L
LIV
Guest
interesting perspective luke ..
luke wilson
The Living Force
LIV said:
Not done.
You know. The reasons why... either inferiority or karma...
If you look at it... the delivery method is different for both. One is outright cruel and most would argue without scientific basis... inferiority, biological, genetical etc... We are talking dark days eugenics science... outmoded, outdated eventhough some academics nowadays still hold the view.
The other is more spiritual.. karma... did wrong long ago, beyond recorded history... and now paying the price...
Delivery method different in either case.
The thing being delivered is the same though...
You deserve it.
Psychological nuclear bomb to the oppressed.
But some would argue... are they oppressed really? Look at them now and compare them now to what they would have been had civilization not been visited upon them. People use this very same argument against economic inequality. Take a poor person now, take a poor person before 'civilization'... is a poor person now the same as a poor person then?
Trickling down is what they call it. Trickle down economics... the better those at the top do, the better those at the bottom do. Well at least compared to their counterparts before civilization and economic advancement was visited upon them.
You've got to understand.. there always will be poor people... but poor now is not the same as poor in 1700.
What am I trying to say?
I don't believe anyone knows what they are talking about when it comes to racial stuff...Just like most people don't know what they are talking about when it comes to the economy.
All what we have is greed and oppressive power plus a whole bunch of theory to justify it all.
Those being oppressed are well.. being oppressed.. why? Why not... someone has to be oppressed. Meaning doesn't have to exist in everything... sometimes things just happen because well... something has to happen.
Miss.K
Dagobah Resident
I don't know how it works, I don't have conscious memories of past lives, but I would imagine that how it works in one life could be applied to how it works in more lives, and how it works in a family could be applied to nations or races.
If we talk about normal people, not psychopaths, I think that often people who are abusive, have been abused, and it takes work on self (learning the lesson) to stop the violence breeds violence circle. Though it also seems that some abused, just understand that abuse is wrong, so they never become abusers.
But people who are being abused, will often continue being abused (like women who keep entering relationships with abusive men) until work on self has been done (learning the lesson) to become someone that don't attract/accept abusers. I read something (don't remember where) about that the way one walks can determine if rapists will assault or not, and there is less chance of getting raped if having self confidence, than if feeling insecure. (not that self confident people can't get raped, just that it's less likely)
But until lessons are learned, it can take many generations in a family to get over one bad thing happening to one person (the sins of the father...), and I read somewhere (on SOTT maybe?) that it's even genetic, so children of traumatized people are more likely to have problems even if they have been brought up from birth by someone not traumatized (I think it was an experiment on mice),
Often being abused also make people feel guilty, which might cause them to punish themselves.
-I talked to a man from Senegal once, who said that the culture there, and as he was brought up. Children were not supposed to look at their parents, but should always look down as a sign of respect (or the parents would hit them), which I thought was really sad, as eye contact, and reading facial expressions I see as essential for children, both for love and for learning, and I wondered if it had always been like that, or if it was a result of guilt from being abused that had become culture...
Dunno, just thinking aloud here, and should probably sleep instead
If we talk about normal people, not psychopaths, I think that often people who are abusive, have been abused, and it takes work on self (learning the lesson) to stop the violence breeds violence circle. Though it also seems that some abused, just understand that abuse is wrong, so they never become abusers.
But people who are being abused, will often continue being abused (like women who keep entering relationships with abusive men) until work on self has been done (learning the lesson) to become someone that don't attract/accept abusers. I read something (don't remember where) about that the way one walks can determine if rapists will assault or not, and there is less chance of getting raped if having self confidence, than if feeling insecure. (not that self confident people can't get raped, just that it's less likely)
But until lessons are learned, it can take many generations in a family to get over one bad thing happening to one person (the sins of the father...), and I read somewhere (on SOTT maybe?) that it's even genetic, so children of traumatized people are more likely to have problems even if they have been brought up from birth by someone not traumatized (I think it was an experiment on mice),
Often being abused also make people feel guilty, which might cause them to punish themselves.
-I talked to a man from Senegal once, who said that the culture there, and as he was brought up. Children were not supposed to look at their parents, but should always look down as a sign of respect (or the parents would hit them), which I thought was really sad, as eye contact, and reading facial expressions I see as essential for children, both for love and for learning, and I wondered if it had always been like that, or if it was a result of guilt from being abused that had become culture...
