch him financially break the back of our country and then blame it on Obama because Republican leadership wants to paint a different picture?
[/quote]
They are machines in a deep state of sleep. This is natural. What seems unnatural is how the PTB have installed certain programming in people. But in the end, even this is natural in an STS world full of machines.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
I am arguing that a principal means used by the few to get what they want is to manipulate us on this level. And as implied above, clever tyrannts always try and cover the bases with their own agents and themes. READ THAT: If everyone were armed like my buddy with the critical thinking skills that he learned from his PolySci degree, war would be much more difficult to sell. And that says it all. Duh.
[/quote]
Exactly.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
To David Icke: [...]
[/quote]
I think your message to Icke would have little to no effect. I feel for you, though, because I've interally pleaded in much the same way while studying him. Also, his disinfo goes far deeper than the Reptilian thing. He added that later (along with the conspiracy angle), but it was like "the icing on the cake." The essence of his disinfo was already there. If anything, the new stuff serves to hide the New Age disinfo more effectively. Because it was pretty blatant in his earlier writings. Plus now he can pretend to be a researcher, rather than just a glorified New Age guru. It adds credibility.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
If you simply look at who is around you, and how important you can be to them, is that not reason enough to sit down with them and understand how to meter your message across in such a way that it is more effective? You would personally reap rewards far greater doing this than you ever will standing up there in the spotlight. PLEASE: THINK about what you are doing.
[/quote]
The thing is, Icke is probably incapable of seeing a reason to alter his approach. We and David Icke are using completely different dictionaries. External considering and strategic enclosure don't even exist in the one he's reading from. "Speak your truth, and to hell with the consequences" is his motto, or at least the motto he wants his readers to absorb.
[quote author=nut'n purrsnl]
(And if you are a complict participant in causing cognitive dissonance, go into a closet and suck eggs!)
[/quote]
My sentiments exactly!
durabone
Jedi Council Member
Re: About David Icke & James Redfield
Thank you again Argonaut.
[quote author=Argonaut]what metaphors/symbols have meaning for you personally, but may not be understood by others?[/quote]
Oops spent too much time winging out in Silicon Valley coffee shops, or maybe it was the surf, teehee.
These visuals that sum things up for me are hard to relate well, I see. If I do attempt. It can be truly
noise now that think about it, unless a detailed explanation is warranted. ok.
[quote author=Argonaut]I think your message to Icke would have little to no effect. [/quote]
Yup, and many years of struggling with what to say were distilled into this one post. That is very useful
to me for the next time I try and dissuade one of my believer friends. Usually when I commit to a topic
this thoroughly, I use the printer and bind the ref mat'ls into a ring binder, During that process I hope to
re-read the other's sentiments now that my head has closure and is not buzzing, so much.
[quote author=Argonaut]He added that later (along with the conspiracy angle), but it was like "the icing on the cake." The essence of his disinfo was already there. If anything, the new stuff serves to hide the New Age disinfo more effectively. Because it was pretty blatant in his earlier writings.[/quote]
Interesting. Perhaps it was new age disinfo that hit me over the head so many years ago.
I'd really like to come to grips with the scope of which themes are truly considered "New Age disinfo."
I don't know if you read my review of the pantheon laid out by Stan Deyo in his 1978 "Cosmic Conspiracy"
(http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=10474.0) but the scope of that work is very much like
Icke, plus sprinkle in few bible verses. Don't think I have we ever seen Icke reference Deyo.
Thank you again Argonaut.
[quote author=Argonaut]what metaphors/symbols have meaning for you personally, but may not be understood by others?[/quote]
Oops spent too much time winging out in Silicon Valley coffee shops, or maybe it was the surf, teehee.
These visuals that sum things up for me are hard to relate well, I see. If I do attempt. It can be truly
noise now that think about it, unless a detailed explanation is warranted. ok.
[quote author=Argonaut]I think your message to Icke would have little to no effect. [/quote]
Yup, and many years of struggling with what to say were distilled into this one post. That is very useful
to me for the next time I try and dissuade one of my believer friends. Usually when I commit to a topic
this thoroughly, I use the printer and bind the ref mat'ls into a ring binder, During that process I hope to
re-read the other's sentiments now that my head has closure and is not buzzing, so much.
[quote author=Argonaut]He added that later (along with the conspiracy angle), but it was like "the icing on the cake." The essence of his disinfo was already there. If anything, the new stuff serves to hide the New Age disinfo more effectively. Because it was pretty blatant in his earlier writings.[/quote]
Interesting. Perhaps it was new age disinfo that hit me over the head so many years ago.
I'd really like to come to grips with the scope of which themes are truly considered "New Age disinfo."
I don't know if you read my review of the pantheon laid out by Stan Deyo in his 1978 "Cosmic Conspiracy"
(http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=10474.0) but the scope of that work is very much like
Icke, plus sprinkle in few bible verses. Don't think I have we ever seen Icke reference Deyo.