About David Icke & James Redfield

[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

The Biggest Secret

The Book That Will Change The World

Bibliography

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[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

The Robots' Rebellion

The Story Of The Spiritual Renaissance

Bibliography

Allan, Derek & Delair, when the Earth Nearly Died - Compelling Evidence of World Catastrophe, 10,500BC: Gateway Books, Bath.
Blumrich, Joseph F, The Space Ships ofEzekiel: Corgi, London 1974. Bowen, Russell S, The Immaculate Deception: dist. by American West, Boulder, CO.
Bramley, William, Gods of Eden: Avon Books, New York. Cooper, Bill, Behold a Pale Horse: Light Technology Publishing, P0 Box 1495, Sedona, AZ 86336
Dauncey, Guy, After the Crash - Emergence of the Rainbow Economy: Green Print, London, 1988.
Findlay, Arthur, The Curse of lgnorance (2 vols): Arthur Findlay College, Stansted Hall, Stansted Mountfichet, Essex.
Good, Timothy, Above Top Secret - Worldwide UFO Cover-up: Grafton, London, 1989. Alien Liason: Sidgwick &Jackson, London 1991. UFO Reports, 1990, 1991: Sidgwick & Jackson, London.
Hassnain, Fida, A Search for the Historical Jesus - From Apocryphal, Buddhist, Islamic & Sanskrit Sources: Gateway Books, Bath; & Atrium Publishers Group, Lower Lake, CA, 1994.
Keith, Jim, Casebook on Alternative Three: P0 Box 20593, Sun Valley, NV 1433
Nexus Magazine: Provides hard-to-get information on the transformative changes in society. Available by subscription from: (a) PO Box 30, Mapleton, Qld 4560, Australia. b) PO Box 177, Kempton, IL 60946-0177, USA.
Rosa, Peter Da, The Vicars of Christ - The Dark Side of the Papacy: Bantam Press, London, 1988
Schlemmer, Phyllis (ed), The Only Planet of Choice - Essential Briefings from Deep Space: Gateway Books, Bath; & Atrium Publishers Group, Lower Lake, CA, 1993.
Tarpley, Webster Griffin & Chaitkin, Anton, George Bush - the Unauthorised Biography: Executive Intelligence Review, PO Box 17390, Washington DC.

USEFUL CONTACTS:

The American Academy of Dissident Sciences, 10970 Ashton Ave, #310, Los
Angeles, CA 90024.

 

[Argonaut]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

That he handled it terribly initially, is not in dispute. But he was an ‘infant’ in this arena. Again, if he was convinced that it is so, how does one impart the knowledge in a ‘good way’?

If we take the concentric circles of FOTCM as an example, and the outer ring is for “slowly slowly catchy monkey etc”, I don’t know, there is firstly the possibility of people perceiving it as dishonesty and betrayal upon learning about it further along the line, and secondly without that piece the rest doesn’t make any sense. Kind of like teaching someone math, but withholding a couple of numeric values essential for the calculation.

I’m using my personal journey as a reference here, since it first became plausible to me when the hyperdimensional aspect entered the equation.

This is an important issue. Icke has gone about things wrong, maybe because he doesn't know how else to do it. But how should it be done? External consideration would have us change the approach depending on who we're talking to. We could easily have a situation where the public material is very general, but we could add more info when speaking with an individual directly - depending on how open they appear to be. You used the analogy of teaching someone math. Now imagine trying to teach everyone in the world math at the same time. How would you start? What would you teach and what would you leave out, and why? Would you start with the highest level math that you personally understand, or would you begin at a lower level in order to reach more people? That's the type of situation we're facing. An oranization going out to the general public is very different from what has been done here so far. There will be people who have never heard of esoteric concepts, or who just aren't able to SEE certain things. Because they'll be coming into it from "square one."

As for things not making sense without the hyperdimensional aspect, I think that's true for those of us who are aware. But for others it might not be the case. For some it might just be confusing or ovewhelming to hit them with everything up front. I understand that you're trying to view it from your own perspective, saying how you felt when you encountered this stuff for the first time. But that's the issue here - every perspective is different. Some are extremely different. FOTCM isn't just trying to reach people who would be drawn to the Cass material. It's trying to reach as many people as possible.