Dunno, just thinking aloud here, and should probably sleep instead
Interesting questions regarding race, karma and suffering...
At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter who you are and where you are. What really matters is what you do with what you've got ( as in the specific worldly situation you find yourself in) and how fast you can learn your lessons. You will find many enlightened people ( as in aware, educated in a worldly manner and understanding towards others) in all parts of the world. What amazes me is how even such enlightened people still hold very strong biases based on beliefs and upbringing. Within different racial groups , you will find further classification of people. For example you can talk of Africans as a group, but when you come and look at say a specific country in Africa, you will find the society at every level of society you will find many things in all is further broken down to tribes and those tribes to clans! It's almost like there is always a need for hierarchical divisions to establish authority/superiority over others. The finer the distinction, the more vicious the animosity that arises between the groups or so it seems.
The beauty of this forum is that it gives you a chance to overcome your childhood programming, biases and beliefs through networking.
At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter who you are and where you are. What really matters is what you do with what you've got ( as in the specific worldly situation you find yourself in) and how fast you can learn your lessons. You will find many enlightened people ( as in aware, educated in a worldly manner and understanding towards others) in all parts of the world. What amazes me is how even such enlightened people still hold very strong biases based on beliefs and upbringing. Within different racial groups , you will find further classification of people. For example you can talk of Africans as a group, but when you come and look at say a specific country in Africa, you will find the society at every level of society you will find many things in all is further broken down to tribes and those tribes to clans! It's almost like there is always a need for hierarchical divisions to establish authority/superiority over others. The finer the distinction, the more vicious the animosity that arises between the groups or so it seems.
The beauty of this forum is that it gives you a chance to overcome your childhood programming, biases and beliefs through networking.
mrelectric91
Padawan Learner
Interesting thread haven't spent much time on the history section. So I'll just say I am black but born and raised in England, my parents are from sub sahara Africa. My maternal grandfather is mixed race and I have numerous european descent Caucasian relatives on that side of the family.
I'm a novice when it comes to the karma stuff, so I can't speak knowledgeably on that. However from my view of the current plight of African Americans in the USA, I think Luke is right. The problems with being black in Europe are much more subtle and very rarely violent, the main european countries are simply not very violent at all for anyone. However some of the social problems are the same drugs, poverty, very sound pregnancies into house with little to no income.
A lot of my friends and family feel victimised even though they have a place to live, eat three meals a day, have a free education. The truth is racism is very real and you have to make a conscious decision to ignore it and just go about your business in certain places. However the most most humiliating thing and experienced in life so far is to be called the N Word in public as I was crossing the road by a group of guys in a car who stopped to shout it loudly, then sped of. I think once you experience that level of embarrassment you have to make a conscious decision to not let that feeling inform how you conduct your life
I was beaten constantly as a child by my parents and older siblings with belts and shoes, and was taught not to talk back to adults like the example Miss k of the Senegalese family. Unfortunately this is completely normal. I think it is pent up rage and powerlessness being unleashed under the guise of love. My two older sisters now beat their children and the cycle continues. Th
I think slavery and the plight of Africa at the moment relative to the rest of the world has created simultaneous humiliation and obsession with the social hierarchy, which combined causes a lot of the crime, social breakdown and sense of entitlement. I know Black people who wish they were not black. I have female cousins who bleach their skins, the lack of comfort with black people with for others and with themselves kind of becomes the subtext everywhere you go which gets exhausting. I think great education plus celebration of African figures who did something great beyond overcoming social injustice(only to be killed by their so called own people), that has neither really ever been solved or understood is the only logical step.
I'm speaking subjectively of course, so this is just a perspective.
I'm a novice when it comes to the karma stuff, so I can't speak knowledgeably on that. However from my view of the current plight of African Americans in the USA, I think Luke is right. The problems with being black in Europe are much more subtle and very rarely violent, the main european countries are simply not very violent at all for anyone. However some of the social problems are the same drugs, poverty, very sound pregnancies into house with little to no income.
