Acknowledged Lies

[clerck de bonk]

Courage is a kind of salvation.
Plato

Do You have an original thought or are just here to citate others?

 

[Mountain Crown]

Hi Roland JP,

Your cryptic posts using only quotes came after being asked to elaborate on a previous one. They aren't elaborations at all, and give the impression that you were either unable to do it or felt offended that there was a need to be asked to do so.

Either way, it's a matter of self importance (which all of us have to deal with) that feels the need to hide, sometimes in the guise of "subtly" guiding others.

That said, and of course I could be off here, a reply helpful to all could have been merely to express your feelings, whatever they may have been, about being asked to elaborate further.

 

[Buddy]

Bud, for me the detachment doesn't seem to be similar to what you have said above. What I was saying was not particularly correct, I was defending my ego because he always turns the cards towards religion and how my pride was going to kill me and that I should stop having pride if I am to make this life worth.
I was trying to signal to him that that I was doing just that and that it nearly "killed" me. And then we went into details and "traveled roads" going away form the subject and coming back.

I felt detached because I kind of knew what I was standing for - I knew better what was going on inside me and I didn't feel the need to reinforce my opinion as I usually do. However I was fighting for my rights, sort of, because he was pushing the cards, wanting to teach me life.

With all that, I was at the same time attached, at the same time detached or better say relaxed but attacking.

Thanks for the reply, andi. So it seems you are saying that basically the self-importance was in the act of defending the ego. OK.

With me, I don't know if ego was involved or not. I don't remember thinking about 'myself'. I was certainly doing something I ordinarily don't want to do, which is a confrontation which I know will become emotional and possibly escalate. It was like there was no self-referencing at all at that moment - just my perception as witness to the whole scene and the intent to set the record straight to get person number 1 off person number 2's back because # 1's outburst of negative emotion was destructive to # 2's emotional state and was uncalled for.

That part of "me" has very low tolerance for certain kinds of attacks on others and it felt like the Real me.

 

[Roland J. Prather]

Courage is a kind of salvation.
Plato

Was that the "secret" you wanted to share?

This question of a secret should not have been posted. This question was taken too seriously. So I felt someone or something had taken this question to an extreem when my intention was to interact in a friendly way. My approach of a secret, which was "kind of" a secret; as in a playful way of expressing my understanding of having courage to break past some of my beliefs and personal subjectivity and I came to an understanding of courage. That's all. But I didn't realize that this is a very serious forum and not like facebook. I'm not accustom to this forum as I only engaged in conforsations alot less. So in other words I posted "Do you want to know a secret" which I now know I should'nt have, and before I knew it, a snow ball effect went in another direction. And the question was taken too seriuosly I thought. But if some said yes to the question it would have been the same answer "Courage is kind of like salvation"--Plato If this help with clarification

Courage is a kind of salvation.
Plato

Do You have an original thought or are just here to citate others?

Sometimes the clearest explanation for a sudden awarness is a quote. An understanding is a quote sometimes best said by others, simple concise but they hole deep meaning. And felt with integrity when it is not diminished. To come as close and sustain this hyper understanding by not skewing by the use of thoughts. so thats why citated Plato.

Hi Roland JP,

Your cryptic posts using only quotes came after being asked to elaborate on a previous one. They aren't elaborations at all, and give the impression that you were either unable to do it or felt offended that there was a need to be asked to do so.

Either way, it's a matter of self importance (which all of us have to deal with) that feels the need to hide, sometimes in the guise of "subtly" guiding others.

That said, and of course I could be off here, a reply helpful to all could have been merely to express your feelings, whatever they may have been, about being asked to elaborate further.

I understand what you are saying my apologies for causing confusion. My expression of "interest" should have been elaborated further in more detail. The reason i didn't explain in my way was because I wanted to do just that, "concise" explanation direct to the point. But now I know detail explantion is respectful for comments that are not clear to others. I'm in my head and I can't expect people to know what I am thinking. So it will be a practice to explain legibly Thanks

 

[anart]

This question of a secret should not have been posted. This question was taken too seriously. So I felt someone or something had taken this question to an extreem when my intention was to interact in a friendly way. My approach of a secret, which was "kind of" a secret; as in a playful way of expressing my understanding of having courage to break past some of my beliefs and personal subjectivity and I came to an understanding of courage. That's all. But I didn't realize that this is a very serious forum and not like facebook. I'm not accustom to this forum as I only engaged in conforsations alot less. So in other words I posted "Do you want to know a secret" which I now know I should'nt have, and before I knew it, a snow ball effect went in another direction. And the question was taken too seriuosly I thought. But if some said yes to the question it would have been the same answer "Courage is kind of like salvation"--Plato If this help with clarification