But that said, I don't think anyone intends to leave out the hyperdimensional aspect entirely. It's described right in the Statement of Principles, after all. Plus since FOTCM IS a religion, this sort of idea would be expected anyway. We're talking about minimizing info about the Lizzies specifically, and even then only in regards to the public at large. The Lizzies are directly refered to in section 2.5 (On Cosmic Conflict) of the SoP; it just doesn't go into a deep discussion of them. So anyone who reads it will get a basic idea of "evil in higher densities." The thought here is not to leave anything out per se, just to approach the public with consideration. A few days ago, Laura removed the C's material from the Éiriú Eolas page. She removed it at the request of a forum member, who said she wanted to send a link to people who may be bothered by it. This is the sort of External Considering that we're talking about.

It’s a little hard to take stock of your audience with books. You have no idea where they land, and people of all levels and abilities scattered all over the world, read it. Cater for the ‘faint of heart’, and you lose the ones who can digest it. Cater for the ones who can digest it, and you loose the faint of heart. In advertising, when target markets come into the equation, we always say “try to please everyone, and you please no-one. Cater for the 5-10% that you know you can appeal to.” Maybe Icke figured he’s just going to call a spade a spade and let the chips fall where they may…

This is true, but books can be a different issue. look at Laura's books. They reveal some pretty incredible information, yet she's not a figure of ridicule like Icke is. Her books have a much smaller audience than Icke's because she hasn't turned herself into a public celebrity. Laura's books are mainly read by those who have the capacity to digest them. This is how it normally works with books of this nature - the target audience are the ones who naturally pick them up and read them, while everyone else shows no interest. But Icke's books are read - or at least known - by the general public. The result is that those who don't "get it" have a field day with him. If Icke had taken time to grow and develop before going public, things could have turned out completely different for him. Going public right away might have also made him a target for disinformation artists, who saw a threat and vectored his work away from what it could've been. Knowledge Protects, and Icke entered very dangerous waters with almost none. So it would be surprising if he DIDN'T become an unwitting tool of the PTB.

I understand where you are coming from, and I’m not in total disagreement with your approach necessarily. Simple, it certainly isn’t, but be careful not to lose the ones who will only bite when given this essential piece of the puzzle.

And if we apply External Consideration properly and with care, we won't lose such people. It's why something like this takes a lot of thought.

Btw, thank you for posting all of that bibliography information. It will be a great help.

 

[Argonaut]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

For example, I initially recalled reading that with one of his books, he made a big display of sending copies to everyone in the political scene; congressmen and senators in the US and politicians in Europe, including religious houses; one wonders why? I do not recall verbatim exactly his though process on this point, something about enlightening those in power, however, this seems just so strange, like another forum post alluded to saying about DI, being a disservice to the objectives of truth; damaging. By his actions, he seems to have placed himself in the front of the line with others, even critically thinking others, taking a back seat in his self-proclaimed truth bus. By his doing, his book or books, may now attires the shelves of the politico, within their own small library section that is purposely pointed out every time someone/comment comes their way that does not mesh with their political ideology; “oh, like that Icke nut-case guy”, they might point to and say?

This is interesting. It could just be Icke getting overzealous, but the end effect may be just like you say - to get Icke's name in the mind of all these major world figures, so they'll always associate any conspiracy-type ideas with him.

I want to jump in the discussion and address this one point really quickly -- my understanding about the infamous 'Wogan show' is that it has been the premier incident used to slander Icke, and that much of the information is anecdotal and has been taken out of context. This is actually one unfortunate thing about the article that Laura posted recently, because the information about Icke in that article is only partially accurate and related with a sizable bias. In the case of the 'son of god' comment, it was actually taken out of context and used to make Icke appear as though he did have a messianic complex (or at least a more serious one than he actually has):

Thanks for posting this; References to Icke's "son of god" comment have always bugged me, because I was sure he didn't mean it like it sounded. It's important to stay balanced here, as E has been pointing out. We can't blindly trust the words of someone maligning Icke just because we have issues with him.