A lot of my friends and family feel victimised even though they have a place to live, eat three meals a day, have a free education. The truth is racism is very real and you have to make a conscious decision to ignore it and just go about your business in certain places. However the most most humiliating thing and experienced in life so far is to be called the N Word in public as I was crossing the road by a group of guys in a car who stopped to shout it loudly, then sped of. I think once you experience that level of embarrassment you have to make a conscious decision to not let that feeling inform how you conduct your life
I was beaten constantly as a child by my parents and older siblings with belts and shoes, and was taught not to talk back to adults like the example Miss k of the Senegalese family. Unfortunately this is completely normal. I think it is pent up rage and powerlessness being unleashed under the guise of love. My two older sisters now beat their children and the cycle continues. Th
I think slavery and the plight of Africa at the moment relative to the rest of the world has created simultaneous humiliation and obsession with the social hierarchy, which combined causes a lot of the crime, social breakdown and sense of entitlement. I know Black people who wish they were not black. I have female cousins who bleach their skins, the lack of comfort with black people with for others and with themselves kind of becomes the subtext everywhere you go which gets exhausting. I think great education plus celebration of African figures who did something great beyond overcoming social injustice(only to be killed by their so called own people), that has neither really ever been solved or understood is the only logical step.
I'm speaking subjectively of course, so this is just a perspective.
Miss.K
Dagobah Resident
mrelectric91 said:
I can imagine it is exhausting to be black in racist places. Being a white woman I personally have only experienced sexism. And it wasn't really until I was older I realized how much that influences one without one knowing it. I realized that part of the reason that I had not advanced quicker in my work, was that partly, bosses are always males and they recognize themselves in young males and so support them more, and partly that I almost had no females that had walked that path before, to let me know by having existed that it is possible for a female. (the rest of reasons is probably just my own fault)
I further realized that through history, often when females have done something great, it is being pushed under the carpet, and either not recorded, or if they have written something great, they have taken a male name to be able to get it published. Or that simply those examples are is not being taught in schools and universities.
I read that Einstein did that famous, what was it..relativity theory or something, with his wife, and after divorcing her, not doing anything as good as that, which can lead one to think that it might have been her that was the genius, but we never hear about that.
I personally think that black people are generally more beautiful than white people, and usually walk a lot better, specially those from Africa, and have even wondered if racism comes from whites unconsciously being jealous that they are not as well made..
I'm sorry to hear you were beaten like that as a child, I think you are right about that it
+ that one does as one is taught to do, unless a lot of work on unprogramming one self has been done.
Kinyash said:
There are some people that have very little chance to do anything but suffer, and it seems very unfair. (thus the karma question)
I think that it is interesting to figure out things about races and gender. The problem is that pathological individuals have always tried to prove things like men are more intelligent than women, or that whites are more intelligent than blacks, for the purpose of justifying unjust things. So if one tries to figure out the difference of men and women (they are different in many other ways than physically) it sounds to many as sexism, and one might even be afraid to think about it, and will rather think there are no differences, because they are scared that it is sexist to think so.
Genes seem to matter. I personally don't know much about it. I don't believe that any race or gender is superior, but I think there are differences that go beyond upbringing, at least with gender, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is also the case with races. I don't think souls have gender or race (people who claim to remember past lives have not always been the same gender or race)
But there might be as many differences on the inside as on the outside, when it comes to gender and race (there are also a lot of things that are the same on both inside and outside of gender and race)
luke wilson
The Living Force
Amazing post mrelectric. I like the views expressed and have never actually thought of some of the stuff the way you put it!
There was this guy at work who asked me a rather interesting question... He's one of those sorts who is trying to see things so you know, they like to engage, especially with those who may appear disenfranchised.
Anyways, he goes like, 'so you know, white people like to get tans, in fact it's seen as a really positive thing and you never hear white people admonishing each other when they notice one of their own with a tan'
Here I am nodding my head... Expecting a thunderbolt to come next...
'So why is it black people don't like it when other black people bleach their skin'
Like a samurai ninja, noticed the trap, immediately deployed evasive manoeuvres and said,
'Dont know, quite strange and duly noted'.
No particular reason for the story... The only openly racial thing aimed my way recently so its all I got.
There was this guy at work who asked me a rather interesting question... He's one of those sorts who is trying to see things so you know, they like to engage, especially with those who may appear disenfranchised.
