About David Icke & James Redfield

[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Remember that one's intellect doesn't always relate to the beliefs one will accept. In fact, a lot of Icke's followers could be considered fairly intelligent people.

It has also been my experience that a lot of people who name-drop him in conversation hardly know anything about him. They might have read one of his books somewhere along the line, and were impressed with certain things he said. Even like the one poster in the thread from the Icke forum I referenced earlier, 3500 posts and he hasn't read any of Icke's books.

Also remember that many of these people stumble upon these things for the first time, the kind of people who has never heard for example that 9/11 is an inside job. They stumble onto one of his books in a bookstore and are attracted to it, because deep down everybody knows something is very wrong. Before long they're on his website, and on the surface Icke looks like a real 'good-doer', talking about evil vaccinations, symphasizing with the Palestinians, exposing the banking elite etc. etc.

That's why what we're doing here is so important, because his books are in everyones faces, and he's all over the web, and he has no solutions. Obviously he has no effective solutions, because he's COINTELPRO, he's a trap, who deliberately ignores the essential things (psychopathology and Gurdjieff) and everyone he links to on his website is also COINTELPRO. They have all joined hands now, him, Alex Jones, Project Camelot etc. etc. the whole cabal.

If this thread benefits 'one' person, it's all been worth it.

 

[Argonaut]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Remember that one's intellect doesn't always relate to the beliefs one will accept. In fact, a lot of Icke's followers could be considered fairly intelligent people.

It has also been my experience that a lot of people who name-drop him in conversation hardly know anything about him. They might have read one book of his somewhere along the line, and were impressed with certain things he said. Even like the one poster in the thread from the Icke forum I referenced earlier, 3500 posts and he hasn't read any of Icke's books.

Good point. This lack of knowledge applies to a lot of people who have "opinions" about something, so why should Icke followers be any different?

[quote author=E]
Also remember that many of these people stumble upon these things for the first time, the kind of people who has never heard for example that 9/11 is an inside job. They stumble onto one of his books in a bookstore and are attracted to it, because deep down everybody knows something is very wrong. Before long they're on his website, and on the surface Icke looks like a real 'good-doer', talking about evil vaccinations, symphasizing with the Palestinians, exposing the banking elite etc. etc.
[/quote]

This is the exact process I went through. I started learning about 9/11, and one of the articles linked to David Icke's website. And it was downhill from there. Thankfully I discovered Laura and the C's (by accident) before I was too far gone. And even then it still took me a long time to "detox" my mind from his influence.

[quote author=E]
That's why what we're doing here is so important, because his books are in everyones faces, and his all over the web, and he has no solutions.
[/quote]

Yes, and most of his opposition consists of: "He says alien lizards control the world! He's obviously nuts/lying/controlled/using metaphor/etc." Which never dissuaded me, and wouldn't put a dent in the beliefs of any Icke follower. They're well aware that those "in the box" think Icke is full of it. So something like this thread was sorely needed.

[quote author=E]
Obviously he has no effective solutions, because he's COINTELPRO, he's a trap, who deliberately ignores the essential things (psychopathology and Gurdjieff) and everyone he links to on his website is also COINTELPRO. They have all joined hands now, him, Alex Jones, Project Camelot etc. etc. the whole cabal.
[/quote]

Maybe this unification is due to the nearness of the Wave? They do seem to be stepping it up a notch all of a sudden.

[quote author=E]
If this thread benefits 'one' person, it's all been worth it.
[/quote]

Totally. Although I already know of a few it seems to have benefited, you and I included. And that's just the ones we're aware of.

 

[durabone]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Thanks you two, again. EDIT: missed your last post E, and I have to go.

[quote author=Argonaut]Your cat? What sort of reversal are you talking about here?[/quote]

An amazing one where a rescued 2D critter nasty nasty, became one of the most externally considerate animals I have ever known - suddenly
after five years. There were many ways I tried to educate him before the returns started. That was a lot of lessons. My neighbor helped also.
The loss of him is still a little too close, someday I may write it up: "Little spirit I met along the way. Lucky day, what a lucky day!"

[quote author=Argonaut]A "smart" machine is still a machine.[/quote]

You reminded earlier about G saying that we are needing to do a lot of work on our own before we can begin the Work. If this Icke phenomena
is an example of engineering our minds away from doing our work or maybe it is a means of cluttering our attempts to gain clarity, then ouch.
Whether/how I need to think in terms of a requiem for some old habits & relationships will take some time for me to figure out in light of these
ideas. I also might benefit from thinking about the ins & outs of how I responded to Icke years ago.