I myself was confused about why Icke was seen so poorly when I first ran across the Cass forum, because at first I could only see the similarities. I understand the differences better now, but I think that the more clear the information is here on the forum the better, as I think it is very difficult to see past those similarities at first. I therefore think this whole dialogue is a really good idea so that we can really nail down exactly what is going on with Icke and how his information, views, and strategies contrast with those advocated here.

I was in the same boat, big time... As anyone can see if they read my initial thread (one of the three that was merged together here). I agree that this dialogue is very productive, and I also agree that we need to keep our heads straight. We should stop saying that something about Icke is "clear" or "obvious" until we know it's actually so (I'm chiding myself on this one, too, believe me).

 

[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

To say he operates alone is difficult to fathom, although possible?

This is something that jumps out at me as well; writing all those books, conducting all those public talks all over the world, doing all his research for his books, updating the website on a daily basis with all the latest relevant info, interviewing whistle blowers…

No, I think we can fairly accurately assess that he certainly isn’t alone in all of this.

Alderpax, you make valid points as well.

This is true, but books can be a different issue. look at Laura's books. They reveal some pretty incredible information, yet she's not a figure of ridicule like Icke is. Her books have a much smaller audience than Icke's because she hasn't turned herself into a public celebrity.

Bear in mind that Icke was a public figure before all the high strangeness occurred that led to his new journey. Everyone in Britain (and elsewhere, since BBC broadcasts all over the world) knew who he was. He did not turn himself into a celebrity. This was one of the main reasons he became such a target for ridicule, because of his already established public persona and the fact that people could indentify with him. It would have served him better if he was an ‘unknown’, because then the topic would not have been such a hot commodity at the time.

Btw, thank you for posting all of that bibliography information. It will be a great help.

Hundreds! :)

 

[Joe]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Sure, and unless I’m misunderstanding, it’s this very point where Icke’s hypothesis differs from yours. We acknowledge the phenomenon, due to eyewitness accounts, testimonies, historical and mythological evidence (and the Cs), but have yet to encounter fairly reliable proof that they manifest in 3D through certain humans (Icke’s ‘bloodline’). Correct me if I’m wrong.

That he handled it terribly initially, is not in dispute. But he was an ‘infant’ in this arena. Again, if he was convinced that it is so, how does one impart the knowledge in a ‘good way’?

In my opinion, the fact that he names ordinary people like Kris Kristofferson and "Boxcar Willie" as being part of the "lizard bloodline" is evidence that he is being manipulated by his higher "contacts". The fact that he mixes an accurate political message with new age pseudo science is also evidence of the same. That he was an "infant" in this arena yet came out and exposed himself to ridicule by making sweeping grandiose statements is also evidence for the same. A good way for him to have introduced his ideas would have been for him to be aware that he cannot trust anything just because it comes from higher sources (if indeed his contact is any higher source rather than the product of his own mind). He could have been aware that making definite predictions about world events is not a good idea since if they do not come true then you appear foolish and unbelievable.

If we take the concentric circles of FOTCM as an example, and the outer ring is for “slowly slowly catchy monkey etc”, I don’t know, there is firstly the possibility of people perceiving it as dishonesty and betrayal upon learning about it further along the line, and secondly without that piece the rest doesn’t make any sense. Kind of like teaching someone math, but withholding a couple of numeric values essential for the calculation.

I doubt that anyone would it as a betrayal to begin with the introduction to a topic and to later have it revealed to them that there are subsequent chapters. I don't understand what you mean that the introduction doesn't make sense without the later chapters. Most often it does. I don't think what I am saying is like teaching someone math, but withholding a couple of numeric values essential for the calculation. It's like teaching someone to add and subtract and not telling them about alegbra because it would meant nothing to them until they first learn to add and subtract.

I’m using my personal journey as a reference here, since it first became plausible to me when the hyperdimensional aspect entered the equation.