The question was not taken too seriously. The question was taken as seriously as every other post on this forum. With well over 200 new posts posted every single day, the readers of this forum use a lot of time and energy to consider each word written here. If you are not interested in taking this forum seriously, please stop posting on this forum. If you are interested in taking this forum seriously, then please understand that further posts of yours with no relevant content will be deleted. Also, when you reply to several posts in a row it would be appreciated if you could condense that reply into one post. I've done it for you by condensing your previous three posts into one post so you can see how it's done.

 

[Roland J. Prather]

Anart: ok Thanks

Your questions overall is serious enough to derive clarity. And I took it too serious: My slef-importance My egotism or ego... Got it, Thanks

 

[andi]

The problem as I see it now is NOT the fact that one reads or listens superficially, the problem is that one does it believing he is doing the right thing, believing he is evolving. If one knows he is superficial, then he can make step by step efforts and change that.
This sound rudimentary, and it has been said even in this thread as well as explained on the forum many times, but in my experience it is one thing to get it intellectually and another to really understand it by living that understanding.
The whole lying business is very much like a spider web - every thing is interconnected.

For example, self importance. If one is to diminish his self importance, one becomes more likely to be able to resist lying to the self, and to be able to start diminishing self importance, one has to understand that personality is not what he really is(not to become identified).
If personality is like a movie and the real "I" is the director, where the actions happening in the movie are not who the director really is, then one is less likely to identify with his personality.

I think, that as humans (with higher centers) we highly need to have our individuality, our uniqueness - something to be our own, something we are - but personality is not it but we identify with it. So we need to find who we really are and stop believing a lie.

I think that if we can really grasp the idea of the lower and higher centers, as thought by G, we would then understand the division between personality and essence.

____

I was thinking about men "lower thoughts and feelings" (emotional center and intellectual) and how they are shaped by today's society. This lower thoughts, witch make the personality, exist in us so we can exist in society today, survive in society, integrate, adapt and have a commune goal -cooperation.
In its mechanics, I see personality as an amazing survival program for adaption and higher biologic evolution.
The problem is that personality is in contradiction with essence. Essence sees the real, and personality lives in the illusion shaped by the society witch personality takes for real because it needs to, because it needs that integration to survive. Personality being of the lower centers, is like an organ that is incompatible with the other organ(essence) - and as a consequence, the body-soul complex is malfunctioning and dieing. Maybe that's why many people have huge health problems even if they do all in their power to prevent - their complex is mall functioning - they believe a lie that is in contradiction with essence. (I heard Laura say something of the sort; I had this question since age 7 or something - why do good people get sick and the bad ones seam to do just fine)

But we need this personality and we need to develop it so we can connect it to the higher ones.
The personality does, thinks, rationalizes - right now it is my personality talking(I think)- it does all that an OP does. Where a soul is different, the higher centers come to aid the personality, witch makes mistakes based on strong programs or 'I's" - it comes to aid in the form of a "calling", "ambition", a strong need to do something, etc, so as to put the personality back on track towards its development towards higher centers.
G said that our real 'I' surfaces only rarely in man. So it could be that the personality is what gets us there and not who we are - but just a tool.


I really hope I'm not too of chart. Am I going somewhere with this or am I off?
I wanted to summarize what I have understood and to share.


Edit: I also wrote this because I was fearing my thoughts when I have been shocked into seeing that they were lies AGAIN and that the personality wanted to "kill" me. I was like- who's thought? what for? why should I have them? ...

 

[andi]

This is a little syncronistic for me. Here is a shot video of Jacon Needleman explaining the real "I" :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLO132oKMIw
A few wards that encompass so much.

 

[obyvatel]

I really hope I'm not too of chart. Am I going somewhere with this or am I off?
I wanted to summarize what I have understood and to share.

I think you are on track with your observations. You may want to take a look at one of EJ Gold's works summarized briefly in this thread . He uses the terms "essential self" and "biological apparatus" instead of "essence" and "personality" but is essentially speaking of similar things per my understanding.

 

[andi]

Thanks obyvatel for the link, very interesting indeed. I'll see if I can get to read his book.