And as many have pointed out, the evolution from the simple Christian judge not/forgive all (very hard to live up to BTW) through years of learning
about co-dependency, narcissism, psychopathy, etc. is often complicated by love for many in different states around us. I'll leave that there for now.

I'm not getting how this symbolizes emotional manipulation, can you explain?

Not emotional manipulation, but the struggles of just about everyone I know who is questing to try and break out of the mold that they/the world made when they were younger, or misinformed, or misled, etc.

That's how some might justify it, but a little cyanide can poison the whole drink. Besides, with Icke it's more like only 10% is NOT disinfo.

It's a quip. This 10% quote has been floating in my head for a while, to quote Icke, "Nothing to worry about..."

[quote author=Argonaut]I'm not clear on what you mean by this, can you explain?[/quote]

Another quip, and right now my use of figures of speech, etc., in a multi-language setting needs review. I have also developed some sloppy posting habits, or maybe I had them all along, and just realize it now. Either way, I feel more respect for all of you here over time, and realize that more diligence and care are needed.

[quote author=potamus]Inconsistifier pre-engineering.[/quote]

Engineered Induced Cognitive Dissonance foisted on your enemy/vassal as a means of corrupting them and weakening them!

[quote author=Argonaut]can be much worse than the obvious kind[/quote]

Like the old saying: Mental abuse can be far worse than physical abuse. It's also interesting that thinking about this thread, newcomers might be like the frog who lived because he was thrown into already boiling water, but we who experienced Icke during our earlier awakening might be more like the frog who didn't jump out as the temp rose & perished!

The entire disclose.tv site seems to be down at the moment, so maybe you can try again later.

Thanks E

I saw it as Mari Shawsun using and manipulating Icke

I've heard that from way outside too, but not the name, just a woman who some said was cointelpro. My comment comes from the place where I see Icke as not being very aware if he is letting himself get waylaid by this kind of basic corruption. Calling her a monster is perfectly in fitting with a fear-based response, and so much drama that one cannot see straight. Trauma? My point about her whether she was toxic or not, is that if she had true feelings for him, then seeing so much about unconditional love as a theme everyday while her 'man' equivocated with her & his wife could be very tough. Of course she might have been very powerful, and Icke might have had a suppressing EM beam aimed at his head or something that suppressed his normal response... we'll probably never know.

Showing him things is fine, but don't "beat him over the head" with it or keep pushing your position.

There is plenty for me to focus about right here, right now :D

 

[Argonaut]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Thanks you two, again. EDIT: missed your last post E, and I have to go.

[quote author=Argonaut]Your cat? What sort of reversal are you talking about here?

An amazing one where a rescued 2D critter nasty nasty, became one of the most externally considerate animals I have ever known - suddenly
after five years. There were many ways I tried to educate him before the returns started. That was a lot of lessons. My neighbor helped also.
The loss of him is still a little too close, someday I may write it up: "Little spirit I met along the way. Lucky day, what a lucky day!"

[/quote]

Yes, that is an amazing reversal. Seeing hope for Icke based on that is pretty iffy, though. But I do understand where you were coming from. :)

[quote author=potamus]
You reminded earlier about G saying that we are needing to do a lot of work on our own before we can begin the Work. If this Icke phenomena
is an example of engineering our minds away from doing our work or maybe it is a means of cluttering our attempts to gain clarity, then ouch.
[/quote]

You're right on both counts. That's exactly where believing Icke leads.

[quote author=potamus]
Whether/how I need to think in terms of a requiem for some old habits & relationships will take some time for me to figure out in light of these
ideas. I also might benefit from thinking about the ins & outs of how I responded to Icke years ago.
[/quote]

Those are good things to look at. It can also help you empathize with those who still follow him. Or any belief system.

[quote author=potamus]
And as many have pointed out, the evolution from the simple Christian judge not/forgive all (very hard to live up to BTW) through years of learning
about co-dependency, narcissism, psychopathy, etc. is often complicated by love for many in different states around us. I'll leave that there for now.
[/quote]

I wouldn't say that understanding is complicated by love, although it can defintely feel that way. You'd like to help those you care about, yet sometimes there's no clear way to help. And often they don't even want help.

[quote author=potamus]

I'm not getting how this symbolizes emotional manipulation, can you explain?

Not emotional manipulation, but the struggles of just about everyone I know who is questing to try and break out of the mold that they/the world made when they were younger, or misinformed, or misled, etc.