Maybe this is where you are missing the point that I am making. I am not talking about people who already are seeking, or have a seeking instinct, I am talking about the general population who can be very useful to and a part of a global awakening IF they are not put off by the way that the first hints of truth are delivered to them. It is in this respect that I see Icke as an agent, and I tend to think that he is being used by the dark forces who just love to mix truth up with lies.

Indeed. But in revealing the reality of conspiracies, any clued in theorist will take stock of his audience and tailor the message accordingly. Slowly slowly catchy monkey etc.

It’s a little hard to take stock of your audience with books. You have no idea where they land, and people of all levels and abilities scattered all over the world, read it. Cater for the ‘faint of heart’, and you lose the ones who can digest it. Cater for the ones who can digest it, and you loose the faint of heart. In advertising, when target markets come into the equation, we always say “try to please everyone, and you please no-one. Cater for the 5-10% that you know you can appeal to.” Maybe Icke figured he’s just going to call a spade a spade and let the chips fall where they may…

Well here's where I disagree. Icke doesn't call a spade a spade. He mixes some truth with new age lies. Surely you are aware of his thesis on spirituality? That we are all just energy and nothing is real but what we make it? This is the classic new age disinfo of applying higher level truths to this level. It is a serious disservice to people to encourage them to navel gaze in this way. It sets them up to be lunch.

Can we really ignore 4D where 3D ‘conspiracies’ are concerned? “As above, so below.”

To begin with no only can we but we should, IMO, if we are to appeal to the widest audience possible. More esoteric ideas can come later if and when the individual chooses. In fact, I do not think it is certain that we should ever widely disseminate some of the more hard core esoteric ideas. That is not elitist, it is in keeping with the Gurdjieffian idea that I mentioned earlier that sincerity with everyone is madness. It is usually a waste of energy and a drain. There can be no hard and fast rules. Each time that humanity reaches a point like it has reached today, it is essential to be aware of the conditions and odds of the game. Getting the message out to ALL or even a majority of humanity is not necessarily the goal, depending on the specific conditions. If it becomes clear that the "dark shirts" are really in the ascendant and the odds stacked against us, then appropriate strategy must be developed. Otherwise the chance to get the message to even the few that have the ability to "get it" may be lost.

 

[vaio]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Hello, I would like to share a personal experience which is really bizarre when I come to think of it now. Before encountering any 'esoteric' material including the cass site a few years ago, I was at the beginning of my own little truth search. the realm of anything paranormal was outside of my accepted reality. Anyways as I was looking over news sites a thought came to me to visit _www.davidicke.com. the thought just appeared out of nowhere and I just went to the site. I was taken back at the topics he dealt with concerning the upper echelons of power and the introduction of the idea of non-human entities playing within our realm. I was however taken back with his style and and dependency on witnesses which lacked the depth of reasoning. I was turned off by that and just drifted away from the site.

After I came in contact with the cass material I remembered icke and was creeped out by how the address of his website just 'came' to me. his website did serve as a doorway to the cass material and I am thankful for it, but his approach is a total turn off and I believe serves as a good weeding out of those who do not pursue ideas and think for themselves. If they do then they'll graduate to the cass level of reasoning and interpretation including ponerology, sts sto dynamics and networking which gives tangible results (EE breathing etc).

As a final note I think icke's truth train was put on overdrive and derailed and is a word salad compared to what I found here.

 

[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Sure, and unless I’m misunderstanding, it’s this very point where Icke’s hypothesis differs from yours. We acknowledge the phenomenon, due to eyewitness accounts, testimonies, historical and mythological evidence (and the Cs), but have yet to encounter fairly reliable proof that they manifest in 3D through certain humans (Icke’s ‘bloodline’). Correct me if I’m wrong.

That he handled it terribly initially, is not in dispute. But he was an ‘infant’ in this arena. Again, if he was convinced that it is so, how does one impart the knowledge in a ‘good way’?

In my opinion, the fact that he names ordinary people like Kris Kristofferson and "Boxcar Willie" as being part of the "lizard bloodline" is evidence that he is being manipulated by his higher "contacts".