Anyways, he goes like, 'so you know, white people like to get tans, in fact it's seen as a really positive thing and you never hear white people admonishing each other when they notice one of their own with a tan'
Here I am nodding my head... Expecting a thunderbolt to come next...
'So why is it black people don't like it when other black people bleach their skin'
Like a samurai ninja, noticed the trap, immediately deployed evasive manoeuvres and said,
'Dont know, quite strange and duly noted'.
No particular reason for the story... The only openly racial thing aimed my way recently so its all I got.
1peacelover
Jedi Master
mrelectric91 said:
Karma is still being played out and will continue to as long as people are being kept in mental enslavement. As a person in the Caribbean of mixed ancestry with brown skin, and red-brown hair, our society has been formed to continue the divisions among people, even within the same family. Many were indoctrinated to marry "up" because if your children came out a lighter shade, life would be easier. A system of self-hate continues to be perpetrated based on skin color. My blue-black colored Granny showed favoritism towards our lighter skinned cousins & she found greater favor with the males in the family while destroying the self-confidence of darker skinned granddaughters. i believe this was one of the reasons our Mother raised us away from this type of mindset. My brothers & I have a totally different outlook than those raised under the tutelage of our Grandmother. Danish society took their color schemes to the point where your curfew depended on the shade of your skin color. The lighter you were the later you were allowed to stay out.
People of different faiths were restricted by law from socializing even among family members. My Granny was born in 1913 and hated herself because of the way she was made to feel about her dark skin which has affected her own descendants in a negative manner. She was born into the Catholic faith, but at a young age desired to know how to read and eventually converted to the faith of the Moravians.
Fortunately for my brothers & I, our Mother was a Pan-Africanist as well as a champion of the "Back to Africa Movement which we were exposed to & part of by her very nature. She always told us and showed us we were beautiful everyday which strengthened us for the world at large. We were empowered to love who we are as well as our origins on the African continent. She researched her own family ties to Ghana, before the diaspora.
We did not know of racism or hate until we moved from our Caribbean home to Morgantown, W.Va., when we experienced the full-blown ignorance of people of a different persuasion. It was the 1st time I heard the N-word. Our Mother told us it was used by ignorant people who use fear to intimidate. I was 8 y.o. & had no clue what any of it meant until being enrolled in the public school system where I was one of three minorities amongst a school population of 1500. I have lived and visited various parts of the U.S. and have met loving people of all colors as well as haters & I have learned to not allow one's intolerance to affect my well-being.
As a female & a person of African descent, it always appears that "the pain of existing" applies to both topics. I have also realized that the system is to create "winners & losers" continuously in one form or another. What better way than to pass it from generation to generation.
Just one of many examples of an indoctrinated thinking that still persists today.
130 years ago: carving up Africa in Berlin
Representatives of 13 European states, the United States of America and the Ottoman Empire converged on Berlin at the invitation of German Chancellor Otto von Bismarck to divide up Africa among themselves "in accordance with international law." Africans were not invited to the meeting.
The Berlin Conference led to a period of heightened colonial activity by the European powers. With the exception of Ethiopia and Liberia, all the states that make up present day Africa were parceled out among the colonial powers within a few years after the meeting. Lines of longitude and latitude, rivers and mountain ranges were pressed into service as borders separating the colonies. Or one simply placed a ruler on the map and drew a straight line. Many historians, such as Olyaemi Akinwumi from Nasarawa State University in Nigeria, see the conference as the crucible for future inner African conflicts.
http://www.dw.de/130-years-ago-carving-up-africa-in-berlin/a-18278894
Or
Sott's article on Cecil Rhodes @ http://www.sott.net/article/242841-Africa-Kony-2012-The-Legacy-of-Cecil-Rhodes-Anglo-American-Empire
Miss.K
Dagobah Resident
1peacelover said:
Wow I didn't even know that the Virgin Islands were Danish colony until 1917, it was never taught in school. (shows how shameful deeds are swept under the rug, and pretended never to have happened in the education system)
There was very few black people in Denmark when I grew up there. In my school there was a few Turkish kids, but apart from them everyone was ethnic Danish. I didn't meet any black people until I was a teenager, and had a black friend that had been adopted.