[/quote]

Ah, ok. Now it makes sense. :)

[quote author=potamus]

That's how some might justify it, but a little cyanide can poison the whole drink. Besides, with Icke it's more like only 10% is NOT disinfo.

It's a quip. This 10% quote has been floating in my head for a while, to quote Icke, "Nothing to worry about..."

[/quote]

I figured that you weren't actually thinking this way. I responded like I did because some people might really say that and mean it.

[quote author=potamus]

[quote author=Argonaut]I'm not clear on what you mean by this, can you explain?[/quote]

Another quip, and right now my use of figures of speech, etc., in a multi-language setting needs review.

[/quote]

That would be a good thing to review, in the interests of external considering. Sometimes quips, jargon, and such can be confusing if there's no clarification, even to a native English-speaker.

[quote author=potamus]

I have also developed some sloppy posting habits, or maybe I had them all along, and just realize it now. Either way, I feel more respect for all of you here over time, and realize that more diligence and care are needed.

[/quote]

Believe me, I know all about sloppy posting habits. I started out doing that myself and I'm still catching it sometimes. Being clear and concise can take more effort than one might think. But I'm glad you're seeing the need to put in the effort.

[quote author=potamus]

[quote author=potamus]Inconsistifier pre-engineering.[/quote]

Engineered Induced Cognitive Dissonance foisted on your enemy/vassal as a means of corrupting them and weakening them!

[/quote]

I agree; cognitive dissonance can be a very effective tool of manipulation.

[quote author=potamus]
It's also interesting that thinking about this thread, newcomers might be like the frog who lived because he was thrown into already boiling water, but we who experienced Icke during our earlier awakening might be more like the frog who didn't jump out as the temp rose & perished!
[/quote]

Well, thankfully some of us were able to listen when others told us the water was hotter than we thought! :)

[quote author=potamus]

I saw it as Mari Shawsun using and manipulating Icke

I've heard that from way outside too, but not the name, just a woman who some said was cointelpro.

[/quote]

You may be thinking of Arizona Wilder, the woman who claimed that she took part in blood rituals with the British royals, and saw them shape-shift. Several people have called her COINTELPRO.

[quote author=potamus]
My comment comes from the place where I see Icke as not being very aware if he is letting himself get waylaid by this kind of basic corruption.
[/quote]

Well if that's the case then I misunderstood your comment about "showing respect for women."

[quote author=potamus]
Calling her a monster is perfectly in fitting with a fear-based response, and so much drama that one cannot see straight.
[/quote]

Well, Icke didn't call Mari a monster. Just the opposite. He described the things she did, but then justified it as being a needed learning experience for him, his wife, and Mari. he also claimed to empathize with her pain while she lived with them. But if his account is accurate, viewing her as a monster might've been closer to the truth.

[quote author=potamus]
Trauma? My point about her whether she was toxic or not, is that if she had true feelings for him, then seeing so much about unconditional love as a theme everyday while her 'man' equivocated with her & his wife could be very tough. Of course she might have been very powerful, and Icke might have had a suppressing EM beam aimed at his head or something that suppressed his normal response... we'll probably never know.
[/quote]

It does seem like Mari had a desire to make Icke her "man," although she went about it in a very pathological way. Reading between the lines, it almost looks like Mari may have been responsible for the "automatic writing" that got him into bed with her. But since Icke didn't know, and never tried to know, then neither can we. He did seek an explanation from various psychics, but you can't put much stock in that. Even Icke said the psychics all gave different answers. But then he justified this by saying that all of the explanations were probably true in some way.

 

[Argonaut]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Since Icke is so big on coincidences, I thought I'd share an odd series of events which happened to me a couple of days after I first discovered him (early Nov 2005). After studying how Icke's life was directed by signs and synchronicities, and how he promotes such things as proof of being on the right track, what happened seems to have ominous implications.

I had ridden my bicycle to a large antique mall in my town, and while browsing I came across a few interesting items. First I
saw an old comic-book adaption of the H.G. Wells novel "The First Men in the Moon." The image on the front depicted astronauts encountering a group of reptilian humanoids on the moon. I was intrigued by this, seeing as I'd recently "learned" from Icke that the moon was linked to the reptilians and may even be one of their ships. Shortly afterwards I noticed an 1980's LIFE magazine special on the Royal family. Prince Charles and Princess Di were on the cover, whom I'd also just "learned the truth" about from Icke. After more browsing around I saw a collection of political campaign buttons. One of them was extremely ironic, considering my new-found "knowledge" - It was a cartoon of John Kerry in shining armor, standing on top of a scaly, green G.W. Bush! The caption beneath read "Kerry, the Dragon-Slayer." Maybe this stuff just stood out for me because the Icke material was on my mind, but it all felt very strange. It was like the antique mall was some sort of "David Icke showcase."