Yeah, this one is a bit of a doozy. I don’t even know if he made these kind of proclamations in that time when he got derailed a little bit, with the turquoise and all – the beginning that is.

The fact that he mixes an accurate political message with new age pseudo science is also evidence of the same.

Okay, I’m not well versed with his ‘new age’ ideas in order to respond here. I have just noticed him talking about the ‘human computer’ and I’m aware of his later books dealing more with personal development, rather than conspiracies. Maybe someone here who is more familiar with that area of his work can shed some light.

Can you be more specific when you refer to “new age pseudo science”? Can you name examples?

That he was an "infant" in this arena yet came out and exposed himself to ridicule by making sweeping grandiose statements is also evidence for the same.

I don’t see how that definitely evidences “manipulation by higher contacts”. It could very well just be the result of someone who is inexperienced and ignorant with these matters.

A good way for him to have introduced his ideas would have been for him to be aware that he cannot trust anything just because it comes from higher sources (if indeed his contact is any higher source rather than the product of his own mind).

This again speaks of inexperience. He makes mistakes, as do we all. We are all learning. I'm not completely discounting what you are saying, I'm just providing alternatives. It's still not water-tight.

He could have been aware that making definite predictions about world events is not a good idea since if they do not come true then you appear foolish and unbelievable.

Okay, now here is where you are muddying the waters, Perceval. Firstly, let’s remember that the predictions fall within his turquoise period. This is what I keep saying. ‘Something’ happened there with him, and if the only dirt we have on him is the stuff he got up to in that period, then we don’t have a lot. He’s not even singing from the 2012 song sheet.

That’s the one thing, with regard to predictions, you leave me a little speechless…

Is the Wave not a prediction?

A: 5 more years! 2 go! 0 new year!

This has always been the part of your work that has worried me. Because as you said “if they do not come true then you appear foolish and unbelievable”. I realise I’m probably treading on thin ice now, but now is as good a time as any to get these issues out of the way. This really worries me. I’m not enjoying this conversation now, I’m worried about the perception if nothing happens. I understand that Laura maybe saw it as her duty to share the information, but it’s still a prediction…and predictions are dangerous things, as David Icke and countless others have demonstrated. I’m just being honest here, you can take your guns out of their holsters now…

Maybe this is where you are missing the point that I am making. I am not talking about people who already are seeking, or have a seeking instinct, I am talking about the general population who can be very useful to and a part of a global awakening IF they are not put off by the way that the first hints of truth are delivered to them.

Understood.

It is in this respect that I see Icke as an agent, and I tend to think that he is being used by the dark forces who just love to mix truth up with lies.

Well it’s those lies we have to identify here.

Surely you are aware of his thesis on spirituality? That we are all just energy and nothing is real but what we make it? This is the classic new age disinfo of applying higher level truths to this level. It is a serious disservice to people to encourage them to navel gaze in this way. It sets them up to be lunch.

No I’m not very familiar with his thesis on spirituality. I will have to read it to contribute here. This thread is a result of the bias I commented on in the article posted. As I said, I’m not that into Icke. I just expect this forum to afford him the same objectivity we afford other matters.

To begin with no only can we but we should, IMO, if we are to appeal to the widest audience possible. More esoteric ideas can come later if and when the individual chooses. In fact, I do not think it is certain that we should ever widely disseminate some of the more hard core esoteric ideas. That is not elitist, it is in keeping with the Gurdjieffian idea that I mentioned earlier that sincerity with everyone is madness. It is usually a waste of energy and a drain. There can be no hard and fast rules. Each time that humanity reaches a point like it has reached today, it is essential to be aware of the conditions and odds of the game. Getting the message out to ALL or even a majority of humanity is not necessarily the goal, depending on the specific conditions. If it becomes clear that the "dark shirts" are really in the ascendant and the odds stacked against us, then appropriate strategy must be developed. Otherwise the chance to get the message to even the few that have the ability to "get it" may be lost.