The first time I saw someone with blue-black skin walk by, I was young, and traveling somewhere in Europe, and had to restrain myself not to look too much to not be impolite, as I thought he was soo beautiful, and said to myself to remember to incarnate as such, so I could try to look so cool. -I guess I didn't realize the prize one has to pay to look so good, as apart from some of the most stupid kids in school that blamed the Turkish kids for a lice infection at school (turned out that the Turkish kids weren't among those that were infected) I had only witnessed racism in films and documentaries, and naively thought racists were a dying species..
I wish I could let the self hating skin bleaching black people feel for a moment how they look through my light blue eyes..
1peacelover
Jedi Master
Miss.K said:
Miss.K.......... "A people without the knowledge of their past history, origin and culture is like a tree without roots." Marcus Garvey
What better way to keep minds & bodies in mental slavery on a global scale. Thankfully you were not raised in hate or judge others based on skin color. That is one of the main reasons I do not use a paintbrush perspective when interacting with other people. It is always either a learning/teaching opportunity for me & it has resulted in meeting wonderful people of various ethnicity(s) and cultures and people who were totally the opposite. Our Mother was an international person & she loved people, but she also had to fight through the discrimination, segregation & Jim Crow laws in order to get her education in the U.S. That meant learning to navigate the "system" with her life intact.
Miss.K, you maybe surprised to know that the Danish government did not give up the Danish West Indies easily. They were forced to do so because they were broke and had no navy that could challenge the growing U.S. military & economic might. The Danes were also quite concerned with the way the U.S. treated its own "colored" population. In the end the Danes could not compete, however we still drive on the left hand side of the road. Many of our island subdivisions, streets and roads have Danish names. The native population were subjects & not citizens so most of the Danes had the option of leaving & returning to Denmark while many of their "colored" family members stayed the Danish West Indies/Virgin Islands of the United States. This website may gave you some more information on the Danish West Indies, http://www.virgin-islands-history.dk/eng/vi_hist.asp There are many other books & information that can add to your knowledge base.
Miss.K
Dagobah Resident
True, though I actually don't really consider myself Danish so much, but more as "Homo sapien from planet earth" (haven't been in Denmark for 2,5 years) But of cause I'm influenced by the culture I grew up in, so thank you for the info below , and I'll check it out :)1peacelover said:
1peacelover said:
L
LIV
Guest
wow i love u guys! and this forum... :) great perspectives!
Almariel
A Disturbance in the Force
Am I the only one here who considers this answer outrageous, racist and an ignorant oversimplification of history? :
I'm very sorry, but that is the way I feel after reading the answers of such 'entity'. Karma? What a cheap excuse for centuries of slavery, colonialism, imperialism and many causes that are purely manmade. Furthermore, "primitive mindset" is quite an offensive term.
Besides, karma -according to eastern beliefs- functions in an individual level, not a social one.
Is this a justification that black people is inferior? That black people deserve to suffer because some millenia ago they had a super-empire that was extremely cruel? Ok. What about white people? Why aren't they suffering, then? Oh... there weren't other extremely cruel empires in history, right?
I'm not looking to "fight", but to confront ideas, in a polite but honest way.
Looking forward the answers.
I'm very sorry, but that is the way I feel after reading the answers of such 'entity'. Karma? What a cheap excuse for centuries of slavery, colonialism, imperialism and many causes that are purely manmade. Furthermore, "primitive mindset" is quite an offensive term.
Besides, karma -according to eastern beliefs- functions in an individual level, not a social one.
Is this a justification that black people is inferior? That black people deserve to suffer because some millenia ago they had a super-empire that was extremely cruel? Ok. What about white people? Why aren't they suffering, then? Oh... there weren't other extremely cruel empires in history, right?
I'm not looking to "fight", but to confront ideas, in a polite but honest way.
Looking forward the answers.
L
LIV
Guest
i dont think the response was racists.. i think it was simple and to the point without including bias.. its seems that the right questions have to be asked .. and in that session they asked questions that did not require a lengthy explanation.. i do wonder why they never ask more questions about african americans .. they seem to focus on their own racial backgrounds..but i do feel more questions should be asked especially since black people were one of the first protypes of human vehicles on earth created by the lizzies .. knowing that could explain a lot about the circumstance happening today in america with that group of people .. and their role in the future