Shortly after I left the store, an unmarked green military plane buzzed right over me as I rode my bike. It flew quite a distance away, then I noticed it starting to circle back around. And after I'd ridden another mile or so it was suddenly flying directly over me again. This creeped me out, but I was also annoyed. I felt that "they knew" what I was learning and were trying to intimidate me. So to prove I wasn't afraid, I started grumbling (out loud) about fascism, control, and "heartless reptile bastards." I even deliberately yelled out "REPTILES!" I figured that would show 'em. I was completely caught up in assumption and fantasy. Like I said earlier in the thread, I barely recognize the guy I was then.

Immediately after I yelled, I rode past a parked pickup truck with a bumper sticker which said "Montauk: The End." I had no clue what that meant, but I "knew" from Icke that Montauk was strongly connected with the reptilians in some way. So I was very shocked by it. Also, that's the first and last time I've ever seen Montauk mentioned, outside of the Internet. So it seems weird that I saw it two days after first reading Icke.

At the time I felt that these events confirmed that Icke was right. But now I wonder if 4D STS may have been trying to manipulate my thinking. Since I had just discovered Icke days before, these events may have been meant to increase my devotion to Icke's ideas. Or it could have all been coincidence and fantasy thinking. But it just felt so weird and surreal while it was happening. Any thoughts?

 

[shijing]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Just a quick aside, here is the most recent preview of Icke's weekly newsletter:

[T]HE STORY OF THE EARTH ...... IN REVERSE

The whole global political and economic system is run by dark-suits trapped in left-brain reality. This is why we live in a left-brain society and the right-brain perspective is ridiculed or condemned as 'crazy'. The human invaders in Avatar personify this left-brain domination.

They had no appreciation or understanding of the interconnected harmony and mutual respect between the Na'vi, animals, trees and plants. It was just mumbo-jumbo to them. The humans lived in the 'real world' of physical 'apartness' with the philosophy of see-want-take. In this case, take the unobtainium.

If that means destroying the home and way of life of people who happen to live on the resource deposits that you want to make your fortune, then so be it. What does it matter? They are just primitive savages and we are only destroying a forest.

Who cares? Send the boys in.

The left-brain mentality has no empathy with the consequences for others of its actions, because empathy comes from making a connection to other expressions of life, be they people, trees, plants or animals, and putting yourself in their situation.

Left-brain prisoners can't do this when they are decoding everything as 'individual' with only 'space' in between. The right-brain knows that there is no 'space in between' - only a single energetic field that connects us all.

It is this sense of, and literal, connection between all apparently 'individual' form that gives us a sense of empathy, the fail-safe system that prevents extreme behaviour and actions that cause suffering for others.

I find it interesting that he assigns the blame for what we consider to be psychopathy on the left hemisphere of the brain. Rather simplistic -- maybe he provides a solution to this in the full newsletter (which I don't get anymore)....

 

[Argonaut]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Just a quick aside, here is the most recent preview of Icke's weekly newsletter:

[T]HE STORY OF THE EARTH ...... IN REVERSE

The whole global political and economic system is run by dark-suits trapped in left-brain reality. This is why we live in a left-brain society and the right-brain perspective is ridiculed or condemned as 'crazy'. The human invaders in Avatar personify this left-brain domination.

They had no appreciation or understanding of the interconnected harmony and mutual respect between the Na'vi, animals, trees and plants. It was just mumbo-jumbo to them. The humans lived in the 'real world' of physical 'apartness' with the philosophy of see-want-take. In this case, take the unobtainium.

If that means destroying the home and way of life of people who happen to live on the resource deposits that you want to make your fortune, then so be it. What does it matter? They are just primitive savages and we are only destroying a forest.

Who cares? Send the boys in.

The left-brain mentality has no empathy with the consequences for others of its actions, because empathy comes from making a connection to other expressions of life, be they people, trees, plants or animals, and putting yourself in their situation.

Left-brain prisoners can't do this when they are decoding everything as 'individual' with only 'space' in between. The right-brain knows that there is no 'space in between' - only a single energetic field that connects us all.

It is this sense of, and literal, connection between all apparently 'individual' form that gives us a sense of empathy, the fail-safe system that prevents extreme behaviour and actions that cause suffering for others.

I find it interesting that he assigns the blame for what we consider to be psychopathy on the left hemisphere of the brain. Rather simplistic -- maybe he provides a solution to this in the full newsletter (which I don't get anymore)....