Indeed! Agreed.

The essential thing, the first thing, is to prepare a nucleus of people capable of responding to the demand which will arise.

If they do then they'll graduate to the cass level of reasoning and interpretation including ponerology, sts sto dynamics and networking which gives tangible results (EE breathing etc).

I have to agree here. The level of conversation on the Icke forum is an insult to anyone’s intelligence. That’s maybe one of the fingers we can point at Icke. Once he hooks people with his talks or books, there’s no net to catch them. People’s questions are not answered, the moderation is more like ‘no moderation’. Boggles my mind. If he truly cared about the individuals, he would have looked at that essential part of his movement or whatever it is that he is doing. He clearly doesn't see the value in networking, which is essential for STO development.

 

[Joe]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Okay, I’m not well versed with his ‘new age’ ideas in order to respond here. I have just noticed him talking about the ‘human computer’ and I’m aware of his later books dealing more with personal development, rather than conspiracies. Maybe someone here who is more familiar with that area of his work can shed some light.

Can you be more specific when you refer to “new age pseudo science”? Can you name examples?

Listen to him this year here, (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5OwB74WxmI

and here (part 2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzQhdSxfz24

That he was an "infant" in this arena yet came out and exposed himself to ridicule by making sweeping grandiose statements is also evidence for the same.

I don’t see how that definitely evidences “manipulation by higher contacts”. It could very well just be the result of someone who is inexperienced and ignorant with these matters.

ok, not definitely, but for me it is 'indicative of'.

This again speaks of inexperience. He makes mistakes, as do we all. We are all learning. I'm not completely discounting what you are saying, I'm just providing alternatives. It's still not water-tight.

Sure, not water-tight, but things seldom are, and so we have to make likely hypotheses.

He could have been aware that making definite predictions about world events is not a good idea since if they do not come true then you appear foolish and unbelievable.

Okay, now here is where you are muddying the waters, Perceval. Firstly, let’s remember that the predictions fall within his turquoise period. This is what I keep saying. ‘Something’ happened there with him, and if the only dirt we have on him is the stuff he got up to in that period, then we don’t have a lot. He’s not even singing from the 2012 song sheet.

That’s the one thing, with regard to predictions, you leave me a little speechless…

Is the Wave not a prediction?

A: 5 more years! 2 go! 0 new year!

His "turquoise period" cannot be discounted just because it was at the beginning. It gave a good idea of the nature of his original contact or experience or whatever it was that he had. Something happened to him then for sure, and I don't like the look of it and I don't see any reason to think that the same thing is not still running the show. It may have evolved a bit to suit the times, but it looks the same to me. Of course, his "turquoise period" is not the only problem. Check out the videos I reference above.

As for predictions. The Cs have a long history of not giving definite predictions. Any they have given have always been with the caveat that it is "open". For example, they have never said that anything was definitely going to happen at a specific time in the future let alone the same year. The Wave is a prediction for sure. But again it is not time specific and it is a concept that draws in many other broad esoteric ideas rather than a single event. That's a far cry from saying this year there will be earthquakes and tidal waves.

This has always been the part of your work that has worried me. Because as you said “if they do not come true then you appear foolish and unbelievable”. I realise I’m probably treading on thin ice now, but now is as good a time as any to get these issues out of the way. This really worries me. I’m not enjoying this conversation now, I’m worried about the perception if nothing happens. I understand that Laura maybe saw it as her duty to share the information, but it’s still a prediction…and predictions are dangerous things, as David Icke and countless others have demonstrated. I’m just being honest here, you can take your guns out of your holsters now…

Don't even carry a gun these days!

I understand your concern, but perhaps one point you are missing is the many examples where the Cs broad predictions DID come true. Does that not count for something? I'm not extolling blind belief. I for one would be able to bear the ridicule if that particular prediction does not come true. There is also the fact that we have been smart in handling the disbursement of our message. For example, you have never seen any QFS member on national television talking about the Cs or the Wave etc. If the Cs predictions don't come true the ridicule for us will be significantly less than that which Icke brought upon himself and the concepts he talks about - which, not-so-coincidentally, we talk about also.

 

[Stuart]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield


He keeps saying that a "force" is guiding him and shows him what he needs to look at, and he doesn't care what it is, he just trusts it. So really there is very little free will on his part or even thinking that maybe what is guiding him may not be what he thinks it is.

He speaks about this "force" a little bit here:

_http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/members/dicke6.htm

(From 0:58 - 1:45 at the beginning)

It is known that he ingests Monoatomic Gold and promotes it on his site - so a big red flag there.

It does seem that the material makes people slightly nutty, just type in "shapeshifting reptilian" into youtube and a whole raft of nutty videos appear - mostly of "shapeshifting" reporters from Fox or CNN Even though these are clearly compression artifacts and you can find the original reports on the official sites without the "shapeshifting" - still people believe. If they're not looking for reppies on the news then they turn their focus on T.V. and movies looking for symbolism of the most mundane kind, such as pyramids etc. It's all a distraction from looking at the real issue of psychopathy or even looking at ourselves and our programs.

Because Icke leaves out important issues such as psychopathy (I suppose his guides didn't think that's important) followers of Icke turn their attention to groups such as the Freemasons and the Illuminati. His explanation for the elite not having empathy or conscience is because of the rituals that they perform and the entities taking over their body. This of course does not explain why people who don't indulge in silly rituals still exhibit the same characteristics of not having any empathy or conscience.

The question arose in one of his videos as to why he hasn't been "taken out", he replied:

If I know that I'm infinite consciousness i'm in control of the lense and i'm in control of the experience so they aint gonna take me out! You know why? Because they bloody can't. They only can if I enter their vibrational perception realm where they can connect with me. If i don't enter their perception realm therefore their vibrational realm they cannot make a vibrational contact with me.[...] if they can't connect with me vibrationally because my point of observation has not been pulled into where their at, then they cannot make a holographic connection, therefore they cannot take me out out of this reality

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPOtrQ4lZZE&feature=related

(from 4:13)

I'm under the impression that they can "take out" whomever they want. Icke seems to spout some vague nonsense along the lines of creating his own reality.

 

[anart]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

As I mentioned in another thread, it amazes me how quickly people can assume 'inexperience', 'being well-meaning', and even 'ignorance' as the reasons for obvious disinformation and the manipulation of the public mind. I suppose, for me, it comes down to one idea. If we here - all normal human beings simply seeking, researching and putting pieces together - can so clearly see certain truths, then why can't people like David Icke?

Is he just less intelligent than we are? No - that's not it.

What is it about the human psyche that 'fills in the blanks' for people who we want to be sincere? It is Critical Correction. It is assuming others do things for the same reasons we might do things - and not for the reasons they do them.

At the end of the day, it will increase ones perspicacity immensely to take off the 'but they're just inexperienced/ignorant/well-meaning/heart in the right place' goggles and See things as the ARE - not as we want them to be.

No pieces of truth discount reams of disinformation!

The harsh reality of the situation is that David Icke has done more to hurt the possibility of widespread understanding of hyperdimensional reality than any other single human being on this planet - and in this reality, such things do not happen by accident!

I see the same tendency in the thread with Icke as I see in the thread on Clif High - and many other threads on many other people who have come up for discussion here.

When we want a person to be sincere because of pieces of truth they espouse, we lose the ability to See the reality of the situation - Critical Correction comes into play and the blanks get filled in with 'he's sincere' , 'he's well-meaning' 'his heart is in the right place', 'he believes what he's saying' - all the while missing the crux that if we can see the problems then why can't they? Are we that amazingly perceptive? No - not really.

Never - ever - underestimate the level of control over information on this planet and the fact that pieces of truth cannot discount reams of disinformation.

The battle for the human mind is fully controlled and relentless and if you really think that Icke isn't serving a very specific purpose (and that he doesn't know that - on one level or another) then you've really - really - got to take those goggles off and realize that any flinching away from the Truth, any partial revealing, any 'almost correct' espousing of information is not only a disservice to humanity, it is by design to keep us in our place - and it works.