Using the "left brain, right brain" idea to explain lack of empathy is pretty crazy, even for Icke. As E pointed out, his explanation of the "reptilian brain" is just as ridiculous. It's like he's unable to grasp the most basic concepts.

I don't get the full newsletter anymore either. I have a friend who I know was getting it at one time; if he still is, maybe I can ask him to forward this one to me.

 

[vinny]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Using the "left brain, right brain" idea to explain lack of empathy is pretty crazy, even for Icke. As E pointed out, his explanation of the "reptilian brain" is just as ridiculous. It's like he's unable to grasp the most basic concepts.

I think it's quite significant that Icke is suddenly talking about psychopathy, in veiled and misleading terms.
It sounds as though Icke, or his puppet masters, have latched on to the 'psychopathy' subject, as word is now successfully spreading about it, and is attempting some kind of damage control via muddying the waters. "by their fruits you will know them". Even if he's unaware of the rubbish he's spouting, it says a lot about the direction he's taking.

 

[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

I find it interesting that he assigns the blame for what we consider to be psychopathy on the left hemisphere of the brain.

It's like he's unable to grasp the most basic concepts.

Argonaut, do you really think, after all that has surfaced thus far, that it's a matter of Icke not grasping?

 

[anart]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

It's like he's unable to grasp the most basic concepts.

Argonaut, do you really think, after all that has surfaced thus far, that it's a matter of Icke not grasping?

Good question...

 

[Argonaut]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Using the "left brain, right brain" idea to explain lack of empathy is pretty crazy, even for Icke. As E pointed out, his explanation of the "reptilian brain" is just as ridiculous. It's like he's unable to grasp the most basic concepts.

I think it's quite significant that Icke is suddenly talking about psychopathy, in veiled and misleading terms.
It sounds as though Icke, or his puppet masters, have latched on to the 'psychopathy' subject, as word is now successfully spreading about it, and is attempting some kind of damage control via muddying the waters. "by their fruits you will know them". Even if he's unaware of the rubbish he's spouting, it says a lot about the direction he's taking.

Definitely. His shift from New Ager to conspiracy guru seems to be part of this, too.

I find it interesting that he assigns the blame for what we consider to be psychopathy on the left hemisphere of the brain.

It's like he's unable to grasp the most basic concepts.

Argonaut, do you really think, after all that has surfaced thus far, that it's a matter of Icke not grasping?

Maybe I'm too hung up on the high strangeness, and all the channellers and psychics he's been involved with. To me, these signify that he's being manipulated by 4D STS, that he's not under his own control. But he could be lying about all of that. His autobiography might be a work of fiction. I know we've run across such things before, such as Vinnie Bridges's so-called "history."

I noticed a strong feeling of wanting to defend myself against your comment. I felt like it was an angry "attack." Then when anart agreed I felt like I was being ganged up on. This alerted me to what was happening. I'm strongly attached to the idea that Icke is a "puppet" of 4D STS. That's the theory I personally favor, and it's become a sacred cow. I'm having such a problem seeing him as an outright liar and deceiver, because I feel like it's "harsh" to accuse him of lying when we don't know for sure. So many programs running in me regarding this.

I need to take a few steps back, here. Reading Icke's autobiography has changed some of my views of him, making me almost feel sorry for him. But I'm taking his word for everything, assuming that events in his life unfolded just as he said. So I read about all these hyperdimensional influences and coincidences, and it seems that he's just being manipulated like a puppet. I wonder, "why would he make all this up when it blatantly discredits him?" But it only discredits him from one perspective. Most readers wouldn't see it that way. So yes, he could just be a plain, ordinary liar.

 

[durabone]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

The three of you have had the effect of placing me in a very good mood.
My gratefulness is eternal. I am going to go away for a while and coalesce,
but I'll be back, all willing. Much love - p

 

[Argonaut]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

The three of you have had the effect of placing me in a very good mood.
My gratefulness is eternal. I am going to go away for a while and coalesce,
but I'll be back, all willing. Much love - p

If you're going away because you're worried about your posting, continuing to post and get feedback would be much more helpful for you, osit. Feedback from the group can also help with any coalescing you want to do in general. If you still want to go that's your choice, and I wish you well. See you when/if you return. :)

 

[Guardian]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

They have all joined hands now, him, Alex Jones, Project Camelot etc. etc. the whole cabal.

Well, look at the bright side ...it's a lot easier to clean a pool when all the scum floats to the top and clumps together :P

 

[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

I guess...