 

[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

That he was an "infant" in this arena yet came out and exposed himself to ridicule by making sweeping grandiose statements is also evidence for the same.

I don’t see how that definitely evidences “manipulation by higher contacts”. It could very well just be the result of someone who is inexperienced and ignorant with these matters.

ok, not definitely, but for me it is 'indicative of'.

Yes, look, Icke is certainly, with all these ‘anomalies’ stacked together, in the ‘suspect’ tray for now.

Sure, not water-tight, but things seldom are, and so we have to make likely hypotheses.

No, for sure.

His "turquoise period" cannot be discounted just because it was at the beginning. It gave a good idea of the nature of his original contact or experience or whatever it was that he had. Something happened to him then for sure, and I don't like the look of it and I don't see any reason to think that the same thing is not still running the show. It may have evolved a bit to suit the times, but it looks the same to me.

Another thing that occurred to me while I was typing the post about him being a public figure before this all began, is why him? A media man, a man with a voice, a man the public knows, a man with charisma, a man who thinks on his feet? He already had an open door to mainstream media. He understood how it worked. Mmmmm, perfect for setting up a global ridicule about the 4D lizards concept? Lots to consider here.

The Wave is a prediction for sure. But again it is not time specific and it is a concept that draws in many other broad esoteric ideas rather than a single event.

True, ‘the event’ just always lingers with me. That’s my 3D linear thinking…

Q: (L) You said that when the wave arrives that you will merge with us. Is this the same thing that you are talking about when you say that you are us in the future?

A: No.
Q: (L) So, we are talking about two separate events or subjects, or two separate points in space/time, is that correct?

A: No, You are again slipping into trying to apply third density logic to higher levels of density reality.

Q: (L) So, we are not talking about the same event…

A: What is “future”, anyway?

Q: (L) The future is simultaneous events, just different locales in space/time, just a different focus of consciousness, is that correct?

A: Yea, so if that is true, why try to apply linear thinking here, you see, we are merging with you right now!

Don't even carry a gun these days!

Don’t worry, I’m bullet proof. ;)

The battle for the human mind is fully controlled and relentless and if you really think that Icke isn't serving a very specific purpose (and that he doesn't know that - on one level or another) then you've really - really - got to take those goggles off and realize that any flinching away from the Truth, any partial revealing, any 'almost correct' espousing of information is not only a disservice to humanity, it is by design to keep us in our place - and it works.

I’m with you.

 

[dannybananny]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Bare in mind that Icke was a public figure before all the high strangeness occurred that led to his new journey. Everyone in Britain (and elsewhere, since BBC broadcasts all over the world) knew who he was.

Maybe he was targeted because of that. He often says people why do you think that some normal guy became "crazy"?
People could find that there is some sincerety and truth in his words based on his background, and that is all it takes. Yeah, now I remember when he talked how all that began, that he was a normal person and once he went to newshop(before that he felt presence when he was alone in a room) his feet was paralayzed and strong thought told him to look some books. He found some romantic novel written by psychic, so he went to her. She did some healing on him and they had chat about dimensions. He was laying down on somekind of medical bed and he felt something like spider web on his face and he read in her book that when spirits want to lock in to you you feel this spider web. (But I don't think it was spirit!) she sensed some powerful being that told her to pass to him that he is a choosen one and is going to world stage.

To begin with no only can we but we should, IMO, if we are to appeal to the widest audience possible. More esoteric ideas can come later if and when the individual chooses. In fact, I do not think it is certain that we should ever widely disseminate some of the more hard core esoteric ideas. That is not elitist, it is in keeping with the Gurdjieffian idea that I mentioned earlier that sincerity with everyone is madness

There's one old chinese saying about glass of water(water means knowledge):give a student half of water in the glass, and when he wants more give him another half.

 

[anart]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Don’t worry, I’m bullet proof. ;)

I knew you had super-powers, just had no idea they were so cool! ;)

 

[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Ideas are bullet proof!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSLeuTvRPdI

;)